Caribbean Princess Smell

[stevenr597]

On 4/17/2023 at 4:25 PM, oregonN said:

The barge you see is pumping fuel into the ships fuel storage tanks.

"Ships can hold their sewage until returning to shore.  Solid waste is held in storage tanks with aerobic bacteria, which begins digesting it while waiting for the return to port." Popular Science

 

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, stevenr597 said:

"Ships can hold their sewage until returning to shore.  Solid waste is held in storage tanks with aerobic bacteria, which begins digesting it while waiting for the return to port." Popular Science

 

So much wrong with that article, but I won't get into that.  The "helpful bacteria" actually digest waste from the liquid waste water, just as your septic tank does, or your municipal waste water plant does.  Once it goes through the aerobic "digester" tanks, then the remaining solids, which are primarily paper fibers (since the bacteria don't have as much time to digest wood fibers like your septic tank does) are indeed separated from the water, but the solid waste is allowed to be pumped overboard (it is more like a thick oatmeal consistency rather than solid), since the bacteria have removed all the harmful elements of the waste water (and the "helpful bacteria" remain in the digester tanks, not with the waste water flow to the separating devices).  I know of no cruise ship that pumps their solid waste water residue ashore.  It is legally allowed to be pumped overboard when more than 12 miles from land, except in a few restricted areas, and then it is held onboard until the ship is outside those areas.  I've spent 46 years operating and maintaining shipboard waste water treatment plants.

[Bobbiegentry]

9 hours ago, stevenr597 said:

"Ships can hold their sewage until returning to shore.  Solid waste is held in storage tanks with aerobic bacteria, which begins digesting it while waiting for the return to port." Popular Science

 

Challenging any marine related observation made by @chengkp75 is sheer folly and serves only to punctuate the inaccuracy of the mindset of the challenger  

[stevenr597]

13 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

So much wrong with that article, but I won't get into that.  The "helpful bacteria" actually digest waste from the liquid waste water, just as your septic tank does, or your municipal waste water plant does.  Once it goes through the aerobic "digester" tanks, then the remaining solids, which are primarily paper fibers (since the bacteria don't have as much time to digest wood fibers like your septic tank does) are indeed separated from the water, but the solid waste is allowed to be pumped overboard (it is more like a thick oatmeal consistency rather than solid), since the bacteria have removed all the harmful elements of the waste water (and the "helpful bacteria" remain in the digester tanks, not with the waste water flow to the separating devices).  I know of no cruise ship that pumps their solid waste water residue ashore.  It is legally allowed to be pumped overboard when more than 12 miles from land, except in a few restricted areas, and then it is held onboard until the ship is outside those areas.  I've spent 46 years operating and maintaining shipboard waste water treatment plants.

I have never said that cruise ships do not dump waste at sea. 

However, I also stand by my statement that, on several occasions, while boarding our cruise ship, we have seen a barge with a foul odor next to and hooked up to the ship.  We have asked the crew and were told that it is to recycle waste from the previous cruise. This is not to be confused with a barge refueling the ship with fuel. 

Suggest you re-read my comments. 

 
 

[LAS!!1414]

On 4/17/2023 at 1:05 PM, PacnGoNow said:

Ignore old posts.  Check current sailings since the drydock earlier last year.

 

We did 6 weeks last Feb/Mar and only smell we noticed mid ship Caribe deck, near the elevator. Was supposed to be fixed in dry dock from what I heard.

Many ships have issues periodically due to people trying to flush items or not using ship toilet paper.  

 

Hi -- Do u have more info on " the drydock earlier last year "  ??  Princess website list 2019 as the last update.

Thanks in advance for your reply

[PacnGoNow]

4 minutes ago, LAS!!1414 said:

Hi -- Do u have more info on " the drydock earlier last year "  ??  Princess website list 2019 as the last update.

Thanks in advance for your reply

No. The drydock was after we got off in March.  It sailed from PE through the canal and then Portland, OR for dry dock.

 

You might check CC for articles about the CP after April/May 2022 to see if there’s any information.  
 

It was not refurbished, just the normal updating, like replacing carpet, furnishings, deep cleaning, etc. I heard they worked on any things that were broken or needed servicing.  That’s all I know.

[chengkp75]

On 4/17/2023 at 3:37 PM, stevenr597 said:

They no longer have the ability to simply dump it at sea.

Sure sounds like you're saying they can't pump waste at sea to me.

 

On 4/17/2023 at 3:37 PM, stevenr597 said:

I believe it is from the ship having to hold and store sewage.

The word "having" in regards to retaining waste water implies that they cannot pump it at sea, for another example of your statements.

[chengkp75]

18 minutes ago, PacnGoNow said:

No. The drydock was after we got off in March.  It sailed from PE through the canal and then Portland, OR for dry dock.

Yes, Lloyds Register shows Caribbean Princess' last dry dock as March/April 2022.

[stevenr597]

3 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Sure sounds like you're saying they can't pump waste at sea to me.

 

The word "having" in regards to retaining waste water implies that they cannot pump it at sea, for another example of your statements.

Suggest you re-read my statements again.  I said that we had detected on several occasions an odor from the ship from time to time.  We were told that this was due to reprocessing of waste.  That cruise ships no longer had the ability to simply dump waste at sea, that they are treated.

In addition, we were told and we did observe cruise ships pumping waste into barges at the start of the cruise from the previous voyage.  This was confirmed to us by the crew. 

Stand by my comments.  

[Bobbiegentry]

“Being ignorant is not so much a shame, as being unwilling to learn.”

Benjiman Franklin

[stevenr597]

From a description of how RCCL handles waste on the Symphony of the Seas, “

All the wastewater onboard is collected and absolutely nothing goes overboard unless it is first run through a treatment plant. 

 

 

[chengkp75]

11 minutes ago, stevenr597 said:

From a description of how RCCL handles waste on the Symphony of the Seas, “

All the wastewater onboard is collected and absolutely nothing goes overboard unless it is first run through a treatment plant. 

 

 

And that is supposed to prove that sewage is retained and pumped to barges in port?  What part of that quote says that?  It says exactly what I said, all sewage is treated onboard, and then goes overboard.

[chengkp75]

27 minutes ago, stevenr597 said:

In addition, we were told and we did observe cruise ships pumping waste into barges at the start of the cruise from the previous voyage.  This was confirmed to us by the crew. 

What crew was this?  Your cabin steward?  I've found that most of the hotel staff I've worked with, have absolutely no idea what goes on in the technical departments.  I would bet that those barges are receiving oily waste and sludge, which due to retention in tanks as an oil/water mixture can get pretty rank when pumped.  Discharging oily waste and sludge (bilge water and fuel processing waste) is pretty common, while discharging sewage sludge ashore (at a cost), when it can be discharged at sea for free, is almost unheard of, unless the treatment plant has failed, and then the ship doesn't have enough tankage to hold all the waste water for an entire cruise.

[brisalta]

22 hours ago, waltd said:

Over the many years we have been traveling  we have smelled  the sewage odor on  every Grand Class ship we have sailed on.   Usually in the hallways.  Not in the staterooms.   It goes and comes for short periods of time.   Now that I think about it have not smelled the odor on any of the Royal Class ships we have been on.    Part of cruising. 🙂

 

Do not walk so close behind certain people. 😉

Edited April 19, 2023 by brisalta

[stevenr597]

3 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

What crew was this?  Your cabin steward?  I've found that most of the hotel staff I've worked with, have absolutely no idea what goes on in the technical departments.  I would bet that those barges are receiving oily waste and sludge, which due to retention in tanks as an oil/water mixture can get pretty rank when pumped.  Discharging oily waste and sludge (bilge water and fuel processing waste) is pretty common, while discharging sewage sludge ashore (at a cost), when it can be discharged at sea for free, is almost unheard of, unless the treatment plant has failed, and then the ship doesn't have enough tankage to hold all the waste water for an entire cruise.

Of course I was not going to ask a crew member for his qualifications in regards to a barge along side our ship with pipes running from the ship into the barge with the smell of sewage coming from the barge.  

Next time I witness this, I will be sure to ask his qualifications and take a photograph of both the crewman and the barge for your inspection. 🤣

[stevenr597]

3 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

And that is supposed to prove that sewage is retained and pumped to barges in port?  What part of that quote says that?  It says exactly what I said, all sewage is treated onboard, and then goes overboard.

That an my observations.  Do you have statements from the cruise line that they do not pump sludge and other wasteproducts out to a barge for recycling and disposal at the end of a cruise.  That they dump all waste at sea.

Hmmmmmmmm.....

[stevenr597]

"Ships can hold their sewage until returning to shore. They have “marine sanitation farms,” which treat the water part of the waste so it can be released into the ocean. Solid waste is held in storage tanks with aerobic bacteria, which begins digesting it while waiting for the return to port."

P.S.  Nobody is denying that cruise ships do dump waste into the ocean.  But...they do process waste which is why one may smell the odor of garbage at various time in various sections of the ship on any given day.

But a modern cruise ship does try to process such waste and yes, they do return some of this sewage back to port. 

 

[chengkp75]

39 minutes ago, stevenr597 said:

"Ships can hold their sewage until returning to shore. They have “marine sanitation farms,” which treat the water part of the waste so it can be released into the ocean. Solid waste is held in storage tanks with aerobic bacteria, which begins digesting it while waiting for the return to port."

Love to know the qualifications of the writer of this one article you seem to take as gospel.  How do you pump a solid?

 

39 minutes ago, stevenr597 said:

P.S.  Nobody is denying that cruise ships do dump waste into the ocean.  But...they do process waste which is why one may smell the odor of garbage at various time in various sections of the ship on any given day.

And, why would their treating sewage cause smells at various locations and various times?  And, why not at other times and places?  The sewage treatment plant operates continuously.  As I've stated, sewage treatment plants on ships that I have worked with, do not cause odors in the engine room, let alone other places around the ship.  However, as I have stated, a dry drain trap will cause odors to back up from the tanks, just like when you open a summer home and the sink traps are all dry.

 

39 minutes ago, stevenr597 said:

But a modern cruise ship does try to process such waste and yes, they do return some of this sewage back to port. 

They do more than "try" to process such waste, they do better than most municipal waste plants.  And, again, what would be the justification for paying for disposal of waste ashore, when they can dispose of it themselves for free, completely legally.

 

But, I'll let you continue with your idea of how a ship handles sewage, it's not what folks are interested in for this thread, nor what causes the odors they are asking about.

Edited April 19, 2023 by chengkp75

[Jadn13]

I have walked a majority of this ship this week through the cabin corridors and haven’t noticed any smells as of today. 

[MissP22]

I suspect a lot of the smell has to do with the direction of the wind- if it's being blown back into the air discharge ducts or not.

[stevenr597]

15 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Love to know the qualifications of the writer of this one article you seem to take as gospel.  How do you pump a solid?

 

And, why would their treating sewage cause smells at various locations and various times?  And, why not at other times and places?  The sewage treatment plant operates continuously.  As I've stated, sewage treatment plants on ships that I have worked with, do not cause odors in the engine room, let alone other places around the ship.  However, as I have stated, a dry drain trap will cause odors to back up from the tanks, just like when you open a summer home and the sink traps are all dry.

 

They do more than "try" to process such waste, they do better than most municipal waste plants.  And, again, what would be the justification for paying for disposal of waste ashore, when they can dispose of it themselves for free, completely legally.

 

But, I'll let you continue with your idea of how a ship handles sewage, it's not what folks are interested in for this thread, nor what causes the odors they are asking about.

You see to be very interested, almost obsessive in respect to my comments.  

As I said, from time to time we have detected an odor in ships from Celebrity, RCCL, Carnival and Princess.  When we asked the crew we were told that it is involves processing of waste on board the ship.  When we have boarded ships of these lines in the past, we also have detected odors from a barge attached to the ship and were told by crew that it was pumping out waste material. 

[brisalta]

6 hours ago, stevenr597 said:

You see to be very interested, almost obsessive in respect to my comments.  

As I said, from time to time we have detected an odor in ships from Celebrity, RCCL, Carnival and Princess.  When we asked the crew we were told that it is involves processing of waste on board the ship.  When we have boarded ships of these lines in the past, we also have detected odors from a barge attached to the ship and were told by crew that it was pumping out waste material. 

 

You do realize what the first part chengkp75 stands for?

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I will give you a minute to think about it.

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Chief engineer.

Until he recently retired @chengkp75 was chief engineer on ships including cruise ships.  I suspect that he is much more qualified in the field than you think you are.

Edited April 20, 2023 by brisalta

[stevenr597]

1 hour ago, brisalta said:

 

You do realize what the first part chengkp75 stands for?

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I will give you a minute to think about it.

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Chief engineer.

Until he recently retired @chengkp75 was chief engineer on ships including cruise ships.  I suspect that he is much more qualified in the field than you think you are.

My stateman is based on my readings, some of which I quoted, what as a frequent cruiser,  I personally observed, and what members of the crew have told me.

While I do respect your right, and the "gentleman in question" to disagree with my statements, I do stand by my comments. 

To summarize:

I have on several occasions detected odors on cruise ships including those from RCCL, Celebrity, Carnival and Princess.  These odors occured at certain times of the day and on specific locations of the ship.  I was told by crew that this was due to "reprocessing waste."

In addition, on several occasions when we boarded our cruise ship and stepped out on the balcony we had smelled the odor of "garbage or sewage"  We did notice a barge next to our ship with pipes connect both vessels.  A member of the crew told us that this was due to pumping out sewage from the previous cruise.

I do suggest that you read up on how modern cruise ships reprocess waste.

But thank you for your comments. 

[stevenr597]

1 hour ago, brisalta said:

 

You do realize what the first part chengkp75 stands for?

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.

.

I will give you a minute to think about it.

.

.

.

Chief engineer.

Until he recently retired @chengkp75 was chief engineer on ships including cruise ships.  I suspect that he is much more qualified in the field than you think you are.

Here is some more information in respect to Princess.  Think about it, especially the comment, "or offloaded"

 

Princess Cruises

 

Pacific Princess (Photo: Princess Cruises)

 

Onboard Policies

Princess has equipped its entire fleet with state-of-the-art waste management equipment, and all solid waste is incinerated, recycled or offloaded for other disposal. To minimize plastics, Princess works with suppliers to replace plastic packaging with biodegradable materials and to eliminate or reduce packaging materials. Princess is currently investing in exhaust gas cleaning systems technology to enable 14 of its ships to run with more fuel efficiency on lower sulfur fuel, by 2020.

[stevenr597]

1 hour ago, brisalta said:

 

You do realize what the first part chengkp75 stands for?

.

.

.

I will give you a minute to think about it.

.

.

.

Chief engineer.

Until he recently retired @chengkp75 was chief engineer on ships including cruise ships.  I suspect that he is much more qualified in the field than you think you are.

Carnival which is part of the same company (Carnival Corporation) has adopted much of the same, perhaps even more extensive policies in regards to the disposal of waste and reduce pollution. 

 

Carnival Cruise Line

 

Carnival Sensation (Photo:EPP)

 

Onboard Policies

Carnival recycles, incinerates or offloads a multitude of materials (plastic, glass, aluminum, scrap metal, cooking oil, petroleum oil, toner cartridges, electronics, refrigerants and photo processing liquids) from its ships for disposal on land. Ships process and incinerate solid waste onboard whenever possible or send it to an approved shoreside facility for treatment, recycling or disposal. Even oily bilge water is subjected to its own three-step engineering process.