Adventure Ocean nightmare on the Mariner

[Ericknow32]

[quote name='Brittgrrl'] "Jordan" DID NOT have "bite marks" on his body, he was witnessed pinching and twisting his own arm which resulted in two very light pea-sized marks. [/QUOTE]Was it the adventure ocean staff that witnessed this. You never said who saw it.
[B][QUOTE]To the person who thought the victim should be removed as well because of the bully's actions...you have issues. I'm guessing you're all to familiar with the "Jordans" of the world.[/QUOTE] [/B]Was that a shot at me. Ouch I'm hurt. I would like to explain my statement. Maybe "Jordan" did physically harass your son. If "Jordan" claims that your son provoked it how are the AO staff supposed to know who's telling the truth. The AO staff doesn't know your son. How are they supposed to know who initiated the altercation. They don't. So to remedy the situation they need to remove all parties. They can't take your word. Just as you pointed out about the other parents, parents think all of their children are innocent.

[Erie Dave]

[SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=black]Because we refused to punish our child by keeping him out of AO, just because some future inmate could not control himself, and his parents wouldn't take responsibility, we were forced to spend the rest of the cruise checking on DS approximately every hour to be sure he hadn’t been attacked again. Because we made our presence known, DS was able to enjoy the cruise with minimal interruption (except by us checking in on him constantly). I wish we could say the same. Our entire cruise was disrupted and dreadful because we spent every waking moment worried about what would happen to our child next at the hands of “[/COLOR][COLOR=black]Jordan[/COLOR][COLOR=black]” and constantly running up to the 12th floor to check on DS. [/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]

My comment was directed to this part of your story. While I think the situation could have been handled differently by AO, you kept your son there for the duration of the cruise. The way I read this, you knowingly kept him in a bad situation, granted not as bad ad sending him to see Michael, but nonetheless, you knew where he was going, and part of it could have been avoided.
Call me names all you want, but I was with you until this last paragraph. At the point you cannot trust where your child is, you should have kept him out. By continuing to send him, you share some of the blame. Call me some more names now if you want, but I didn't do this, you did.

[shungirl]

I have two nephews that are 4 and 2 and they are hell on wheels. They are the meanist, most annoying kids in the world, and my sister in law and mother in law just ignore them and let them demolish the house. They laugh and say how cute they are. It is disgusting. I am a TA, and people bring their kids in and let them destroy our office... my parents would have never let me act like that.

I am a "bookworm", and was SUPER shy until I became a TA. I could hardly speak to anyone. Your son will outgrow it, and finally get to a point where he will stand up for himself... it took me 22 years. Now, I am a bada$$ hahahaha. I dont know how you kept from throwing Jordan overboard. Or his parents. You obviously raised your son right, and he is a good kid. You did the right thing by checking on your son every hour. Keep up the good work!!

[LittleBit]

BrittGrrl -

(a minor detour OT) A good karate class will engage your son and help him learn some self confidence in standing up to bullies. It will NOT teach him to be aggressive, thankfully. I am a 2nd degree Black Belt (tae kwon do) that teaches children 8-18. I have taught bookworms, athletes, ADD/ADHD's, even "Jordan's". A good teacher will be able to draw your child out and into the class, helping him discover the strength he has inside. I would suggest looking for an association that is "no-contact" and mixed age. The first thing we teach hem that the only way to win a fight is to not be drawn into one. The second is how to not put yourself into a position where you might be a target. The third thing they are taught is how to strike effectively. (BTW, I am a major bookworm/computer geek, I am shy, no one would ever think that breaking 4 or 5 inches of wood is a breeze for me, and was often a target for bullies, having been raised in a very nonviolent Christian lifestyle).

(Back OnT) I can understand why your son would want to go back to AO even if there is a dangerous child there. It's a great place to hang out. Why should he have been denied that fun while the bully got to stay? I know my favorite children always prefer to go into the kids programs - it's definatley not "Day Care" or babysitting - it is programs geared for kids, just like there are other programs geared for adults.

"Jordan" may have had medical issues (known or unknown by the parents) and the AO staff may have been told that it would be considered discrimination if they prevented him from being part of the club. (It happens, we had a boy that was destrctive in our class but could not ban him because his parents had a lawyer saying we were discriminating against him because his detructiveness was part of a medical issue). (Not saying it's right, just ssaying that it's a possibility)

[Lilyruben]

Yikes!!

[ElvisandTracey]

The best thing you can do for your kids is teach them how to successfully deal with kids like Jordan-

my son is as diplomatic as he needs to be when the time is right, but if nothing else works, and all else fails and he needs to defend himself, he's also a brown belt!!

[Brittgrrl]

[quote name='Erie Dave'][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=black]. [/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]
The way I read this, you knowingly kept him in a bad situation, granted not as bad ad sending him to see Michael, but nonetheless, you knew where he was going, and part of it could have been avoided. [/quote]
Then you misread. We knew about the first day's incident after the fact, and was told it was handled. The next thing I know, DS was bitten. I was standing at the Voyager's entrance before they even unlocked the door with pictures, demanding in the most courteous way possible (a smile will get you a long way-but there were a few tears). At this point, staffers were gung-ho to get this "Jordan" out of AO and protect DS as well as the other kids. They acted as if they had enough.

When DS was shoved and called the derogatory names, we realized we couldn't depend on anyone but ourselves to watch out for DS on this particular cruise and started making our "appearances".

This happened in under three days, Dave. What exactly would you have had us do???:mad: Shall I be penalized for not having the forsight that this particular child would go as far as he did? Or are you saying I should have flipped out at the first charge or hit? Then you would surely say I overreacted! So it's lose/lose then, right?

[SIZE=3][B][COLOR=Blue]To AmandaNS, ciship, nrdsb4, mirthmaiden, Jazzfman, Travelgrrl, getoutthere, SaylorGirl, JerseyMom, shungirl, and LittleBit:

[COLOR=Green][SIZE=2]Thank you for your mature advice/comments and for taking what I wrote as it was intended-just my personal experience. If there were such a thing as an internet hug, I would give you one! (xoxoxo) Thank you for listening and not attacking! Self defence & confidence builders are in the near future! I actually feel better having gotten this "off my chest" and DS is back to his normal, happy self (currently reading Dave Pilkey). He hasn't commented negatively on AO since we returned home (hurricane kind of preoccupied the conversations), and doesn't seem adverse to choosing a cruise again next year with the exception of the Mariner. We tried to explain that the staff changes, as well as the children, but he said "no thank you" and asked if we could go on "the glass ship" again (Radiance class). So as of this afternoon, we'll just write this one off as lesson learned and continue to enjoy future AO's (until he's too old, then maybe he'll hang out on the balcony with his uncool parents? ;) )

Happy cruising, may they all be back-to-backs!
Bitty (Brittgrrl)



[/SIZE][/COLOR][/COLOR][/B][/SIZE]

[Brittgrrl]

[quote name='ElvisandTracey']The best thing you can do for your kids is teach them how to successfully deal with kids like Jordan-

my son is as diplomatic as he needs to be when the time is right, but if nothing else works, and all else fails and he needs to defend himself, he's also a brown belt!![/quote]

Thank you again, your advice is well taken! :)

[iluvcruzin]

Sorry to hear about your son's bad experience Brittgrrl. I am curious as to why you are using a new ID name for this topic. Were you one of the Tini's?

Bullies - they can be found anywhere unfortunately. However, no one addressed that it's possible that this child may have a disorder like being bi-polar (the self inflicting bite and playing victim was a clue). The staff on RCCL does not like to deal with conflict with children and parents be it in AO or at the pool etc.. I've been on during spring break have talked with them when I've seen kids run amuck. But I've also seen this on other cruiselines (I've been on most major ones) so it could have happened anywhere.

As far as the glasses - contact your travel insurance company as it may be a covered expense.

I understand your pain as a parent of the child vicitim.. but was totally turned off by your comment below -

[quote name='Brittgrrl'][COLOR=black][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]In this day and age of children being raised by daycare workers, it was no surprise to find a horrid child in the midst of all the happy children who love spending time in AO. [/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR][/quote]

This analogy is just plain IGNORANT. I raised 3 intellegent, well adjusted children who are now adults. They went to daycare but I raised them. I've seen many more children over the years who where stay-at-home kids that developed the most pathetic social skills. So don't just assume it's due to "being raised by daycare workers".

[desme]

Brittgrrl I'm very sorry you had such a bad time when you were supposed to be having fun with your family. It surprises me some fo the nast responses you have been getting.
I think you were way too nice to Jordan, I would have deep fried him if he had touched my DD. (double deep fried his parents!)

[imsulin2]

[quote name='iluvcruzin']Sorry to hear about your son's bad experience Brittgrrl. I am curious as to why you are using a new ID name for this topic. Were you one of the Tini's?

Bullies - they can be found anywhere unfortunately. However, no one addressed that it's possible that this child may have a disorder like being bi-polar (the self inflicting bite and playing victim was a clue). The staff on RCCL does not like to deal with conflict with children and parents be it in AO or at the pool etc.. I've been on during spring break have talked with them when I've seen kids run amuck. But I've also seen this on other cruiselines (I've been on most major ones) so it could have happened anywhere.

As far as the glasses - contact your travel insurance company as it may be a covered expense.

I understand your pain as a parent of the child vicitim.. but was totally turned off by your comment below -



This analogy is just plain IGNORANT. I raised 3 intellegent, well adjusted children who are now adults. They went to daycare but I raised them. I've seen many more children over the years who where stay-at-home kids that developed the most pathetic social skills. So don't just assume it's due to "being raised by daycare workers".[/quote]

Good post, iluvcruisin!! My five [B]all[/B] went to Day Care. They had to, because both their Dad and I worked full-time. We were [B]still[/B] the parents, though. They are all now grown and self-supporting adults. They were never angels, "perfect", "Gifted and bright", "unassuming", etc. They [B]did[/B] however, learn at an early age how to fend for themselves and stand up for themselves when Mom and Dad weren't around. I'm not talking about physical fighting, either. (They're all on the small side). I'm talking about learning verbal skills to handle situations like this and how to de-escalate potential "physical" situations. Sounds to me like the OP's DS could use some "assertiveness training". I would never excuse the behavior of the Jordan Bully (God knows I had to deal with many of them during my 20-year career as a school counselor!!), though. Bullies learn very quickly how to "push buttons" and intimidate...and will continue to do so unless intervention occurs. The most successful interventions are those when the "victim" takes a stand. Just my thoughts.

[Brittgrrl]

[quote name='iluvcruzin']. I am curious as to why you are using a new ID name for this topic. Were you one of the Tini's? [/quote]

:confused: What? I didn't change my ID! What's are Tini's?



[quote name='iluvcruzin'] This analogy is just plain IGNORANT. I raised 3 intellegent, well adjusted children who are now adults. They went to daycare but I raised them. I've seen many more children over the years who where stay-at-home kids that developed the most pathetic social skills. So don't just assume it's due to "being raised by daycare workers".[/quote]

You contradict yourself here. You say that YOU raised them. Since my comment was about children who are being raised by strangers, that wouldn't apply to you, so your explanation is not necessary. Secondly, I was not finger pointing at the parents-I am not naive to the situations many single parents are confronted with nowadays.
My point was that in the scenario of a child being raised by strangers from 6am to 8pm day in and day out-that I should not be surprised that there are going to be a few monsters in the crowd. I was more making a point of my naivity-I should have been more aware.

[SIZE=3][B][COLOR=Blue]desme [/COLOR][/B][COLOR=Blue][COLOR=Black]- hindsight is everything! If I could turn back time... ;)[/COLOR][/COLOR][/SIZE]

[Brittgrrl]

Imsulin2, please read my reply to iluvcruzin.

As far as assertiveness training, absolutely not. My DS has a wonderful personality and we love him exactly the way he is! [I]Overcoming shyness[/I] is one thing, but I would never intentional school him to be brash. Why should he have to take on a pushy stance in order to deal with the occasional undisciplined brat? His exposure to these types will be far and few between (his graduating class is expected to be around 15 graduating seniors). He will come into his own as he grows up and he has already shown maturity that many adults do not display (including forgiveness, and being the peacemaker between the bully and yet another child bully was starting with on day two).

I think the other poster's advice was [B]spot on[/B]-karate, boxing, or tae kwon do are in the near future! :D

[balconyonly]

ah yes the ever usual parade of people who cruise on Voyager class ships and so easily vilify families that actually make use of the vessel.

The Voyager class was built with families in mind, that includes kids and lots of them.

AO is NOT a daycare, no more than the casino or disco are daycares for adults.

AO is a exactly what it aims to be, an adventure. Yes an adventure for kids, the under 10's especially love it. The games, the activities, the socialization, all those things that adults do minus the slot machines and gyrating drunk bodies.

My kids would be pissed if they went on a cruise and couldn't spend time in AO. They went to the beach in the day with us, they ate with us, I took them to the pool everymorning ( yes the big pool, the main pool) They rock climbed everyday, they iceskated everyday, minigolf etc. But at 7pm everynight all I heard was AO,AO and if I came to get them at 10 they begged for an hour more.

GET OVER IT Voyager class ships are for families, AO is not a daycare.

Oh and I have some other disappointing news for many of you too

FREEDOM of the SEAS, it's for families too

You go Brittgrr, let em have it and how dare anyone question your parenting skills, they weren't there. Vent away, in part thats what this board is for.

[BonNYTX]

[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=#9932cc]Ericnow32, right on! Nuff said.[/COLOR][/FONT][/B]
[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=#9932cc][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=#9932cc][/COLOR][/FONT][/B]
[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=#9932cc]To the OP: You seem to keep defending your position that you are not using the ship children program as a babysitting service. How you raise your child and what you do on your cruise should be your business and nobody elses. Having said that please don't assume others use the program for a babysitting service when you really don't know what their intentions were.[/COLOR][/FONT][/B]
[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=#9932cc][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=#9932cc][/COLOR][/FONT][/B]
[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=#9932cc]I can quote numerous people I know who have had all day childcare and their children did not turn into monsters. Yet I can tell you about the kids that were "Jordancized" by stay at home moms. Life is a crap shoot and you can't generalize. [/COLOR][/FONT][/B]
[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=#9932cc][/COLOR][/FONT][/B]
[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=#9932cc]One more comment. If you allow your DS to pick his vacation, can you adopt me? I wouldn't be any bother at all. :D Promise! Hope all your future cruises are happy ones.[/COLOR][/FONT][/B]

[tupper]

No matter what you do, there will be someone who always has something negetive to say. I haven't even left for my cruise and had my share of flaming. We actually were chastised by family when we thought of taking our upcoming cruise, which I am escorting 44 people, WITHOUT the kids..."it's not fair to the kids...they deserve a vacation too" on and on. So what is the lesser of the 2 evils...leaving the kids at home, wondering what they missed in Adventure Ocean problem and if they would have had a good time or letting them come along with the possible potential problems they could have every day in school?

[Brittgrrl]

[quote name='BonNYTX'][FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=#9932cc][B]. Having said that please don't assume others use the program for a babysitting service when you really don't know what their intentions were[COLOR=black].[/COLOR][/B][/COLOR][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=black][/quote][/COLOR][/FONT][/FONT]

[COLOR=darkgreen]I am not sure what I said that came across like this, but I apologize for anything that was construed as other's using it as a babysitting service (aside from the one I was venting about). I have been repeatedly defending the fact that AO [B]is not[/B] a babysitting service-but an adventure experience for the kids. [/COLOR]
[COLOR=darkgreen][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#a0522d][COLOR=darkgreen]Keep in mind, I am posting between cooking, cleaning, homework, phone, and anything else today can throw at me. Add post hurricane cleanup to that list! I'll apologize now for any typos![/COLOR];) [/COLOR]

[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=#9932cc] [/COLOR][/FONT][/B]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=#9932cc][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=black][quote name='BonNYTX'][/COLOR][/FONT][B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=#9932cc] [/COLOR][/FONT]One more comment. If you allow your DS to pick his vacation, can you adopt me? I wouldn't be any bother at all. Promise! Hope all your future cruises are happy ones.[/B][/COLOR][/FONT][/quote]

:p [COLOR=darkgreen]In my defence, because I realize how that comes across...our poor DS quietly puts up with mum and dad's "boring" holidays every year where we walk endlessly through historic areas, dragging him through museums and parks. He never complains. So it's only fair, we let him pick the second holiday each year. Lucky for us, he's picked RCCL for five years in a row now![/COLOR]:D

[luckymbt]

Thank you for posting your experience. It really is beneficial to all of us who travel as families and have kids that LOVE AO.
You got alot of responses, and IMO some w/ some added neg. feedback.
I hope you don't let this bother you.
My oldest also loves crusing and partly because of the usually excellent AO experience. So I can understand your son's disappointment w/ not participating and your struggle to let him do what he wants in a safe environment. There is probably nothing RCI can do for you, but your posting does alot to help make the rest of us parents aware and maybe get creative or more aggressive or whatever is necessary when we may run into a similar situation.
I have to add that last Thanksgiving we cruised and were hoping my 3 yr old would love AO as much as her sister.....but number one there where just too many kids for the staff to handle and yes some of them were not the best behaved....in fact my 3 yr old complaiined that the kids were too bad and she didn't want to go to AO. At 3 years of age even she can pick out the bad apples. That was VOS, and I think that an inherent evil of the larger , do more type ships....is the larger mix of folks on board. We will be cruising on the BOS in December and I look forward to the great experience we usually have. Thanks again OP.

[ilionite65]

Sorry, but I'm in with the belief that the OP shares in some of the responsibilities for DS's difficulties! I agree that she showed little concern by returning him to AO if it was that bad, how could you put your child in a situation where there was such a strong possibility of physical abuse? You said you did this because he so enjoys AO, but that can't have been the case here. If I ever thought there was a chance my children would be subjected to such treatment you can bet I wouldn't send them back for more of the same. I would love to hear the other side of this story!

[Merion_Mom]

Brittgrrl: I hate to say it, but given how many positive experiences you have had on other RC ships in AO, and the many favorable stories from other cruisers, it really seems like Mariner has problems. I say this after reading poor Anne (Ducklite)'s experiences in the RS on the Mariner earlier this month.

Usually, parents and their kids have NO problems or complaints with AO. Usually, people who cruise in the RS come back raving and complimenting RC.

Now we hear horror stories about AO and the RS, but ONLY ON MARINER.

Not good.

(Ducklite's experience: from post #87 on - [url]http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=237110&page=4[/url] )

[Brittgrrl]

[quote name='ilionite65']Sorry, but I'm in with the belief that the OP shares in some of the responsibilities for DS's difficulties! I agree that she showed little concern by returning him to AO if it was that bad, how could you put your child in a situation where there was such a strong possibility of physical abuse? You said you did this because he so enjoys AO, but that can't have been the case here. If I ever thought there was a chance my children would be subjected to such treatment you can bet I wouldn't send them back for more of the same. I would love to hear the other side of this story![/quote]

First, I don't know what the attacker's side of the story would have to do with your disagreement of our allowing DS to return after promises of his safety? But feel free to find them and have a nice long chat about how my DS somehow deserved to be charged, attacked, bitten, and picked on by this boy. Strong possibility of abuse??? So you're saying we should have somehow [I]KNOWN[/I] that this bully was going to escalate in such a short time???:confused: Are you psychic? We're not!

Secondly, would you have had me yank DS out after the first strike "Jordan" received?
Would you have still found a reason to be so negative by claiming I then overreacted?
Should I have told the head of AO that I didn't believe her when she promised the safety of my child?
Should this bully have forced us to get off at the next port and flown home, since this [I]was[/I] DS's choice of holiday, chosen solely because of AO?

Your comment is laughable, uninformed, and rude. Our DS is our reason for breathing. I don't remember my life before him, and cannot imagine my life without having had him. He did not want to return to AO until the staff had the opportunity to address the bully's parents-hence his spending a day being miserable sightseeing and shopping with us. The moment the staff [B]assured us[/B] that bully would not touch DS again, DS was thrilled to return and couldn't get back fast enough-so [I][U]yes[/U][/I] it can "be the case here".

Before you spit out such nonsense, think about what you're saying. I want the 3 minutes of my life back that I took to even respond to this.

[ilionite65]

The other side of the story just may reveal that your innocent DS wasn't entirely innocent in this case. Or, are you and DS so perfect that there are not two sides to your stories, only yours?

[Brittgrrl]

[quote name='Merion_Mom']Brittgrrl: I hate to say it, but given how many positive experiences you have had on other RC ships in AO, and the many favorable stories from other cruisers, it really seems like Mariner has problems. I say this after reading poor Anne (Ducklite)'s experiences in the RS on the Mariner earlier this month.

Usually, parents and their kids have NO problems or complaints with AO. Usually, people who cruise in the RS come back raving and complimenting RC.

Now we hear horror stories about AO and the RS, but ONLY ON MARINER.

Not good.

[/quote]

I'll agree with you wholeheartedly! We have always had nothing but [B]praise [/B]for the wonderful experiences at Adventure Ocean! As I mentioned in the tipping section, DS has always had favourites (Peter Rabbit-on 2 of our cruises now!) that we showed our appreciation in monetary gifts at the end of the cruise. And with everything DS has access to (DisneyWorld, Universal Studios, MOSI, beaches, Mote, etc) he still [COLOR=red][B]lives[/B][/COLOR][COLOR=black] for Adventure Ocean all year. His Shrek calendar is filled up with X's where he was counting down until embarkation! [/COLOR]

So don't get me wrong...I haven't lost all faith in AO, especially after hearing that other ships have proven to have strict policies against bullying. I am beginning to think it was just bad luck that we had the Mariner staff that we had last week. And I said it before, I [B]WISH [/B]adults could hang out in AO-they have better activities than adults!:eek:

But I digress, we're content to relax in our room whilst DS has the time of his life (usually).

[Merion_Mom]

Brittgrrl - I think that you need to stop responding to people here. You vented, you stated your experience, and some people will want to know in order to be forewarned, others will attack you. My best advice to you is to let this thread go; it's not worth the increase in blood pressure.

[Ima_HockeyMom]

I think this has been pretty much beat to death....the truth is that the truth lies somewhere in the middle. :) It usually does.

As parents, we generally think our kids are great...that's human nature. But sometimes, (not saying this is one of those times), our little angels aren't as innocent as we think they are. It goes both ways, sometimes our kids are not the 'bad' ones either.

Here's a little story for you. A few months ago, my 9 year old son received an 30gb iPod as a gift from his GrandFather. My son *HAD* to bring it to a hockey bbq. I tried to explain to him that he shouldn't show it off or brag about it and that other kids might be jealous of him having it, etc. I thought it was a better choice to leave it in the car but I gave in and he took it to the party.

Party was actually winding down and I was inside and my son was outside by the trampoline with a bunch of other players. All of a suddent, a mom that I have known for a quite a long time comes running in screaming that I needed to get outside that there was an issue. I ran out there and the Mom told me that my son's ipod somehow ended up getting thrown under the trampoline and that my son was blaming her son (let's call him Billy) for it. She was VERY upset, almost in tears that my son was blaming her son about it. I tried to remain calm and asked her son to explain what happened. She stopped me and yelled at me that she was out here the entire time and that her son did NOT throw the ipod under the trampoline that it must have just fallen. I asked my son what happened and he told me that this other boy (Billy) had threatened earlier to kick it under the trampoline. I asked him if he actually SAW him do it and he said he did not.

Now heres, the thing....at this point, I had to go with the other boy and his Mom. My son is a pretty good kid but I know her son also and he's a great kid also. If my son would have actually witnessed him doing it, that's another thing..but he didn't.

I immediately punished him in front of all his buddies by taking the ipod away for a few weeks and cancelling his plans for that night (another one of his friends was supposed to be spending the night). He was very upset that I didn't believe him but I had no other choice.

So...we ended up leaving a few minutes later and we had already made plans to take another one of the players home...a girl, let's call her Sydney. As we were driving her home, she says "Ms. HockeyMom, I just wanted to let you know that I was out there the entire time and Billy really did threaten to throw the ipod under the trampoline and I saw him throw it under it a few minutes later." Well...I didn't know what to say.

After we dropped her off, my son and I had a VERY long talk about accusing people, etc. Even though (apparently) Billy did in fact throw it under the trampoline, I still punished my son for accusing someone for something they didn't actually witness. I reduced the 'sentence' from 2 weeks to 1 week because after hearing from a 3rd party that the boy was teasing him about the ipod, I can see why he would accuse him of doing it when the thing later ended up on the ground.

I'm not sure where I was going with all this except that I know that in MOST cases, the truth is in the middle somewhere. :)

I'm sorry you had such a terrible experience with AO. We have booked the FOS for next September mostly because my son and daughter saw the new commercial with the surf rider and are soooooo excited. I doubt my son will want to hang out much in AO club though....we'll see. He's more of the type to make a friend right at the beginning and then hang out with them the rest of the cruise.