Haven getting too expensive?

[Zabetty]

Try the MSC yacht Club, better and much cheaper. Lots of people moving over.

 

 

NCL offers no incentive to stay. The Latitudes rewards are a joke. An extra 3 k to get a le Bistro dinner is not worth it. And the box of chocolate. Looking forward to a new adventure in the Yacht Club

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums mobile app

[Freespir8]

FInally have checked out MSC. Can do the Yacht Club for half of the Haven.

HALF!!!!! Was looking at an Escape cruise, we are now booking MSC . Looks amazing and the savings are incredible.

 

The Yacht Club looks a bit nicer than the Haven ( but pictures can be deceiving)

 

Royal Caribbean has nothing to compare to this.

 

One last NCL and then I am switching. I dont feel like playing the waiting for possible upsell game when I can book a suite NOW for next year at half of what NCL wants.

 

Thank you, CC folks! We never even looked into this before as we travelled with kids/now teens all the time. We can get two suites for the price of one in the Haven. Boo-yah!!

 

Thank you, Annie Townsend and others!!!!

 

My pleasure! So happy for you. Come back and tell us how you like it. :)

[NLH Arizona]

 

 

My gut tells me, NCL is weeding out the majority of cruisers on purpose through pricing and saving the Haven for those that are able and willing to pay for it. And then if the regular people are lucky, doing us a favor and letting us in when there is room at a "bargain."

 

But isn't that what all companies do? They come out with their highest prices initially and then if things don't sell, they put them on sale.

[Sissaaaaaa]

FInally have checked out MSC. Can do the Yacht Club for half of the Haven.

HALF!!!!! Was looking at an Escape cruise, we are now booking MSC . Looks amazing and the savings are incredible.

 

The Yacht Club looks a bit nicer than the Haven ( but pictures can be deceiving)

 

Royal Caribbean has nothing to compare to this.

 

One last NCL and then I am switching. I dont feel like playing the waiting for possible upsell game when I can book a suite NOW for next year at half of what NCL wants.

 

Thank you, CC folks! We never even looked into this before as we travelled with kids/now teens all the time. We can get two suites for the price of one in the Haven. Boo-yah!!

 

Thank you, Annie Townsend and others!!!!

 

The Yacht Club looks MUCH nicer than the Haven!

[Ktuluorion]

But isn't that what all companies do? They come out with their highest prices initially and then if things don't sell, they put them on sale.

 

 

My point is though that if a ship has 20 suites and you book 7 at an average price of $7k (49k) then upsell people into the other 13 for $750pp+their initial charge, let's say 1250) you get another 26k out of it, plus let's say 1k each to resell their old room.

 

so 49k + 39k = 88k.

 

Now instead, they could sell all of those rooms for an average of 5k or so (penthouses being 3.5k, and it goes up from there) and make 100k.

 

It seems like demand is clearly going down (the market is outpriced). I'd imagine we'll see the prices go down to an equilibrium where they don't have to upsell/offer discounts.

 

At least i'm hoping that this will be the scenario.

[NLH Arizona]

My point is though that if a ship has 20 suites and you book 7 at an average price of $7k (49k) then upsell people into the other 13 for $750pp+their initial charge, let's say 1250) you get another 26k out of it, plus let's say 1k each to resell their old room.

 

so 49k + 39k = 88k.

 

Now instead, they could sell all of those rooms for an average of 5k or so (penthouses being 3.5k, and it goes up from there) and make 100k.

 

It seems like demand is clearly going down (the market is outpriced). I'd imagine we'll see the prices go down to an equilibrium where they don't have to upsell/offer discounts.

 

At least i'm hoping that this will be the scenario.

 

 

And if they sell all 20 at $49K ($980K), it is a whole lot better than discounting them upfront and only making $100K, especially when they don't know how many of them will sell at full price. If it were my business, I'd keep the initial price until a week before the cruise and then offer them as an upsell, which would be beneficial to me twofold. One, it would make some of my loyal guests very, very happy and two, the suites would't sail empty and would be bring in some $'s to the pot.

[Ktuluorion]

And if they sell all 20 at $49K ($980K), it is a whole lot better than discounting them upfront and only making $100K, especially when they don't know how many of them will sell at full price. If it were my business, I'd keep the initial price until a week before the cruise and then offer them as an upsell, which would be beneficial to me twofold. One, it would make some of my loyal guests very, very happy and two, the suites would't sail empty and would be bring in some $'s to the pot.

 

Well, they would sell exactly 0 at 49k apiece.

 

There's an optimal spot on the demand curve where you will get the most revenue, and that's not necessarily at a higher price point. It's clear that they aren't selling quite a few of these, because I can go on NCL.com right now and book open suites for sailings next week.

 

Upsells/discounts are at such a lower price point that it's more effective if you price at the highest price where you get 90-100% utilization. Clearly that's not the case because there are plenty of unsold suites and upsell opportunities.

 

In many of the upsell cases people are getting the suites for 25% of their asking value -- that lowers profit considerably.

[MikeBTN]

Well, they would sell exactly 0 at 49k apiece.

 

There's an optimal spot on the demand curve where you will get the most revenue, and that's not necessarily at a higher price point. It's clear that they aren't selling quite a few of these, because I can go on NCL.com right now and book open suites for sailings next week.

 

Upsells/discounts are at such a lower price point that it's more effective if you price at the highest price where you get 90-100% utilization. Clearly that's not the case because there are plenty of unsold suites and upsell opportunities.

 

In many of the upsell cases people are getting the suites for 25% of their asking value -- that lowers profit considerably.

 

The Haven upsell seems to be about 60% of "retail" pricing - some a bit lower, some a bit higher, but overall around that 60% number. 25% of asking value would be cheaper than an Oceanview.

 

Also your math isn't quite right on your example. You're not taking into account what the upsells already paid. So it really looks like this:

 

With Upsells (I'm assuming you meant $1,250 per person with a $750 per person upsell as opposed to $1,250 per cabin)

7 cabins @ retail = 7 * $7,000 = $49,000

13 cabins @ upsell = 13 & ($2500+$1500) = $52,000

13 "resold" cabins = 13 * $2,000 (1k pp) = $26,000

 

Total Revenue = $127,000

 

20 cabins @ "retail" pricing = $100,000.

 

 

So going the upsell route, in this particular example, ends up being better. NCL isn't a dumb company, I have to imagine their accountants/data analysts have decided the upsell method is the best way to maximize revenue/profit.

[Ktuluorion]

The Haven upsell seems to be about 60% of "retail" pricing - some a bit lower, some a bit higher, but overall around that 60% number. 25% of asking value would be cheaper than an Oceanview.

 

Also your math isn't quite right on your example. You're not taking into account what the upsells already paid. So it really looks like this:

 

With Upsells (I'm assuming you meant $1,250 per person with a $750 per person upsell as opposed to $1,250 per cabin)

7 cabins @ retail = 7 * $7,000 = $49,000

13 cabins @ upsell = 13 & ($2500+$1500) = $52,000

13 "resold" cabins = 13 * $2,000 (1k pp) = $26,000

 

Total Revenue = $127,000

 

20 cabins @ "retail" pricing = $100,000.

 

 

So going the upsell route, in this particular example, ends up being better. NCL isn't a dumb company, I have to imagine their accountants/data analysts have decided the upsell method is the best way to maximize revenue/profit.

 

This still isn't quite right.

 

It would be

"High price scenario"

7 cabins @ 7k X 2 pax = 98k

13 cabins upsell = 13 x 2*(1.25k (average fare for mini-suite) + $750 (average haven upsell) =52k

 

Resold cabins don't factor because in the other scenario those same cabins would be sold also, so it would be a wash)

 

"Reasonable Price Scenario"

20 suite @ 5k * 2 pax = 200k

 

So 150k with "upsell" strategy, vs 200k with "Reasonable" strategy. Even if you alter the assumptions, it makes it hard to make as much revenue if you aren't filling the capacity at the higher prices.

[luv2cruisecats]

We booked a GTY Balcony for a 7 day leaving 4/30 (cost about $2K total for the 2 of us with the "big two" perks [bev and dining] included). 14 days prior to departure called upsell line and told $1K each for Haven...too much extra for us so we declined. Heard some got them for $850 each a few days later and then 1 week out all were gone; lesson is if you wait can get for less than $2K per person.

[123firsttimer]

First cruise ever last week

 

We got super lucky $3700 for 2 (child was free) for mid ship balcony got a $175 OBC after a price drop. Upsold for 2 bedroom Haven on the Gem for $400 per person 2 days before sailing (child again free) so $4500 before taxes gratuities etc.

 

Was a great deal but would never sail without being in the Haven and would never pay $9500 rack rate for 2. So doesn't look likely for us to sail again......

Edited May 18, 2016 by 123firsttimer

[MikeBTN]

We booked a GTY Balcony for a 7 day leaving 4/30 (cost about $2K total for the 2 of us with the "big two" perks [bev and dining] included). 14 days prior to departure called upsell line and told $1K each for Haven...too much extra for us so we declined. Heard some got them for $850 each a few days later and then 1 week out all were gone; lesson is if you wait can get for less than $2K per person.

 

We sail in 4 days on Escape. Booked a GTY balcony for 4 of us - $2,700 "all-in", including DSC. Upsold 32 days out to an H6 for an additional $1,700 (they were asking $2k), so $4,200 total. Retail price was $7,500. 56% of retail pricing and cheaper than booking two connecting balconies by quite a bit. I'm very pleased. No way I would pay the $7,500 - we'd do MSC Yacht Club for $5k instead.

[sjbdtz]

This still isn't quite right.

 

It would be

"High price scenario"

7 cabins @ 7k X 2 pax = 98k

13 cabins upsell = 13 x 2*(1.25k (average fare for mini-suite) + $750 (average haven upsell) =52k

 

Resold cabins don't factor because in the other scenario those same cabins would be sold also, so it would be a wash)

 

"Reasonable Price Scenario"

20 suite @ 5k * 2 pax = 200k

 

So 150k with "upsell" strategy, vs 200k with "Reasonable" strategy. Even if you alter the assumptions, it makes it hard to make as much revenue if you aren't filling the capacity at the higher prices.

 

You forgot that they have 13 low-priced cabins that they get to resell. So they've captured your 98k + 52k to move you into the Haven.

 

Now they get to sell your low-end balcony also. At $1k pp, that's another $26k. So the delta is $24k. And for that $24k they're advertising suites to 13 more couples who may return as suite guests, or who may spread the word about the suites.

 

There's no guarantee that they sell 20 cabins at $5k pp. If 3 cabins went empty under the "reasonable" pricing, then they'd be down $30k.

 

 

.

[Ktuluorion]

You forgot that they have 13 low-priced cabins that they get to resell. So they've captured your 98k + 52k to move you into the Haven.

 

Now they get to sell your low-end balcony also. At $1k pp, that's another $26k. So the delta is $24k. And for that $24k they're advertising suites to 13 more couples who may return as suite guests, or who may spread the word about the suites.

 

There's no guarantee that they sell 20 cabins at $5k pp. If 3 cabins went empty under the "reasonable" pricing, then they'd be down $30k.

 

 

.

 

The resold cabins don't get added because they would sell those under both scenarios.

 

You are double dipping by saying that the "upgrades" pay for their cabin, then the upsell fee, then charging for the room again. NCL has sold 2 cabins in both scenarios (a haven room and a balcony). You can't act like there are 3 sales in one scenario and only 2 in the other. The upseller isn't buying 2 rooms, they are buying a haven room for cheaper total cost.

 

You need to look at it as a total cost for their haven room (the original fare plus upsell), and then someone else books the cabin they were in as though it was never booked. That's the same as in the "cheap haven" scenario where someone books the haven flat out and another customer books the balcony.

[takeadip]

I'm shocked to see that even the basic Haven Penthouse is 4-6k on most sailings now. I'm by no means cheap, but it really seems like the premium that they are placing on these suites has drastically outpaced the value that they provide.

 

Is anyone else in the boat where they would book Haven suites if they were a little cheaper? I'm curious if ultimately NCL will adjust the perks or lower the price. It seems like they are not selling out on most cruises, and people are just upselling for much less.

 

I would imagine the cruise line would prefer to sell suites for 3.5k rather than have people book rooms for 1.5k and upsell for $500.

 

Anyone else have thoughts on this?

 

 

The pricing is designed to keep those who Cant...Out...to be blunt. if everyone can do it and afford it then the magic and the luster seem to wear off.

 

Also and this is big...and i cant really elaborate but....everyone who has stayed in a Haven Suite has one HUGE perk awaiting for them in their stateroom that has a note attached with it asking the Haven guests to keep this perk an absolute secret and to not under any circumstance reveal what this perk is to anyone outside of the Haven....and i can tell you...its pretty huge!!! so that is the reason my DW and DS will only sail in the Haven form now on...again....NCL has asked all Haven guests to keep this to themselves..you need to stay in the Haven to find out.... yes.. i realize there will be people here on CC that swear that this is false...and that im lying...but again...its all part of the big reveal when you stay in the Haven..i really shouldnt have brought it up..but i did...so just be ready to be wowed...when my DW entered the suite in our Haven for the first time im so glad i was standing behind her..cause her knees got weak and she fell back into my arms once she saw the surprise...

 

it. is. awesome.

 

Best,

Mark

[Barb Nahoumi]

It's "whatever the traffic will bear." However, our traffic will not bear more than a balcony cabin.

 

Budget Budget Budget.

[Ciref]

The pricing is designed to keep those who Cant...Out...to be blunt. if everyone can do it and afford it then the magic and the luster seem to wear off.

 

Also and this is big...and i cant really elaborate but....everyone who has stayed in a Haven Suite has one HUGE perk awaiting for them in their stateroom that has a note attached with it asking the Haven guests to keep this perk an absolute secret and to not under any circumstance reveal what this perk is to anyone outside of the Haven....and i can tell you...its pretty huge!!! so that is the reason my DW and DS will only sail in the Haven form now on...again....NCL has asked all Haven guests to keep this to themselves..you need to stay in the Haven to find out.... yes.. i realize there will be people here on CC that swear that this is false...and that im lying...but again...its all part of the big reveal when you stay in the Haven..i really shouldnt have brought it up..but i did...so just be ready to be wowed...when my DW entered the suite in our Haven for the first time im so glad i was standing behind her..cause her knees got weak and she fell back into my arms once she saw the surprise...

 

it. is. awesome.

 

Best,

Mark

 

For anyone who believes what Mark says above, I am selling the Brooklyn Bridge. All serious offers entertained.

[abbyar]

No, I have a Chunnel to sell! Come to me!

[Kimberlyr22]

Is it Taylor Swift?? Please say it's Taylor Swift!

[takeadip]

Is it Taylor Swift?? Please say it's Taylor Swift!

 

Good guess...but no. If it was Taylor Swift it would have to be the DOS...cause thats how she rolls...

 

Last cruise in March on BA we got a 2 bedroom family haven villa...for practically nothing...just good timing...

 

On the first night on board we were leaving the suite to go to dinner at the same time or neighbors in the next room were so we happened to open the door at the same time....both wives looked at each other and they almost revealed what the surprise was..but quickly put their hand over their mouths and mumbled "OMG" and i looked at the husband and said "Right?" and he just smiled...it was the kind of smile that was in absolute agreement that this is the life...and the awaiting surprise took our breath away...

 

Best,

mark

[ColinIllinois]

Weird.

[goducs]

The pricing is designed to keep those who Cant...Out...to be blunt. if everyone can do it and afford it then the magic and the luster seem to wear off.

 

Also and this is big...and i cant really elaborate but....everyone who has stayed in a Haven Suite has one HUGE perk awaiting for them in their stateroom that has a note attached with it asking the Haven guests to keep this perk an absolute secret and to not under any circumstance reveal what this perk is to anyone outside of the Haven....and i can tell you...its pretty huge!!! so that is the reason my DW and DS will only sail in the Haven form now on...again....NCL has asked all Haven guests to keep this to themselves..you need to stay in the Haven to find out.... yes.. i realize there will be people here on CC that swear that this is false...and that im lying...but again...its all part of the big reveal when you stay in the Haven..i really shouldnt have brought it up..but i did...so just be ready to be wowed...when my DW entered the suite in our Haven for the first time im so glad i was standing behind her..cause her knees got weak and she fell back into my arms once she saw the surprise...

 

it. is. awesome.

 

Best,

Mark

 

In two weeks I'll find out if you're full of BS. I already think you are.

[Sissaaaaaa]

Weird.

 

Totally.

[kathybelcher2433]

I know! I know! Your butler explains to you exactly where the D.SC. goes putting an end forever your need to debate it endlessly on CC. Bam!

[navybankerteacher]

It's "whatever the traffic will bear." However, our traffic will not bear more than a balcony cabin.

 

Budget Budget Budget.

 

The only way the line will know if their pricing is "too high" is if they are unable to sell out. As long as they sell all haven suites no one can say that the prices are "too high" - all they can claim is that they cannot afford them; which is a wholly different thing --- and a customer who cannot afford the going price for anything is certainly not a competent judge.