Pacific Coastal + 1 day back to Seattle = PVSA violation?

[Cruise Junky]

I am a HAL supervisor.

 

David

 

Then someone above you needs to be deciding these things as you have no clue as to what's legal. As I said escalate it to legal. Phone reps know nothing

[igraf]

You still don't seem to understand what could happen. The worst case is if some agent agrees to sell you the cruise, or you just book two cruises separately, and then you are refused embarkation while standing on the dock with your suitcases between the two cruises. This definitely can happen and don't think for a moment that they are obligated to let you board.

 

It comparable to flying to a cruise port on departure day. You save the cost of a hotel stay if it works and a disaster if it doesn't work.

 

igraf

 

 

 

 

Thanks Captain Obvious, for telling me that the cruise line has the final say on whether or not they sell a product, kind of like any business deciding whether or not to sell any product. So, if the cruise line has the final say, how can anything I say end up ruining a vacation? Pretty inane post.

 

 

 

No, one customer service agent stated it would not be allowed. As cruise junky says, what I am advocating is escalating this to a supervisor for clarification as to the violation.

[chengkp75]

You still don't seem to understand what could happen. The worst case is if some agent agrees to sell you the cruise, or you just book two cruises separately, and then you are refused embarkation while standing on the dock with your suitcases between the two cruises. This definitely can happen and don't think for a moment that they are obligated to let you board.

 

It comparable to flying to a cruise port on departure day. You save the cost of a hotel stay if it works and a disaster if it doesn't work.

 

igraf

 

So, the only way this would happen is if an agent sold a cruise he/she wasn't able to sell, which would imply that the agent didn't know what they were doing. That's the same thing I'm saying, that the agents the OP contacted don't know what they are talking about, why is that so difficult to believe, when you apparently believe that they could not know how to sell cruises correctly?

 

Anyway, I'm going home today, so I'm done here. What the OP wants to do is completely legal, and has been allowed by HAL and other cruise lines in the past, so if it is important to them, they should escalate it and get the written, legal justification for denial from HAL.

[CaveDiving]

I am sorry to create another PVSA / Jones Act thread, but I am confused after reading some earlier threads on the Princess forum.

 

I am booked on the Eurodam April 24-28 sailing, San Diego to Vancouver. Today, I tried to add on a B2B, staying on the Eurodam for the April 28-29 sailing from Vancouver to Seattle. I received a very quick automated email from HAL (forwarded by TA) that this was in violation of the PVSA.

 

OK, so I did some research here on CC, and saw several references that if you changed ships, there is no violation. I see that the Oosterdam is making that same 1 day sailing on April 28. So, I called HAL to inquire, and was told that even changing ships is a violation of the PVSA.

 

Did I speak with an uninformed HAL agent, or will changing ships still not get around the violation?

 

Yes, the one day add on is illegal. Basically you are attempting from San Diego to Seattle, and that is not allowed without 24 hours in Canada.

David

 

I looked into this in the past and was told that I would need to spend two nights in a hotel between cruises if using the same cruise line (typically on two different ships).

You *might* get away with one night in hotel if using two different cruise lines. Definitely not OK for the same day.

You might be tempted to use two different bookings to do this, but if it is discovered while on the first cruise then the second cruise might get cancelled.

igraf

 

I understand there is a great deal of misunderstanding about the application of the PVSA.

 

Unfortunately, both of the above postings answering the OP, are incorrect. IIRC, there is no given time requirement between making the two desired cruises, i.e. San Diego to Vancouver and then Vancouver to Seattle on a different ship, (with a separate ticket.)

 

In order to verify my opinion, I wrote to the Customs & Border Protection and asked the question. The message I sent was…

 

“Customer By Web Form 01/14/2017 02:35 AM

If I embark on a cruise ship in San Diego and disembark the ship in Vancouver, am I then permitted, on the

same day, to embark on another cruise ship (different boarding pass than the first cruise), and disembark this

second cruise in Seattle, Also, does it make any difference if the second cruise ship happens to belong to the

same Cruise company as the first cruise ship.

Scott Bonis

 

The answer I received was…

 

“From: CBP INFO Center customs@mailfg.custhelp.com

Subject: If I embark on a cruise ship in San Diego and disembark the ship in Vancouver, a... [incident: 170114-000048]

Date: January 17, 2017 at 10:39 AM

To: scott......s@aol.com

Recently you requested personal assistance from our on-line support center.

Discussion Thread

Response Via Email (CBP Officer) 01/17/2017 12:39 PM

Dear Scott,

Those are usually considered separate trips if they are separate cruises that you have to book separately.

Mark

Answer Link: The Jones Act

 

I think the answer here is pretty clear. Yes, you were talking to an uninformed HAL agent, (unfortunately not a rare occurrence.) Contrary to the two postings answering the OP, It appears that by changing ships, your requested itinerary would not be a violation of the PVSA.

 

Scott & Karen

[igraf]

Who do you trust? At the end of the day it is the cruise line that decides if you embark on their ship, and they are all saying "no". That person at the Customs & Border Protection isn't going to be around to help you, and I would have more confidence in their answer if they did not make the newbie mistake of referring to the Jones Act (not the appropriate law).

 

I don't see why anyone would take a chance like this, and I have also heard that those 1-day cruises are something best avoided.

 

igraf

 

 

 

 

 

I understand there is a great deal of misunderstanding about the application of the PVSA.

 

Unfortunately, both of the above postings answering the OP, are incorrect. IIRC, there is no given time requirement between making the two desired cruises, i.e. San Diego to Vancouver and then Vancouver to Seattle on a different ship, (with a separate ticket.)

 

In order to verify my opinion, I wrote to the Customs & Border Protection and asked the question. The message I sent was…

 

“Customer By Web Form 01/14/2017 02:35 AM

If I embark on a cruise ship in San Diego and disembark the ship in Vancouver, am I then permitted, on the

same day, to embark on another cruise ship (different boarding pass than the first cruise), and disembark this

second cruise in Seattle, Also, does it make any difference if the second cruise ship happens to belong to the

same Cruise company as the first cruise ship.

Scott Bonis

 

The answer I received was…

 

“From: CBP INFO Center customs@mailfg.custhelp.com

Subject: If I embark on a cruise ship in San Diego and disembark the ship in Vancouver, a... [incident: 170114-000048]

Date: January 17, 2017 at 10:39 AM

To: scott......s@aol.com

Recently you requested personal assistance from our on-line support center.

Discussion Thread

Response Via Email (CBP Officer) 01/17/2017 12:39 PM

Dear Scott,

Those are usually considered separate trips if they are separate cruises that you have to book separately.

Mark

Answer Link: The Jones Act

 

I think the answer here is pretty clear. Yes, you were talking to an uninformed HAL agent, (unfortunately not a rare occurrence.) Contrary to the two postings answering the OP, It appears that by changing ships, your requested itinerary would not be a violation of the PVSA.

 

Scott & Karen

[CaveDiving]

Who do you trust? At the end of the day it is the cruise line that decides if you embark on their ship, and they are all saying "no". That person at the Customs & Border Protection isn't going to be around to help you, and I would have more confidence in their answer if they did not make the newbie mistake of referring to the Jones Act (not the appropriate law).

 

I don't see why anyone would take a chance like this, and I have also heard that those 1-day cruises are something best avoided.

 

igraf

 

I have to believe that your posting has been made with tongue in cheek. After all, if a question is asked and answered officially by the US government, I find it difficult to accept that your argument is that someone working for a cruise line can make up his own rules which conflict with the government’s, and which take precedence over the government’s rules......NOT!!!

 

Scott & Karen

[Boytjie]

And you trust the answer via email from someone at CBP has it all correct? ;)

 

PVSA is a complicated law and many have trouble interpreting it, even lawyers.

[Cruise Junky]

And you trust the answer via email from someone at CBP has it all correct? ;)

 

PVSA is a complicated law and many have trouble interpreting it, even lawyers.

 

It's not rocket science when it comes to cruises. It's called the Vessel Act not the line act. The same vessel cannot transport you. Changing ships is done all the time, perfectly legal. Phone agents are useless.

[igraf]

It was not. I go with what the all the cruise lines are saying again and again. This is not a matter where a single HAL representative made a mistake.

 

I do not share your confidence in a single government employee. Think about it. Why would HAL say no? They are losing business because of these restrictions.

 

igraf

 

 

 

I have to believe that your posting has been made with tongue in cheek. After all, if a question is asked and answered officially by the US government, I find it difficult to accept that your argument is that someone working for a cruise line can make up his own rules which conflict with the government’s, and which take precedence over the government’s rules......NOT!!!

 

Scott & Karen

Edited January 19, 2017 by igraf

[CoffeHound]

I am sorry to create another PVSA / Jones Act thread, but I am confused after reading some earlier threads on the Princess forum.

 

I am booked on the Eurodam April 24-28 sailing, San Diego to Vancouver. Today, I tried to add on a B2B, staying on the Eurodam for the April 28-29 sailing from Vancouver to Seattle. I received a very quick automated email from HAL (forwarded by TA) that this was in violation of the PVSA.

 

OK, so I did some research here on CC, and saw several references that if you changed ships, there is no violation. I see that the Oosterdam is making that same 1 day sailing on April 28. So, I called HAL to inquire, and was told that even changing ships is a violation of the PVSA.

 

Did I speak with an uninformed HAL agent, or will changing ships still not get around the violation?

 

When we booked the Eurodam April 24-28th I received an e-mail from HAL with an "Important update attached". The attachment was titled "Passenger Vessel Services Act" and confirmed our booking and then stated:

 

PASSENGER VESSEL SERVICE ACT:

Thank you for booking an upcoming cruise with Holland America Line. Please be advised that due to the Passenger Vessel Services Act, this sailing cannot be combined with ms Eurodam - 04/28/2017:

04/28/2017 to 04/29/2017 from Vancouver, B.C., CA to Seattle, Washington, US

 

If you have any questions regarding this message, please contact our

Reservations team

 

So we just decided to spend the night in Vancouver and we are taking the Oosterdam down to Seattle on the 29th. When I booked that, I received a similar message stating that that 1 day could not be combined with the Oosterdam's prior sailing up from San Diego.

 

I have no idea where the rep came up with the whole two night rule or whatever because we have done a similar itinerary in the past with Princess taking one ship up to Vancouver, spending a night and taking another one back down to a different US port.

 

We really like Vancouver so just consider it part of the vacation and really the one night in Vancouver won't cost us that much more than the difference in airfare between flying home from there as opposed to Seattle.

 

So, I guess my point is, we'll see you on the Eurodam, and you should consider spending a day in Vancouver and sailing down to Seattle with us on the Oosetrdam:D

[martincath]

So, I guess my point is, we'll see you on the Eurodam, and you should consider spending a day in Vancouver and sailing down to Seattle with us on the Oosetrdam:D

OP is actually already aware of this... with the many back & forth disagreements about PVSA interpretation above, it's easy to miss post #11 where the correct date of Oosterdam sailing is listed. With an overnight in Vancouver and a different vessel boarded, you and OP are both doubly-insulated from any PVSA infraction.

 

Enjoy your two cruises and your local stay in one of the finest cities on the planet - and if you want any help with places to go/stay/eat, come on over to the West Coast Departures board where there are many threads of relevance.