Oakland Warehouse Fire and Disabled Cruising

[SargassoPirate]

What does the recent Oakland warehouse fire have to do with cruising?

 

Being a retired professional firefighter who has zipped more than one fire victim into a body bag and a safety professional who has performed countless building inspections, I have been following the story and developments on the recent Oakland warehouse fire in which 36 people died. What does that have to do with cruising? It is basic life safety. Fire and life safety rules for cruise ships are codified in what is termed SOLAS, or Safety Of Life At Sea, an industry consensus document that applies cruise ships.

 

The victims in the Oakland warehouse fire died because they could not safely exit the building. (There were a host of other problems, but lack of safe exit travel was the main reason they died) One of the very basic tenets of fire safety is an adequate number of clearly marked exits and clear access to those exits for all occupancies.

 

The next time you are on a cruise, be aware of the locations of the exits and exit accesses. If you see baby carriages, walkers, wheel chairs, and/or scooters being parked in or stored in the hallways, the elevator or stairway lobbies, theater lobbies, or other areas of emergency exit access, report them to guest relations. If that does not remedy the situation, ask to see the hotel director. If that doesn’t get results, send a complaint directly to corporate headquarters.

 

Failure to keep exit passageways and exits clear is a violation of SOLAS and a demonstration that the cruise line does not take passenger safety seriously.

 

How important is fire safety? Ask the families of the 36 victims in Oakland.

 

(Please feel free to post this on other forums as appropriate)

[letscruise1946]

Good to know! Thanks for the information. Didn't know about the hallways you see stuff stored there all the time

 

 

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[Missymo]

Thank you for this most important information for ALL. Happy holidays!!!

 

 

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[GeezerCouple]

What does the recent Oakland warehouse fire have to do with cruising?

 

Being a retired professional firefighter who has zipped more than one fire victim into a body bag and a safety professional who has performed countless building inspections, I have been following the story and developments on the recent Oakland warehouse fire in which 36 people died. What does that have to do with cruising? It is basic life safety. Fire and life safety rules for cruise ships are codified in what is termed SOLAS, or Safety Of Life At Sea, an industry consensus document that applies cruise ships.

 

The victims in the Oakland warehouse fire died because they could not safely exit the building. (There were a host of other problems, but lack of safe exit travel was the main reason they died) One of the very basic tenets of fire safety is an adequate number of clearly marked exits and clear access to those exits for all occupancies.

 

The next time you are on a cruise, be aware of the locations of the exits and exit accesses. If you see baby carriages, walkers, wheel chairs, and/or scooters being parked in or stored in the hallways, the elevator or stairway lobbies, theater lobbies, or other areas of emergency exit access, report them to guest relations. If that does not remedy the situation, ask to see the hotel director. If that doesn’t get results, send a complaint directly to corporate headquarters.

 

Failure to keep exit passageways and exits clear is a violation of SOLAS and a demonstration that the cruise line does not take passenger safety seriously.

 

How important is fire safety? Ask the families of the 36 victims in Oakland.

 

(Please feel free to post this on other forums as appropriate)

 

We were on a premium cruise line relatively recently, and about 3 cabins before ours (between the main egress and our suite, I should add), there was someone who almost always had a folded walker against their hallway wall. Note that there was PLENTY of room in that suite, including a huge walk-in closet.

 

We complained, and were told by several different people, including, finally, OFFICERS, that it was 'okay'. :mad:

Then their folding wheelchair landed in the hallway, too.

 

NEXT time (hopefully this won't happen), we will photo it, with the suite number prominently showing, along with assorted different dates.

 

We were given the unmistakable feeling that we were being viewed as troublemakers, and that was totally inappropriate, too.

 

And yes, next time, we'll get the names of the staff and Officers we spoke with. We were just too ticked off to do that at the time, and didn't think it through.

 

But what to DO with these photos and information?

Our first goal would be to have this fixed while WE are still on the cruise (and thus it affects us directly).

Complaining later to Corporate... too late for that, but hopefully it won't be "really too late"... :(

 

Any other suggestions?

[easyboy]

Thank you for giving emphasis to safety consciousness. Even frequent cruisers does not pay serious attention anymore on muster drill, a regulation under SOLAS.

 

 

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[Essiesmom]

Do these lines have a facebook page? I personally don't do the social media, but I understand you can get the attention of a company by posting on facebook. EM

[GeezerCouple]

GeezerCouple.....I have experienced the same thing. Nowadays I give guest relations one chance, then the hotel director one chance, and the neven the captain one chance. If they blow off my complaint and leave me with the feeling they don't see it as a problem, I raise it to the corporate level while still on-board if the cruise is long enough. I even contacted the US Coast Guard to report a ship one time.

 

One additional thing I do is carry a copy of the appropriate section of SOLAS to hand in with each written complaint. They can't say they didn't know.

 

With one dismissive hotel director who did not see blocking exit corridors as a problem and refused to take any action, I gave him another copy of SOLAS, made a big show of writing down the time, date, and his name on my copy, and told him that if something happened during the remainder of the voyage, he was assuming total and personal responsibility for failure to take corrective action on a known and reported violation of SOLAS.

 

It's all too easy to ignore fire safety violations until the manure hits the fan.

 

Thanks.

 

GREAT suggestions.

 

How do we get copies of the full SOLAS regs?

 

And how does one contact the Coast Guard in a timely fashion? I doubt they are going to commandeer the ship and board to inspect :eek:, so is there in fact any benefit of "real time"?

 

It was infuriating, especially when the wheelchair got added.

We were naive enough (apparently) to have expected a polite and genuine "Thank you" and an inquiry about "which suite?" from the staff, or at *least* Officers!

(We did not initially even remotely think *we* would be treated badly.

And we didn't make a huge fuss - perhaps the problem? - just a polite, "There's a walker [then "and now a wheelchair"] always left in the hallway near our suite...")

AND then for both walker and wheelchair to be gone from the hallway.

(Especially irksome, given the amount of space inside that suite, including the huge walk-in closet, not that lack of space excuses a violation.)

 

Yes, the hallway was "wide enough", but IF those fell over... there would be a lot of tripping and people piling up in an emergency.

... or maybe even during non-emergencies...

 

It also unnerved us a bit about what other safety requirements were "okay" to ignore!

 

Thanks again.

 

"No good deed goes unpunished."

[xxoocruiser]

There are 16 first responders made up of Police and Fire personnel. Having been raises by a father that was 38 years on the Chuicago Police Dept, long before my disability he trained me to be aware of and report any issues that could impede safety in the event of an actual emergency. I do the same as SargassoPirate does and report any and all violations. That doesn't just mean mobility equipment. It also includes but not limited to such things as cleaning carts, vacuums luadery bags, baby trollersm discarded room service items etc as these items also violate SOLAS Regulations.

[GeezerCouple]

GeezerCouple - I googled "Safety of Life At Sea PDF" several years ago and printed off the pages regarding fire safety. I didn't bookmark the site, but it had to do with maritime safety.

 

When I contacted the Coast Guard, I also googled for the Coast Guard, and looked for an office that sounded like it would have something to do with passenger ship safety. I didn't keep the guy's email address since they change assignments all the time. I'd just start with US Coast Guard headquarters in Washington.

 

Hope this helps. We all need to be concerned about the safety of ourselves and other passengers.

 

Um... it's 403 pages...

 

I can't seem to find anything that would be relevant.

Search terms I tried using either didn't yield much, or appeared something like 240 times.

 

Perhaps someone can point me to a page/section, something that we could actually bring a few copies of, and have highlighted with the appropriate key sentences/paragraphs...

 

When you actually did show a copy to someone (staff or Officer), did you notice any blowback in terms of lesser service. "attitude", or anything like that?

 

Thank you again.

 

(I'm getting ticked off at myself now, for not having pursued it. There was no excuse for their not enforcing it.)

[xxoocruiser]

Um... it's 403 pages...

 

I can't seem to find anything that would be relevant.

Search terms I tried using either didn't yield much, or appeared something like 240 times.

 

Perhaps someone can point me to a page/section, something that we could actually bring a few copies of, and have highlighted with the appropriate key sentences/paragraphs...

 

When you actually did show a copy to someone (staff or Officer), did you notice any blowback in terms of lesser service. "attitude", or anything like that?

 

Thank you again.

 

(I'm getting ticked off at myself now, for not having pursued it. There was no excuse for their not enforcing it.)

 

Being that most cruise line's published it's policy regarding mobility equipment on its website you only need to print that and throw their own policyright back at them. I don't waste time speaking to anyone other than the Officer in charge of Ship's security as he/she is the person that is fully knowledgeble regarding the SOLAS Regulations

 

For example

RCCL's and Celebrity state the same:

Assistive devices including mobility scooters must be stored and recharged in your stateroom so fire doors, corridors and elevator lobbies are kept clear for emergency evacuation. When parked throughout the ship, they must be parked out of the way to allow safe and easy access by other guests and crewmembers.

NCL

Motorized wheelchairs and scooters are allowed in our accessible staterooms provided that they are powered by gel-cell batteries and the chargers must be adaptable to 110 volts. Should you choose a stateroom that has not been designated as accessible, you will need to bring a collapsible wheelchair, or if you have a motorized wheelchair or scooter, the width must not exceed 26 inches to enter the stateroom door. All scooters and wheelchairs MUST be stored in the stateroom. Due to the safety and escape way requirements established by SOLAS regulations, they cannot be stored in the hallways, stairways, or any other public area. Beach wheelchairs can be rented for use on Norwegian Cruise Line's private island.

Carnival

Scooters must be stored and batteries recharged in your stateroom. Keep in mind that the scooter minimizes the available space within your stateroom. Due to safety considerations, wheelchairs and scooters cannot be stored in the corridors. Your personal scooter should be able to fit in a standard stateroom with a 22" entry doorway. If your scooter is larger than 21", you must purchase an accessible stateroom or rent a smaller scooter. Segways and other similar vehicles cannot be operated on board our ships. They must be taken off the ship to be used while in port.

[SargassoPirate]

xxoocruiser - good point about using the cruise line's own policy. That should suffice.

 

geezercouple - I'm not at home right now, but when I return I'll see what I can dig up on the SOLAS. I'll let you know.

 

Thanks to all who share this important message. If it saves one life it or prevents one injury from tripping over something stored in a corridor, it will be worth it.

[SargassoPirate]

Um... it's 403 pages...

 

I can't seem to find anything that would be relevant.

Search terms I tried using either didn't yield much, or appeared something like 240 times.

 

Perhaps someone can point me to a page/section, something that we could actually bring a few copies of, and have highlighted with the appropriate key sentences/paragraphs...

 

When you actually did show a copy to someone (staff or Officer), did you notice any blowback in terms of lesser service. "attitude", or anything like that?

 

Thank you again.

 

(I'm getting ticked off at myself now, for not having pursued it. There was no excuse for their not enforcing it.)

 

Found my copy of the relevant section of the SOLAS. What I copied is page 182 of the PDF version that I saved some years ago. The section that I draw their attention to is what is called regulation 13 and reads:

 

Regulation 13

Means of escape

1 Purpose

The purpose of this regulation is to provide means of escape so that persons on board can safely and

swiftly escape to the lifeboat and life raft embarkation deck. For this purpose, the following functional

requirements shall be met:

.1 safe escape routes shall be provided;

.2 escape routes shall be maintained in a safe condition, clear of obstacles; and

.3 additional aids for escape shall be provided as necessary to ensure accessibility, clear marking,

and adequate design for emergency situations

 

And yes, I have noted "blowback" from staff on some cruises after I raised a fuss about their lack of attention to fire safety. Sometimes they can't seem to look me in the eye for the rest of the cruise or they look at their shoes as I pass by, etc. However, I'm used to that reaction from doing building inspections for years and it's their problem not mine.

[GeezerCouple]

Found my copy of the relevant section of the SOLAS. What I copied is page 182 of the PDF version that I saved some years ago. The section that I draw their attention to is what is called regulation 13 and reads:

 

Regulation 13

Means of escape

1 Purpose

The purpose of this regulation is to provide means of escape so that persons on board can safely and

swiftly escape to the lifeboat and life raft embarkation deck. For this purpose, the following functional

requirements shall be met:

.1 safe escape routes shall be provided;

.2 escape routes shall be maintained in a safe condition, clear of obstacles; and

.3 additional aids for escape shall be provided as necessary to ensure accessibility, clear marking,

and adequate design for emergency situations

 

And yes, I have noted "blowback" from staff on some cruises after I raised a fuss about their lack of attention to fire safety. Sometimes they can't seem to look me in the eye for the rest of the cruise or they look at their shoes as I pass by, etc. However, I'm used to that reaction from doing building inspections for years and it's their problem not mine.

 

Thanks.

Alas, the copy I found on the Internet is different, at least with respect to paging and also "regulation" number.

 

"Regulation 13

Stowage of survival craft"

 

Could there be more than one Regulation 13 elsewhere?

 

You are citing a page 182... of how many pages?

Perhaps I can find better approximate location?

 

I need to find the original I copied, as my "copy" is not searchable for text for some reason.

When/if I find that, I'll search for some of your quoted phrases.

 

Thanks again!

[SargassoPirate]

Geezer Couple - Check your email.

[chengkp75]

What you are looking for is:

 

SOLAS Chapter II-2, Regulation 13 "Means of Escape"

 

If you google search "SOLAS Chapter II-2" you will find pdf copies of that chapter of the code.

[SargassoPirate]

what you are looking for is:

 

Solas chapter ii-2, regulation 13 "means of escape"

 

if you google search "solas chapter ii-2" you will find pdf copies of that chapter of the code.

 

thanks!

[GeezerCouple]

Geezer Couple - Check your email.

 

What you are looking for is:

 

SOLAS Chapter II-2, Regulation 13 "Means of Escape"

 

If you google search "SOLAS Chapter II-2" you will find pdf copies of that chapter of the code.

 

Thanks very much to both of you.

 

Although I hope this never happens again, either the obstructions themselves or the, er, obstruction about the rules, we'd like to be prepared just in case.

 

(chengkp75, you are a real treasure here on CC.)