Crew Kickbacks

[Old As Dirt Mom]

I'm only just now reading Devils on the Deep Blue Sea by Kristoffer A. Garin, and much of it is quite a revelation to me (I guess I lead a pretty sheltered life, or I'm kind of naive.) One section talks about living and working conditions for crew members, and how the "kickback" system is a basic component of life onboard.

 

I quote: "Without paying the appropriate kickbacks, it's very dificult for a tip worker to provide the services passengers expect, without which they stand little chance of earning what they need to pay the kickbacks....Cabin attendants have to pay a fee to the laundry chief in order to get clean sets of sheets on time; waiters not only have to pay the cooks to make sure their food comes out hot, but also their maitre d' to secure a big table....Employers look the other way or even encourage the practice..."

 

I'd appreciate any insight or pertinent comments. I don't intend for this to become a heated debate; I really haven't considered this aspect of crew working conditions, and I want to ascertain its veracity. Thank you.

[dakrewser]

This isn't something that's limited to cruise lines - it's common throughout the hospitality industry. For ever server you see, and who you tip, there may be 6-10 others "behind the scenes" providing services to that server. In a restaurant, the waiters will split tips with the busboys, "table runners," hosts/hostesses, sous-chefs, etc.

 

HAL's auto-tipping policy, which distributes part of the tip to those "behind the scenes" workers, goes a long way towards evening out this practise.

[jhannah]

I believe this is exactly why HAL went this route ... to openly "share the wealth" with these other folks and soften the blatant practices of the past.

[kryos]

In a restaurant, the waiters will split tips with the busboys, "table runners," hosts/hostesses, sous-chefs, etc.

And here I thought I was being original. I only worked as a server for one summer ... right after I graduated high school. I worked at a popular breakfast type restaurant at the Jersey shore.

 

Every server got so many tables on a given day, depending upon how big they were. This way, each server would only get to serve so many people ... hence the opportunity to make so much in tips. Since the breakfast "rush" only lasted so many hours ... once it got to be around 11:00 a.m., the crowds would dwindle because everyone was headed to the beach, so you had to make your money in that window or you didn't make it.

 

I would generally start at about 7:00 a.m. and work until 1:00. Since you only had about 2.5 to 3.00 good hours in there, you had to make them count by getting your customers taken care of rapidly and then out the door.

 

Well, I discovered that it didn't matter a hoot if my customers were finished with their meal and out the door ... I wasn't gonna get any new customers at that vacant table unless it was clean. So, I realized that I needed to "motivate" the busboy to take care of my tables first ... so that I could take care of more customers ... and make more tips.

 

Now, we had a policy ... 15% of your tips to the busboy; 15% to the setter/hostess. Well, if everyone was giving the busboy 15% then I had to give him more. I got into a habit of sliding the busboy $5 bucks at the top of the shift. (Remember, this was many, many years ago when $5 bucks was a big deal.) Guess what? I generally made more tips than any of my co-workers. I couldn't believe others weren't wise enough to adopt this same practice ... but apparently none of them even thought of it ... and they couldn't understand how come I was making a good $10 to $15 more than them each day.

 

Guess I was greedy even back then. :) I figured that it was worth it to part with the extra $5 to make an extra $15. :)

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[tomc]

I believe most libraries shelve that book under "fiction," or "truthiness."

[Thunderbolt]

Back in my youth I was a busboy… (boy at 19?). My tips came from the waitress’ and some paid good and other punished me for any excuse they could think up to keep the whole tip for them selves.

This concept sounds logical and a little displeasing. That is why I make sure those who provide me a service with a smile get BIG tips. I NEVER forget the days that I lived on tips.

[sail7seas]

I read it......took a lot of it with a grain of salt. Some things in it were obvious ....obviously biased in some other cases. I don't know all the ins and outs of the cruise industry and don't pretend to but I didn't get very upset reading this (as I would have) if I believed all of it. I care too much about the crews on the ships to want to believe they are subjected to some situations that book proports. JMHO, of course, and everyone can decide for themselves.

 

[ocngypz]

Poppycock.

 

If conditions were so bad.. and the pay so bad, not a soul would sign up for a second contract.

[Nasmas]

Maybe, maybe not. I think that possibly horrendous conditions on the ship are better than what some of the people have at home, and that's why they are so eager to work on the ships. One bartender told my hubby once, before the automatic tip went into effect, not to put the tip on the tab, because the servers dont' get it. I don't know if that was true but we started carrying dollar bills with us, just in case. I'd hate to think that HAL would do that to them but we weren't taking any chances. I do know that some of those people must work 18 hours a day. They seem to always be on duty somewhere. Years ago, when you got off the ship, you had to get your beach towels from the cabin steward, and they told us that if we didnt' bring them back, they had to pay for them.

[sail7seas]

HAL never provided any space on the bar checks to write in a tip. No one ever said that tips should be written on the tab. It was information that was easily obtained simply by asking. The bartender was correct to say this to you but it was not to imply HAL was 'cheating' the staff. It was because their system had no provision for written in tips. Now, a tip is automatically charged on every beverage slip....so still, there is no provision for the guest to write it on. If you wish to tip more than the automatically charged amount, you must do so in cash.....same as always on HAL.

 

Other cruiselines might have provision for writing it on.....I don't know about that.

 

[sail7seas]

As to not returned beach towels.......

 

A Chief Housekeeper on the ship once told us a story how he gathered a few deck stewards and sent them in taxis to 9 mile (or 12 mile or however long it is) Beach in Grand Cayman with instructions to bring back all the beach towels they could locate that obviously were HAL's blue towels.

 

Those taxis were jammed packed full of towels that guests simply didn't bother to bring back with them.

 

Other cruiselines (ie Princess) has cabin stewards issue a single beach towel per passenger. If you do not return it, the GUEST pays for it. If your towel is wet or nasty and you want another during the day, I have no idea how many hoops you have to jump through to get one. On HAL, the bins at the pool constantly are freshly supplied with clean towels and they are given out on the gangway.

 

It all goes back to us.....if we are responsible and return them, HAL will probably continue to issue them to us on request as now. If we keep leaving them on all the beaches all over the Caribbean....What would you DO if they were your towels that people didn't bother to carry back with them?

 

I'd start having people sign for them and pay for them if not returned.

 

It's up to us!!!!

 

[Nasmas]

HAL never provided any space on the bar checks to write in a tip. No one ever said that tips should be written on the tab. It was information that was easily obtained simply by asking. The bartender was correct to say this to you but it was not to imply HAL was 'cheating' the staff. It was because their system had no provision for written in tips. Now, a tip is automatically charged on every beverage slip....so still, there is no provision for the guest to write it on. If you wish to tip more than the automatically charged amount, you must do so in cash.....same as always on HAL.

 

Other cruiselines might have provision for writing it on.....I don't know about that.

 

I beg to differ with you. There were lines for tips years ago. I dont' know when they did away with them, but we had always done it until that time. I specifically remember this on the old Ms New Amsterdam.

[peaches from georgia]

It's entirely plausible that without a tip line some pax just wrote in a tip somewhere on the tab, not asking but assuming if they wrote it in it would be charged to their account and the steward would receive the tip from HAL. Many people do not carry cash around the ship because it is a cashless society and most pax wouldn't even ask about the lack of a tip line but would assume their writing it in was enough. Not everyone knows the minutae of every HAL policy.

 

Because there was no provision to award the stewards these hand-written tips nor to charge the pax acct., it makes sense that the stewards felt 'cheated' that they did not receive the tip that the pax intended.

[sail7seas]

I beg to differ with you. There were lines for tips years ago. I dont' know when they did away with them, but we had always done it until that time. I specifically remember this on the old Ms New Amsterdam.

 

 

:D You're dating yourself. ;)

 

The Nieuw Amsterdam entered service in 1983. If you are going back to that time (some 23 years), I suppose perhaps they did have a tip line then. I am fairly sure that for at least the last 18+ years, there has been no tip line included on bar checks......

[Sunshine91]

On HAL, the bins at the pool constantly are freshly supplied with clean towels and they are given out on the gangway.

 

It all goes back to us.....if we are responsible and return them, HAL will probably continue to issue them to us on request as now. If we keep leaving them on all the beaches all over the Caribbean....What would you DO if they were your towels that people didn't bother to carry back with them?

 

I'd start having people sign for them and pay for them if not returned.

 

It's up to us!!!!

 

I quite agree. I know it's "only a couple of beach towels" but I was amazed at how irresponsible folks were. The husband & I did a snorkel trip on Grand Turk during Noordam's inaugural cruise. We happened to be the last ones off the snorkeling boat when it returned to the dock. Everyone else had gathered their own belongings & departed but 2 blue towels were left behind. We offered to take those back to the ship along with our own. The captain & crew actually seemed surprised that someone would offer to do that. To us it wasn't a big deal - just the right thing to do.

[Tricia724]

Other cruiselines might have provision for writing it on.....I don't know about that.

 

Celebrity and Royal Caribbean add a standard 15% tip onto the beverages...then there is another line for "additional tip for excellent service." I didn't see that option on my 2004 Celebrity cruise, but it was there in 2005. It was also on our tabs on RCCL recently. Maybe it's a trend that will be showing up on the HAL ships in the future. I feel like I'm a fairly generous person, but sometimes I get weary wondering just how much is enough.

[Nasmas]

:D You're dating yourself. ;)

 

The Nieuw Amsterdam entered service in 1983. If you are going back to that time (some 23 years), I suppose perhaps they did have a tip line then. I am fairly sure that for at least the last 18+ years, there has been no tip line included on bar checks......

 

I dont' go back quite that far, but it has been awhile. But, the thing is, if they didn't have any provisions for distributing the tips, they should have told the passengers not to put them on the tabs. Either way, the waiter got ripped.

[bepsf]

Maybe, maybe not. I think that possibly horrendous conditions on the ship are better than what some of the people have at home, and that's why they are so eager to work on the ships. One bartender told my hubby once, before the automatic tip went into effect, not to put the tip on the tab, because the servers dont' get it. I don't know if that was true but we started carrying dollar bills with us, just in case. I'd hate to think that HAL would do that to them but we weren't taking any chances. I do know that some of those people must work 18 hours a day. They seem to always be on duty somewhere. Years ago, when you got off the ship, you had to get your beach towels from the cabin steward, and they told us that if we didnt' bring them back, they had to pay for them.

 

If you read the book, youd understand that the writer is referring to conditions on older ships - most of which are out of service now. Much of the 'shocking' conditions and circumstances discussed at length in the book are from the early years - they no longer apply today.

 

Newer ships have much better conditions and facilities for their staff. Crew from different ships tend to talk to one another in port too, so they know which lines have better conditions/pay than others.

[sunflowerstarr]

I believe most libraries shelve that book under "fiction," or "truthiness."

 

 

lol i hope idont hear about this on the colbert report soon

[AAAAmerican]

As there are two ends usually to a tale... a tail... ____++++++++++++

 

In Las Vegas, Nevada once we went on a Bus Trip and that Driver had the audacity of not just having a Big Sign saying Five Dollar Tip was expected.. but he announced this also...

 

Talk about having Brass Ball Bearings...

 

When people ask for a gatuity it is begging and not accepable behavour...

 

Even fairly recently I took my wife and inlaws to a what had been a 5 star location and the waitress had those ball bearings too .. she wrote on my bill Sug gratuity $57.80 ... that is some gumption.. :mad: :mad:

I still have this on my desk ...

 

So yes there are two ends...

 

Rewarding good services is important so they are carried on and forward...:D

and the other end is there abuses...

[Nasmas]

Yes, there really are some big ones out there. My husband and I were deep sea fishing in Florida one year and we had just spent $500 to charter a boat. There were three crew members and we tipped what we thought was generous because they really didn't do much for us. No fish. I know that's not their fault but they didnt' have to do anything. We left to get in the car and one of the guys chased us down and said the tip was unsatisfactory. I wanted to ask him to give it back and we'd not tip anything but my hubby, sweetie that he is, wouldnt' let me. I couldnt' believe the audacity.

[Himself]

Some people are lousy tippers, some are not. Some give what they feel apropos and some reciepients of tips want MORE. I think it is a way out of order. Tipping is a way of saying "Thank You." Some people deserve much more than 20%. With the service some give, 10% is far too generous. But I always understood that the customer determined the tip, not the reciepient of the tip.