Where in the world ?

[exlondoner]

1 minute ago, Host Hattie said:

Spain 😜

 

True...if slightly incomplete. 😀

[bluemarble]

1 hour ago, exlondoner said:

What country is Cartagena in?

 

As one of our dual ports, the other Cartagena is in Colombia (with an O). If that counts as being in Columbia (with a U), I'm fine with that. The names Columbia and Colombia are both derived from Christopher Columbus (Cristoforo Colombo) after all.

[exlondoner]

10 hours ago, bluemarble said:

 

As one of our dual ports, the other Cartagena is in Colombia (with an O). If that counts as being in Columbia (with a U), I'm fine with that. The names Columbia and Colombia are both derived from Christopher Columbus (Cristoforo Colombo) after all.

I think Cunard spelling is certainly eccentric enough to allow that, and, certainly, over here, the country has been spelt with a U in the past.

[ExArkie]

16 hours ago, bluemarble said:

 

As one of our dual ports, the other Cartagena is in Colombia (with an O). If that counts as being in Columbia (with a U), I'm fine with that. The names Columbia and Colombia are both derived from Christopher Columbus (Cristoforo Colombo) after all.

Curious - why is "Columbia" not being considered synonymous with the United States? It was used as early as the 1730s for the name of the colonies that later became the US. Other points to this:

• Columbia was the female personification of the US in illustrations until being replaced by Lady Liberty in the early 20th century.
• The official anthem/song for the Vice President of the United States is "Hail, Columbia."
• "Columbia, Gem of the Ocean" referred to the United States (popular in 19th century into the early part of the 20th).

Of course, there is also the District of Columbia, which is the designated region of federal government jurisdiction as specified in the Constitution. However, that should not be taken literally as suggesting a Cunard ship called in DC as a port. I'm pretty sure the 14th Street bridge is a bit low for one of the Queens.

[exlondoner]

6 hours ago, exlondoner said:

I think Cunard spelling is certainly eccentric enough to allow that, and, certainly, over here, the country has been spelt with a U in the past.

 

Actually, I've been thinking about this, and I'm not sure we ever did spell it with a U. Sorry about that.

[bluemarble]

30 minutes ago, ExArkie said:

Curious - why is "Columbia" not being considered synonymous with the United States? It was used as early as the 1730s for the name of the colonies that later became the US. Other points to this:

• Columbia was the female personification of the US in illustrations until being replaced by Lady Liberty in the early 20th century.
• The official anthem/song for the Vice President of the United States is "Hail, Columbia."
• "Columbia, Gem of the Ocean" referred to the United States (popular in 19th century into the early part of the 20th).

Of course, there is also the District of Columbia, which is the designated region of federal government jurisdiction as specified in the Constitution. However, that should not be taken literally as suggesting a Cunard ship called in DC as a port. I'm pretty sure the 14th Street bridge is a bit low for one of the Queens.

 

I like that explanation for Columbia referring to the entire United States. Somehow those details had slipped my recollection. Thanks for setting me straight.

[bluemarble]

I'm going to double-dip today by contributing these two Cunard ship names:

 

Batavia and Java

 

Cunard has visited the same port (Jakarta) to qualify both of those ships for our game. Batavia is an old name for Jakarta on the island of Java.

 

I don't see Jakarta on any of the past itineraries for the current Cunard fleet, but Jakarta is on QE's 2022 Sydney-Singapore itinerary. More to the point, I have found references to several of Cunard's past fleet having called at Batavia (Jakarta), Java.

[exlondoner]

I don't think I have yet had Ausonia, used by the Greeks to refer to Southern Italy, than in Latin poetry to all of Italy. Cunard seem to have had a couple.

[bluemarble]

My next contribution is Pavonia.

 

Pavonia the ship was launched in 1882, apparently used as a Boer War transport in 1899, then scrapped in 1900.

 

I've found Pavonia also refers to a settlement in the former Dutch colony of New Netherland on the west bank of the Hudson River in what is now the state of New Jersey. It appears to have included what are now the cities of Hoboken and Jersey City, both of which have been ports for Cunard ships in the past.

[bluemarble]

I've been learning a lot from our latest game about names for places and regions of the world that I did not know about before. Today I will add to that trend by contributing Scythia.

 

There were two ships named Scythia operated by Cunard, one from 1875 and one from 1921.

 

I've learned the region of Scythia dates from the 11th century BC to the 2nd century AD. Its territory covered the northern coast of the Black Sea including the Crimean peninsula which means the Cunard port of Yalta was part of Scythia. Most maps I've found of Scythia also include the Cunard port of Odessa and a few include Constanta as well.

[exlondoner]

Not from my own knowledge, but from my book, there was apparently a Teneriffe from 1853-9, which is all of a piece with Cunard's general standard of spelling. Have there been any calls at ports in Laconia, which we may take in the side sense as the area of Greece south of the Isthmus of Corinth?

[exlondoner]

Katakolon would count, I think.

[bluemarble]

24 minutes ago, exlondoner said:

Katakolon would count, I think.

 

The maps I'm seeing of Laconia do not show it extending along the west coast of the Peloponnese as far north as Katakolon. They show Katakolon in a province called Elis. Now of course the boundaries of Laconia may have shifted over time such that it could have included Katakolon at some point. That would certainly be the case if you've found a reference to Laconia covering to entire Peloponnese peninsula.

 

Otherwise I'm coming up empty finding a current Cunard port in Lanconia. Of course that doesn't preclude some past Cunard ship having called at a port that we might be able to verify as definitely being in Laconia.

[exlondoner]

1 hour ago, bluemarble said:

 

The maps I'm seeing of Laconia do not show it extending along the west coast of the Peloponnese as far north as Katakolon. They show Katakolon in a province called Elis. Now of course the boundaries of Laconia may have shifted over time such that it could have included Katakolon at some point. That would certainly be the case if you've found a reference to Laconia covering to entire Peloponnese peninsula.

 

Otherwise I'm coming up empty finding a current Cunard port in Lanconia. Of course that doesn't preclude some past Cunard ship having called at a port that we might be able to verify as definitely being in Laconia.

 

Certainly, as a classicist, I would assume Laconia, or probably Lakedaimon, could be used to refer to the whole of the Peloponnese. Is that a synecdoche? Part for whole? I'm sticking with Katakolon.

[bluemarble]

31 minutes ago, exlondoner said:

Certainly, as a classicist, I would assume Laconia, or probably Lakedaimon, could be used to refer to the whole of the Peloponnese. Is that a synecdoche? Part for whole? I'm sticking with Katakolon.

 

OK, that works for me.

[bluemarble]

My next contribution is Ultonia.

 

SS Ultonia's maiden voyage as a passenger ship was 1899. She was sunk by a U-boat in 1917.

 

My research tells me Ultonia is a Latinized form of Ulster, so Belfast would qualify as a Cunard port in Ultonia.

[exlondoner]

46 minutes ago, bluemarble said:

My next contribution is Ultonia.

 

SS Ultonia's maiden voyage as a passenger ship was 1899. She was sunk by a U-boat in 1917.

 

My research tells me Ultonia is a Latinized form of Ulster, so Belfast would qualify as a Cunard port in Ultonia.

 

Wow. 

[ExArkie]

21 hours ago, exlondoner said:

 

Certainly, as a classicist, I would assume Laconia, or probably Lakedaimon, could be used to refer to the whole of the Peloponnese. Is that a synecdoche? Part for whole? I'm sticking with Katakolon.

Anyone who uses "synecdoche" correctly automatically wins the argument, whatever the topic.

[exlondoner]

1 hour ago, ExArkie said:

Anyone who uses "synecdoche" correctly automatically wins the argument, whatever the topic.

😀 Have I? I'm hopeless at figures of speech. Brilliant at Latin grammar, poor at figures of speech.

[bluemarble]

I've been researching the origin of the name Alaunia. I'm not finding much of anything that qualifies that name for our game here other than it could refer to the town of Valognes, France about 20km south of Cherbourg (close but no cigar).

 

However, during my search I found this old article from 1914 in The Daily Colonist newspaper of Victoria, British Columbia. I thought this might be of some general interest in the context of our game that a Canadian newspaper published this article over 100 years ago explaining how Cunard ships were named.

 

====================

 

The Daily Colonist

VICTORIA, VANCOUVER ISLAND, BRITISH COLUMBIA, FRIDAY, JULY 24, 1914

 

NAME SOURCES FOR CUNARD STEAMSHIPS

 

Vessels Comprising Fleet of Great Transportation Concern Are Called After Geographical Areas or Places.

 

     Whilst geographical names are freely made use of by shipowners, this form of nomenclature in fact being amongst the most popular sources from which ships’ names are derived, it is not generally known that the Cunard fleet, many of which bear rather peculiar names are all called after geographical areas or places, though in some instances the old Latin forms are used instead of the modern appellation. It has often been a matter of wonderment to the uninitiated where such names as Aquitania, Lusitania and Andania, etc., were obtained, and for this reason it is interesting to note that Aquitania is the ancient Latin name of the most southwestern of the three divisions of Gaul. Lusitania was a Roman province roughly corresponding with modern Portugal, Morocco and Western Algeria were once known as Mauretania, Carmania was a great province of Asia lying north of the Persian Gulf, Campania in ancient geography a region in Italy, Carpathia is obviously derived from the Carpathian Mountains, Pannonia was a great northeastern province of the Roman Empire. The steamer Ultonia takes its name from Ulster, Ultonia being the Latinized version, Saxonia is a Latinized name formed Saxon, Ivernia is one of the ancient forms of Ireland, Laconia a name generally applied to southeastern corner of Greece, Franconia is a loosely connected aggregate of districts and territories lying chiefly in the basins of the Rhine, the Main and the Neckar. All these names are of vessels plying elsewhere than to Montreal, but the same scheme of nomenclature has been carried out on vessels calling at Canadian ports, Alaunia taking her name from a variety of sources, Alaunia being a town, Alaunia the name of an ancient people found both in Asia and Europe, or Alaunia the Celtic name of a river in Roman Britain. The Andania was called after an ancient town in Peloponnesia, Ascania is an island in the Greek Archipelago as well as of a region around a lake In Asia Minor, whilst Ausonia is a town In Italy as well as the ancient name of Italy.

 

     To source original names, no easy task In these days of thousands of vessels, the Cunard Line delved Into ancient history, but by so doing obtained for their vessels names which at least are original and for the most part totally unlikely to be confused with those of other lines.

[sfred]

9 minutes ago, bluemarble said:

However, during my search I found this old article from 1914 in The Daily Colonist newspaper of Victoria, British Columbia. I thought this might be of some general interest in the context of our game that a Canadian newspaper published this article over 100 years ago explaining how Cunard ships were named.

 

11 minutes ago, bluemarble said:

   "To source original names, no easy task In these days of thousands of vessels, the Cunard Line delved Into ancient history, but by so doing obtained for their vessels names which at least are original and for the most part totally unlikely to be confused with those of other lines."

 

Very interesting, thanks @bluemarble.  I wonder what the "Daily Colonist" would speculate for the new 4th ship name. 

[Host Hattie]

This thread is certainly very educational, thanks for keeping it going.

Are we almost out of names ?

[exlondoner]

10 hours ago, sfred said:

 

 

Very interesting, thanks @bluemarble.  I wonder what the "Daily Colonist" would speculate for the new 4th ship name. 

 

Indeed, most interesting. Even then, they could have called it: Why Cunard ships have crazy names.

[exlondoner]

58 minutes ago, Host Hattie said:

This thread is certainly very educational, thanks for keeping it going.

Are we almost out of names ?

 

I certainly am. I shall contribute the simplest and in some ways most improbable: England. Cunard used this ship from 1983-6 for a British govt contract to do with the building of a new airport on the Falklands.

[bluemarble]

6 hours ago, Host Hattie said:

This thread is certainly very educational, thanks for keeping it going.

Are we almost out of names ?

 

I am definitely running low on names. I'll look for some more later today, but this may be my last one and it's a stretch. Submitted for consideration today is Abyssinia.

 

SS Abyssinia was a Cunard liner from 1870 to 1880.

 

My attempt to establish a tenuous link between Abyssinia and a port visited by a Cunard ship involves the port of Massawa during World War II. Abyssinia includes the modern-day countries of Ethiopia and Eritrea. The latter includes the port of Massawa.

 

One reference I've found to Cunard and Massawa is on "birtwistlewiki.com.au" which says HMT (His Majesty's Transport) Queen Mary and HMT Aquitania were part of a convoy from Suez to Fremantle via Massawa and the Maldive Islands, 24 January - 18 February 1943.

 

Quoting from that website:

 

"On 24 Jan 1943 the [Australian 2/28th] battalion embarked on HMT Queen Mary for Fremantle. The Operation Pamphlet convoy comprised HMT Queen Mary, HMT Aquitania, SS Île de France, SS Nieuw Amsterdam, and HMT Queen of Bermuda. Port Tewfik couldn't handle them all at once so in sequence they loaded, sailed down the Red Sea to Massawa where they anchored until all of the convoy had loaded. The Queen Mary, also carrying the 2/32nd Battalion was there for a week before it was able to set sail for Australia."