Oosterdam dining time changes for this week

[stanford's girl]

I suppose the only thing that most people around here will be happy about with this new system is that there won't be a way to do the Baked Alaskan March ... not under this "Flexible time" system. Perhaps they'll still have Baked Alaskan, but it will be presented differently.

You're absolutely correct on this RevNeal.

When we were on the first test cruise, only the early seating had the parade. For us with the late seating, the waiter just brought it to your table with a sparkler in it.:(

Somehow it didn't taste as good as it usually does. I think it lost something in the delivery.

[sail7seas]

What you're suggesting doesn't reflect the "Flexible Arrival Time" Schedule as outlined by the Director of Ships Services. Under the new scheme all passengers will still be assigned tables, just like now. If Sail gets a table for 2 now, under the current system, she'll still be able to get a table for 2 under the new schedule. She won't have to wait because her table will be ready for her when she and her husband arrives at their traditionally scheduled time.

 

They also reserved the right to seat us wherever they wish when we arrive at the dining room. We have been seated for well over 400 nights at the exact same table on all the 'dam' ship. We like that 'dam' table and that is the exact same table we wish to continue to dine at. Why we like it; why it matters to us is our private business and does not matter to anyone but us. But, after all the 'dam' days/nights we have been on HAL ships, it doesn't seem too much to ask that we have that table. Someone has to sit at it so why shouldn't it be us? It will take a lot of convincing for me to be assured we may expect to arrive at the dining room at 8:00 each evening and proceed to 'our' table and not suddenly be placed at a table for six that has two free chairs.....or even worse a table for four with two free chairs. I'm not interested in anyone's free chairs. I want the two chairs I've reserved for us to be there each evening for us.

 

 

 

 

Rev.........

 

Are you really sure you like the idea of calling it Flexible Arrival Time?

FAT? I'm not sure that will be a terrific choice for naming their new dining system. Sure ruins my appetite to think I'm eating on a :eek: FAT Dining System. :(

[sail7seas]

I'm not going to get into this dance about running off to Radisson. It's not going to happen. Sure, we might try them once sometime out of idle curiousity or because friends of ours always travel with them and have asked us to join them.

 

But, after the number of times we've been with HAL, it's pretty clear we will be staying with HAL or we will not be cruising.

 

It is not impossible if these changes continue at the rapid rate we are seeing them and if are not pleased with them, we well could go back to land resort vacations. We did dozens and dozens of those long before we ever started cruising and had wonderful vacations.

 

We have many friends on HAL ships that we want to continue to see. We would miss some of them very dearly and it is a factor in our deciding about our travel. These people made us love HAL; these people are the ones who have to deal with corporate's brainstorms. They're the ones who have to face the furious cruisers who are unpleasantly surprised when they arrive at a ship and find something like what people found on ODAM. They had confirmations for dining that were ignored.

 

They paid for a particular experience and it was substantially changed. They were given no choice to take back their money and refuse to travel under the new terms HAL presented without notice.

 

The crews are the ones who are face to face with unhappy people who have paid thousands and are not going to enjoy this vacation from the get go. Then these crew people have to explain why the ratings were low. Why so many passengers complained and gave low ratings.

 

Does Seattle care?

Does Seattle care?

Does Seattle care?

 

This time, the repeat is not a malfunction on the Board. This time I wrote it three times. This time I really mean the question enough to want to continue asking it.

 

We're not that old, Seattle. My DH isn't even retired yet. We still have loads more disposable income to spend on cruises. We've already spent a great deal. Don't push us out to pasture while you woo the cute little young 'uns. They have kids to raise (and that's pricey); they have colleges to pay for (and that's pricey); weddings to run (and that's pricey)........

 

We're the ones with the time and the money and we aren't dead yet!

 

[RevNeal]

They also reserved the right to seat us wherever they wish when we arrive at the dining room.

 

From whence are you getting this idea? It's not reflected in what the Manager of Ships Services for the Holland America Line has stated. If you have an assigned table for two at 8 pm, that's your table. If you want to come at 8 pm every night, it's your table ... just like under the current traditional dining system. To quote him in a different e-mail, written to someone else about this kind of issue:

 

... You will be assigned as per past dining traditions. If you choose to stick with the plan, then it is your table for the week and there are no changes. However, if you choose to be flexible, we also are offering you more options to meet your requests.

 

I think what you're worried about is this statement from this thread's OP:

 

Although tables are assigned, they are not guaranteed. Accoding to the information handed out, the Maitre'd (sp) has the descretion to seat you with others arriving at the same time, so as to keep everyone being served the same course at the same time.

 

But, clearly, this doesn't apply for those who are assigned to a table for 2! When you and your husband arrive at 8 pm, your whole table has arrived and you'll be seated for dinner. It probably doesn't even apply for a couple at a table for 4 who arrive and discover that their table-mates are in the Pinnacle ... they'll probably get to sit there by themselves, although they may be asked if they would like to sit with others. The kind of people this applies to are people like ME (and, probably, my Cruising partner), who are by themselves at a table for 10. If the rest of my table doesn't show up for dinner at 8 pm when I arrive, the Maitre'd has the discretion to move me to sit others. In such a case, if this happens repeatedly (and it can, easily) I become a football ... or a "flying dutchman" on a Dutch ship. If my table mates never show up, I'll be footballed to a different available table each night. This affects ME horribly ... I want an assigned table with the same people every night, NOT to be footballed to different tables where I'm not wanted and will not be able to sit every night.

 

It will take a lot of convincing for me to be assured we may expect to arrive at the dining room at 8:00 each evening and proceed to 'our' table and not suddenly be placed at a table for six that has two free chairs.....or even worse a table for four with two free chairs. I'm not interested in anyone's free chairs. I want the two chairs I've reserved for us to be there each evening for us.

 

Again, I don't see why you -- of all people, being a suite passenger -- would expect that you can't sit at your normal table for two at 8 pm. If you've had it reserved for you at 8 pm, and if you arrive at 8 pm, you'll get it. The ONLY way I can see that you might be invited to sit elsewhere would be IF you were to make a reservation at the Pinnacle Grill some evening and then change your mind and come to the Main dining room instead. In such a case your table MIGHT have been given to another couple (a couple that had voiced interest in eating alone for a night); but, then, it's your fault for making but not keeping your reservation in the Pinnacle grill. Not that I would think that you would ever do something like that.

 

Are you really sure you like the idea of calling it Flexible Arrival Time?

 

I don't like it at all, but if that will keep the Supersteins of the world from arguing that "Leisure means Leisure, so I should be allowed to wear my 1972 power-blue polyester Leisure Suit with open necked collar even on Formal Night" then, fine. I doubt they'll use that Acronym, or even that term, though I must admit that ever since I used the term "Flexible" Joe has used it quite a lot in e-mail to me and others. I'd suggest "Flex-time Dining" for the idea, but that might make some people thing of weight lifters ... so. ;) And, frankly, I'd rather them NOT institute this at all.

[Grumpy1]

 

They also reserved the right to seat us wherever they wish when we arrive at the dining room.

 

I can see it now... lining up to meet the Maitre D, shaking his hand while slipping him a large bill and saying "You WILL see that our table is ready for us each night, won't you?":mad:

[sail7seas]

I can see it now... lining up to meet the Maitre D, shaking his hand while slipping him a large bill and saying "You WILL see that our table is ready for us each night, won't you?":mad:

 

 

Grumpy.....I so hope that is not where this is going.

 

DH and I (almost) always happily give an appropriate thank you to most Maitre d's at the end of our cruises. We like to thank them in the traditional way for providing us with a wonderful dining experience.

 

I hope it never becomes a bribe at the start of the cruise in for us to be able to enjoy our dining experience.

[sail7seas]

Rev.....I expressed (some) of my concerns with this Flexible business. These are the things I am concerned about for us. Please do not always assume that every suite guests always gets precisely what they want all the time. My concerns are real to me and you have not convinced me otherwise.

 

 

I understand what you are concerned about for you and others who customarily enjoy a large table. I think it would stink if that were to become a reality. I would not like it in the least were I you and fully understand why you do not like it.

[gizmo]

I still think the entire idea is moronic and nothing but another marketing gimic.

 

It might work for those who want a table for 2 or groups that are together but for people who like to sit with others it is a horrible option. People are going to be showing up at all different times. If you show up at 7:30 and no one is there what happens? They are going to take your order.

Two of your table mates arrive at 8:00. You just received your soup or salad and they are just ordering. Now it is 8:30 and in strolls 2 more table mates. They were in the Ocean Bar and didn't know what time it was. No big deal, this is "FLEXIBLE/LEISURE DINING" . :rolleyes:

 

The marketing crew who think Hal has to have everything another cruise line has should be shot.

[RuthC]

Why not? The Vista ships generally cater to families ... and they are larger. The smaller ships ... the ones that do more extended itineraries ... more expensive ones ... and thus don't get a lot of the family group ... probably will be handled differently in terms of dining

Rita, where are you getting the idea that HAL would operate two systems? It wasn't in any of the e-mails from headquarters.

I don't see HAL going to two systems. The P/R/S ships are not exclusively (nor even primarily) on longer, exotic cruises. They do the 7-day family routes as much as the Vista's do. And there is no reason to think that families who try the Vista's wouldn't expect the other HAL ships to operate the same way. Families will book the P/R/S ships and will expect the same experience.

No, I fear that your idea that HAL will have two systems is yours alone at this point, and is sheer speculation.

[AirGorilla]

I still think the entire idea is moronic and nothing but another marketing gimic.

 

It might work for those who want a table for 2 or groups that are together but for people who like to sit with others it is a horrible option. People are going to be showing up at all different times. If you show up at 7:30 and no one is there what happens? They are going to take your order.

Two of your table mates arrive at 8:00. You just received your soup or salad and they are just ordering. Now it is 8:30 and in strolls 2 more table mates. They were in the Ocean Bar and didn't know what time it was. No big deal, this is "FLEXIBLE/LEISURE DINING" . :rolleyes:

 

The marketing crew who think Hal has to have everything another cruise line has should be shot.

Gizmo --

 

I think that you and The Rev are the ones who have figured this scheme out. For a couple who requests at table for two at the late seating, this is pretty much OK. In fact, they can show up at 7:45, 8:00, 8:15, all the way up to 9:00, and their table will be ready. Same thing for small groups traveling together who are "joined at the hip" for cocktails and dinner. The larger tables of guests who are paired up by the cruise line will have big problems trying to coordinate arrival times under this system.

 

Another thing that intrigues me is how the kitchen will deal with this. They won't be able to take their normal banquet food approach -- some diners will want entrees at 8:00 pm -- others will want 'em at 9:30 pm. I can't figure how the kitchen will cope. I don't think that Holland and other mass-market lines can cook dinners to order, like is done on Crystal/Radisson/Seabourn/etc., given the large number of diners.

 

Happy sailing and good luck with this!!

[AirGorilla]

 

We are among those who travel as a couple and very rarely with other people. Once in a while we may cruise with another couple (as we are this summer on Maasdam), but we mostly cruise on our own.

 

We will definitely suffer negatively when they institute this new dining plan....if it extends to all ships in the fleet. If it is only for the Vista ships, we can avoid cruising on them.

 

 

It is my understanding that you and your husband, always sitting at a table for two, will be at the top of the '"unharmed" list. Your table is reserved, and will be ready for you when you arrive for the late seating. If you have the normal quantity of toddies, and arrive at 8:00, it'll be ready. If you have one LESS than usual and arrive at 7:30, it'll be ready. If you have one MORE than usual and arrive at 8:30, it'll be ready. Heck, if you have TWO MORE than usual, and arrive at 9:00, it'll still be ready!!!

 

My wife and I always book tables for two just like you prefer, and aren't worried the least bit about this for us.

 

I feel bad for Rev Neal and other solo travelers, and also couples who are matched up by the ship for their dining companions. This will be a real hassle for them, trying to match up schedules for arriving at dining room simultaneously with their tablemates.

[sail7seas]

We shall see.

 

[gizmo]

 

 

 

Another thing that intrigues me is how the kitchen will deal with this. They won't be able to take their normal banquet food approach -- some diners will want entrees at 8:00 pm -- others will want 'em at 9:30 pm. I can't figure how the kitchen will cope. I don't think that Holland and other mass-market lines can cook dinners to order, like is done on Crystal/Radisson/Seabourn/etc., given the large number of diners.

 

Happy sailing and good luck with this!!

 

Excellent point. It is going to be a real zoo in the kitchen. :eek:

[Joanandjoe]

We've been lurking on this thread, but finally had to put in our $0.02.

 

We have a very narrow vacation window for 2006, and the only cruises we could find (on HAL or any other line) that went where we wanted to go were in November, on the new Noordam. We had a lot of qualms regarding the Vista class, since our last three cruises were on ships with fewer than 500 PAX, and we loved being on small ships. By our standards, R & S classes are mega-ships. The Oosterdam dining changes, and the possibility that they would be extended to all HAL ships, or only the Vista class ships, have added to those qualms. Deal breakers - no: but definitely a source of anxiety.

 

As for the comments regarding "tables for 2 won't be bothered by the changes", maybe we've been unlucky, but we've requesed a table for two three times (twice on HAL, once on Celebrity) and only gotten it once. That was on HAL, and the table was awful - next to the serving station, and they wouldn't change it for us. So even though we've requested a table for two, we don't expect to get it. If we don't, we'll have all the problems discussed above relating to large tables of unrelated people. As for dining times, we eat early - but not as early as 5:30. UGH! We've been spoiled on the small ship lines: we ate at 7 p.m., our preferred time (but we'd rather be earlier than that than later).

 

Hopefully, we'll have a wider choice of cruises in 2007.

 

HAL management, pay attention! A significant number of Mariners want traditional dining. If we can't get it, we'll move to Celebrity or luxury lines.

[Joanandjoe]

It's too late to edit our last post, so we'll put our revised next to last paragraph on this post.

 

Hopefully, we'll have a wider choice of cruises in 2007. Will we choose HAL? Not if HAL keeps messing with a good product.

[RevNeal]

Dear Sail,

 

I hope we're wrong about this impacting us negatively ... yet, as with myself, I understand WHY you fear that such may well be the case with you and yours. Since it's not my job to defend HAL or a program they're going to implement that I don't like, I'll not contend on the matter any more ... experience will bear out, for each of us, wether or not our dining experience is impacted negatively. All we can do is try not to worry and just go and have a good time.

 

Joe, in his latest e-mail to me, indicates that it is pretty certain that the new dining schedule will be in place on the Oosterdam when I make my cruise on her in January, so I'll let you know what I see. Perhaps I'll interview the Hotel Manager about how the process works.

[sail7seas]

Do we necessarily think we will be told what percentage of people are happy with the changes? They don't have to and probably would not tell us what comments people write on their comment sheets.

 

It isn't up to Hotel Managers (IMO) to share with us what the comment sheets say. Aren't they obliged to make it seem that most passengers are happy as clams with the changes?

 

I think we'd get a fair idea of the general consensus in casual conversation throughout our cruise with our fellow passengers.

 

 

 

 

 

[TidePrideGA]

You know, this brings up an interesting question. Assuming HAL has an agenda (as all business decisions do), then what would it be?

 

Ability to conserve resources? It wouldn't seem so, since most seem to agree the changes will make it harder on the resources, not easier.

 

Save money? How could that be if it doesn't ease resources?

 

Satisfy more pax? Most hear seem to believe that most HAL pax will be disgruntled enough to change lines.

 

Attract new pax? What was wrong with the old ones? HAL ships seem to sail mostly full.

 

So what could it be? I have an idea, but would like to hear what others think.

[sail7seas]

Interesting question.....

 

I think their reason for testing new concepts for dining is to attract more new cruisers; young cruisers who they hope will have loads of years to cruise with HAL. I believe they feel many of the die hard Mariners will accept most anything they rearrange, change, discontinue.......and I happen to think they may be right.

 

 

They may lose some Mariners but they would anyway for one reason or another.

 

They would not lose DH and me to another cruiseline over this. We, conceivably stop cruising with any cruiseline, if there are enough changes that displease us. But, we are not thinking of 'jumping cruiselines'.

 

If we continue to cruise, we will continue to cruise HAL.

 

 

[Grumpy1]

You may be right, Sail. Brand loyalty is something that every company strives for, and once a loyalty is established, it is not easily broken, but it can be broken. HAL might want to study the Oldsmobile. For many years, they had a very loyal base, but it was an aging base. Remember how they tried to market to the younger market with jazzy, smaller offerings and the slogan "it's not your father's Oldsmobile"? Where are they now? They not only destroyed their base, but could not compete in the overcrowded market they wanted to reach. Hal could easily find themselves doing the same thing.

[kryos]

The kind of people this applies to are people like ME (and, probably, my Cruising partner), who are by themselves at a table for 10. If the rest of my table doesn't show up for dinner at 8 pm when I arrive, the Maitre'd has the discretion to move me to sit others.

Would he move you? I doubt it. What I think he would do if your tablemates didn't show up and it was only the two of you at the table is start seating others there to join you. Of course, this means different dining companions, but I doubt the Maitre'd would walk up to you and ask you to move. That would be rather, shall we say, crass?

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

I think their reason for testing new concepts for dining is to attract more new cruisers; young cruisers who they hope will have loads of years to cruise with HAL. I believe they feel many of the die hard Mariners will accept most anything they rearrange, change, discontinue.......and I happen to think they may be right.

They'd better watch their step, though. Young folks ... by virtue of still being young ... want to try new things. They are not likely to cruise with HAL, like it, and then book exclusively cruise vacations with HAL for many, many years to come. Their loyalty generally doesn't run like that ... at least according to some consumer studies I've read.

 

Older folks, though, tend to be tired of trying new things. They like comfort in the familiar. If they find something they like, they will usually stick with it. HAL had better remember that before they spend too much time and effort in attracting the younger cruiser. They may find that they lose more by chasing the "diehard Mariner" away than they get by luring in the young family who may take a cruise this year, and then Disney vacations for the next three.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[Two@Sea]

Would he move you? I doubt it. What I think he would do if your tablemates didn't show up and it was only the two of you at the table is start seating others there to join you. Of course, this means different dining companions, but I doubt the Maitre'd would walk up to you and ask you to move. That would be rather, shall we say, crass?

 

I think it is also "crass" to be placed in the position of having to arrange tomorrow's dining time with your newly-met tablemates. Imagine...

 

"We would like to dine at 8:15 tomorrow evening."

 

"Oh, that's a bit late for us. How about 7:45 instead?"

 

"Well, we have a long excursion and will probably get back late. We would also like to rest a bit before rushing to the dining room."

 

"Surely (exasperated sigh) you can hurry just a bit..."

 

Actually, maybe it would be a good idea to switch everyone around, because no one will be feeling friendly toward their tablemates...

[kryos]

Actually, maybe it would be a good idea to switch everyone around, because no one will be feeling friendly toward their tablemates...

You are absolutely right. And, what would probably happen is even if the one couple agreed to the earlier dining time, they would probably get there half an hour or so late ... because they would do exactly what they said they would do ... get back from their excursion and rest a bit before going to the dining room.

 

When they arrived, they would find their original table full ... with people probably on their main course, or even dessert by that time, and would be seated at another table with different dining companions ... unless they wanted a table for just their party, and one was immediately available.

 

That's the whole point of "anytime" dining. You CAN take that extra half hour or so in getting ready for dinner. You DON'T have to rush around. And, that is exactly why a lot of people like the concept and it goes over so well on Princess and on NCL.

 

Like I said before, if I normally traveled with a group, I too would probably like it. If we got back from an excursion late, we could go to the dining room at the upper end of the seating window. But as a single traveler, this is gonna be bad news for me because it means I have to get used to different dining companions every single night.

 

A friend of mine on Princess, though, is entirely different. We met on the roll call for our cruise, and even though she normally preferred Anytime Dining ... we arranged to be seated at the same table in traditional dining on this particular cruise. We requested a table for eight, figuring we'd get to meet some other people that way. As it turned out, we were generally the only people at this large table on many nights ... she, her aunt and me. Another couple switched to early seating on the first night of the cruise, and the other couple only ate in the dining room sporadically. This is specifically why, she told me, that she prefers Anytime Dining, and will always opt for it in the future. She said that as you meet people during the day ... either around the ship or while on excursions ... you can always make arrangements to dine together that evening. This way, most evenings you have a pretty good sized crowd eating together, and it's a lively and more fun bunch.

 

I guess that would work if you're really outgoing, but if you're the more quiet type like me, you're only going to end up meeting these new people as you are shown to their table that evening in Anytime Dining. Then, you just have to hope they are as enamored of the prospect of sharing a dinner with you as you are with them.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[Joanandjoe]

As we said on the original Oosterdam dining change thread, flexible dining worked well for us on the Wind Surf and the Radisson Seven Seas Navigator. These were small ships, and we kept bumping into the same people. Even for introverts such as us, it was easy to find table mates about half the time, and to find tables for two the rest of the time. The one time we tried eating dinner with strangers on Radisson, the conversation was as filled with cliches as some of the posters have suggested. "Where are you from? How many cruises have you been on? Do you have any children or grandchildren." Silence.

 

We think it would work very poorly for us on a large ship--we (especially Joe) are too shy to meet people casually. For us one of the best parts of a large ship experience is sitting at the same table, with the same wait staff, and getting to know both the table mates and the wait staff. We would miss that with flexible dining. Indeed, flexible dining, large ship size, and smallish cabins without bathtubs are the reasons why we're unlikely to try Princess. HAL, are you listening?