Toilet issues on Caribbean Princess

[Jersey42]

We were on the Caribbean Princess last week.  It is a ship we have been on many times in the past, and unlike a few posters who experienced their version of a "cruise from hell",  we really had an overall very good trip. One of the issues we had was a non or slow flushing toilet. Although we have experienced toilet issues on multiple cruises, it was a little different this time.  I am hoping @chengkp75 sees this post and can offer some insights on what the underlying problems may be. 

 

First, the symptoms - Sometimes the toilet would flush fine.  Other times it would gurgle for a while (1 - 20 minutes) before it flushed.  At least once it never flushed, but after we left the room we told the room steward. It was taken care of and was fine when we returned later in the day.  It was all just a minor annoyance for us.  In the few cases we knew we were going to "dump" a lot of human waste in the bowl, we would do a test flush, or just use a public restroom.  We never kept flushing, so we never had an overflow.

 

Cabin location and prior problems - We were in a starboard 700 series on Emerald deck.  This was the same location where there were similar problems in May.  See this link: https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2852275-live-caribbean-princess-may-14th/page/5/#comment-63250992  So I believe something may be going on beyond a passenger in a nearby cabin flushing the wrong items town their toilet.

 

Initial meeting with room steward - When we met the steward on day one, he gave us his number and told us to call him if we needed anything or "had toilet problems".  I have never had a room steward mention toilet problems at an initial introduction.  So I believe this was a bigger, known issue.

 

Solving the problem - Engineering staff were working in hallway closets after the first problem.  We never called anyone.  Everything then worked well for the next two days.  Thereafter it was hit or miss.  One time the room steward knocked on our door with an engineering staff member at his side and asked if the toilet was working.  I did a test flush, and told him no it was not.  They left and it "flushed itself" within 15 minutes.

 

The room steward told us the problem was people trying to flush the wrong things down the toilet.  But why was this a big problem in the same location on prior cruise(s)?  Why did the room steward know there would be problems on this cruise?

 

@chengkp75 - here is a second bathroom question.  There was no second drain on the bathroom floor.  Just one in the shower.  I looked for a small one on the floor and a long rectangular one at the door.  I even checked under the waste can and the bowl brush holder. Is this common on some ships? 

 

[PacnGoNow]

4 minutes ago, Jersey42 said:

We were on the Caribbean Princess last week.  It is a ship we have been on many times in the past, and unlike a few posters who experienced their version of a "cruise from hell",  we really had an overall very good trip. One of the issues we had was a non or slow flushing toilet. Although we have experienced toilet issues on multiple cruises, it was a little different this time.  I am hoping @chengkp75 sees this post and can offer some insights on what the underlying problems may be. 

 

First, the symptoms - Sometimes the toilet would flush fine.  Other times it would gurgle for a while (1 - 20 minutes) before it flushed.  At least once it never flushed, but after we left the room we told the room steward. It was taken care of and was fine when we returned later in the day.  It was all just a minor annoyance for us.  In the few cases we knew we were going to "dump" a lot of human waste in the bowl, we would do a test flush, or just use a public restroom.  We never kept flushing, so we never had an overflow.

 

Cabin location and prior problems - We were in a starboard 700 series on Emerald deck.  This was the same location where there were similar problems in May.  See this link: https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2852275-live-caribbean-princess-may-14th/page/5/#comment-63250992  So I believe something may be going on beyond a passenger in a nearby cabin flushing the wrong items town their toilet.

 

Initial meeting with room steward - When we met the steward on day one, he gave us his number and told us to call him if we needed anything or "had toilet problems".  I have never had a room steward mention toilet problems at an initial introduction.  So I believe this was a bigger, known issue.

 

Solving the problem - Engineering staff were working in hallway closets after the first problem.  We never called anyone.  Everything then worked well for the next two days.  Thereafter it was hit or miss.  One time the room steward knocked on our door with an engineering staff member at his side and asked if the toilet was working.  I did a test flush, and told him no it was not.  They left and it "flushed itself" within 15 minutes.

 

The room steward told us the problem was people trying to flush the wrong things down the toilet.  But why was this a big problem in the same location on prior cruise(s)?  Why did the room steward know there would be problems on this cruise?

 

@chengkp75 - here is a second bathroom question.  There was no second drain on the bathroom floor.  Just one in the shower.  I looked for a small one on the floor and a long rectangular one at the door.  I even checked under the waste can and the bowl brush holder. Is this common on some ships? 

 

We had similar issues in Feb and Mar. Nothing major, just no flush to a slow flush.  Steward was aware of issues around the ship.  We were Caribe Fwd.

However, big issues Caribe midship for

weeks and they were there every day trying to fix a leak and the smell was awful.  They said the April? dry dock would fix that, replacing carpets, other issues.  Hmmm

 

[azbirdmom]

We were on the Caribbean Princess in late May / early June and experienced toilet issues. It started with delayed flushing which we told our steward about and he reported it. The plumber was going to look at it the next morning as it wasn’t urgent. Late that night the toilet would only fill and not empty when flushed. I knew enough to not keep flushing as that could cause it to overflow into the room. I wound up at passenger service at 3 AM and they immediately got a plumber ti check it. There was a blockage but it was all human waste. And he replaced a very old part which solved the problem.  He did that all from the hallway and we didn’t have another problem for the rest of the cruise. We were in D625. 

[chengkp75]

OP, without knowing how much you know, or want to know, about toilet systems, let me get into a discussion based on some of your symptoms.

 

First, as the sanitary system goes from the top deck to the engine room, more and more toilets join the system.  Any one of these toilets can contribute to a problem, and everyone "upstream" of the blockage will not have a working toilet.  So, if I went to a crew cabin (typically the lowest on the ship), and purposely introduced something to block the piping, then everyone on that vacuum system (there are usually 3-5 separate systems on a ship), even if this is hundreds of toilets, will not have working toilets.  Some problems can make it past the first few bends, and then get stuck further down the line, causing more toilets not to work, than just the offender.  The complicating thing about a vacuum toilet system, is that unlike a shoreside, gravity, waste system, where the pipes get bigger and bigger the more things (showers, sinks, toilets) are connected to it, a vacuum system is the exact same size pipe from the highest toilet to the engine room.  This is to keep the "plug" of "product" in the pipe as a plug so it will continue to move.  Think of a vacuum cleaner.  If I try to pick up water, it doesn't work very well, but if I pour water into the hose, and then put a ping pong ball into the hose, as the ball is sucked up the hose, it takes the liquid with it.

 

Now, everything on a vacuum toilet is controlled by the system vacuum.  The valve that opens when you flush to empty the bowl, is operated by vacuum.  The valve to allow water into the bowl is operated by vacuum.  If there is little vacuum, the valves try to work, but may only partially operate, causing your "gurgling", or perhaps just the water valve opening, and not the "discharge" valve that empties the bowl.  If there is very little vacuum or no vacuum at your toilet, then it won't flush at all.  If you have pushed the flush button, and nothing happens, it still has "cocked" the operators, and once vacuum is restored at your toilet, it will complete the flush cycle (this is the commonly referred to as the "ghost flush", that can happen hours later).

 

I would say that the problem is still likely to be a passenger either flushing things that don't belong down the drain, or using the "half a roll of paper for each dump" system of personal hygiene.  Massive clumps of toilet paper at one time can cause clogs as well.  But, if there are recurring issues in the same areas of the ship, yes, there is likely an underlying cause.  This is most likely either a previous clog that was not completely cleared (causing a partial blockage that works most of the time, but when the wrong thing comes along, it stops up), or a sign of poor piping maintenance.  Trying not to be too gross, but urine is alkaline, and forms scale in the pipes.  This scale, over time, can reduce the pipe diameter to such that clogs become frequent.  The typical treatment for this, is that the cabin steward, once weekly during turn around, drops a packet in each passenger toilet, lets it dissolve for a few minutes, and then flushes the citric acid (yep, made from oranges) down the piping, which then dissolves the scale.  Crew cabins, since they are typically closer to the end of the system (less piping) are treated once monthly during cabin inspections.

4 hours ago, PacnGoNow said:

However, big issues Caribe midship for

weeks and they were there every day trying to fix a leak and the smell was awful.

This was more likely a "gray water" problem.  Ship's systems separate "black water" (toilets) from "gray water" (sinks, showers, laundry, galley), unlike shoreside systems.  If there was a leak in the vacuum toilet system, it would have meant no vacuum for a section of cabins.  Water leaking out and smelling, is more likely a gray water system leak.  They should have been able to make temporary patch repairs if nothing else, using fiberglass tape to last until the shipyard.  These pipes are typically very thin walled, and subject to corrosion and leaking.

 

As for the second bathroom drain, I've never seen a "wet unit" (the prefab bathroom unit) that didn't have one, unless there is no curb between the shower and the rest of the bath.  It is most often found directly under the toilet, and you have to get down on hands and knees to find it.  And, again, even though it is underneath the toilet, it is a gray water drain, so it has nothing to do with the toilet system.

[cruisingpeople]

As always, an excellent explanation for a specific problem.......... Thank You, Chief.

 

We were on the same cruise as Azbirdmom and was in D610. We experienced the same problem as the OP with the "few seconds"-to-"many minutes" delay in flushing. We had a couple of 30-60 minute delays which resulted in a phone call to GS and a plumber would show up rather quickly, do something in the hallway closet, and things would be back to normal.  At least for a while.

 

 

[PacnGoNow]

25 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

OP, without knowing how much you know, or want to know, about toilet systems, let me get into a discussion based on some of your symptoms.

 

First, as the sanitary system goes from the top deck to the engine room, more and more toilets join the system.  Any one of these toilets can contribute to a problem, and everyone "upstream" of the blockage will not have a working toilet.  So, if I went to a crew cabin (typically the lowest on the ship), and purposely introduced something to block the piping, then everyone on that vacuum system (there are usually 3-5 separate systems on a ship), even if this is hundreds of toilets, will not have working toilets.  Some problems can make it past the first few bends, and then get stuck further down the line, causing more toilets not to work, than just the offender.  The complicating thing about a vacuum toilet system, is that unlike a shoreside, gravity, waste system, where the pipes get bigger and bigger the more things (showers, sinks, toilets) are connected to it, a vacuum system is the exact same size pipe from the highest toilet to the engine room.  This is to keep the "plug" of "product" in the pipe as a plug so it will continue to move.  Think of a vacuum cleaner.  If I try to pick up water, it doesn't work very well, but if I pour water into the hose, and then put a ping pong ball into the hose, as the ball is sucked up the hose, it takes the liquid with it.

 

Now, everything on a vacuum toilet is controlled by the system vacuum.  The valve that opens when you flush to empty the bowl, is operated by vacuum.  The valve to allow water into the bowl is operated by vacuum.  If there is little vacuum, the valves try to work, but may only partially operate, causing your "gurgling", or perhaps just the water valve opening, and not the "discharge" valve that empties the bowl.  If there is very little vacuum or no vacuum at your toilet, then it won't flush at all.  If you have pushed the flush button, and nothing happens, it still has "cocked" the operators, and once vacuum is restored at your toilet, it will complete the flush cycle (this is the commonly referred to as the "ghost flush", that can happen hours later).

 

I would say that the problem is still likely to be a passenger either flushing things that don't belong down the drain, or using the "half a roll of paper for each dump" system of personal hygiene.  Massive clumps of toilet paper at one time can cause clogs as well.  But, if there are recurring issues in the same areas of the ship, yes, there is likely an underlying cause.  This is most likely either a previous clog that was not completely cleared (causing a partial blockage that works most of the time, but when the wrong thing comes along, it stops up), or a sign of poor piping maintenance.  Trying not to be too gross, but urine is alkaline, and forms scale in the pipes.  This scale, over time, can reduce the pipe diameter to such that clogs become frequent.  The typical treatment for this, is that the cabin steward, once weekly during turn around, drops a packet in each passenger toilet, lets it dissolve for a few minutes, and then flushes the citric acid (yep, made from oranges) down the piping, which then dissolves the scale.  Crew cabins, since they are typically closer to the end of the system (less piping) are treated once monthly during cabin inspections.

This was more likely a "gray water" problem.  Ship's systems separate "black water" (toilets) from "gray water" (sinks, showers, laundry, galley), unlike shoreside systems.  If there was a leak in the vacuum toilet system, it would have meant no vacuum for a section of cabins.  Water leaking out and smelling, is more likely a gray water system leak.  They should have been able to make temporary patch repairs if nothing else, using fiberglass tape to last until the shipyard.  These pipes are typically very thin walled, and subject to corrosion and leaking.

 

As for the second bathroom drain, I've never seen a "wet unit" (the prefab bathroom unit) that didn't have one, unless there is no curb between the shower and the rest of the bath.  It is most often found directly under the toilet, and you have to get down on hands and knees to find it.  And, again, even though it is underneath the toilet, it is a gray water drain, so it has nothing to do with the toilet system.

Thank you so much for explaining.  You are a wealth of information and truly appreciated.

 

The workers were midship almost

everyday and said it was a leak. It looked as though they were working on an open panel midship port side, near the floor. They also kept spraying air freshener, so we avoided the area as much as possible.  But, from the elevators you could see them working. I asked on cruises after dry dock and they seemed to think this area was repaired.  

 

 

[DavidsNana]

1 hour ago, azbirdmom said:

We were on the Caribbean Princess in late May / early June and experienced toilet issues. It started with delayed flushing which we told our steward about and he reported it. The plumber was going to look at it the next morning as it wasn’t urgent. Late that night the toilet would only fill and not empty when flushed. I knew enough to not keep flushing as that could cause it to overflow into the room. I wound up at passenger service at 3 AM and they immediately got a plumber ti check it. There was a blockage but it was all human waste. And he replaced a very old part which solved the problem.  He did that all from the hallway and we didn’t have another problem for the rest of the cruise. We were in D625. 

My son and I were in D626 on the Feb 27th, 7 day Western Caribbean cruise so on the opposite side of the ship from you.  We had no toilet problems nor did we hear or see any while we were onboard.  Wondering if we could have been lucky as only 1400 passengers onboard or if these problems were caused by something done during the April drydock.

[Jersey42]

45 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

I would say that the problem is still likely to be a passenger either flushing things that don't belong down the drain, or using the "half a roll of paper for each dump" system of personal hygiene.  Massive clumps of toilet paper at one time can cause clogs as well.  But, if there are recurring issues in the same areas of the ship, yes, there is likely an underlying cause.  This is most likely either a previous clog that was not completely cleared (causing a partial blockage that works most of the time, but when the wrong thing comes along, it stops up), or a sign of poor piping maintenance.  Trying not to be too gross, but urine is alkaline, and forms scale in the pipes.  This scale, over time, can reduce the pipe diameter to such that clogs become frequent.  The typical treatment for this, is that the cabin steward, once weekly during turn around, drops a packet in each passenger toilet, lets it dissolve for a few minutes, and then flushes the citric acid (yep, made from oranges) down the piping, which then dissolves the scale.  Crew cabins, since they are typically closer to the end of the system (less piping) are treated once monthly during cabin inspections.

Thanks for your thorough response.  I have learned how to "follow you" on cruise critic, so read most of your posts and always learn something new.  I was most curious on why there was a recurring problem, why it was for certain sections of the ship and how the room steward knew that we would most likely have problems this cruise?  What you say above makes lots of sense and it is nice to know the citric acid treatment should reduce some of the issues (over time).

[Jersey42]

52 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

As for the second bathroom drain, I've never seen a "wet unit" (the prefab bathroom unit) that didn't have one, unless there is no curb between the shower and the rest of the bath.  It is most often found directly under the toilet, and you have to get down on hands and knees to find it.  And, again, even though it is underneath the toilet, it is a gray water drain, so it has nothing to do with the toilet system.

I get that this is a gray water drain and totally unrelated to the toilet issues.  I just posted here in the hope you might see it.

 

I don't know if you have ever been on a Princess ship, but the showers are VERY tiny and there is no shower door, only a shower curtain.  So it is very common for a lot of water to get onto the bathroom floor.  So I think the Princess ships have even more need for a floor drain, than any other ships I have been on. I have seen the drains in many other cabins on various ships. I was just surprised I could not find one in this cabin.  The toilet hangs on the wall so it was easy enough to see under it and around it.  There was low shelf under the sink.  It could have been hidden under the shelf and I missed it.