Octantis - Toronto to Milwaukee

[MarkNLynn]

We LOVE Viking. We specifically did this cruise to see the Expedition ship with it's toys and unique experiences. This cruise from Toronto to Milwaukee crosses from US to Canadian waters. Each has specific laws about what you can and cannot do. When in US ports Octantis could NOT open the bars, could NOT operate submarines or kayaks, and docked in locations that were NOT equipped to handle this size or style of boat. Empty loading docks with piles of gravel were what we got to see at one place from our cabin. This is NOT what we've become to with Viking. Many of the crew members were so new to the ship (and Viking) that we spent more time teaching them what we needed than them knowing what to do. I could go on and on but won't. The ship was beautiful, has a ton of potential with the right crew, destination, opportunities to do new things but this leg should be dropped from their itineraries until they work out the logistical issues. For what we paid for, we definitely did NOT get our value from it. 

[mtnestr2011]

13 minutes ago, MarkNLynn said:

We LOVE Viking. We specifically did this cruise to see the Expedition ship with it's toys and unique experiences….For what we paid for, we definitely did NOT get our value from it. 

Oh, my, you must have taken one of the initial Toronto-Milwaukee trips! We deliberately chose the final Milwaukee-Toronto cruise (Sep 24 - Oct 1), as I hoped the new itinerary kinks would be resolved by then (nope). This was our first experience with Viking, and I finished the trip with a rather lukewarm impression of the company. 

 

The original cruise we booked and immediately paid for a year ago was based on promotional material that touted the toys—submarine, zodiacs, SOBs, kayaks—activities we were very much interested in as well as traversing 4 of the 5 Great Lakes. The trip materially changed enough to feel like a bait-and-switch and makes me cautious about booking with Viking again.  Would I have accepted the cost of this cruise (as compared to a Tauck-guided cruise on Ponant in the same GL) knowing we would lose two stops and overnight in Milwaukee and Toronto (not weather-related), not be able to use the “toys” while in the US, and have the hotel in Chicago changed as it was? No, I would have taken the Tauck trip on the smaller Ponant ship. 
 

 

 

 

[mtnestr2011]

To add perspective my comments: While we did enjoy many aspects of our week on Octantis, the experience did not come close to what we might have expected and enjoyed elsewhere for $3,470 per day (couple per diem cost for NS room, standard Viking trip insurance, base gratuities, silver spirits package).  I might have been less aggravated with being a “guinea pig” had I paid the base cabin rate. It’s common to have a “soft opening” with reduced rates or incentives in the hospitality sector to work out the kinks. Viking would have garnered more repeat customers had they followed that model with their new ventures in North America.

[PRH]

We are on the Canadian Discovery cruise right now—Toronto to NYC.  Fabulous ship and crew but the excursions have definitely been disappointing.  For what we were “sold as a description” more than three years ago for discovery of wildlife and indigenous peoples, we paid too much for what was billed as a premium cruise.  The excursions rarely came close to matching the descriptions and Guest Services/Excursions said there was nothing they could do about it as the information came from “the home office” down to the scripts used for the daily briefings.

 

 In addition, the included excursions were all sold out by the time we could reserve and we were in ND.  The optional excursions were expensive ($99 to hike?) and as it turns out, usually replicated most of what was in the included ones.   There were some angry people who paid for an excursion only to find themselves in the same venues with the included tours.  On one hike billed a a hike in a National park followed by a picnic lunch—we boarded the school bus (typical for most of these ports) around noon, sat for 30 minutes and then a stop to pick up the bag lunches (most of us had just eaten) then off to the park.  When we arrived, we were handed the heavy bags—sandwich, container of ramen salad, a bottle of water—I guess with the expectation that we would carry them for the hike?  We told the guide we would wait until afterwards—she wasn’t too pleased.  Then as we approached the information center (none provided on the bus), we were told that a naturalist had been reserved but it would be 45 minutes to an hour wait for them.  Given that we had two hours total (and that had been reserved by the wait time at the pier), very few waited around.  It was a beautiful day and the trails were well marked so a great time but balanced with the rest—an average rating.

 

The “toys” were available only two days and the outings were half hour and more to show off the toy rather than explore local shores.  Granted, the weather on the first day was less than optimal—windy and raining.  Two ports—Saguenay and Cap-aux-Mueles could have been easily skipped—aluminum plants and paper mills were the important parts of the day.  We wished for much more time in PEI.   We did enjoy the weather balloon releases, the science lab, the bird lectures and the many nooks and crannies in the ship.  I will be hard pressed to recommend this particular cruise until I hear more positives about the quality of the excursions.

[Sunflower & The Scientist]

Here again I'd say, as I have before on Cruise Critic, reviews are very subjective, and expectations are very different from person to person. We were on Toronto to Milwaukee in August. Octantis is new....the itinerary is new, we kept that in perspective when going on this cruise. Was it perfect, no, there were glitches here and there as we expected. We'd have loved for everyone to have the opportunity to go on the sub, but it was not Vikings fault that they are not allowed to do it in US waters. Some of the ports were not very exciting, but Viking did the best they could do with what this route could offer them.

 

As far as the crew, I am really surprised to hear anyone say they had to teach the crew! Personally that kind of hits me wrong...I've never considered myself to be in a position of teaching the crew how to do their jobs. We did not come across any crew that weren't doing an outstanding job. Daily I saw crew being supervised making sure they were doing an excellent job. We have not experienced the level of personal involvement with the crew as we did on Octantis. The crew mingles with the passengers throughout the day. We had a lovely chat with the CFO as we sipped our tea, and I saw this happening all the time all over the ship. I do not recall a time when our room attendants weren't somewhere in the hall checking to make sure we had everything we needed. I popped in to grab something in my room one day when they were cleaning. I would have loved to hire them to do my house! They were deep cleaning, not just spiffing up. 

 

We are wondering how soon we can book another one of the Great Lakes cruises. Yes they are expensive, and they don't have the world's best ports....but post pandemic, we'd jump back onboard in a second. 

[rmalbers]

Strange, the bars were open in US waters when I did the Mil to Thunder bay three weeks ago. 

[mtnestr2011]

rmalbers: There we’re reports from early season Milwaukee stops that alcohol could not be served until the ropes were dropped. The Milwaukee liquor license had been obtained by our September cruise, but Viking still did not have a liquor license to serve while docked in Detroit. That was of little consequence, though, as we were in Detroit for a short afternoon and sailing out by 5pm. I imagine that challenge influenced the timing of our stop there.

[mtnestr2011]

And the requirement for local liquor license applied when docked at a US port, not in US waters. Operative word being docked.

[chengkp75]

I have never heard of any foreign flag cruise ship needing a local liquor license in the US, whether docked or not.  States can enforce the state liquor laws (not local ones) (especially if the vessel sails only within that state) on US flag vessels, but not foreign flag ships.

[mtnestr2011]

14 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

I have never heard of any foreign flag cruise ship needing a local liquor license in the US, whether docked or not.  States can enforce the state liquor laws (not local ones) (especially if the vessel sails only within that state) on US flag vessels, but not foreign flag ships.

The result was the same whether it was a local or state reg:  NO alcohol was permitted to be served on the Octantis while we were docked in Detroit on September 28th.  I sat in the Explorers Lounge for sail-away listening to the bartender and beverage manager apologize repeatedly and assure incredulous guests alcohol could be served just as soon as the ship left the dock.  Wade through early Octantis GL itinerary reviews here on Cruise Critic, and you will find a couple in April that mention, "Much to everyone's surprise, we hit a couple of serving restricted areas for libations" and "Also, there were bar and drinks restrictions when we were in port that were not expected. They made up for it by providing 2 bottles of wine for every room, but I was not able to get the wine I really wanted to drink.”  [LOL, that last comment about leaving bottles of wine in each room did not apply to our cruise]

 

It's smart to question what we read on social media as people tend to post from an emotional in-the-moment point of view.  I did, however, go to the source (sort of) and emailed Tellus to ask if it was true there were alcohol restrictions in some ports as nothing was ever mentioned in any of their contractual fine print with no reduction in the cost of the silver spirits package.  I received a phone call from a Tellus representative confirming, yes, sorry, Viking has to adhere to local regs at some ports. 

 

I recognize the travel experience is different from what we experienced pre-pandemic.  After this recent trip, I am skeptical that any cruise line can live up their advertising. I find no fault with the short-staffed, hard-working crew on board.  I fault the corporate entity that is not honest in communicating known challenges ahead of time and how they will handle it. I took three very different international trips this year, so I can't help but compare how each set expectations they met or failed.

[chengkp75]

46 minutes ago, mtnestr2011 said:

The result was the same whether it was a local or state reg:  NO alcohol was permitted to be served on the Octantis while we were docked in Detroit on September 28th. 

I'm starting to suspect that this was a case similar to Texas, where only liquor with a state tax label on it (whether Michigan or Minnesota) can be sold while docked or within that state's waters, not a liquor licensing issue.  Cruise ships get liquor that is "out of bond", meaning that no federal, state, or local liquor tax has been paid on it, and no import duty.  Some states don't allow this out of bond liquor to be sold, and only liquor with a state tax seal on it can be sold, and the ship did not buy any of this taxed liquor.

[1985rz1]

On 10/12/2022 at 7:31 AM, PRH said:

We are on the Canadian Discovery cruise right now—Toronto to NYC.  Fabulous ship and crew but the excursions have definitely been disappointing.  For what we were “sold as a description” more than three years ago for discovery of wildlife and indigenous peoples, we paid too much for what was billed as a premium cruise.  The excursions rarely came close to matching the descriptions and Guest Services/Excursions said there was nothing they could do about it as the information came from “the home office” down to the scripts used for the daily briefings.

 

 In addition, the included excursions were all sold out by the time we could reserve and we were in ND.  The optional excursions were expensive ($99 to hike?) and as it turns out, usually replicated most of what was in the included ones.   There were some angry people who paid for an excursion only to find themselves in the same venues with the included tours.  On one hike billed a a hike in a National park followed by a picnic lunch—we boarded the school bus (typical for most of these ports) around noon, sat for 30 minutes and then a stop to pick up the bag lunches (most of us had just eaten) then off to the park.  When we arrived, we were handed the heavy bags—sandwich, container of ramen salad, a bottle of water—I guess with the expectation that we would carry them for the hike?  We told the guide we would wait until afterwards—she wasn’t too pleased.  Then as we approached the information center (none provided on the bus), we were told that a naturalist had been reserved but it would be 45 minutes to an hour wait for them.  Given that we had two hours total (and that had been reserved by the wait time at the pier), very few waited around.  It was a beautiful day and the trails were well marked so a great time but balanced with the rest—an average rating.

 

The “toys” were available only two days and the outings were half hour and more to show off the toy rather than explore local shores.  Granted, the weather on the first day was less than optimal—windy and raining.  Two ports—Saguenay and Cap-aux-Mueles could have been easily skipped—aluminum plants and paper mills were the important parts of the day.  We wished for much more time in PEI.   We did enjoy the weather balloon releases, the science lab, the bird lectures and the many nooks and crannies in the ship.  I will be hard pressed to recommend this particular cruise until I hear more positives about the quality of the excursions.

We were on that cruise, too, and were disappointed that expedition toys were only briefly available and only to show them off.    Like you, we feel the expedition nature was oversold. Once they get all the permissions in place to use the toys, I think the cruise would be as advertised.

 

However, we thought that in general the cruise was excellent and enjoyed most if not all of the tours We also thought that the Octantis was beautiful and extremely well designed, and the crew and staff were excellent.  The food was generally very good and the service excellent.

 

We were also on the National Park tour you accurately described, although our bus did not have to wait for 30 minutes to pick up the sack lunches. But we thoroughly enjoyed the experience  in the Park on our own.

 

I guess we wouldn't agree that Saguenay and Cap aux Meules could have been skipped. We had a very good tour on Saguenay which included very interesting wine-tasting and gin-tasting stops. Our tour in Cap aux Meules included an excellent beer tasting along with several very scenic stops.  In both cases we enjoyed seeing the local village culture. 

 

So overall, with the caveat of being prepared with the proper permissions for the use of the toys, we would recommend the Canadian Discovery  cruise.

[peribit]

We are considering of taking this cruise.  Can anyone tell me if any of the ports are tender ports or are Zodiac and SOB only access to the ports?

[janetcbl]

1 hour ago, peribit said:

We are considering of taking this cruise.  Can anyone tell me if any of the ports are tender ports or are Zodiac and SOB only access to the ports?

 

1 hour ago, peribit said:

We are considering of taking this cruise.  Can anyone tell me if any of the ports are tender ports or are Zodiac and SOB only access to the ports?

We are going in August 2023 and from the looks of the schedule we were sent it looks as though most of the ports are tender ports.

[peribit]

I wonder if some ports are only accessible by zodiac?

 

[CurlerRob]

46 minutes ago, peribit said:

I wonder if some ports are only accessible by zodiac?

 

 

It's the Great Lakes, not the Antarctic 😁. The ports will be dock or tender. None will require Zodiac or SOB for access - which is not to say that those craft will not be deployed for pax usage when appropriate (Point Pelee or Mackinac for example). 🍺🥌

[Sunflower & The Scientist]

They are tender ports, Zodiacs are not used for transporting to the ports. I do not recall that Zodiacs were used at all at Mackinac, there were just the usual excursions. 

[CurlerRob]

9 minutes ago, Sunflower & The Scientist said:

They are tender ports, Zodiacs are not used for transporting to the ports. I do not recall that Zodiacs were used at all at Mackinac, there were just the usual excursions. 

I did see both the kayaks and a zodiac out with pax at Point Pelee during Octantis' maiden voyage from Toronto. Just a guess that they may have done something similar at Mackinac, as it would be a great kayak site. 🍺🥌

[mtnestr2011]

12 hours ago, CurlerRob said:

I did see both the kayaks and a zodiac out with pax at Point Pelee during Octantis' maiden voyage from Toronto. Just a guess that they may have done something similar at Mackinac, as it would be a great kayak site. 🍺🥌

Kayaking at Mackinac was a paid excursion (local company) as it is US waters and Viking may not use their water toys. Do not expect to use any Viking watercraft (other than tender) at any US stop. Our September Milwaukee-to-Toronto trip dropped Port Pelee for an overnight in Toronto’s industrial port area where we had our first and only opportunity to go out in zodiacs, SOBS, kayaks (no sub on that trip). Those wanting to enjoy Viking’s small watercraft should take the Canadian-intensive itineraries.