Curling iron

[Orange jeep]

Are curling irons for Womens hair allowed?

 

[mek]

3 minutes ago, Orange jeep said:

Are curling irons for Womens hair allowed?

 

Yes

[Hogbay]

5 hours ago, Orange jeep said:

Are curling irons for Womens hair allowed?

 

Yes , and hair dryers ,and flat straightener ..how  do I know.. only once said there are hair dryer on board .....bad mistake .

[Engineroom Snipe]

8 hours ago, Orange jeep said:

Are curling irons for Womens hair allowed?

 

 

Most curling irons use a maximum of about 150 watts (unit of power, current times voltage) at 120 volts alternating current (VAC). Some as little as 30 to 50 watts.

 

Just make sure it is not above 500 watts at 120 VAC and the cabin electrical system should handle it.

 

Many hair dryers sold domestically can go to 1500 watts at 120 VAC. This is the edge of a 15 Amp 120 VAC breaker and line in a land-based dwelling. If they are run continuously for over three hours which is possible in a hair salon (commercial establishment), it would require a dedicated 20-amp branch circuit.

 

To run this in a cabin, the ship would have to install larger current carrying conductors (cables) to each cabin beyond what is there now. This would cost more to build and add more weight. The electrical system source would need more reserve electrical capacity when many people start using them at the same time (before MDR seatings for example).

 

That is why they provide a hair dryer that is of lower wattage in the cabin, and they would like you to use a specific outlet when you use it in most cases. 

[chengkp75]

Shipboard cabin outlet circuits are 20 amp circuits, but they service 2-3 cabins.  So, the weight of hte wiring is already there.  The design maximum generating capacity is always more than the ship needs. Have never heard of a specific outlet being recommended, they are all on a common circuit.  They can handle 1800 watt hair dryers, provided the ladies in the adjacent cabins do not all plug in at once.  The reason the cruise lines supply hair dryers is because then they can take them out of service for routine inspection for faults, and replace as needed.

 

Many consumer hair dryers in the US are 1800 watts, so this will overload a 15 amp circuit.  Your house has, by code, a 20 amp circuit dedicated to a single bathroom's outlets (though if baths are directly above each other, you can do one circuit for two baths), just for this reason.

[RobInMN]

https://www.royalcaribbean.com/faq/questions/prohibited-items-onboard-policy

"Prohibited Items:

(Items that generate heat or produce an open flame. This includes heating pads, clothing irons, hotplates, candles, incense and any other item that may create a fire hazard. NOTE: The only exception to this policy are curling irons and hair straighteners. 

"

[Engineroom Snipe]

3 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Shipboard cabin outlet circuits are 20 amp circuits, but they service 2-3 cabins.  So, the weight of hte wiring is already there.  The design maximum generating capacity is always more than the ship needs. Have never heard of a specific outlet being recommended, they are all on a common circuit.  They can handle 1800 watt hair dryers, provided the ladies in the adjacent cabins do not all plug in at once.  The reason the cruise lines supply hair dryers is because then they can take them out of service for routine inspection for faults, and replace as needed.

 

Many consumer hair dryers in the US are 1800 watts, so this will overload a 15 amp circuit.  Your house has, by code, a 20 amp circuit dedicated to a single bathroom's outlets (though if baths are directly above each other, you can do one circuit for two baths), just for this reason.

 

For anyone not interested in electrical stuff, please skip this post.

 

 

You affirm my point as an electrical engineer.  To ensure that each cabin could power a 20-amp circuit simultaneously, they would have to run three feed lines (with individual breakers) instead of one. They saved weight and wiring by only running one branch from one breaker to three rooms, thus decreasing the peak availability (note availability and capacity are distinct items) per room according to instantaneous load factors of the other two. Each cabin has its own bathroom. Per the design you quote, the design engineer is willing to accept the possibility of tripping breakers (or assuming that three bathrooms will not be using more than 20 total amps) as a trade-off to save money by reducing total feeds. One feed for three cabins (and three bathrooms) instead of one feed per cabin and bathroom.

 

I know that RCI hair dryers are 1250 Watts because my wife complained on how long it took to dry her hair and I took a look at it. Most electrical engineers will admit that the 20-amp breakers can handle 1,680 watts continuously and 2,400 watts for up to three hours by design. It will take about five minutes to trip at 4000 watts due to three hair dryers and lights. Most breakers are inverse time/current breakers. The higher the current beyond breaker capacity, the quicker it trips. What are the odds of three passengers using three hair dryers at the same time for five minutes? While not the ideal design for absolute reliability, it is a tradeoff of cost and weight. A maritime engineer is going to want to reduce weight as it affects displacement and stability.

 

Electrical engineers on land have to worry about weight as it affects cable raceways, cable support, conduit supports, etc.

 

You mentioned dwellings which I do have much experience with.

 

Depending upon the year of the National Electrical Code (NEC), a dwelling could have many variations of electrical feeds. Some states allow Building Officials and Code Administrator (BOCA) codes to be used and substituted for the NEC if the engineer can quote the proper electrical code out of the appropriate section.

 

For many years, wet areas such as kitchens and sinks did not require GFCI outlets. When those homes are sold, they are not required to have GFCI outlets because the house was approved under the code in effect at the time.

 

The National Electrical Code is an ongoing discussion emerging from the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) which was originally created for the protection from the dangers of fire. Everything else emerged from that premise. 

 

All of the below changes were made over the years as a RESULT of fire or personal injury (to include death). Very few changes were proactive because it cost builders more money to put them in and their competitors will undercut them if the competitors do not.  Similar to airbags in cars, the manufacturers want the government to mandate them, so they are not at a price disadvantage for sales.

 

Bathrooms went from 15-amp shared circuits to 20-amp shared circuits: to 20-amp GFCI shared circuits: to 20-amp GFCI circuits for bathroom(s). I predict as time goes by, you will see it change to 20 amps GFCI per bathroom and then all bathroom receptacles will be GFCI, not just GFCI protected. When the 20 amp is shared with two bathrooms, code currently allows for one GFCI on the first receptacle to protect the remaining non-GFCI receptacles. This was due to the fact that many years ago, GFCI receptacles were expensive, not because it was a best practice.

I had my bathrooms wired for 20 amps on individual circuits with each receptacle being a GFCI back in 1991, far in excess of existing code. Why, because I am an electrical engineer, and this was a discussion going on at the time about home buyers who did not see the house built trying to figure out what GFCI covered what receptacles.  Should two people be sharing a bathroom (dual sinks are very popular in master bathrooms and main guest bathrooms), one can see that the other is using a hairdryer and not overload the circuit. Any guest can reset the GFCI without having to go to another bathroom, it is the receptacle that they are plugged into. A failure of one GFCI does not affect the remaining GFCIs. I never had to worry about someone else using a hair dryer in the main guest bathroom, i.e. my children, at the same time my wife wanted to use one in the master bathroom. My powder room had an individual circuit and GFCI. I envisioned my daughter having friends over and all of these circuits were going to be used at the same time. There is good, better, and best. How much does it cost?

 

While something can be safe and serve it purpose, my original comment was correct in that RCI is worried about wattage of the hair dryers or they would allow people to bring them onboard. They are not worried about maintenance because curling irons have power cords, and they can short-out and catch fire like any hair dryer. Power cords on electrical devices are recognized fire hazards as they dry out from age, start cracking from movement, and physically damaged when plugging them in and removing those plugs (many people just pull the cord instead of the end-plug, stressing the casings). 

 

They should be inspecting all electrical devices when brought on board that have a power cord if your reason was valid and they do not.

 

[chengkp75]

35 minutes ago, Engineroom Snipe said:

RCI is worried about wattage of the hair dryers or they would allow people to bring them onboard.

So, RCI ships are built differently than Carnival and NCL ships, which do allow people to bring hair dryers onboard?

 

37 minutes ago, Engineroom Snipe said:

decreasing the peak availability (note availability and capacity are distinct items)

 

3 hours ago, Engineroom Snipe said:

The electrical system source would need more reserve electrical capacity

I believe you were the one who mentioned "source" capacity.  Does this not refer to the generator capacity?

 

43 minutes ago, Engineroom Snipe said:

Each cabin has its own bathroom.

Not sure what this has to do with it, as no shipboard bathroom that I've ever seen has anything other than a razor outlet in it, which is on a different circuit (lighting) than the cabin outlets, and also is limited to about 40 milliamps.

[Engineroom Snipe]

1 minute ago, chengkp75 said:

So, RCI ships are built differently than Carnival and NCL ships, which do allow people to bring hair dryers onboard?

 

 

I believe you were the one who mentioned "source" capacity.  Does this not refer to the generator capacity?

 

Not sure what this has to do with it, as no shipboard bathroom that I've ever seen has anything other than a razor outlet in it, which is on a different circuit (lighting) than the cabin outlets, and also is limited to about 40 milliamps.

 

1. Great question, I was answering your reply to my original post. You stated that one 20-amp circuit was feeding three rooms. I have no Idea how the room power distribution is on any specific ship unless I was assigned to them.

 

2. Capacity referred to your answer of 20 amps being available to each outlet in the three rooms off of the one 20-amp circuit. 20 amps is available to any one outlet of the three rooms if they are the one and only outlet being used. If ten amps is being used in another room, a receptacle in my room has the capacity to conduct 20 amps but only 10 amps available before it trips the load breaker. Just because an outlet and cabling can conduct 20 amps does not always mean it is available to all outlets on the circuit (reduced capacity).

 

3. You are the one who mentioned how land-based bathrooms are wired in your answer in your reply to my original post. If you are not sure about what it has to do with my answer than why did you include it in your reply to my original post?

 

4. As far as source capacity, yes, it is important when calculating transformers, circuit breakers, and generation of electrical power. Using your answer about one 20-amp circuit per three rooms on a 6000 persons double occupancy would mean about 1000 circuits or about 2.4 Megawatts. One circuit per room would bring it to 7.2 Megawatts.  Since the amount of circuit breakers limit the amount of load on the generation of electricity, the designer can limit the fuel consumption and size of the associated electrical prime mover to the maximum of 2.4 Megawatts instead of 7.2 Megawatts. The ship might be designed with extra capacity but how much? Excessive capacity comes at a cost.

 

In another thread, you mentioned how if one of the main power plants is disabled, the ship is designed for that. The second one goes down and the speed goes down. The engineers did not want an excessive amount of generation capacity, or they would have designed the ship to go its designed speed on one main prime mover with two down. I am aware that there are other generators on board that handle non-propulsion electricity and I do not know how much extra capacity they have but excessive capacity would be part of a bad design which would increase the construction, operating, and maintenance costs.

 

So, by limiting the total 20-amp circuits needed, the source is reduced. The designer realizes that excess generation capacity cost weight and fuel (diesel generators operate at maximum efficiency at about 95% rated output).

 

My original reply, there must be a concern about the amount of wattage being used that RCI does not allow guest to bring hair dryers onboard. 

[chengkp75]

6 minutes ago, Engineroom Snipe said:

I am aware that there are other generators on board that handle non-propulsion electricity and I do not know how much extra capacity they have but excessive capacity would be part of a bad design which would increase the construction, operating, and maintenance costs.

There are no "other" generators onboard that "handle non-propulsion" load.  All generators connect to a common bus, and any generator will normally be supplying both propulsion and hotel load at the same time.  Take Oasis for example.  She has a maximum propulsion load of 60Mw.  She has generating capacity of 97Mw.  Typical hotel load for a ship that size is 11-12Mw (being generous here) so even at full speed, and full hotel load, you are only reaching 75% of capacity.  The ship has automation that starts another generator when total load reaches 85% (thanks for pointing out the optimum efficiency point of marine diesels, only spent 46 years working on them), and will shut down a generator when it calculates that the load minus the one generator's capacity is below 60%.  So, the ship's engines operate in the 60-85% range, usually closer to 80%, so there is adequate reserve capacity for all the hair dryers being turned on.

 

12 minutes ago, Engineroom Snipe said:

My original reply, there must be a concern about the amount of wattage being used that RCI does not allow guest to bring hair dryers onboard. 

And, again, I will say that it is a safety concern, not a wattage concern.  The largest source of failures with appliances of any type that have heating elements is not with the cord, but with the "overtemperature" or "auto-off" switch, which leads to melting of the appliance, and fire.  The ship's hair dryers, and coffee pots if supplied, are routinely tested for operation of the "auto-off" feature, and I've had one melt down while in the electrical shop for testing.  

 

15 minutes ago, Engineroom Snipe said:

You stated that one 20-amp circuit was feeding three rooms. I have no Idea how the room power distribution is on any specific ship unless I was assigned to them.

They are all the same.

 

But, I'll let this go.  There are plenty of lines that allow passengers to bring their hair dryers onboard.

[Engineroom Snipe]

7 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

But, I'll let this go.  There are plenty of lines that allow passengers to bring their hair dryers onboard.

 

Thank you so much for being so gracious in deciding to "let this go".  If I did not know better, I would think it be somewhat condescending and dismissive. 🤔

 

You have never walked in my shoes, and I have never walked in yours, so I guess we both will agree to "let this go." 🤐