Flight Advice Needed

[rbslos18]

My airline saga continues with a new time change. Just when I seem to have a good itinerary, a change or cancellation takes place.

 

We are going from SDF-FCO in late December. Our current Delta itinerary got changed.  a

SDF- DTW  (DL) (four hour layover--departing at 1:00PM)

DTW-AMS (DL) Flight time change now has the connection time being 1 hour and 20 minutes (Delta has a warning the layover in AMS may be too short).:

AMS-FCO on KLM

 

An alternative approach is:

SDF- DTW at 6:19PM with a 1 hour and 20 minute layover

DTW-CDG (Air France) 2 hour and 5 minute time to connect to

CDG-AMS (Air France)

Which itinerary would you choose. The first has the short layover in AMS. The second itinerary has just 1 hour and 20 minutes in DTW (is this wise in the Winter?) and uses CDG.

I am so appreciative of your advice.

[FlyerTalker]

I'm on the first one.  Reasons:

 

Gives me the longer connect in the USA, where there are fewer onward flight options.

 

Other options across the pond if your flight to AMS goes MX (mechanical)

 

Lots of alternatives from AMS. KLM has five daily non-stops, plus you can get a reroute through CDG if needed (as KL and AF are part of the same ownership).

 

Second option is last flight out from DTW, so if you miss that, you are stuck in the USA overnight.

 

Quick thought:  Ain't cruiseline air wonderful -- too bad they won't book you on paid ticket DL itineraries with 3 hour connects on both ends of the TATL flight.  Oh well....

[rbslos18]

44 minutes ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

 

Quick thought:  Ain't cruiseline air wonderful -- too bad they won't book you on paid ticket DL itineraries with 3 hour connects on both ends of the TATL flight.  Oh well....

True. But I started with much better connection times! The airlines are wreaking havoc! I like your logic and will keep the first itinerary until another change occurs! Thanks!

Edited August 29, 2021 by rbslos18

[FlyerTalker]

BTW, I'm not meaning to be "piling on".  You've had more than your shade of challenges with your flights.

 

My main message is that cruiseline air may have some attractive features, including price, but that this comes with a cost.  If everything goes as booked, all is well.  But if schedules change, or if there are operational difficulties along the way, you may lose out on some of the flexibility you would have had by buying the ticket directly.  And other factors.

 

Not automatically saying all cruiseline air is bad - just be a knowledgeable consumer when you make your purchases.

 

Good luck now.

[rbslos18]

3 hours ago, FlyerTalker said:

BTW, I'm not meaning to be "piling on".  You've had more than your shade of challenges with your flights.

 

My main message is that cruiseline air may have some attractive features, including price, but that this comes with a cost.  If everything goes as booked, all is well.  But if schedules change, or if there are operational difficulties along the way, you may lose out on some of the flexibility you would have had by buying the ticket directly.  And other factors.

 

Not automatically saying all cruiseline air is bad - just be a knowledgeable consumer when you make your purchases.

 

Good luck now.

I fully agree. In this case the pricing is not better but given the pandemic it was less risky should we decide to cancel.

[FlyerTalker]

33 minutes ago, rbslos18 said:

I fully agree. In this case the pricing is not better but given the pandemic it was less risky should we decide to cancel.

 

Hmmm....since Delta policy is that any credits are good through the end of 2022.  And change fees have been eliminated.

 

If we're not traveling by the end of next year, I'd posit that we have much bigger problems, both individually and as a nation, than the loss of those credits.

[rbslos18]

Well...my entire itinerary just got changed. Now I'm SDF-IAD-MUC-FCO via United with only a one hour layover in Washington and Munich. Wasn't the Delta option of SDF-DTW-AMS-FCO better? This is my 9th or 10th itinerary change.

[Zach1213]

28 minutes ago, rbslos18 said:

Well...my entire itinerary just got changed. Now I'm SDF-IAD-MUC-FCO via United with only a one hour layover in Washington and Munich. Wasn't the Delta option of SDF-DTW-AMS-FCO better? This is my 9th or 10th itinerary change.

 

Jesus...

 

Okay, the good news? Munich is one of the, if not the, most efficient airports in Europe. Even clearing Schengen, one hour is probably enough without delays. I still wouldn't want it...

 

One hour at Dulles during what I assume is the evening rush going on to a longhaul international flight? Yeah, no thanks...

[FlyerTalker]

Wanna know what I suspect?  You aren't even ticketed for any of these flights, and your "reserved" places on the flights you "have" are being moved from you to someone else where they can't accommodate elsewise.

 

Are your most recent DL flights still showing as being operated?  (Don't use either cruiseline or airline websites to check, as they look for available flights, not just operated).  Matrix would tell you.  And if they still are, how about getting on the phone and saying "Why did you move me from an operating itinerary without my consent?"

 

Of course, I (and Zach and others) could look it up, but without dates, times, flight numbers and cities -- well, you know.

 

Have you considered telling the cruiseline to stuff it, and just buying a ticket on your own?  I know I would have a half-dozen changes ago.

[rbslos18]

30 minutes ago, FlyerTalker said:

Wanna know what I suspect?  You aren't even ticketed for any of these flights, and your "reserved" places on the flights you "have" are being moved from you to someone else where they can't accommodate elsewise.

 

Are your most recent DL flights still showing as being operated?  (Don't use either cruiseline or airline websites to check, as they look for available flights, not just operated).  Matrix would tell you.  And if they still are, how about getting on the phone and saying "Why did you move me from an operating itinerary without my consent?"

 

Of course, I (and Zach and others) could look it up, but without dates, times, flight numbers and cities -- well, you know.

 

Have you considered telling the cruiseline to stuff it, and just buying a ticket on your own?  I know I would have a half-dozen changes ago.

Thanks. I’m on it!

[rbslos18]

This is fascinating and frustrating. The new itinerary was generated by a computer because of an unacceptable connection time. So as we saw the replacement time was worse. So...I reached an excellent agent at Viking Air Plus who agreed the replacement was unacceptable. He now has me flying SDF-ORD-FRA-FCO with layovers of 3 hours. The itinerary is with Lufthansa. The problem seems to be solved for now until the 11th itinerary change!

LUF 9133, 431,232

 

Thanks again for your wise counsel.

[Zach1213]

1 hour ago, rbslos18 said:

This is fascinating and frustrating. The new itinerary was generated by a computer because of an unacceptable connection time. So as we saw the replacement time was worse. So...I reached an excellent agent at Viking Air Plus who agreed the replacement was unacceptable. He now has me flying SDF-ORD-FRA-FCO with layovers of 3 hours. The itinerary is with Lufthansa. The problem seems to be solved for now until the 11th itinerary change!

LUF 9133, 431,232

 

Thanks again for your wise counsel.

 

I look forward to your post later today with a schedule change where you'll be going through Houston, Quito, Wellington, and Kolkata. 🙂

 

Frankfurt is just about as easy as Munich as far as connections go. I personally prefer Munich a bit more, but three hours in Frankfurt will find you with two hours of sitting around bored. Or, like me, watching planes. 

[rbslos18]

Just now, Zach1213 said:

 

I look forward to your post later today with a schedule change where you'll be going through Houston, Quito, Wellington, and Kolkata. 🙂

 

 

That's exactly what my wife said! At least with ORD there are multiple options and of course weather delays!!!

[herbanrenewal]

I read this with interest since I'm currently on version 7 of my flight plans. Little did i know in 2019 that accepting a transfer of flights from one year to the next would make me unable to have any say in future changes - having "accepted a voucher" i am at the mercy of the airlines. My business class with one connection has been downgraded to 2 connections, and they moved my start of travel date forward by 23.5 hours. My latest gift from united (which we now have no flights on - its all partner airlines) has us flying air canada home and the leg from Toronto to Washington is no longer business class - that's assuming we make it since the connection in Frankfurt is only 62 minutes.

I will apparently be flying air brussels in 2 1/2 weeks ... i no longer have any faith that any of my long-awaited plans will be what I expected. 

On the positive side we had planned a week pre-cruise before 2 week river cruise, then a week after in Amsterdam, so hopefully the river cruise will be intact. And being retired if it takes longer - well, i figure we will eventually get home again.

 

 

[FlyerTalker]

8 minutes ago, herbanrenewal said:

I read this with interest since I'm currently on version 7 of my flight plans. Little did i know in 2019 that accepting a transfer of flights from one year to the next would make me unable to have any say in future changes - having "accepted a voucher" i am at the mercy of the airlines.

 

You sound like you are describing cruiseline provide air.  Because if you had a ticket direct from the airline, you would have gotten flight credits that could be used for any other flight.  If that's so, you bought a bulk ticket that had significant restrictions.  And taking a cruiseline offered "voucher" means you are now at the mercy of the cruiseline's policies and restrictions.

 

So you are not at the "mercy of the airlines".  You are at the mercy of the cruiseline air department.  So let's keep that straight.

 

16 minutes ago, herbanrenewal said:

My latest gift from united (which we now have no flights on - its all partner airlines) has us flying air canada home and the leg from Toronto to Washington is no longer business class - that's assuming we make it since the connection in Frankfurt is only 62 minutes.

I will apparently be flying air brussels in 2 1/2 weeks ... i no longer have any faith that any of my long-awaited plans will be what I expected.

 

Well, since you give us no dates, no routes, no flight numbers -- all we have is a  one-sided rant.  And a complete inability for anyone to give you information to assist you.

 

And if that's a bit blunt, well yes it is.

[Zach1213]

21 minutes ago, herbanrenewal said:

My latest gift from united (which we now have no flights on - its all partner airlines) has us flying air canada home and the leg from Toronto to Washington is no longer business class - that's assuming we make it since the connection in Frankfurt is only 62 minutes.

 

 

 

If this is a cruise line procured flight, I wouldn't necessarily blame United...besides, Air Canada and United are about as close as partners can get, so I wouldn't worry too much about that. 

Edited September 1, 2021 by Zach1213

[herbanrenewal]

53 minutes ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

You sound like you are describing cruiseline provide air.  Because if you had a ticket direct from the airline, you would have gotten flight credits that could be used for any other flight.  If that's so, you bought a bulk ticket that had significant restrictions.  And taking a cruiseline offered "voucher" means you are now at the mercy of the cruiseline's policies and restrictions.

 

So you are not at the "mercy of the airlines".  You are at the mercy of the cruiseline air department.  So let's keep that straight.

 

 

Well, since you give us no dates, no routes, no flight numbers -- all we have is a  one-sided rant.  And a complete inability for anyone to give you information to assist you.

 

And if that's a bit blunt, well yes it is.

I booked with a travel agent that i've dealt with for years. Unfortunately he died of covid in spring of 2019. There were of course restrictions on these tickets. My crystal ball failed to predict 3 years of cancellations, and after years of travel I never expected any of this. In future i will only book direct with airlines - lesson learned. Thanks for the positive support.

[em-sk]

On 9/1/2021 at 12:42 PM, herbanrenewal said:

My latest gift from united (which we now have no flights on - its all partner airlines) has us flying air canada home and the leg from Toronto to Washington is no longer business class - that's assuming we make it since the connection in Frankfurt is only 62 minutes.

 

 

 

 

The advantage of doing a connection on Air Canada in Toronto is in Toronto you will pre-clear US customs before boarding the flight.  The bags will also be automatically transferred through customers.  

 

It is probably one of the easiest International to International transfers in North America.