ISLAND Dry Dock Delay????? - Next Cruise Departing DEC 7 and not 6th???

[rayliang]

Very enlightening post. Is Princess unique in this regard or do all cruiselines operate in the same manner?

 

I would say no, since most of the big cruise lines are all subsidiaries of Carnival.

[chengkp75]

While I won't dispute CHPURSER's viewpoint from his/her perspective, I'll just comment on a few points from my perspective.

 

" renting the dry dock space costs millions" This is not accurate, though it is a common misconception to the non-maritime world. The docking and undocking costs for a ship like a Princess cruise ship (which means the setting of the blocks, the tugs and divers to get the ship into/out of the dock, cleaning the dock, and removal of the blocks for the next ship) will be around $80k. Each "lay day" in drydock, for a dock the size of Freeport's, will run $20-30k.

 

 

"Next they compile a complete list of projects that need to be done in dry dock. Then they cancel about 25% of the projects in order to shorten dry dock time and reduce costs". The list of projects typically comes from ship's management, and typically the hotel department wants "everything fixed", whether it is new loungers on the pool deck, or a new layout to the buffet, and it is typically presented to corporate without any cost estimates whatsoever, or any cost/benefit analysis. Corporate then does the required cost/benefit analysis, and determines which projects will be done, much to the dismay of the hotel department.

 

 

Why are drydock schedules rigidly held to? Because there is another ship waiting for your ship to leave the dock, the two days to clear and reset the blocks, and get their ship into the dock. Any delay that Princess would request would result in the shipyard having to pay demurrage (delay) costs to the next customer, and so on down the line until the yard could rush to get the schedule back on line.

 

 

But, the work could be completed in "wet berth" at the shipyard, and not affect the drydock schedule, you say. True, if berth space is available, and the workers available, and not required for the next ship.

 

 

As for balancing the cost of extending the period out of revenue versus the cost to complete the job while in service, this is simple business practice, and I can't think of a single cruise line that does not do this. How many airports, malls, and hotels have you been in that have the "pardon our mess while we remodel" signs up?

 

 

As usual, I don't attempt to deal with the customer service aspect, as to whether or not it is fair to the passengers on the next cruise, as this is not my area, I just look at it from a technical standpoint, and from a purely business standpoint. I mean, if the lines took extra time off (and typically the time out of revenue would be more than the extra time needed for the shipyard, due to itineraries), they would lose, as CHPURSER says, tens of millions of dollars. How many times can they afford to do that, until they either raise cruise fares (and the resultant complaints of money grubbing) or go out of business.

[Steelers36]

Port Everglades schedule now showing ISLAND arrival at 9:45pm tonight - Pier 2 as expected. That should be good news for all cruisers and expect a normal check-in and boarding tomorrow.

[Silvara7]

I've stumped my brain but can't figure out what a BVE cruise is. Please help me understand, thanks!

[chengkp75]

I've stumped my brain but can't figure out what a BVE cruise is. Please help me understand, thanks!

 

That is the Bon Voyage Experience, where you pay to tour the ship while in port.

[EastBay Cruisers]

Without even addressing any possible "management shortcomings" regarding drydocks, a short, last minute delay like this could possibly be simply a "refloat" problem. One of the major jobs done during a drydocking is the removal for inspection of all valves that separate the ship's systems from the sea ("hull valves"), since these cannot be removed or inspected while in the water. The last thing done prior to flooding the dock and floating the ship is to bring the ship down into the water to a depth where all openings that were taken apart are now under water, but the ship is not floating off the drydock keel blocks. The ship's engineers, along with the shipyard supervisors, then go around and inspect every connection for leakage. If there is one, it may require raising the drydock again (a couple of hours), fixing the problem (another couple of hours), lowering the ship again ( a couple of hours), and re-inspecting before getting the okay to drop the dock and allow the ship to float. Typically, you allow a few hours of slack time for these types of problems (fairly common), but if the problems required more time to repair than alloted, then the departure could be pushed back.

Thank you -- always appreciate your perceptive and knowledgeable comments. :)

[Silvara7]

That is the Bon Voyage Experience, where you pay to tour the ship while in port.

I thank you for the info. Most acronyms I can figure out but this was beyond my skill level.

[dmwnc1959]

A couple of screen shots from Marine Traffic

 

5:33PM

 

 

5:44PM

[dmwnc1959]

Leaving Freeport...

 

6:02PM

[Steelers36]

Sweet photos.

[DrivesLikeMario]

Thanks for the pictures and updates everyone! :)

[dmwnc1959]

The Port Everglades website is now showing arrival time as 11pm at the sea buoy.

[dmwnc1959]

Location update 9:31PM ...Port Everglades is on the left side margin (middle)....goodnight all :)

[Steelers36]

11:30pm now.. They still have not turned on the bridge cam.

[Steelers36]

Docked. End thread I expect, unless cruisers hear what caused this delay.

[Steelers0854]

Pam,

 

I'm not sure where you are getting your information on Princess Dry docks. I worked 4 dry docks for Princess. All 4 were significantly late.

 

In the pre dry dock conferences, my corporate bosses already knew that we couldn't possibly make it on time, but they cautioned us not to tell anyone until the last possible moment.

 

Dry docks are terribly expensive. The demolition and construction costs are very high, the contractors need to be fed and housed, renting the dry dock space costs millions. We still have to pay and feed the crew. There is no revenue nor tips coming in.

 

 

 

Carnival Corp and her subsidiaries have become famous for cutting financial corners on dry docks.

 

First they get a good estimate on how many days are required to do the job properly and completely. Then they reduce that necessary time by about 30% to keep costs down.

 

Next they compile a complete list of projects that need to be done in dry dock. Then they cancel about 25% of the projects in order to shorten dry dock time and reduce costs.

 

During the cruise before dry dock, they bring contractors aboard to start some projects early. This is annoying to the paying passengers, but allows them to keep the dry dock shorter, saving money.

 

During dry dock, in our daily meetings, we get updates on the progress of each project. When it appears that the project will not be completed on time, it is reduced or cancelled.

 

As we near the end of the dry dock, we get a final list of projects that will not be completed on time, and estimates of how much more time is needed for the each one.

 

At this point, the cruise company starts bumping passengers and crew from the next cruise to free up beds for contractors to sail with the ship.

 

There is NEVER a thought of adding a few days to the dry dock in order to have the ship in proper shape for the next paying passengers.

 

 

 

My last dry dock with Princess, we were running a week late on many projects. The office insisted that we sail as scheduled. For the first cruise, many areas were roped off, with construction ongoing. The ship was filthy and noisy. We had thousands of passenger complaints.

 

 

 

When I spoke to my corporate bosses about this ridiculous situation, their answer was very clear:

 

 

 

"Extending the dry dock to do a proper job would cost us many millions of dollars. Sailing the ship unfinished will result in many unhappy guests, most of whom can be bought off with OBC or future cruise discounts. Those who cannot be bought off and do not return will be replaced by new passengers. In the end we must balance the costs. Extending the dry dock to do a proper job might cost us an additional $20 million in costs and lost revenues. Buying off disgruntled passengers will cost us $1 million maximum."

 

 

 

That was the day I decided that Princess was not the company for me.

 

 

 

I think Pam was just saying that there is rarely a delay resulting in a cancelled or delayed cruise from dry dock, not that things don’t get finished, etc.

 

As to your last quote, pretty sure that’s not unique to Princess and that any cruiseline would have a similar conversation. At the end of the day it’s all about the revenue, if they can get away with sailing early with some limited disruption and offset the costs for satisfying guests with the revenue they are going to do it.

[lstone19]

No. This isn’t the worst. The worst was years ago when the Coral was being built. She had three Caribbean cruises planned and fully booked before her 10-day Panama Canal Christmas cruise that I’d booked. She missed the first sailing, then the second, and a week before my sailing, ours was canceled. No compensation; no FCC; no OBC; just a refund. Try booking a Christmas cruise and new flights days before Christmas. I scrambled and found an RCI cruise but flights and rebooked hotels cost me a very pretty penny.

 

Pam, no, on its own, that isn't the worst. The worst was to have been booked on that cruise (we were as well) and have your employer file for bankruptcy on the same day the cruise was cancelled. That infamous day for me will be 15 years ago this Saturday (despite the bankruptcy, I continued to work there another 14+ years retiring earlier this year although I did take a big hit on the retirement plan; as for the cruise, we rebooked for the almost identical itinerary a year later).

 

Back to the real topic, someone earlier posted that the main reason for the dry dock was to replace the beds. Ships do not go into dry dock to replace beds - that can be done with the ship in the water. Ships go into dry dock to do hull work under the waterline. All the other work, such as beds, is done to take advantage of the ship being empty of passengers. If work needs to be done that does not require under the waterline work, the ship stays in the water. In fact, when we did take that year delayed cruise on Coral, it was coming off a four-day layoff for some work to be done that did not require it being in dry dock (IIRC, also at Freeport but the ship stayed in the water).

[pablo222]

I think Pam was just saying that there is rarely a delay resulting in a cancelled or delayed cruise from dry dock, not that things don’t get finished, etc. .

 

...which I don't think is true.

 

There have been plenty of cases reported here of boarding being delayed, because the ship left freeport late.

 

There have even been other cases of princess getting space in the convention center for passengers to wait until their late

boarding.

[DrivesLikeMario]

Good news! I told my friends to get to Pier 2 at 10am and sure enough, they were completely through check-in and security and in their cabin at 10:12am. They had a super easy boarding and are happy to be onboard.

[Steelers0854]

...which I don't think is true.

 

 

 

There have been plenty of cases reported here of boarding being delayed, because the ship left freeport late.

 

 

 

There have even been other cases of princess getting space in the convention center for passengers to wait until their late

 

boarding.

 

 

 

Do you mind sharing these? I can’t remember reading a time recently where a ship boarded a day late due to coming out of dry dock? When you say late boarding I’m not referring to later on the same day, but actually losing a day like Pam had mentioned.

[Steelers36]

Good news! I told my friends to get to Pier 2 at 10am and sure enough, they were completely through check-in and security and in their cabin at 10:12am. They had a super easy boarding and are happy to be onboard.

 

I was giving the same advice - don't wait for Princess - get a taxi and GO!!

 

I notice they pushed back departure to 4:30pm and now 5:00pm. Who knows why - can't be for loading passengers.

[Steelers36]

Pam, no, on its own, that isn't the worst. The worst was to have been booked on that cruise (we were as well) and have your employer file for bankruptcy on the same day the cruise was cancelled. That infamous day for me will be 15 years ago this Saturday (despite the bankruptcy, I continued to work there another 14+ years retiring earlier this year although I did take a big hit on the retirement plan; as for the cruise, we rebooked for the almost identical itinerary a year later).

 

Back to the real topic, someone earlier posted that the main reason for the dry dock was to replace the beds. Ships do not go into dry dock to replace beds - that can be done with the ship in the water. Ships go into dry dock to do hull work under the waterline. All the other work, such as beds, is done to take advantage of the ship being empty of passengers. If work needs to be done that does not require under the waterline work, the ship stays in the water. In fact, when we did take that year delayed cruise on Coral, it was coming off a four-day layoff for some work to be done that did not require it being in dry dock (IIRC, also at Freeport but the ship stayed in the water).

 

Yes, I had beds on the brain as we are looking forward to having the new Princess beds next months for our 60-night S.A. trip. But they were also painting and who knows what else with the hull. Another big reason for the break was prep for Ocean Medallion.

[cruisingpeople]

The Independence Of The Seas is departing right now, (5:00 EST), while the Island is still at the terminal.

[pablo222]

Do you mind sharing these? I can’t remember reading a time recently where a ship boarded a day late due to coming out of dry dock? When you say late boarding I’m not referring to later on the same day, but actually losing a day like Pam had mentioned.

 

Sorry, I don't recall the specifics, just that it happens from time-to-time.

 

I recall one case where the ship arrived in the afternoon of embarcation day.

 

I can't think of any reasonable way to search here for details.

[DrivesLikeMario]

I was giving the same advice - don't wait for Princess - get a taxi and GO!!

 

I notice they pushed back departure to 4:30pm and now 5:00pm. Who knows why - can't be for loading passengers.

 

Maybe they're waiting for some kind of product delivery for the renovation? I would think some of the work will continue during this cruise - at least for a few days.