Why haven't daily gratuities gone down?

[BennyandBo]

1 minute ago, topnole said:

This is true and what it would be using that other persons logic (that they grossly exaggerated).  But the point remains, the customer would still be paying for it.  So if tips weren’t part of they deal, the cruise lines would simple raise cruise fares to recoup the labor cost.  Either way, the customer is going to pay for it.  There are pros and cons to each system.  At least with tips the workers are incentivized.  One downside is the final cost often isn’t clear to all.  
 

But the argument that Royal is just making us pay their labor costs and that is somehow wrong is laughable.  Every business has the customers pay the labor cost (via the price charged for the product or service).  If they don’t, they will be out of business.  In the service industry this is often done via tips.  But either way the customer is paying it.  

Like someone just pointed out. Virgins fare includes the the gratuities and the the rates are not $3000 to $4000 more. Also everyone says the service is great. 

[topnole]

1 minute ago, BennyandBo said:

Like someone just pointed out. Virgins fare includes the the gratuities and the the rates are not $3000 to $4000 more. Also everyone says the service is great. 

Didn’t you point out it would only need to be 200-300 more to cover tips in a prior post.  Why would it need to be 3000-4000 more cover tips going by your prior logic?   
 

You think Virgin isn’t charging a price that covers labor cost?  If so, I’ve got a bridge to sell you.  

They are either charging more up front and not leaving it to passengers to tip.  Either way the customer is paying it.  This isn’t even something to debate. Anyone who took basic economics in middle school knows this. 

[PWP-001]

40 minutes ago, The_Big_M said:

 

Tips aren't paid per "time/hour". Tips are paid per cabin/person. So more rooms necessarily means more tips.

Give them a chance to publish a new gratuity allocation where the amount paid per room has decreased and Other Hotel Services has increased. 
 

I bet you’ll see the math works out the same.

[BennyandBo]

58 minutes ago, topnole said:

Didn’t you point out it would only need to be 200-300 more to cover tips in a prior post.  Why would it need to be 3000-4000 more cover tips going by your prior logic?   
 

You think Virgin isn’t charging a price that covers labor cost?  If so, I’ve got a bridge to sell you.  

They are either charging more up front and not leaving it to passengers to tip.  Either way the customer is paying it.  This isn’t even something to debate. Anyone who took basic economics in middle school knows this. 

Virgin does charge more upfront. And it works. 

[taglovestocruise]

20 minutes ago, Cru1s1ng2009 said:

every.single.time. 

 

And the sad thing is, those who want it as part of the fare feel their way is superior because 'dumb americans' but by their same logic, you are still paying for it. just giving it to corporate instead. Make it make sense... 

If it is part of the cruise fare everyone is paying, system now allows the losers to opt out requiring the cruise line to bump up grats on those that pay. 

[BennyandBo]

Automatic gratuities can be removed at any time for any reason by going to guests services and requesting they be removed. Or by calling guest services from your cabin. It's that simple.

[PWP-001]

7 minutes ago, XLVIII said:

For every business in the world, there is only one source of income. YOU, the customer. If you want to cruise on RCL (or any of the other cruise lines), then I’m sorry, but it is. 

Well, there's another way to handle the debt problem which I'll mention in a moment.  But first let me agree with you while changing he word from "income" to PROFIT which would be more accurate.

 

RCI is working to increase PROFIT and cash flows to service debt through a combination of  increasing income and reducing expenses. 

 

The alteration of housekeeping service while not lowering the gratuity is one of those initiatives.

 

It all may not be enough.

 

So.... they MAY have to entertain a Chapter 11 Bankruptcy.  

[Cru1s1ng2009]

2 minutes ago, BennyandBo said:

Automatic gratuities can be removed at any time for any reason by going to guests services and requesting they be removed. Or by calling guest services from your cabin. It's that simple.

and therein lies the problem. This is why we cant stand the 'non-tippers'. 

[Cru1s1ng2009]

14 minutes ago, taglovestocruise said:

If it is part of the cruise fare everyone is paying, system now allows the losers to opt out requiring the cruise line to bump up grats on those that pay. 

which is why maybe having it in the fare without the possibility of removing might be the way to go. Those who tip well, will still give more like we already do and those who dont wont have an option. 

 

 

[PWP-001]

4 minutes ago, Cru1s1ng2009 said:

and therein lies the problem. This is why we cant stand the 'non-tippers'. 

 

I used to think negatively of those that removed the DSC as they had their own method of tipping they used instead.  (Sure, there are probably some that can make the cruise affordable by having them removed without any intention of an alternate tipping plan.)

 

But ask yourself this... IF it really WAS a "problem" when passengers remove the DSC, then don't you think RCI would have barred the practice to eliminate the problem, making DSC mandatory?

 

More likely the numbers that do are truly insignificant, as I posted earlier, given that >43% is retained by RCI anyways.

[BennyandBo]

7 minutes ago, Cru1s1ng2009 said:

which is why maybe having it in the fare without the possibility of removing might be the way to go. Those who tip well, will still give more like we already do and those who dont wont have an option. 

 

 

But right now they do

[Cru1s1ng2009]

1 minute ago, PWP-001 said:

 

I used to think negatively of those that removed the DSC as they had their own method of tipping they used instead.  (Sure, there are probably some that can make the cruise affordable by having them removed without any intention of an alternate tipping plan.)

 

But ask yourself this... IF it really WAS a "problem" when passengers remove the DSC, then don't you think RCI would have barred the practice to eliminate the problem, making DSC mandatory?

 

More likely the numbers that do are truly insignificant, as I posted earlier, given that >43% is retained by RCI anyways.

this is like saying chair hogs are insignificant since they only take up about 5% of the chairs. It still chaps others behinds. 

 

Also, i have about the same % taken out of my check also. I dont like it, but i like roads and people putting out my house if it is on fire. So i pay it and accept. 

 

If RCCI is actually taking that much, why would it matter then if it was added into the cost of the cruise fare? It is 6 in one and half a dozen in the other. 

 

[XLVIII]

15 minutes ago, PWP-001 said:

Well, there's another way to handle the debt problem which I'll mention in a moment.  But first let me agree with you while changing he word from "income" to PROFIT which would be more accurate.

 

RCI is working to increase PROFIT and cash flows to service debt through a combination of  increasing income and reducing expenses. 

 

The alteration of housekeeping service while not lowering the gratuity is one of those initiatives.

 

It all may not be enough.

 

So.... they MAY have to entertain a Chapter 11 Bankruptcy.  

You’re right, it’s not going to be enough. There will be more cutbacks and price increases to come. The good news is that their financial update last week was very good. Record bookings at record prices. Stock price up almost $10 in a week. I think of all three main cruise companies, RCL is best positioned to avoid bankruptcy. 

[Oceansaway17]

So I have read all posts an I think it is time to lock this thread down.

other threads with lesser meanness have gone away quicker.

not sure why this thread is still thriving given some of the comments

[UNCFanatik]

11 minutes ago, Cru1s1ng2009 said:

this is like saying chair hogs are insignificant since they only take up about 5% of the chairs. It still chaps others behinds. 

 

Also, i have about the same % taken out of my check also. I dont like it, but i like roads and people putting out my house if it is on fire. So i pay it and accept. 

 

If RCCI is actually taking that much, why would it matter then if it was added into the cost of the cruise fare? It is 6 in one and half a dozen in the other. 

 

The gratuity system allows Royal to pay crew less and also be competitive with other cruise lines in their fares. If Royal thought their customer base could handle increased fares with doing away with auto gratuities, they would have done it by now. And who knows, maybe it will happen in future

 

Virgin rolled out with their fare structure with no daily gratuities because they were a new player

 

Taxes are not akin to gratuities. But since you made the analogy, wouldnt it be nice if you had no childrenyou could opt out of the portion of the taxes that went to schools? 

[PWP-001]

6 minutes ago, XLVIII said:

You’re right, it’s not going to be enough. There will be more cutbacks and price increases to come. The good news is that their financial update last week was very good. Record bookings at record prices. Stock price up almost $10 in a week. I think of all three main cruise companies, RCL is best positioned to avoid bankruptcy. 

 

At the end of the day, there's only so many cuts to service and price increases passengers will tolerate before  altering their vacation plans to where they feel they find better value.

 

Record bookings at record prices does sound good.  But when you looked at their first quarter performance when I believe reflects "record bookings" realized with near full ships with those record prices--- all those good things baked in the first quarter results-- was the operating profit sufficient to service debt?  As I looked at the financials, I determined the answer to be "NO"

 

Perhaps this is why we have housekeeping cuts without a reduction in the gratuity.  (Just staying on topic and bringing this full circle.)

 

[Cru1s1ng2009]

10 minutes ago, UNCFanatik said:

The gratuity system allows Royal to pay crew less and also be competitive with other cruise lines in their fares. If Royal thought their customer base could handle increased fares with doing away with auto gratuities, they would have done it by now. And who knows, maybe it will happen in future

 

Virgin rolled out with their fare structure with no daily gratuities because they were a new player

 

Taxes are not akin to gratuities. But since you made the analogy, wouldnt it be nice if you had no childrenyou could opt out of the portion of the taxes that went to schools? 

Great Question! I would love to get out of it but i dont expect to be treated like the special snowflake (not politically speaking) when everyone else is hoofing the bill. Also, i dont want my kids school for free like the non-tippers expect their service to be. 

 

also, i cant afford virgin. i dont think their higher price is just grats. 

 

But i agree, they should make it where people cant remove them. And i dont want them to just add it into the fare, i want the non-tippers to see it and be mad. 😂

Edited May 8, 2023 by Cru1s1ng2009
refre

[UNCFanatik]

3 minutes ago, PWP-001 said:

 

At the end of the day, there's only so many cuts to service and price increases passengers will tolerate before  altering their vacation plans to where they feel they find better value.

 

Record bookings at record prices does sound good.  But when you looked at their first quarter performance when I believe reflects "record bookings" realized with near full ships with those record prices--- all those good things baked in the first quarter results-- was the operating profit sufficient to service debt?  As I looked at the financials, I determined the answer to be "NO"

 

Perhaps this is why we have housekeeping cuts without a reduction in the gratuity.  (Just staying on topic and bringing this full circle.)

 

 

But there in lies the rub, cutbacks + increased pricing creates a problem. How to retain loyal customers who notice the cutbacks and are questioning the value proposition while at the same time attracting new customers

 

 

[BennyandBo]

4 minutes ago, Cru1s1ng2009 said:

Listen, i get it. I travel in guaranteed closets and dont gamble or spend my money of dumb stuff. But if they added it into the fare cost you would still be paying it. it just sounds like you are getting over on the system in place. When people do that in real life they get criminal charges. 

No criminal charges for being a average tipper. No criminal charges for being a non tipper. That was a bit over the top.

[UNCFanatik]

5 minutes ago, Cru1s1ng2009 said:

Listen, i get it. I travel in guaranteed closets and dont gamble or spend my money of dumb stuff. But if they added it into the fare cost you would still be paying it. it just sounds like you are getting over on the system in place. When people do that in real life they get criminal charges. 

 

So you equate removing auto gratuities to a criminal act? Seriously?

[PWP-001]

21 minutes ago, Cru1s1ng2009 said:

this is like saying chair hogs are insignificant since they only take up about 5% of the chairs. It still chaps others behinds.   As they say... "Don't sweat the small stuff." 

 

Also, i have about the same % taken out of my check also. I dont like it, but i like roads and people putting out my house if it is on fire. So i pay it and accept.   They also say:  "Girl:  you do you!"

 

If RCCI is actually taking that much, why would it matter then if it was added into the cost of the cruise fare? It is 6 in one and half a dozen in the other.   Competitive published fares seem more attractive when they are lower and DSC just gets added on.

 

 

Responses in red.

[Cru1s1ng2009]

Just now, BennyandBo said:

No criminal charges for being a average tipper. No criminal charges for being a non tipper. That was a bit over the top.

Of course it is but so is this thread and every other tipping thread. Tipping is in our culture. Change the culture or accept it. 

But yes, when you take money out of someone's pocket in real life you get charged for it😅

[UNCFanatik]

2 minutes ago, Cru1s1ng2009 said:

Great Question! I would love to get out of it but i dont expect to be treated like the special snowflake (not politically speaking) when everyone else is hoofing the bill. Also, i dont want my kids school for free like the non-tippers expect their service to be. 

 

also, i cant afford virgin so their higher price isnt just grats. 

 

But i agree, they should make it where people cant remove them. And i dont want them to just add it into the fare, i want the non-tippers to see it and be mad. 😂

 

My room being cleaned is part of the fare that I pay and is cleaned by someone who has willfully signed a contract to do that job. I am getting nothing for "free"

 

 

[BennyandBo]

1 minute ago, Cru1s1ng2009 said:

Of course it is but so is this thread and every other tipping thread. Tipping is in our culture. Change the culture or accept it. 

But yes, when you take money out of someone's pocket in real life you get charged for it😅

Not tipping is not taking money out of someone's pocket. Legally speaking. And you were talking about criminal acts.

[Cru1s1ng2009]

Just now, UNCFanatik said:

 

My room being cleaned is part of the fare that I pay and is cleaned by someone who has willfully signed a contract to do that job. I am getting nothing for "free"

 

 

well it is not in the fare, otherwise it would be increased since the culture is to tip for it. I will say it again, i hope they dont allow it to be removed and those who hate tipping can still see it and be mad.