Delta??? KLM??? Med cruise

[SandyR5]

HI - Don't know much about KLM but the fares to Venice/Barcelona look good. Delta's are even better, but they're in chapter 11 and I'm nervous about booking them for a trip NEXT November. Never thought about booking now, but those fares are real good. Advice????? Opinions?????

[joeyanddavid]

we bought ours from American but we are flying from Los Angeles..

 

LAX to BCN then VCE to LAX 912 plus tax PP

 

JFK has some great fares

[Leela]

I have flown KLM a number of times. Their hub at Schipol Airport, in Amsterdam, is very convenient, well-run, and nice. One thing to watch out for: on a few routes, KLM still runs old McDonnell-Douglass widebodies (it's basically the old DC-10, but it's got some other name now like MD something). The planes are safe enough, but they are just uncomfortable by today's standards: back in coach there are a LOT of "middle" seats because the configuration is something like 2-5-3. Or maybe it was 2-7-2. Regardless, there was a "sea" of "middle" seats back there as compared ot what we're used to on a Boeing 777 or 767-ER. Also, do not sit in the last or second-to-last rows on these old widebody planes, the seats don't recline all the way in the last row, which makes the people sitting there more apt to kick your seat all the way to Amsterdam. Or worse.

 

If your flight is on any of the newer planes, it will be perfectly fine. And if you fly Delta, Continental, or NorthWest regularly and are a member of one of their frequent flyer programs, you can get miles from your KLM flight credited to your account.

 

By the way, United has been flying in Chapter 11 for over three years now, so I wouldn't necessarily worry about Delta closing up shop overnight.

[SandyR5]

Leela - Thanks for that information. I'm sure that whatever plane they show now will not necessarily be the plane that we'll fly on next November...if we choose KLM.

 

JoeyandDavid - We're talking about $600 roundtrip from JFK - NY. That's including taxes and fees. :)

[Kate-AHF]

We chose KLM, they were actually cheaper for us than Delta. And we get to change in Amsterdam. By staying one more day (at the Rome Airport Hilton -our departure point, we fly into Venice) this route worked for us. The money we saved by staying an extra day and flying out early MORE than paid for the hotel. I'll do just about anything to avoid CDG, and our layover in Amsterdam is 1.45 hours. I personally like that.

[SandyR5]

Hi Kate - I'm confused. Sorry. ;) First of all, where is CDG? Second, were you flying from Rome to Venice? Thanks, I know you're trying to help me out, but it's just not clear. We're trying to get to Venice from New York and home from Barcelona.

[Kate-AHF]

I'm so sorry I wasn't clear. It IS confusing.

 

We are flying from Dulles to Venice in August of 06, then departing from Rome. CDG is Charles deGaulle in Paris. I hated the airport in the 80's and 90's, and don't expect it to have changed much since then. Some folks like it. The departure times for all the less expensive flights were too early for us to make. By delaying one day, and getting an early flight out of Rome, we saved a lot of money, and avoided an airport I hate.

 

The departure times from Barcelona may work far better for you.

[SandyR5]

Kate - Thanks for clearing that up. :)

[cabo de hornos]

Hey Sandy, Cabo here -

 

Fares notwithstanding (we're using DL miles) - we've "finalized" our flights now for our CruiseTour this trip. We're going out non-stop on DL from ATL to Milan for the Tour portion, then train to Venice to meet the Millie. We're coming back after an extra day in Barcelona via DL 75 (leaves BCN at 10:40 am to JFK, arriving at 1:10 pm, then on to ATL). DL offered me an AF flight through CDG, then direct to ATL, for less miles, but I declined, citing horror stories on CC about CDG and AF. The only other time I've flown across the pond was 20 years ago in mid-April, to Cairo and back through Amsterdam's Schipohl (sp?) on KLM of all things. It was a 747 as I recall, and was crunched a bit in a three-seat port-side coach row by my two next door neighbors, one of the few rows that was full. On the way back I had business class - much better. Both ways - the hot towels on wake-up were quite refreshing. The service was fine. Schipohl was a lovely airport then - I got a chance to see much of the terminal to change planes. Where else can you find rows and rows of tulips for sale in an airport? So foggy that I didn't see any of Europe until the Croatian coast.

 

I would imagine BCN to JFK would be pretty convenient for you Sandy, but since they want extra miles at this time, it's possible the fare would be somewhat higher for this flight than for the AF sortie. HTH.

 

Cabo

[Tatka]

There is a casino in Schiphol.. My DH won 180 Euro..

 

And Rembrandt's replicas in the restrooms :D It's a cool airport.

 

On the other note we did fly on that Douglas aircraft. My DH and DS were sitting next to window (It was 2-5-2), and I had to sit in the middle near huge guy from Holland. ( it was too close, guy was basically sleeping on my shoulder)

 

DH and DS were LOL, but nothing we could do as my not so small DH wouldn't fit near that huge guy, and DS didn't want to sit by himself! I was ready to kill them both!!!

[joeyanddavid]

Leela - Thanks for that information. I'm sure that whatever plane they show now will not necessarily be the plane that we'll fly on next November...if we choose KLM.

 

JoeyandDavid - We're talking about $600 roundtrip from JFK - NY. That's including taxes and fees. :)

Yeah when I saw the fares last i saw 583 and wondered how to get to JFK cheap enough, but yeah.. I dont know if you can do much better.. Its gonna be an awesome cruise!

[florisdekort]

KLM is a great airline, excellent service, excellent meals, free wine and free cocktails in all classes, free newspapers and magazines, and so on. Their Boeing 777 is the best, it has in seat video with 50+ movies on demand that you can start, stop, fast forward, etc. Their MD11 (to which a previous poster refers) is NOT the old DC10, it is a brand new aircraft launched the same year the Boeing 777 was launched, but it looks like the DC10 with a third engine in the tail. There is an easy way to recoginize them: the newer MD11 has wingtips, the DC10 has not. KLM does not have in seat video in the MD11 though, but the service is just as great. And Amsterdam Schiphol is a very convenient hub. Seating in the MD11 is 2-5-3, seating in the 777 is 3-3-3, seating in the 747 is 3-4-3.

 

Delta: no in seat video, no free alcohol, no free newspapers/magazines, and cabins that haven't been updated for as long as their 767s have been flying, which is 15+ years. And yes, Chapter 11 and loosing a whopping $3 billion (!) per year for the past 2 years straight. United never went that far in the red. Seating in the 767 is 2-3-2.

 

Best Regards,

Floris

[Ine]

As far as I know KLM hardly flies anymore with MD-11. Those services are now flown with 777 or the newest Airbus. Each seat has its own DVD with movies, games etc. In 747 there are general screens.

Only if you have a flight flown by Northwest (can be possible due to the code-share) you might fly in an NW DC 10, but also NW has new airbuses!

If your flightnumber has 4 digits (KL 605 if KL, but NW 8605 is KLM - KL 6039 is flown by NW) service is by the other airline.

 

Schiphol airport had only 1 terminal, lots of taxfree shops of all kinds, also a small Rijksmuseum and the nice casino.

Luggage probably will be agged to the final destination.

[SandyR5]

Thanks to all who posted and a VERY HAPPY NEW YEAR to all. I'm going to check prices in a little while and I think we'll go with KLM. Now we just have to decide if we're going day of cruise or day before. KLM flight arrives in Venice around 12:30 p.m. Want to check to see if other KLM flights arrive later...in case there's a problem with our connection. Wouldn't want to spend the night in Amsterdam instead of on the ship...although I'm sure Amsterdam would be great. :)

[Ine]

To be sure, you better arrive 1 day earlier.

No stress, no jetlag.

[ocngypz]

Before booking, watch the return times from BCN... and the connecting times in Paris and Amsterdam. Amsterdam is easy to negotiate. Paris is NOT. Plan a minimum 3 hr layover in Paris to be on the safe side.

[SandyR5]

Hi everyone - Thanks for all your opinions. We booked KLM and connect through Amsterdam. Heard about Paris and wouldn't fly AirFrance anyhow. The prices and times were great. Only thing better would have been direct flights, but, can't have everything. ;)

[joeyanddavid]

Glad you got it worked out.. care to share the cost?

[SandyR5]

$645 pp includes all fees/taxes. Arrive Venice 11:15 a.m. Leave Barcelona the day AFTER we disembark at 12:10 p.m.

[joeyanddavid]

EXCELLENT.............nice congrats

[Leela]

Their MD11 (to which a previous poster refers) is NOT the old DC10, it is a brand new aircraft launched the same year the Boeing 777 was launched, but it looks like the DC10 with a third engine in the tail.

 

Airliners.net says it's a modernized and slightly stretched version of the DC10. Thanks for clearing that up. I thought the 777 came out in 1995, but then I realized that was merely the year that United started using them. All I can say is that if you're going to spend 11 hours in a plane (that's approximately the time from San Francisco to Amsterdam), going in one that doesn't have seat back video is horrible!

[katiebeth]

Dear Floris,

 

You seem to be very knowledgable about the airlines. What do you know about Air France? Unfortunatley, I booked them for our Med. cruise next summer on the Millie leaving Barcelona. They had a good rate on business class fare and I purchased our tickets prior to really researching the airline. Normally, I plan very carefully, but got in a hurry because I didn't want to lose the good rate. Since then, I have read not very good things about the service provided on Air France and terrible things about CDG. I had no idea that CDG is so awful. We have a only 70 minutes to make our connection. We live in Tallahassee, Fl. and will be flying through Atlanta. Sounds like KLM is a good airline. I wish I would have researched a little more.

 

Sandy.. You indicated that you would not fly Air France. Is that based on personal experience on the airline or what you have heard?

 

Anyway, I am hoping for the best. I have heard from some on these boards that they were satisfied with their Air France experience and were able to negotiate CDG o.k. Next time, based on what I have read, I think I will try to avoid transfering in Paris.

 

Thanks,

 

Nancy

[SandyR5]

Hi Nancy - Two reasons for not flying AirFrance. One is CDG airport and the other is France's anti-American attitude.

[Leela]

I've flown Air France in coach a couple of times and have no complaints with the airline itself. I find their service to be more professional than any of the US-based airlines. I've never experienced any kind of "anti-American" attitude, and the last time I flew was during the height of the post-invasion nastiess when some Americans were going around calling the French "cheese-eating surrender monkeys." Air France owns a big chunk of KLM, by the way.

 

It's Charles de Gaulle airport that I strongly dislike. The terminal is a little confusing, parts of it seem to me like a shopping mall with hallways going off to the planes, and if you're in a hurry to make a connection you might have more difficulties finding your way. And if you have to go fast to make it, there's people browsing and shopping in the way. Then, when you get to your gate, you have to wait in line to go through another set of security screening, and then you're held in the gate area. I don't recall if you can go in and out -- I think if you go out you have to do the security thing again -- so easy trips to the bathroom are out. And the snack bar I remember outside the gate area is pretty crummy, although they do sell bottled water. And, if you don't get to that secure gate area a certain number of minutes before your flight, they might deny you boarding. Worse yet is that if you have to change terminals. It seems that CDG is perpetually under construction, so the shuttles from terminal to terminal move very slowly. Oh yes, and French workers have, by American standards, an alarming propensity to go on strike. So, the day you are there, there could be a baggage handler's strike, a food caterer's strike, a transit worker's strike, a pilot's strike, a flight attendant's strike, and so on. Last time I was in Paris it was the transit workers, so the airport was fine but getting to it was a nightmare. The time before it was the caterer's strike, so foreign-based planes had to fly all their food "round-trip" from their home countries, so meals on return trips were ickier than usual. Last time my husband was there, there was a very brief (ended up being under an hour) pilot's strike, and when it was first announced we were worried he wouldn't get home but somehow that one ended up getting resolve right away and his flights all went on time.

 

Cross your fingers and have a good time. They have great wine, bread, and cheese on Air France -- and that's back in coach.

[Ine]

I totally agree with Leela.

Air France is a good airline, only transferring in CDG can be disturbing.