Solstice/Jones Act question: Alaska to Hawaii

[alwayshappytocruise]

Hi guys, looking for some input here because as many times as we have spoken to Celebrity travel planners we end up with the same result....insanity I guess!!!

 

Anyway, we are leaving on Solstice 2 September 2016 for an Alaska cruise that stops in Victoria for 4 hours on the 8th of September and final embarkation is Vancouver. We are booked on the same ship, same cabin to take the next leg to Hawaii and assumed (I know what that means but when we booked it we weren't told any of this) this would be a back to back cruise.

 

Per Celebrity, we have to disembark in Victoria, BC on 8 September and make our own way to Vancouver to re-embark the next morning, 9 September. We have been told that this is due to the Jones Act which I'm familiar with but far from an expert!!

 

I don't understand why disembarking in Victoria, BC makes any difference than disembarking in Vancouver, BC then rejoining the ship as a back to back. We have already been given a $250 shipboard credit for in the inconvenience which is greatly appreciated. We have also made travel arrangements to fly from Victoria to Vancouver on 8 September, stay the night at the airport hotel then taxi or car service to the port to re-embark on the Solstice for the Hawaii leg.

 

This seems like a pain in the you-know-what and I just can't wrap my head around it....Victoria and Vancouver are both in BC....the next leg ends up in Honolulu.....Can you guys offer your opinions or previous experiences with this? I would really appreciate it....we will do what we have to do as far as Celebrity goes since this is a 25th anniversary celebration.

 

Thanks in advance, and thanks for reading the entire convoluted story!!

 

Lynda

Edited April 16, 2016 by alwayshappytocruise

[dkjretired]

Hi guys, looking for some input here because as many times as we have spoken to Celebrity travel planners we end up with the same result....insanity I guess!!!

 

Anyway, we are leaving on Solstice 2 September 2016 for an Alaska cruise that stops in Victoria for 4 hours on the 8th of September and final embarkation is Vancouver. We are booked on the same ship, same cabin to take the next leg to Hawaii and assumed (I know what that means but when we booked it we weren't told any of this) this would be a back to back cruise.

 

Per Celebrity, we have to disembark in Victoria, BC on 8 September and make our own way to Vancouver to re-embark the next morning, 9 September. We have been told that this is due to the Jones Act which I'm familiar with but far from an expert!!

 

I don't understand why disembarking in Victoria, BC makes any difference than disembarking in Vancouver, BC then rejoining the ship as a back to back. We have already been given a $250 shipboard credit for in the inconvenience which is greatly appreciated. We have also made travel arrangements to fly from Victoria to Vancouver on 8 September, stay the night at the airport hotel then taxi or car service to the port to re-embark on the Solstice for the Hawaii leg.

 

This seems like a pain in the you-know-what and I just can't wrap my head around it....Victoria and Vancouver are both in BC....the next leg ends up in Honolulu.....Can you guys offer your opinions or previous experiences with this? I would really appreciate it....we will do what we have to do as far as Celebrity goes since this is a 25th anniversary celebration.

 

Thanks in advance, and thanks for reading the entire convoluted story!!

 

Lynda

 

Hi Lynda:

 

Lots of threads on this, first off it is not the Jones act which deals with freight and cargo but the Passenger Vehicle Services Act of 1888. It is a US Federal Law which unfortunately is outmoded but still in effect and the cruise lines must follow it or they will receive severe penalties. Do a search on the Celebrity board and you will see several threads explaining it, basically involves you having to go to a distant foreign port, makes no sense but that is the law.

[BEAV]

Boarding Solstice in Seattle and disembarking in Honolulu without visiting a distant foreign port (distant foreign being the catch word here!) is a violation of the PVSA (Passenger Vessels Service Act). Although Victoria and Vancouver are both foreign ports, neither are classified as distant foreign.

 

In order to satisfy the PVSA and not have to disembark in Victoria, Solstice would have to spend longer than 24 hours in the port of Vancouver, which in this case it doesn't. If you were to switch to a different ship in Vancouver for your second leg, that would also be legal because the PVSA applies to voyages on a single vessel.

 

So by disembarking in Victoria, you in effect "break" the B2B and are no longer bound by the PVSA because it applies only to voyages between two different U.S. ports (Seattle and Honolulu in this case). Disembarking the first leg in Victoria, you will not be viewed by U.S. Customs/Border Protection as sailing between Seattle and Honolulu.

 

Yes, it's a huge pain, but at least they caught it a few months before you sail. In our case, we were only given 10 days notice the B2B we had booked (San Francisco-Vancouver, Vancouver-Seattle) was illegal under the PVSA.

Edited April 16, 2016 by BEAV

[chengkp75]

Boarding Solstice in Seattle and disembarking in Honolulu without visiting a distant foreign port (distant foreign being the catch word here!) is a violation of the PVSA (Passenger Vessels Service Act). Although Victoria and Vancouver are both foreign ports, neither are classified as distant foreign.

 

In order to satisfy the PVSA and not have to disembark in Victoria, Solstice would have to spend longer than 24 hours in the port of Vancouver, which in this case it doesn't. If you were to switch to a different ship in Vancouver for your second leg, that would also be legal because the PVSA applies to voyages on a single vessel.

 

So by disembarking in Victoria, you in effect "break" the B2B and are no longer bound by the PVSA because it applies only to voyages between two different U.S. ports (Seattle and Honolulu in this case).

 

Everything you say is correct, except the part about the ship staying over 24 hours in Vancouver. Regardless of how long the ship is in port in Vancouver, you are booked on one ship from Seattle to Honolulu, so this would be a violation of the PVSA even if the ship spent 4 days in Vancouver. The only way this would be legal is if you totally disembarked from the ship one day and then re-embarked the next day.

[martincath]

It's actually very simple Linda, you're just misusing the terminology. You would NOT be disembarking in Vancouver if you join together these two cruises - Vancouver would be merely a port stop for you like any other on your one cruise that goes from Seattle to Hawaii. Getting off and getting straight back on the same ship again is NOT disembarkation by the legal meaning of the term - you would thus embark in one US port and disembark in another US port which is unlawful (PVSA, not Jones Act though).

 

The fact that some folks disembark in Vancouver is meaningless for you, as you are staying on the same ship all the way - legally you only disembark when you and your stuff get off AND STAY OFF the ship, i.e. if it went on a one-day cruise to nowhere and came back to Vancouver you'd be good to reboard and the two legs would be separate.

 

Celebrity have offered you the ONLY legal way to do both, with minimal inconvenience - all other ports on the Alaskan cruise are US, so you cannot get off at any of them. By leaving the ship in one port, and joining it again elsewhere the next day you are doing two separate cruises, both legal (US to Canada, then Canada to US).

 

The good news is that you actually HAVE this option - a lot of folks end up having to cancel one leg in such circumstances, whereas you just need to take a short trip that thousands of people make daily. You can fly, take a ferry (packaged with a coach from city to city, or your own rental car, or even public transit) so the hassle is about as minimal as it can be under this situation.

[alwayshappytocruise]

Thanks for the speedy responses. Is this an issue of our trip being on the same ship and because Victoria is the first port not in the USA? I still don't get why we can't get off in Vancouver and get back on......I must have a right brain/left brain dysfunction.....:rolleyes:

[BEAV]

Everything you say is correct, except the part about the ship staying over 24 hours in Vancouver. Regardless of how long the ship is in port in Vancouver, you are booked on one ship from Seattle to Honolulu, so this would be a violation of the PVSA even if the ship spent 4 days in Vancouver. The only way this would be legal is if you totally disembarked from the ship one day and then re-embarked the next day.

 

Thanks for the correction -- good to know. Back in 2002 when we ran into this situation ourselves, we were told the only way to make it legal was to spend 24 hours in Vancouver between sailings. But that no doubt meant formally disembarking, going to a hotel, and then boarding again the following day.

[BEAV]

Is this an issue of our trip being on the same ship and because Victoria is the first port not in the USA?

 

No, that has nothing at all to do with it!

[alwayshappytocruise]

No, that has nothing at all to do with it!

 

I think I got it.....it's because essentially we're going from Seattle to Honolulu on the same vessel......am I finally getting it?!!! I still think it's ridiculous and a frickin' inconvenience to say the least! Oh well, it's all good in the end isn't it?!!! If this is the most I have to worry about then I am one lucky woman!!

 

Cheers to you all,

Lynda :p

[BEAV]

I think I got it.....it's because essentially we're going from Seattle to Honolulu on the same vessel......am I finally getting it?!!! I still think it's ridiculous and a frickin' inconvenience to say the least! Oh well, it's all good in the end isn't it?!!! If this is the most I have to worry about then I am one lucky woman!!

 

Cheers to you all,

Lynda :p

 

Bingo! ;)

 

If Celebrity would do like Princess and HAL does, and do one night cruises between Seattle and Vancouver, your situation would be a lot easier. For example, if Solstice first sailed a one-night cruise from Seattle to Vancouver, and the last Alaska voyage was round trip Vancouver (instead of Seattle to Vancouver), then you could board the Alaska segment in Vancouver (instead of Seattle), see Alaska and remain on board for the Vancouver-Honolulu segment without any interruption.

[alwayshappytocruise]

Bingo! ;)

 

If Celebrity would do like Princess and HAL does, and do one night cruises between Seattle and Vancouver, your situation would be a lot easier. For example, if Solstice first sailed a one-night cruise from Seattle to Vancouver, and the last Alaska voyage was round trip Vancouver (instead of Seattle to Vancouver), then you could board the Alaska segment in Vancouver (instead of Seattle), see Alaska and remain on board for the Vancouver-Honolulu segment without any interruption.

 

Thanks......what a pain!!! Oh well, as I said before.....it will be a great trip regardless of the inconvenience. It will be another adventure!!!

 

Lynda

[Cruising Is Bliss]

Thanks for the speedy responses. Is this an issue of our trip being on the same ship and because Victoria is the first port not in the USA? I still don't get why we can't get off in Vancouver and get back on......I must have a right brain/left brain dysfunction.....:rolleyes:

 

You can't stay on the same ship and come back at any time the same cruise. An hour off, two days off for a land trip, any return to that cruise won't work. it's still the same cruise.

 

You could leave with everyone else on the last day and board a different ship going to Hawaii the same day and that's fine because it's two totally different cruises.

 

To do this combination on the same ship, you have to pay your final bill, leave and take all your belongings with you, and spend at least one night off the ship. You can't return for any of that cruise, it has to be completely over for you.

 

In this case, the next day is the first day of a new cruise. You can go back aboard that same ship on day one of the different cruise only because you ended the prior cruise and spent at least one night on shore.

Edited April 16, 2016 by Cruising Is Bliss