Automatic Gratuities

[Charles4515]

They are choosing to directly financially reward those who provided the one on one service and are removing any wonder or doubt about what happens when it is turned over electronically to management. It doesn't mean they are giving less. Could they give less? Sure. Could they give the same? Sure. Could they give more? Sure. But it just means they are choosing an option other than what you may choose. And they aren't breaking any rules of the system by doing so either. And that doesn't make you any more or less right than anyone else.

 

Of course they are less right. The option is to adjust the gratuity if service was not satisfactory. Other reasons than that are less right....

[LMaxwell]

while it is automatic, it is not before service is provided. you do not pay your final bill till the morning you leave the cruise and that is when you actually pay the auto tips. service has been provided before you pay which is why you can adjust them during the cruise if necessary before you pay.

 

With My Time Dining, gratuities had to be paid with your final payment before the cruise. This eliminated the possibility of being able to use OBC to offset these costs. I don't know if they could be adjusted or refunded either in that case. This changed only just recently, within the past year (pre-payment not required with MTD)

[Charles4515]

The option is at the guests discretion. There is no qualifier.

 

It is quite clear that the option is for less than satisfactory service. That is a qualifier.

[LMaxwell]

Of course they are less right. The option is to adjust the gratuity if service was not satisfactory. Other reasons than that are less right....

 

Choosing to do the "default" on anything doesn't mean it is the only correct way to do something. Royal allows it. They don't have to. But they have not chosen to change it. I was on MSC and they do not allow any changes to gratuity at all. Royal could do that. But they don't.

[LMaxwell]

It is quite clear that the option is for less than satisfactory service. That is a qualifier.

 

It is an example of where one might exercise discretion. It is not the sole reason. And a smart person would ALWAYS try to rectify a problem first. Saving a few bucks on an expensive vacation pales in comparison to having poor service and frustration for the thousands of dollars already spent. Far better to receive good service that you don't even have to consider exercising one of your options. But, discretion means just that, discretion. At the guests choosing, no qualifier, no reason necessary.

[Donna_In_India]

Because it makes rational sense. If a person removes tips, and then claims to tip well, then what is the point of removing the tips in the first place????? Just tip additionally. Yes, I keep saying the same thing because nothing else makes as much logical sense. I think royal will probably do away with it eventually, and I hope they do.

 

 

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I disagree. There is another option. What if someone wants to give a whole tip - not part auto and part extra cash? That makes much more sense to me. If the auto tip amounts to $5 a day for a waiter (I really don't know what the breakdown is since they group dining) and someone wants to tip a total of $50 or $100 wouldn't it be nicer to get that instead of $15 or $65 (subtracting the $35 on auto)? I personally wouldn't stand in a line for anything let alone removing gratuities but the whole set up stinks the way it currently is.

 

Another reason that they may remove and then tip "well" is because then THEY control who is getting the tip, not RCI.

[Computer Nerd]

You convieniently forget to mention that the option is provided in the event the guest does not recieve satisfactory service. It as not an option to pay cash instead of the auto gratuities or to stiff the crew.

 

i didn't conveniently forget anything. you, on the other hand, conveniently forgot to read the last line of post 220. :rolleyes:

[Computer Nerd]

With My Time Dining, gratuities had to be paid with your final payment before the cruise. This eliminated the possibility of being able to use OBC to offset these costs. I don't know if they could be adjusted or refunded either in that case. This changed only just recently, within the past year (pre-payment not required with MTD)

 

i have never nor ever plan on using mtd. i love set time dining with the same wait stuff who get to know my likes and dislike so i have no idea how things with mtd work.

[Charles4515]

i didn't conveniently forget anything. you, on the other hand, conveniently forgot to read the last line of post 220. :rolleyes:

 

 

 

My reply was to LMaxwell, not you. That should have been clear from the quote.

 

 

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[LMaxwell]

i have never nor ever plan on using mtd. i love set time dining with the same wait stuff who get to know my likes and dislike so i have no idea how things with mtd work.

 

I was just letting you know that for many years there were circumstances on Royal that forced you to prepay gratuities with your cruise fare before the cruise and precluded the use of OBC onboard for gratuities. You may not have known as it wasn't the case with other cruise lines, but Royal has amended that policy recently.

[Charles4515]

It is an example of where one might exercise discretion. It is not the sole reason. And a smart person would ALWAYS try to rectify a problem first. Saving a few bucks on an expensive vacation pales in comparison to having poor service and frustration for the thousands of dollars already spent. Far better to receive good service that you don't even have to consider exercising one of your options. But, discretion means just that, discretion. At the guests choosing, no qualifier, no reason necessary.

 

 

 

I know you can read. Royal clearly says when service is less than satisfactory. It does not give any other reasons. Some choose to misuse the option, and Royal chooses at this time to allow the misuse.

 

 

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[Computer Nerd]

I was just letting you know that for many years there were circumstances on Royal that forced you to prepay gratuities with your cruise fare before the cruise and precluded the use of OBC onboard for gratuities. You may not have known as it wasn't the case with other cruise lines, but Royal has amended that policy recently.

 

i've only cruised rccl 3 times, in 2005, 2008, and 2015. the gratuity policy for set time dining was the same on all 3 cruises. but i appreciate the update.

[LMaxwell]

I know you can read. Royal clearly says when service is less than satisfactory. It does not give any other reasons. Some choose to misuse the option, and Royal chooses at this time to allow the misuse.

 

 

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Yes, I can read quite well. I spend an inordinate amount of time reading contracts and policies, more than I care to in fact. So please show me where less than satisfactory is the ONLY reason. I am very open minded person, and I always go on facts. So show me that it may not be modified for any other reason than what you state.

[Computer Nerd]

Yes, I can read quite well. I spend an inordinate amount of time reading contracts and policies, more than I care to in fact. So please show me where less than satisfactory is the ONLY reason. I am very open minded person, and I always go on facts. So show me that it may not be modified for any other reason than what you state.

 

i will say, it seems you are trying to use a lack of information as confirmation that it is authorized to do so. based on that logic, since the contract nor anything else on board doesn't state peeing on the balcony is prohibited, then it must be allowed. we all know that it's not but that is the angle you are working.

 

note.....i didn't state off of the balcony because there is language that states you may not throw anything off of the balcony. ;)

[LMaxwell]

i will say, it seems you are trying to use a lack of information as confirmation that it is authorized to do so. based on that logic, since the contract nor anything else on board doesn't state peeing on the balcony is prohibited, then it must be allowed. we all know that it's not but that is the angle you are working.

 

note.....i didn't state off of the balcony because there is language that states you may not throw anything off of the balcony. ;)

 

That's what the drain holes are for on the balcony. Sometimes your wife locks the door while she's showering...

[Charles4515]

Choosing to do the "default" on anything doesn't mean it is the only correct way to do something. Royal allows it. They don't have to. But they have not chosen to change it. I was on MSC and they do not allow any changes to gratuity at all. Royal could do that. But they don't.

 

 

MSC no doubt had too many cheapskates. Since the gratuities are unfortunately a substantial part of the crews compensation, Royal would have to follow suit if many were not paying gratuities.

 

 

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[LMaxwell]

MSC no doubt had too many cheapskates. Since the gratuities are unfortunately a substantial part of the crews compensation, Royal would have to follow suit if many were not paying gratuities.

 

 

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I couldn't tell you why MSC has that policy, nor could you. Actually, since the gratuities ARE a substantial part of the crew compensation, Royal is probably not really compelled to do anything about it at all. I wouldn't mind my rates increasing by some modest amount if it abolished this ridiculous system and meant hard working staff were fairly compensated.

[Charles4515]

Yes, I can read quite well. I spend an inordinate amount of time reading contracts and policies, more than I care to in fact. So please show me where less than satisfactory is the ONLY reason. I am very open minded person, and I always go on facts. So show me that it may not be modified for any other reason than what you state.

 

 

 

Please. You are not open minded.

 

 

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[LMaxwell]

Please. You are not open minded.

 

 

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Chaz, tell me what it is like to be a soothsayer :rolleyes:

 

I asked you to show me where you were right or I was wrong and you chose a personal put down instead. Tells me all I need to know. And I happen to know the meaning of the word discretionary, unlike you. You want to have a discussion, you need to be honest. Check your biases and talk about facts if you are capable.

Edited August 24, 2016 by LMaxwell

[Charles4515]

I couldn't tell you why MSC has that policy, nor could you. Actually, since the gratuities ARE a substantial part of the crew compensation, Royal is probably not really compelled to do anything about it at all. I wouldn't mind my rates increasing by some modest amount if it abolished this ridiculous system and meant hard working staff were fairly compensated.

 

 

 

They would be compelled to because Royal guarantees a minimum compensation. The crew gets a base salary plus a share of the pool. If Royal had to make up for that minimum out of revenue because gratuities were not being collected over that minimum they guarantee you can be sure they would stop allowing gratuities to be adjusted.

 

I do agree that it is a system that should be abolished.

 

 

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Edited August 24, 2016 by Charles4515

[LMaxwell]

They would be compelled to because Royal guarantees a minimum compensation. The crew gets a base salary plus a share of the pool. If Royal had to make up for that minimum out of revenue because gratuities were not being collected over that minimum they guarantee you can be sure they would stop allowing gratuities to be adjusted.

 

I do agree that it is a system that should be abolished.

 

 

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Yes, you accurately described how the tip pool works, but I don't think any cruise line really guarantees such a high rate in that pool that they are going to take a hit. All of these lines know how to run things.

[Charles4515]

Yes, you accurately described how the tip pool works, but I don't think any cruise line really guarantees such a high rate in that pool that they are going to take a hit. All of these lines know how to run things.

 

 

 

They know what the average amount is that is going to be collected from the passengers on any sailing. I suspect it has been going down and that may be why they have been increasing the daily amount several times lately. To compensate in that way instead of not allowing gratuities to be adjusted. But increasing the daily amount may cause more passengers to remove the gratuities.

 

 

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[ColoradoGurl]

They are choosing to directly financially reward those who provided the one on one service and are removing any wonder or doubt about what happens when it is turned over electronically to management. It doesn't mean they are giving less. Could they give less? Sure. Could they give the same? Sure. Could they give more? Sure. But it just means they are choosing an option other than what you may choose. And they aren't breaking any rules of the system by doing so either. And that doesn't make you any more or less right than anyone else.

 

 

Yeah. I suppose you could be right, in some cases maybe. I understand why people don't like the obligation or the "pre-payment," and the debate has been discussed to death about whether it's really a tip or a service charge, or whether people are even getting all the money from Royal or not. I personally choose pay the auto-tips because I know they are expected and they are a part of the calculation of revenue for the ship and therefore, wages for staff, and whether I agree with the practice or not, it doesn't matter, because I believe people deserve to get paid and this is how royal chooses to do their accounting.

 

I don't consider the auto tips a negotiable expense and I don't consider reducing them in order to make my cruise more affordable, or to take a stand against the auto-tipping practice; I simply just tip extra to the people whom I come into contact with directly, which is why I can't see why anyone who is tipping "well" would remove the tips (the additional cash tip has nothing to do with the auto tip, nor am I, or probably anyone else who tips extra, deducting the $13/day from our extra tips calculation). I can't imagine a scenario where I would feel good about myself removing the tips and thinking I'm making a stand against royal's business practice, so I just can't fathom why anyone would bother, given they know ahead of time it's part of what they're expected to pay. However you also have a point that Royal could eliminate the ability to remove them, and so far they haven't, so people can and will continue to remove them, but I'm not, and never will be, one of those people.

 

But hey, to each his own. Nobody is changing the world here on either end, but I'm sure those who are leaving the tips on, and/or tipping extra, are making a more positive difference to a few human beings than those who remove them...and then tip in cash (or don't).

 

 

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Edited August 24, 2016 by ColoradoGurl

[Computer Nerd]

That's what the drain holes are for on the balcony. Sometimes your wife locks the door while she's showering...

 

ewwwwww......... :)

[Computer Nerd]

Choosing to do the "default" on anything doesn't mean it is the only correct way to do something. Royal allows it. They don't have to. But they have not chosen to change it. I was on MSC and they do not allow any changes to gratuity at all. Royal could do that. But they don't.

 

does msc make the gratuities mandatory. :confused:

 

ncl has recently changed their policy where the gratuities can still be changed, but not on ship. you must go to gs, get a form, and then send that form in once you return from the cruise and it supposedly takes a month to get the refund.