Florida wins so Carnival can sail with kids

[broberts]

26 minutes ago, Joebucks said:

 

Most measures have fallen apart when the proof is examined. There's a reason why the mask mandate largely went away. Not because we decide to combat a deadly virus with an honor system, but because a virus that is in aerosol form is not stopped by a piece of cloth on your face.

 

...

 

That simply is not true and there are numerous studies where the data supports the conclusion that mask wearing does reduce transmission. 

 

I'm not going to bother reposting links because by this point in time anyone believing the quote is simply going to ignore the data.

 

 

 

Edited June 19, 2021 by broberts

[BlerkOne]

When the covid lawsuits start hitting the cruise lines, they may rethink their policies. Can you smell that freedom through those masks?

 

Cruise lines can certainly set their own rules, and now are 100% accountable for them.

[lobster1313]

15 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Any number is arbitrary. Herd immunity is not defined by a percent vaccinated. That is science.

No Science is repeatability. They need to be able to prove their conclusions with supporting data which they have failed to produce.

[Heartgrove]

33 minutes ago, arkaine23 said:

Getting crewed up is proving difficult and they are vulnerable.   Lots of pre-pandemic crew aren't coming back.  So they're training new people.  They have to be quarantined and vaccinated and that takes time for effectiveness.  Meanwhile if there's 1000-2000 crew aboard, an operation-ending 1% outbreak threshhold is only 10-20.  8 positive cases is no joke.

 

Word is that they let the crew off the ship in Miami before the 14 day quarantine was up. Lots of revenue lost due to that decision.

[BlerkOne]

2 minutes ago, regoodwinjr said:

No Science is repeatability. They need to be able to prove their conclusions with supporting data which they have failed to produce.

They have all the data they need from the cruises in Europe. It is current and repeatable.

[lobster1313]

3 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

They have all the data they need from the cruises in Europe. It is current and repeatable.

Yes. Except the only data they presented was a year old.

Edited June 19, 2021 by regoodwinjr

[BlerkOne]

3 minutes ago, regoodwinjr said:

Yes. Except the only data they presented was a year old.

They will have current supporting data before July 2. The judge even said either side could come back with new evidence to be considered.

 

"Additionally, if circumstances materially change at any time, either party can request a hearing to modify this injunction, a hearing will occur immediately (within twenty-four hours, if necessary), and an order resolving the motion will issue immediately."

[bdever]

2 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

They have all the data they need from the cruises in Europe. It is current and repeatable.

Yes! Carnival has its brands running successfully in Europe with unvaccinated protocols for all passengers. I’m really happy with Carnival’s decisions so far on the implementation of protocols for the resumption of cruises out of the US and while hopefully the CDC & Florida are able to compromise in Mediation and the CDC can come up with relaxed guidelines to the CSO, I believe Carnival’s experience & data from European sailings as well as putting the framework in place on protocols for the restart of cruising in the US strongly suggests Carnival will stay its course in the meantime. 

[lobster1313]

3 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

They will have current supporting data before July 2. The judge even said either side could come back with new evidence to be considered.

 

"Additionally, if circumstances materially change at any time, either party can request a hearing to modify this injunction, a hearing will occur immediately (within twenty-four hours, if necessary), and an order resolving the motion will issue immediately."

If the data existed to support their numbers it would have been presented at the first two hearings.  

Edited June 19, 2021 by regoodwinjr

[TNcruising02]

9 minutes ago, regoodwinjr said:

Yes. Except the only data they presented was a year old.

I don't think they want to produce real world current data because then the country will see their ridiculous mask rules didn't stop the pandemic in the way they are hoping people believe.  I look forward to seeing their current studies of the transmission with vaccines, testing, and treatments.

[bdever]

Not sure if the CDC will present European cruise data to back up their arguments though as In doesn’t that fall outside of their jurisdiction? But oh man, it would be amazing if they did because of the breadth & depth of that data is fantastic 

[BlerkOne]

4 minutes ago, regoodwinjr said:

If the data existed to support their numbers it would have been presented at the first two hearings.  

Try to apply current data to a year old CSO? I wonder how that would fly.  I also wonder if CDC will be replacing their lawyers. Naw. Better for the CDC to start with a clean slate with fresh data.

[BlerkOne]

5 minutes ago, bdever said:

Not sure if the CDC will present European cruise data to back up their arguments though as In doesn’t that fall outside of their jurisdiction? But oh man, it would be amazing if they did because of the breadth & depth of that data is fantastic 

Data is data. Including compliance of Europeans with simple instructions.

[Radiioman46]

1 minute ago, BlerkOne said:

" to a year old CSO?" 

That's why the Judge was correct in scapping it. 

[BlerkOne]

7 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

I don't think they want to produce real world current data because then the country will see their ridiculous mask rules didn't stop the pandemic in the way they are hoping people believe.  I look forward to seeing their current studies of the transmission with vaccines, testing, and treatments.

Masks do work. What doesn't work is Americans complying with simple instructions.

[BlerkOne]

Just now, Radiioman46 said:

That's why the Judge was correct in scapping it. 

and telling the cruise lines how to correct it, and giving them time to do so.

[Radiioman46]

Just now, BlerkOne said:

Masks do work. What doesn't work is Americans complying with simple instructions.

That's all some ppl have. Just trash Americans. LOL!

[lobster1313]

Just now, BlerkOne said:

Try to apply current data to a year old CSO? I wonder how that would fly.  I also wonder if CDC will be replacing their lawyers. Naw. Better for the CDC to start with a clean slate with fresh data.

Hopefully they're more willingly to work with Florida to come to a number that's acceptable to both but Florida may not be as willing to compromise.

[BlerkOne]

Just now, Radiioman46 said:

That's all some ppl have. Just trash Americans. LOL!

Just an observation. They do it to themselves. They want to be treated as adults and then ignore all personal responsibility and accountability.

[BlerkOne]

1 minute ago, regoodwinjr said:

Hopefully they're more willingly to work with Florida to come to a number that's acceptable to both but Florida may not be as willing to compromise.

The issue is Florida is unwilling to compromise. That will come back to bite them. You know cruise lines won't be held hostage again.

[Radiioman46]

1 minute ago, BlerkOne said:

Just an observation. They do it to themselves. They want to be treated as adults and then ignore all personal responsibility and accountability.

Where you from anyway? I thought you were an American. 

[monykalyn]

2 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Masks do work. What doesn't work is Americans complying with simple instructions.

so bad people=no masks so all those "good people" who got covid while 100% compliant were what? just unlucky?

Way way easier to blame "bad people" than simple fact an AIRBORN virus wasn't going to be stopped by a simple mask. period. And why did those "bad people" not get flu either? Why did the "good people" STILL go through a viral peak (ie the perfect calfornia under the god known as Newsom?) Ventilation does wonders to disperse virus though. Guess what cruise ships did? Upgraded ventilation. See they learned from last year, updated their ships. CDC however insists on staying in March 2020.

[BlerkOne]

2 minutes ago, Radiioman46 said:

Where you from anyway? I thought you were an American. 

I am. An independent American and not some cult member.

[lobster1313]

1 minute ago, BlerkOne said:

The issue is Florida is unwilling to compromise. That will come back to bite them. You know cruise lines won't be held hostage again.

Only one that felt that way was NCL.  The cruiselines were only held hostage by the CDC not allowing children as an exception to the 95%.

[BlerkOne]

2 minutes ago, monykalyn said:

so bad people=no masks so all those "good people" who got covid while 100% compliant were what? just unlucky?

 

Misinformation spread intentionally or unintentionally that masks protect the wearer. No, masks help protect other people from the mask wearer. Nothing is 100% effective which is why a multi-layer approach was and is needed.