Explorer Virus Breakout

[Firefighterhoop]

One thing I did notice on this, I did a search of all Ships, and all dates, from all lines from 2000 to present, and RCCL is one of the very few companies that has not had a ship fail an inspection in the 6 years.

 

Scott

[PeterPan]

After searching around, it appears there are some alcohol based hand sanitizers the are effective in killing virus. They are not effective against all types of virus. The medical grade we use made by 3M Healthcare makes no claims for killing any virus, only bacteria.

 

Household bleach is very effective agains nearly all types of virus, but you probably wouldn't want to wash your hands with it!

 

Soap and water are also effective, and readily available on a cruise ship. CDC does not recommend the use of hand sanitizer products as a replacement for soap and water. They are good when soap and water is not available (shore excursions?).

 

I personally am not going to gamble that an alcohol based hand cleaner purchased at the local drug store will kill the norovirus.

[smeyer418]

Celebrity is owned by RC and has a 2004 cdc failure. I don't think the fact that some cruise lines haven't failed is significant. The thing that is interesting IMO is that their appears to be much less incidence in the last few years. There aren't that many cruise lines. NCL doesn't have a failure either

[HollisNH]

It was a great trip (unless you got the Norwalk virus...). This was our first cruise and we did not get ill. There were many rumors flying around the ship so I can't tell you all these facts are correct but here's what we heard

 

- actual number ill with the virus closer to 400

- some people were quarantined to their cabins for 72 hours - we heard one story about a family with 2 kids being quarantined for 72 hours!

- People started getting ill the first night which is why they believe it was brought on board by a guest

- it was not well known on the ship that there was an issue until we arrived at Grand Cayman (last port) and we had a 60 minute delay getting off while GC decided if anyone would get off (total quarantine) or all but the sick. They ended up denying anyone who had been sick (for anything) as well as anyone in close (shared cabin) contact with them. That's when everyone began to find out.

- rumor has it the Carnival ship next to us sent their doctor to us to help treat the many cases

- on the second day you could tell something was going on - self serve at all food stations stopped - crew had to serve all food. Hand santizer was installed everywhere and people were strongly encouraged to use it before and after leaving food areas. Extensive and frequent sanitizing was done of public areas such as railings, elevator buttons, etc

- there was no formal notice made at any time until the last night when a letter was delivered to all rooms explaining what had happened (similar to the AP story)

 

 

all in all we had a fantastic time - but those that were sick did not; and many others expressed concern about the unwillingness of the crew to share information. People felt they would have been more cautious if they had known earlier

-

[Firefighterhoop]

Ok, I'll throw this question out... Did the cases, or did you hear of the cases, start to slow down once precautions were taken? Or did the cases keep getting reported?

 

I want to comment to what you said as far as letting people know before the end of the cruise.. When a company starts to do that, they instill a type of "Panic", even though most still will not get sick, some will actually think they have the symptoms, and not really have them - sometimes worrying so much about it, causing nausea and vomiting, 2 of the most common symptoms of the virus, thus adding to the problem. - and when you say being more careful? Everyone should have already been washing their hands.

 

Just a thought

Scott

[tkdmom22]

I did some digging into the scientific literature, and found that while alcholol is indeed an effective antiviral against certain types of viruses (those that contain lipid envelopes if there are any other scientists out there reading this), the norovirus does NOT fall into this category and therefore alcohlol is ineffective against it.

[jtmalt]

Also, do you believe everything you read on the internet? I will try that google search and see if there is any reference to alcohol killing a virus.

 

Well, no, I don't believe everything I read on the internet. That's why I checked it out with Colorado State University. :)

 

In any event, in view of,

 

I did some digging into the scientific literature, and found that while alcholol is indeed an effective antiviral against certain types of viruses (those that contain lipid envelopes if there are any other scientists out there reading this), the norovirus does NOT fall into this category and therefore alcohlol is ineffective against it.

 

I am compelled to apologize and I stand corrected.:o

[SunFunCruiser]

Nobody is saying that the gel is 100% effective....and of course licking your fingers transmits disease....

but something is better than nothing.

Seriously...why agrue this point????

The more you do to prevent transmission the better....

If RCL didn't think the gel was effective....then they wouldn't use it at all????

We're not advocating using the gel instead we're encouraging one more step.

 

 

I agree. On DCL we were allowed in the restaurants until we wiped our hands with the wipe. Just an added precaution. Doesn't hurt.

[SunFunCruiser]

On another note. I'm in food and beverage. I can't believe these ships still let guests handle food. All buffets should be served. It doesn't take much more staff and it's a lot safer.

You wouldn't believe what I used to see people do to buffet food, before we changed to our staff dishing it out.

 

Buffets just gross me out anyway.

[tom_uk]

I've been reading this informative thread with interest: I'm a novice cruiser, who hasn't had any problems of this nature so far, but who is keen to learn and take sensible precautions.

 

Thinking about the points that have been raied, it would seem to me that the 'touching' risk must be pretty minor: at worst this would put the virus in contact with your outer skin. That's a pretty tough organ, and is normally well-sealed. Even if it penetrates, then it's in your blood stream and your immune system will very probably handle it. In any case, how likely is it that the virus will survive for long on an exposed metal or plastic surface, eg a door handle, lift button, etc?

 

It seems to me that the danger comes with food: if the virus is transferred from someone's hands to an item of food, it is then in an environment where it might flourish, or at least not perish. Then, that infected food is actually ingested by another perons: thus the virus has found a route into another person's intestinal tract, ie its natural home. The chances of its being able to actually make someone ill has got quite high at this point. So, actually, the main risk is in using the buffet at all, as SunFunCruiser suggests.

 

Am I on the right track here?

[nrdsb4]

I've been reading this informative thread with interest: I'm a novice cruiser, who hasn't had any problems of this nature so far, but who is keen to learn and take sensible precautions.

 

Thinking about the points that have been raied, it would seem to me that the 'touching' risk must be pretty minor: at worst this would put the virus in contact with your outer skin. That's a pretty tough organ, and is normally well-sealed. Even if it penetrates, then it's in your blood stream and your immune system will very probably handle it. In any case, how likely is it that the virus will survive for long on an exposed metal or plastic surface, eg a door handle, lift button, etc?

 

It seems to me that the danger comes with food: if the virus is transferred from someone's hands to an item of food, it is then in an environment where it might flourish, or at least not perish. Then, that infected food is actually ingested by another perons: thus the virus has found a route into another person's intestinal tract, ie its natural home. The chances of its being able to actually make someone ill has got quite high at this point. So, actually, the main risk is in using the buffet at all, as SunFunCruiser suggests.

 

Am I on the right track here?

 

Yes, contaminated food is certainly one mode of transmission. But don't underestimate the "touching" risk. This disease is spread via fecal/oral route. If you touch a contaminated surface (serving tongs, handrail, elevator button, human hand) and proceed to put your hands on or near your mouth, or on your own silveware, you have exposed yourself to the virus. Most of us touch our mouths pretty often without even thinking about it. You get an itch, and kind of brush your mouth, or whatever.

 

Wash your hands often and keep them away from your face. If you must use serving tongs in the buffets, use some hand wipes after you sit down and before you touch your own silverware. That's really the best you can do.

[LaTortuga]

Ok, I'll throw this question out... Did the cases, or did you hear of the cases, start to slow down once precautions were taken? Or did the cases keep getting reported?

 

I want to comment to what you said as far as letting people know before the end of the cruise.. When a company starts to do that, they instill a type of "Panic", even though most still will not get sick, some will actually think they have the symptoms, and not really have them - sometimes worrying so much about it, causing nausea and vomiting, 2 of the most common symptoms of the virus, thus adding to the problem. - and when you say being more careful? Everyone should have already been washing their hands.

 

Just a thought

Scott

 

We had a group of 21 on board and one of our group got sick on Tuesday and sought the medical attention and was quarantined for 24 + hours. We got a little bit of information from him because he was in the infirmary for a while, but otherwise, we would not have known anything was going on. We ate breakfast in the diningroom with a couple that were cruising alone and they didn't have any clue that something was wrong. We felt that we should have been told SOMETHING, because once they start requiring hand sanitizing at dinner and buffets and you all you see is staff constantly cleaning every inch of the ship, you start to realize that something's going on.

I do believe there were A LOT more sick that what was reported, becuase they can only account for people who went to the infirmary. In our group of 21, 1 sought medical attention, but 2 more got sick late on Saturday and just wanted to be able to get off the ship on Sunday, so they kept themselves in their room for the night. It was also very evident in the dining rooms and shows that there were a lot of people not out and about. I was on the Explorer last year and it was noticeibly inactive throughout the week.

For those who didn't get sick, it was a good cruise...if I have time later I'll write a review.

[Snoozeman]

It was a great trip (unless you got the Norwalk virus...). This was our first cruise and we did not get ill. There were many rumors flying around the ship so I can't tell you all these facts are correct but here's what we heard

 

- actual number ill with the virus closer to 400

- some people were quarantined to their cabins for 72 hours - we heard one story about a family with 2 kids being quarantined for 72 hours!

- People started getting ill the first night which is why they believe it was brought on board by a guest

- it was not well known on the ship that there was an issue until we arrived at Grand Cayman (last port) and we had a 60 minute delay getting off while GC decided if anyone would get off (total quarantine) or all but the sick. They ended up denying anyone who had been sick (for anything) as well as anyone in close (shared cabin) contact with them. That's when everyone began to find out.

- rumor has it the Carnival ship next to us sent their doctor to us to help treat the many cases

- on the second day you could tell something was going on - self serve at all food stations stopped - crew had to serve all food. Hand santizer was installed everywhere and people were strongly encouraged to use it before and after leaving food areas. Extensive and frequent sanitizing was done of public areas such as railings, elevator buttons, etc

- there was no formal notice made at any time until the last night when a letter was delivered to all rooms explaining what had happened (similar to the AP story)

 

 

all in all we had a fantastic time - but those that were sick did not; and many others expressed concern about the unwillingness of the crew to share information. People felt they would have been more cautious if they had known earlier

-

Thanks for your report. BTW-it was on Fox news this morning.

 

I noticed the Rhapsody (my Fav) had a 98 CDC score. Good for the friendly ship!

[Driftwoodgal]

We were on the Brilliance in January, they had the sanitizers at the Windjammer, the Dining Room entrance and when you reboarded the ship. I use them every time I walk past one.

 

My hubby worked in New Orleans, adjusting insurance losses. A customer of ours works for the health department. He said that the liquid gel does work on the germs.

 

We wash our hands constantly and try to not touch the hand rails while walking up and down the stairs. As someone posted airplanes, chairs etc can all care tons of germs.

 

On our Splendour cruise a few years back the cruise line had a sign as you were checking in that they would give you your money back if you had a GI problem. They didn't want you to board the ship and give it to the rest of the ship. I haven't seen a sign like that on our last three cruises.

[threeofus]

Yes, contaminated food is certainly one mode of transmission. But don't underestimate the "touching" risk. This disease is spread via fecal/oral route. If you touch a contaminated surface (serving tongs, handrail, elevator button, human hand) and proceed to put your hands on or near your mouth, or on your own silveware, you have exposed yourself to the virus. Most of us touch our mouths pretty often without even thinking about it. You get an itch, and kind of brush your mouth, or whatever.

 

Wash your hands often and keep them away from your face. If you must use serving tongs in the buffets, use some hand wipes after you sit down and before you touch your own silverware. That's really the best you can do.

 

In addition touching your eyes is another huge problem. We do that often without even thinking...also hand to hand and then pop a piece of candy in your mouth.

That's why washing is so important....but on the way to the buffet you will touch many many surfaces...thus the gel at the entrance. Certainly not in place of handwashing should be used in addtion. (and it will cover those that didn't wash their hands, which we have no control over)

 

 

At the risk of repeating myself...If the gel comes out after an outbreak they must consider it somewhat useful...so bring it on early.

[Nliedel]

In addition touching your eyes is another huge problem. We do that often without even thinking...

 

I snipped your post.

 

You know I thnink I remember from Biology class that the vitreous humor of the eye was a much more effective transmitter of viruses than the mouth but I cannot 100% promise that was what they taught. School was a long, long, long time ago.

[nrdsb4]

I snipped your post.

 

You know I thnink I remember from Biology class that the vitreous humor of the eye was a much more effective transmitter of viruses than the mouth but I cannot 100% promise that was what they taught. School was a long, long, long time ago.

 

It depends on what germ you're talking about. In order for you to get sick with the norovirus, it must enter the g.i. tract (hence the "fecal/oral" designation).

[crusinmama06]

A friend of ours cruise DCL every February. Two years ago, he contracted Norwalk. He was flown home out of one of the Mexican ports. DCL ended up giving his entire family another cruise.

 

Then last February is when we went with them on DCL. Both of my kids got sick (not Norwalk, just regular viruses).

 

We decided to only cruise after cold/flu season is over. Don't know if it makes a difference, but I guess it can't hurt.

[AnthonyD]

I did some digging into the scientific literature, and found that while alcholol is indeed an effective antiviral against certain types of viruses (those that contain lipid envelopes if there are any other scientists out there reading this), the norovirus does NOT fall into this category and therefore alcohlol is ineffective against it.

 

Many of the deadliest virus out there are lipid or protein and carbohydrate coated. There is no way to be sure that alcohol gel will kill them all. We use the gel all the time and it has been shown to be effective at killing bacteria but we don't assume its going to kill viruses. We wash our hands as we know its the single most effective way to reduce risk. Furthermore, some of the more stubborn bacteria will NOT be removed or killed by gels because If you have too much of it on your hands or its hiding embedded in food particles under your fingernails the gel will not be as effective and you need to mechanically remove these bacteria by vigorous hand washing.

 

-The first suggestion is to prevent introduction on ships, by screening passengers and giving refunds to those infected with Norovirus so that they don't attemp to board.

 

-Gels are a waste of time as it only takes one person to not use it and everyone gets exposed in a public area. Worse, the prophylactic use of antibiotic gels may really hurt us all much more in the long run as these bugs gain resistance to these commonly used antibiotics and leave us unable to treat seriously ill people with antibiotics.

 

-RCI should do some vigorous cleaning with viracides in all public areas.

[Nliedel]

All cruiselines will take extra efforts with bleach cleaning during and following an outbreak. Remember the cruise lines, RCI included do not want these outbreaks anymore than the traveling public does, because of conversations like these.

[megessey]

Between this thread and the bed bugs thread and the bedspread funk thread, I just can't WAIT to get on my cruise!!!!!

 

 

 

But seriously, how do you guys feel about that Airbourne stuff they sell at drugstores... anyone have good or bad experiences with it?

[Vyhanek]

The alcohol based gels kill viruses. I think the gels at the buffets are a good idea. If they are right there they will be used by a lot of the cruisers. Having the people kill the germs on their hands even once or twice a day sounds good to me. Relying on Joe average passanger to stop at a restroom to wash his hands is crazy. That just won't happen but if Joe Average is waiting in line and there is hand sanitizer gel he might consider it.

 

I think RCCL could follow the lead of the other cruise lines and just offer the gel for those of us that would use it and it would make a good token PR gesture in an attempt to try to stop the outbreaks.

[cmich068]

i still find it hard to believe that Explorer did not have sanatizers on board.

 

Every other RCCL ship i've been on over the last 3 years has.

[Retired not Expired]

 

 

 

But seriously, how do you guys feel about that Airbourne stuff they sell at drugstores... anyone have good or bad experiences with it?

 

Started using it two days before our trip to China, on the airplane, which was a packed 747 with people coughing and sneezing all over, and continued using it in China. Five days into the trip, I got sick and my wife a day later. It stayed in our chests for a month. So the Airborne didn't do us much good.

[megessey]

Started using it two days before our trip to China, on the airplane, which was a packed 747 with people coughing and sneezing all over, and continued using it in China. Five days into the trip, I got sick and my wife a day later. It stayed in our chests for a month. So the Airborne didn't do us much good.

 

I figure there's alot of these stories, even though so many people swear by it -- even Oprah endorses it by gum! I wondered if Airbourne is very similar to Zicam... I've tried that twice at the start of getting sick and I just got as sick as I would be without it.

 

Also I know its not for the norovirus -- sorry if I've hijacked the thread :o