Lack of communication: recently cruised on America, though only 1 night of cruising and 3 nights docked back in port...

[Urbankmo]

Here is my recent review of the 5 day cruise on the Lower Mississippi on America, thought I would post here too, since there aren't many reviews: https://www.cruisecritic.com/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=683497

 

Happy to answer any questions. 

 

As I indicated,  due to low water levels, the cruise had to return to New Orleans for the last three nights of a four-night cruise. I was most disappointed in the fact that this was not communicated to us before embarkation, which struck me as odd, and then barely mentioned onboard. Had we been informed before the cruise, we might not have stayed an extra two nights in New Orleans after the cruise, as essentially we had three nights docked in New Orleans. Have others experienced this lack of communication? Also our cruise was supposed to be an Arts Immersion theme, yet it wasn't and that was also never communicated. 

[jimdee3636]

A very well-written and (seemingly) fair review of what must have been a disappointing experience. I realize that the water level is out of the cruise line's control (that's a big reason why I'm reluctant to do any river cruise, here or in Europe), but the other things you mentioned would give me pause about booking with this particular line.

[Host Jazzbeau]

3 hours ago, jimdee3636 said:

A very well-written and (seemingly) fair review of what must have been a disappointing experience. I realize that the water level is out of the cruise line's control (that's a big reason why I'm reluctant to do any river cruise, here or in Europe), but the other things you mentioned would give me pause about booking with this particular line.

You can minimize that risk by choosing a river that is controlled by locks – e.g. the Douro in Portugal.

[DaveinCharlotte]

On 12/9/2021 at 5:49 PM, jimdee3636 said:

I realize that the water level is out of the cruise line's control (that's a big reason why I'm reluctant to do any river cruise, here or in Europe),...

 

On 12/9/2021 at 9:04 PM, Host Jazzbeau said:

You can minimize that risk by choosing a river that is controlled by locks – e.g. the Douro in Portugal.

That makes sense.  Where (besides the Douro) in Europe would I look for cruises wholly in dam-controlled rivers, free from high/low water issues?

[Host Jazzbeau]

3 hours ago, DaveinCharlotte said:

 

That makes sense.  Where (besides the Douro) in Europe would I look for cruises wholly in dam-controlled rivers, free from high/low water issues?

I'm not the expert on this, and I don't think @notamermaid reads this forum.  Maybe this mention will get her attention.  The only other 'river' I know of that fits this description is the Main Canal, but that is not long enough to be an itinerary on its own so you also get the worst part of the Danube to its East.  You could also ask this question in the River Cruising forum.

[BaumD]

Did a Danube River cruise on Viking a few years ago. Hit a low area of the river. Viking has so many ships on the Danube we did a ship switch halfway through the cruise. The ship switch was almost seamless same cruise Director, same cabin just finished the cruise on a different ship.

[notamermaid]

@Host Jazzbeau Hello, our esteemed host on the River Cruising forum. You called? 🙂 Thank you for your trust and the suggestion that I may know quite a bit about this. Not sure but I will give it a try.

 

To the others reading: I am not a hydrology engineer or captain, just an enthusiast in Germany.

 

First of all, @Urbankmo I am sorry to read this, a real disappointment. After a disastrous season 2018 in Europe that was impacted by a long drought, there was much criticism of bad communication from the river cruise lines about low water problems. From my experience - and many others - the companies have improved in this since then. But the nature of the climate and weather patterns mean that sometimes a cruise line can only say a few hours in advance if a ship cannot sail under a bridge (flooding) or needs to amend an itinerary (drought or flooding). I have no idea how the Mississippi "works" but I have the impression that the communication should be better and at least the likelihood of disruptions could be communicated better.

 

@BaumD That is a tried and tested, very effective way of dealing with the low water. Like you here, many have expressed their satisfaction with this arrangement on the River Cruising forum.

 

If that is something a prospective river cruising traveller does not want, then the Danube is out. Which brings me to Dave. @DaveinCharlotte hello, a familiar name. Hope you are doing well. It is possible to do a river cruise in Europe on a river that is wholly a dam and lock system, the Douro has been mentioned. The navigable stretch of that river is controlled, the wilder upper Douro (Duero) in Spain is not sailed as such (generalisation here).

 

Basically, the idea is that controlled equals no problems, free flowing equals problems. That only partly works, so I will come back to this in more detail.

 

notamermaid

 

[DaveinCharlotte]

2 hours ago, notamermaid said:

 

It is possible to do a river cruise in Europe on a river that is wholly a dam and lock system, the Douro has been mentioned.

I am doing well, thank you.  Used to spend much time on the Europe rivers forums reading your numerous and helpful comments there...but have given up on Europe for now (covid reasons, mainly).

 

Yes, the Duoro has indeed been mentioned, but my question remains...just where else are these river cruises that are free from high/low water issues?  Maybe Nicco small-ship/small river cruises someplace?

[Host Jazzbeau]

@DaveinCharlotte you raise another good point about avoiding water issues:  the smaller the river ship, the longer it can sail in low (and maybe high) water conditions.  The older European river boats were 110m long; the new standard is 135m on most rivers – and these new ships also often have a deeper draft.  The length makes it harder to get around tight corners in the navigation channels, the depth means you always need more water to avoid bottoming out.

[Host Jazzbeau]

As to exactly which rivers are 'safe' for sailing:  the Duoro is the only one I do not recall ever hearing about water-level problems.  [The Elbe and the Loire have so little water that I don't even consider them.]  The Rhône in southern France doesn't seem to have low-water issues, but there is a low bridge at the North end of Lyon that can limit travel up the Sônne in high-water.  The Rhine has locks and generally doesn't suffer too badly – this year was an exception because of a storm that dislodged a gravel bank and blocked the navigation channel.  I have not heard about water-level issues on the Seine, or for the 'Tulip Time' cruises in the Netherlands/Belgium.  And one 'new' river for cruising – which I therefore don't really know anything about water issues – is the Magdalena in Columbia, which AmaWaterways will start sailing in 2023 with a purpose-built ship:

https://www.amawaterways.com/colombia

 

[notamermaid]

I am back and now on my computer, makes it a little easier to type and add links. So here goes.

1 hour ago, DaveinCharlotte said:

Maybe Nicco small-ship/small river cruises someplace?

 

1 hour ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

The older European river boats were 110m long; the new standard is 135m on most rivers – and these new ships also often have a deeper draft.

 

Thank you jazzbeau for pointing that out. Indeed, a smaller ship reduces the risk of issues in low water, Nicko has those vessels, Avalon Waterways has them, CroisiEurope only has up to 110m ships (on the rivers where others often sail with 135m ships). Two passenger level ships are a better bet in flooding where low bridges are, mostly on the Main but also an infamous one at Passau on the Danube. These are already many details for exceptions to the rule  and show that an answer is not that straightforward in the details.

 

I will separate this into high water and low water.

 

First: High Water in Europe - I think no river in Europe is immune to that (jazzbeau has the same impression) and depending on season, regulations by the authorities and low bridges, you could potentially be stopped in your tracks, i.e. sailing on any of the rivers. The Douro, being in the South of the Continent, is probably less prone to this, but I am not familiar with details. It is worth checking, perhaps through a travel agent? Or on this forum? Elsewhere? Overall, definitely the Douro is a relatively safe bet I should think.

 

The bigger issue in Europe and what can generally speaking be better controlled by dams and locks is low water. As jazzbeau said, the Douro is entirely controlled by locks on the section that is navigable (I admit I had to check this), but there are others. The Seine is one option and controlled by locks form Paris downstream. I am not sure how much the tide affects the maritime part of the Seine - not all ships go that far, again a 110m ship takes you further there than a larger one. For the Rhone I am not sure about drought but the locks and the depth make it relatively safe I should think. Jazzbeau has mentioned a bridge that is a problem in flooding. The Moselle is entirely controlled by locks in the area that river cruise ships go to except a tiny stretch at the mouth at Koblenz. This is only an issue when the river is really low. Unfortunately, the Moselle is not sailed on an in-depth itinerary that does not go onto the Rhine (unless it is bike & barge), so if you want to avoid low water sail Remich (or Trier) onto the Rhine North to Amsterdam. Caveat: when the water is very low, the famous Rhine Gorge as a little detour downstream is not sailed.

 

So, for an entirely controlled river the Danube, the Elbe, the Rhine are out, but on the Rhine you can do such an itinerary that keeps you out of the problem - jazzbeau said one possibility, the Tulip cruises. Often downstream from Cologne are Arosa's cruises to the Netherlands as a return trip. Works as well.

 

For a cruise on an entirely controlled river look to the Neckar, the Saar and

On 12/11/2021 at 5:47 PM, Host Jazzbeau said:

The only other 'river' I know of that fits this description is the Main Canal, but that is not long enough to be an itinerary on its own so you also get the worst part of the Danube to its East.

yes, the Main. jazzbeau means the Main Danube Canal. An itinerary that starts in Frankfurt (Main river) and goes to Nuremberg (Main Danube Canal) is entirely controlled by locks. You can add the bit that goes to Regensburg (another lock) on the Danube which is more or less a safe bet in drought. That is where your itinerary should end.

 

To put it into the geography "on the ground" what we have just discussed, have a look at the UNECE map of European waterways. You can see the dams and locks marked on the rivers and canals: https://unece.org/DAM/trans/main/sc3/AGN_map_2018.pdf

 

I wonder if something like that exists for the Americas?

 

@DaveinCharlotte have a good winter, hope to see you again next year on the river cruising board.

 

notamermaid

 

[notamermaid]

1 hour ago, notamermaid said:

Caveat: when the water is very low, the famous Rhine Gorge as a little detour downstream is not sailed.

Sorry, this should read upstream.

 

notamermaid

 

[DaveinCharlotte]

Very interesting map, notamermaid.  Have been looking for a "mainstream" cruise line that has a cruise that would entail 100% lock-controlled rivers.  Thought I'd found one - Viking has a "Paris to Prague" cruise that goes from Trier to Bamberg.  Your map seems to show that this would all be in lock-controlled water EXCEPT for the short segment between Koblenz and Mainz.  So "close but no cigar," I guess.