Can't add person because of fire code?

[japit]

We are sailing on the breakaway the end of the month. We have a haven penthouse aft cabin that accommodates 4. We talked our son into going with us, so instead of 2 in the cabin it would be 3. We called and were told we can't add him to our room because of fire code with life boats. They said it may change but told us we could book another room. So there is room on the ship. Still trying to figure this out, hope things change. Anybody ever heard of this?

[phoenix1181]

It happens. Adding another to your cabin would exceed the lifeboat capacity which is an absolute no no. The cabin capacity is only part of the equation, the lifeboat capacity is the other side & the one they have to follow.

[japit]

Well hopefully with upsells, people will move around and a space will become available, thanks

[easyboy]

We are sailing on the breakaway the end of the month. We have a haven penthouse aft cabin that accommodates 4. We talked our son into going with us, so instead of 2 in the cabin it would be 3. We called and were told we can't add him to our room because of fire code with life boats. They said it may change but told us we could book another room. So there is room on the ship. Still trying to figure this out, hope things change. Anybody ever heard of this?

Yes, there is a regulation on lifeboats.

[NHL Philly Fan]

The reason you can book a different cabin for him is that cabins in different locations on the ship have different muster stations and thus different lifeboat assignments. They absolutely can not, will not, and should not exceed life boat capacity ever.

[don't-use-real-name]

Keep checking back for a vacancy to occur allowing your son to join you and not miss the perks and OBC promos etc. of the suite.

 

You did not indicate the sailing date and ship ?

SORRY MISSED YOUR SAILING ON THE BREAKAWAY END OF THIS MONTH

The larger the ship it should be easier to get room for one more guest on a life boat and the cabin manifest adjusted accordingly !

 

While the suites (forward) maybe at capacity the IC at the mid ship stern may have room and therein the open vacancy at that muster station.

It is a puzzle of having life boats capacity matching the cabin occupancy at each muster station that is throwing this off and hard to understand.

 

Never the less keep checking back for that 1 opening - have all your documents in order to rapidly seize the moment and board the ship.

Adding one person to your suite is a fairly easy thing to do.

 

Give you an idea how this may happen - I am single and my preference is to

sail in a suite thus my suite with a capacity of 4 is only occupied with one.

Therefore at my muster station there is room for one more guest to be added

and perhaps as many 2 more for a total of the cabin capacity of 4.

NO NCL will not require you to bunk in with an unknown single but then in

this case when you are in your folks cabin a cabin like mine maybe restricted

to the -1- occupant and the same number of seats on the life boats.

 

So have NCL cull the stateroom list of guests to meet the safety requirements

- Don't give up have a NCL reservation/booking supervisor review this.

If you have Latitudes status make it known !

 

Having an IC at midship or at the stern certainly would be bummer - it may be tolerable if it was across from your folks haven? suite

so you could pop in from time time to enjoy the suite benefits with your folks.

 

I have added my nephew to my suite at the last minute on one cruise and on another added my S & BIL on a 2nd leg of a B2B -

no problems no red tape no snafu everything just perfect - It can be done "CANDO" !

Edited February 2, 2017 by don't-use-real-name
review of material

[hawkeyetlse]

Did you ask about possibly switching to a different suite (attached to a different lifeboat station) for the three of you?

[chengkp75]

More to the point than lifeboat capacity at a particular cabin/boat station is the fact that the request is close in to sailing. When a ship is nearing capacity (lifeboat or maximum capacity) due to lots of 3rd/4th guests being booked in cabins, they will place a hold on any more requests for 3rd/4th bookings until all cabins are booked to double occupancy. Since the 3rd/4th guests pay less than the first two in a cabin, if the ship is sailing near maximum capacity, they would prefer to have as many cabins occupied over having less cabins occupied at higher number of guests per cabin.

 

In other words, the maximum capacity of the ship is a fixed number above the double occupancy capacity. When bookings of 3rd/4th guests gets to that fixed number, but cabins are still unsold (so the ship is still below its maximum capacity), they will stop accepting additional guests in already booked cabins, in favor of booking more cabins for those additional guests.

[nomad098]

All the reasons above sound right and could be the reason.

 

However from personal experience not sure if they are correct.

 

Ran into a similar problem trying to book an inside and balcony for 5 people complete no go and told due to fire regs.

 

Could book three inside cabins adjacent on the same deck in the same area to each other no problem.

 

When I queried this with NCL they got very confused, the PCC checked

inventory for the ship and there was literally 100's of cabins available but no

matter where she tried to book 3 in a cabin it would not allow her. Several

people also mentioned this on the roll call for the Breakaway. This went on

for about two weeks supervisors got involved but the system kept throwing

up a red code error for fire regs. More than 50% of the Haven cabins were

available to book but only for 2 people. Techs were called and a day or two

later I was able to book the two cabins I wanted. It was about this time last

year I was trying to book for Easter. After I booked I was able to do mock

bookings for 3 right up to sail date.

 

So it maybe possible that there is another error in the system but PCC and

supervisors can not bypass the fire regs error code.

 

It might be worth asking the PCC if there is a large amount of cabins

available to push them to look at this as a programming error.

[Kingmaker_inc]

The exact same thing happened to me for our upcoming March cruise (high inventory time). We had 5 in a Haven 2 Bdr, which takes a max of 6. I had advised my PCC at the original time of purchase that I would eventually be adding the sixth, but when the time came there was no room left due to lifeboat seats.

 

It took them a while of wrangling and reorganization, but eventually it was resolved to my favour.

 

Press your PCC and have him/her speak to their supervisors and them to inventory management. It is your only hope.

[japit]

I really wish we could add him to our cabin. Our cabin in 9aft and I don't see us using the Haven pool/sundeck, more for the fact that he could dine together in the Haven and sit together at shows in haven seating area.

[Son of a son of a ...]

You could likely grease over the Haven seating for shows if it is only one person and that person is your child. Haven dining can be done, but for a charge. He can hang out on your balcony.

[mamasylvia]

Doesn't help you now, but when I booked our upcoming Alaska cruise and saw the 3rd/4th free offer, I immediately booked our 2 children with us without even asking them. I figured it would be easier to remove them if they didn't want to come than to add them later if the sail free perk was gone (although it also locked in a lifeboat place for them).

 

I agree some pressure couldn't hurt. Of course they want you to book a separate cabin for him, means more $$$ for them. If it wasn't so close to sailing, you might mention that he could sail in your suite on a different line and maybe you should just cancel your reservation completely, but you are probably past cancellation deadline so that would be a hollow threat.

[newmexicoNita]

We are sailing on the breakaway the end of the month. We have a haven penthouse aft cabin that accommodates 4. We talked our son into going with us, so instead of 2 in the cabin it would be 3. We called and were told we can't add him to our room because of fire code with life boats. They said it may change but told us we could book another room. So there is room on the ship. Still trying to figure this out, hope things change. Anybody ever heard of this?

 

even if there is room on the ship and the cabin will hold X number there is a limit to how many cabins can take 3 or 4 people. I know it is very complecated and makes no sense to some but if you think about it there is a reason. We will say there are 100 cabins that can handle 3 in a cabin, but the fire code will only allow 80 of those cabins to occupy 3 or more.

[detroitlions]

I have asked twice to add some one in a suite and both times got the answer you did and they gave me the same line.

 

Do I believe them? NO I do not

I think they are told not to let people do this like some one above mentioned to sell more rooms.

I think they look at it as another mouth to feed for not enough money.

[Loonbeam]

There is definitely a revenue management possibility here, but the above explanations are the more likely ones.

 

Each cabin is part of a zone (muster group). That zone is limited to X souls. Everyone, even an infant, counts as a soul. If there are a bunch of 4 person bookings in an area, that can fill the zone quickly (at which point yield management starts rearranging gtys, etc). This zone restriction CANNOT be overridden, as noted it is tied to lifeboat and station capacity.

 

Where revenue management comes in is if the zone is approaching double occupancy capacity, they will stop booking anything over 2 until almost all cabins are booked, to make sure they will not be in a position to sell a cabin due to lack of space.

 

As an example, lets say there are 15 cabins in a zone. The zone capacity might be 43. But the first 4 cabins booked all have 4 in them. Now, 16 slots are booked, and there are only 27 slots for the remaining 11 cabins. They might put a hold on bookings of 3 or 4 until they are down to 2 or 3 unbooked cabins in the zone. Of course, the exact formula varies from line to line and is proprietary.

 

There is also a shipwide soul limit, which includes passengers and crew. That also cannot be overriden but is rarely a factor.

[RDC1]

chengkp75 is correct.

 

The ship has a maximum passenger load. There is only a certain number of 3/4 passenger slots to use. They will not allow the number of those 3/4 slots to result in maximum passenger number, with cabins unsold (to do so would violate revenue models).

 

That is why they will not a 3rd or 4th, and tell you to book another cabin.

 

So saying that it is fire regulation is correct in that the ship cannot exceed maximum capacity, it is not the whole story in that the revenue limits the number of 3/4 slots that will be sold.

 

The breakaway and other NCL ships have a lot of 3/4 cabins and tend to attract a lot of families so it is easy to see them bumping into the limit.

[RDC1]

There is definitely a revenue management possibility here, but the above explanations are the more likely ones.

 

Each cabin is part of a zone (muster group). That zone is limited to X souls. Everyone, even an infant, counts as a soul. If there are a bunch of 4 person bookings in an area, that can fill the zone quickly (at which point yield management starts rearranging gtys, etc). This zone restriction CANNOT be overridden, as noted it is tied to lifeboat and station capacity.

 

Where revenue management comes in is if the zone is approaching double occupancy capacity, they will stop booking anything over 2 until almost all cabins are booked, to make sure they will not be in a position to sell a cabin due to lack of space.

 

As an example, lets say there are 15 cabins in a zone. The zone capacity might be 43. But the first 4 cabins booked all have 4 in them. Now, 16 slots are booked, and there are only 27 slots for the remaining 11 cabins. They might put a hold on bookings of 3 or 4 until they are down to 2 or 3 unbooked cabins in the zone. Of course, the exact formula varies from line to line and is proprietary.

 

There is also a shipwide soul limit, which includes passengers and crew. That also cannot be overriden but is rarely a factor.

 

On NCL ships it is hit more often than one might think.

 

In the most recent 10Q NCLH listed average occupancy percentage at 111%. Now this number also includes their more expensive lines which, as a rule, carry far fewer children and run much closer to 100%. So that would put the number higher than 111% for NCL. For them to average 111% that means that some cruises run higher and some lower. So it is easy to see them hitting absolute ship max on cruises with lots of families aboard during peak periods for families. Unfortunately I cannot find the numbers to calculate max load as a percentage on Breakaway. But on Celebrity, Princess and RCCL the max number tends to be no more than 120-125% of the 2 per cabin number and tend to be getting lower with the newer ships. Disney ships tend to run higher, but then one would expect them to with their family focus.

[Vyhanek]

If you have to put your son in another cabin it will be OK in the Haven, it will be easy to have him with you on the down low. For the dining in the Haven, I'm thinking they only ask for one card in the dining party, they aren't checking each guest to the Haven guest list. Even if they do, you can pay a single dining fee for guests.

 

The Haven restaurant serves the same menu basically for every evening meal with a single variation. Even if you love the Haven restaurant, you'll want to try other restaurants anyways. For breakfast, I'm positive they weren't checking my kids key cards.

 

As far as hanging out with you in the haven, that would be easy. There is no one checking key cards and it's a big busy, crazy mess in there most of the time. Kids aren't carrying key cards or ever asked.

 

The shows will be no problem.

 

Personally I don't believe the thing about the limited capacity of the life boats. They go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on about how they have so much extra capacity of life boats. Literally you will hear them say that 10 times at the lifeboat drill. And like you said, if there are many rooms not currently sold at this point, and in the Haven, you're willing to pay for him in your Haven room, you make it work. I'd just work around their system and it will be very easy to do!

 

They're asking you to skirt the system.

[xriva]

Our PCC told us the same thing a few years ago, as a planning measure. We were considering having my Mom join us, and he told us to book three in the cabin just in case because you could always take someone out, but with fire codes, it was difficult sometimes to add someone later.

 

I don't think it's a scam to make people buy another cabin. I would just accept whatever chengkp75 says about how the ship works and what the limitations are.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums mobile app

[chengkp75]

 

Personally I don't believe the thing about the limited capacity of the life boats. They go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on about how they have so much extra capacity of life boats. Literally you will hear them say that 10 times at the lifeboat drill.

 

 

While the ships do, by law, have to have 125% capacity in lifesaving equipment that is made up of both lifeboats and liferafts (this is what is said at muster drill, not that there is extra "lifeboat" capacity). There is no crew lifeboats, the only crew assigned to lifeboats are the 3-4 crew to handle the boat. 95% of crew are assigned to liferafts, which makes up the difference between the 75% capacity of the lifeboats and the 125% capacity of all lifesaving equipment. Lifeboat capacity only has to equal 75% of all souls onboard (passengers and crew), and passenger capacity is limited to the lifeboat capacity, not the total capacity of boats and rafts. Should a boat become unavailable in an emergency, of course passengers will use a raft, but passengers are limited by the number of seats in either boats or MES (marine evacuation systems, large multiple raft systems used on some ships) for "normal" operation, by law. You can't say, "well, there is 25% extra lifesaving capacity, so we'll just book a few extra people".

[Loonbeam]

Number 1 - Wrong. It was made VERY clear on our recent Haven cruise that no one not in the haven will be permitted including family members not staying in Haven cabins (they did check and they know faces very quickly, people WERE turned away). If you are not in a Haven cabin, you do not get access. Period. (Yes, you can sneak someone in, but if caught they will be removed, and if caught multiple times, disembarked).

 

Number 2 - At the haven Restaurant, while only one card swipes it does show who is in the cabin on the screen. Anyone not in the cabin will be charged $29 per meal if allowed at all because it requires pre-reservation to get into the Haven area.

 

Number 3 - It was already described, but the whole thing about capacity etc is correct. Under the rules of SOLAS and other regulations, a ship CANNOT exceed capacity at a muster station, period, and the system is designed to make sure that doesn't happen even at the cost of revenue (otherwise a ship would be thrilled to sell 4 in every single cabin)

 

 

 

Third,

If you have to put your son in another cabin it will be OK in the Haven, it will be easy to have him with you on the down low. For the dining in the Haven, I'm thinking they only ask for one card in the dining party, they aren't checking each guest to the Haven guest list. Even if they do, you can pay a single dining fee for guests.

 

The Haven restaurant serves the same menu basically for every evening meal with a single variation. Even if you love the Haven restaurant, you'll want to try other restaurants anyways. For breakfast, I'm positive they weren't checking my kids key cards.

 

As far as hanging out with you in the haven, that would be easy. There is no one checking key cards and it's a big busy, crazy mess in there most of the time. Kids aren't carrying key cards or ever asked.

 

The shows will be no problem.

 

Personally I don't believe the thing about the limited capacity of the life boats. They go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on about how they have so much extra capacity of life boats. Literally you will hear them say that 10 times at the lifeboat drill. And like you said, if there are many rooms not currently sold at this point, and in the Haven, you're willing to pay for him in your Haven room, you make it work. I'd just work around their system and it will be very easy to do!

 

They're asking you to skirt the system.

[pappapatt]

This exact problem is happening to me and my group of people as well. At the time of booking, my personal cruise consultant booked us with the intention of me being able to add a 3rd and 4th person. All he told us was that we "should add the people sooner rather than later." There was no mention of fire code at the time of our booking, so we were under the assumption that we could add the extra people with no problem. A week later I called him to add the other people and he said he'd have to check and get back to me and then he tells me that due to fire code we can't add them in that room or a similarly priced room. The only solution they offered was upgrading to the "Haven Suite" which is the most expensive room. It is unacceptable that we were guaranteed four people in a room at the time of booking, and are now told something completely different. Is there anything we can do? This doesn't seem right.

[tel2]

This exact problem is happening to me and my group of people as well. At the time of booking, my personal cruise consultant booked us with the intention of me being able to add a 3rd and 4th person. All he told us was that we "should add the people sooner rather than later." There was no mention of fire code at the time of our booking, so we were under the assumption that we could add the extra people with no problem. A week later I called him to add the other people and he said he'd have to check and get back to me and then he tells me that due to fire code we can't add them in that room or a similarly priced room. The only solution they offered was upgrading to the "Haven Suite" which is the most expensive room. It is unacceptable that we were guaranteed four people in a room at the time of booking, and are now told something completely different. Is there anything we can do? This doesn't seem right.

 

Well, I hate to sound a like a jerk, but you weren't "guaranteed" 4 people in the room. You were told you could book 4 in the room, and you chose not to. If you had added names and paid for them at the time, you wouldnt have this problem now. Is there no other room on the ship that can accomodate four? That is, can you just switch to another room?

 

Terry

[fredflint]

The fire code reason I doubt is real, most ships have the walking track on the same deck as the lifeboats/rafts and being a curious person I have counted the capacity and numbers of lifeboats. I cannot say for any NCL ship since I have not sailed on NCL yet! But other cruise lines lifeboat capacity is more than the maximum of the number of passengers. I have also counted the liferafts and that covers more than the crew. So it is more likely a software issue or something to do with selling cabins vs adding more people to existing reservations. If anyone is going on the ship all they need to do is walk by the lifeboats and count the capacity and number of boats to find out if the BS meter should be pegged or not.