Villa Vie Residences

[chengkp75]

52 minutes ago, gkbiiii said:

This is "a direct, word for word quote," from the VV "Golden Horizons" contract.  I thought the wording was strange, but legalisms are not my strong point.  

And, the big question is, whether this contract was drawn up by an admiralty lawyer or not.  As this deals with ownership of a ship, and is a tort issue (damages or harmful acts), this rises above preferred mortgages of the ship in priority, and anyway, as I've said, a Marshall Island ship can have a lien placed against it for damages, and subsequently seized, by any jurisdiction where the ship is currently positioned.  So, the wording of the "contract" is highly suspect from a legal aspect to begin with.

 

Now, a "passage contract" can have a clause like the one you posted, limiting jurisdiction, but not a maritime lien.

[Travel_Around_The_World]

(j) It is agreed by and between Resident and VVR that all claims, disputes, and matters whatsoever arising under, arising out of, or relating to this voyage agreement shall be litigated in and before a court of competent jurisdiction located in Wilmington Delaware or Broward County, FL U.S.A. The Agreement provides for the exclusive resolution of disputes through individual legal action on the Resident’s own behalf instead of through any class action. Even if the applicable law provides otherwise, Resident agrees that any lawsuit against VVR whatsoever shall be litigated by Resident individually and not as a member of any class or as part of a class action, and Resident expressly agrees to waive any law entitling Resident to participate in a class action. 

 

 

Edited Saturday at 11:09 PM by Travel_Around_The_World

[gkbiiii]

Oddly, the "Golden Horizons" contract, is with the Marshal Islands.  This whole thing SCREAMS scam, all over it. 

Edited Saturday at 11:16 PM by gkbiiii

[Travel_Around_The_World]

7 minutes ago, gkbiiii said:

Oddly, the "Golden Horizons" contract, is with the Marshal Islands.  This whole thing SCREAMS scam, all over it. 

So, they changed that from public info to "secret" resident contract? Wow.

I really don't know why anybody would sign up with them. The burden in every aspect clearly lies with the residents and VVR can do whatever they want to.

This one I got a kick out of:

SHIP:  

VVR retains the right to make changes/retrofits/modifications to the Ship provided for its voyages at any time. Although VVR makes best efforts to ensure that all its Ships are seaworthy at all times, the company does not warrant (expressly or implied), and specifically disclaims any warranty as to the fitness, condition, or merchantability of VVR’s Ships. As part of VVR’s Performance and Indemnity Insurance requirements all Ships once acquired will carry their own policy which includes but not limited to: hull and machinery, open-ended risks, war risks; and risks of environmental damage such as oil spills and pollution. 

Just imagine buying a condo and you get a sales contract where the builder doesn't guarantee that the building is not going to collapse. 
"We made our best effort building the buiding but we cannot guarantee if anything holds up, or is straight."
🤣

 

[chengkp75]

From NCL's ticket contract (the only one I looked up):

 

"Norwegian and the guest hereby agree there is no warranty, whether express or implied, as to the fitness, seaworthiness, or condition of the vessel or any person on board, or any food, drink, medicine, or provisions supplied on board the vessel."

 

This is a pretty common contract clause.  I believe most, if not all, cruise lines use it.

[gkbiiii]

6 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

From NCL's ticket contract (the only one I looked up):

 

"Norwegian and the guest hereby agree there is no warranty, whether express or implied, as to the fitness, seaworthiness, or condition of the vessel or any person on board, or any food, drink, medicine, or provisions supplied on board the vessel."

 

This is a pretty common contract clause.  I believe most, if not all, cruise lines use it.

 

But, your not buying the cabin, in a real estate transaction!

[Travel_Around_The_World]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

From NCL's ticket contract (the only one I looked up):

 

"Norwegian and the guest hereby agree there is no warranty, whether express or implied, as to the fitness, seaworthiness, or condition of the vessel or any person on board, or any food, drink, medicine, or provisions supplied on board the vessel."

 

This is a pretty common contract clause.  I believe most, if not all, cruise lines use it.

Huge difference between a cruise for a week and a residential cruise. Just the money alone. Most cruise lines give money back if anything is wrong with the ship (didn't RCI just do that?). 

But once you start selling a life on a cruise ship, the expectations are just higher. You can just not copy what cruiseline put in their terms and conditions. 
But it shows you that VVR is owned and operated by complete idiots. Have to copy other cruise lines T&Cs and call it a day? Lousy.

 

 

Edited Sunday at 01:26 AM by Travel_Around_The_World

[broberts]

3 hours ago, gkbiiii said:

 

But, your not buying the cabin, in a real estate transaction!

 

And one is not in the VVR contract according to post #802.

 

"(j) It is agreed by and between Resident and VVR that all claims, disputes, and matters whatsoever arising under, arising out of, or relating to this voyage agreement shall be ..." 

 

[CoastguardKitKat]

Short stop in Lisbon, and a late morning arrival in Portimao, for another short stop.

 

The port website says destination Funchal, Madeira. But, the VVO website says Cadiz, Seville (up a river/creek). Let’s hope they take a paddle.

[chengkp75]

14 hours ago, gkbiiii said:

 

But, your not buying the cabin, in a real estate transaction!

So, when you buy a house, does the seller guarantee the house is safe or sound?  Does even a home inspector guarantee the house?  Nope.

[gkbiiii]

8 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

So, when you buy a house, does the seller guarantee the house is safe or sound?  Does even a home inspector guarantee the house?  Nope.

Yes when buying from the condo developer directly, you are guaranteed, all what you just stated and more!

[rebeccalouiseagain]

3 hours ago, CoastguardKitKat said:

Short stop in Lisbon, and a late morning arrival in Portimao, for another short stop.

 

The port website says destination Funchal, Madeira. But, the VVO website says Cadiz, Seville (up a river/creek). Let’s hope they take a paddle.

Yes- the port of Cadiz has Odyssey on the schedule for 10/23/24, not tomorrow

[rebeccalouiseagain]

3 hours ago, CoastguardKitKat said:

Short stop in Lisbon, and a late morning arrival in Portimao, for another short stop.

 

The port website says destination Funchal, Madeira. But, the VVO website says Cadiz, Seville (up a river/creek). Let’s hope they take a paddle.

VVR is there for tomorrow.  I just checked the port.  They are good

[Travel_Around_The_World]

4 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

So, when you buy a house, does the seller guarantee the house is safe or sound?  Does even a home inspector guarantee the house?  Nope.

Absolutely. 

But a house is a single unit anyways. Better comparison is a condo building. And yes, when you buy a condo it is usually guaranteed. It also includes possible maintenance to keep a condo building standing upright and no balconies falling off. The buyer also has the option of an individual check up on the building.  With the VVO you don't have that option (financially and time wise). You simply hope that VVR is keeping the thing afloat and if not, you are out of luck. 

Like i said earlier, we're now splitting hairs. 

 

I can't even blame Mike and VVR for it. If they can get away with it, that's what they do. The fault lies with those who bought into that crap. Just reading the publicly available T&C would turn me away. I have not even seen a 'responsibility' by VVR in those T&Cs. I can just imagine what the T&C looks like for those who actually signed up. 

 

I don't know what would make you sign up with them. As a resident you have no guarantees, no responsibility of VVR towards their clientele.  Nothing. Even if you have that dream of traveling the world, it is simply not enough nor explainable to throw your hard earned money (for many it is their retirement funds) at them.

Edited Sunday at 07:37 PM by Travel_Around_The_World

[chengkp75]

43 minutes ago, Travel_Around_The_World said:

And yes, when you buy a condo it is usually guaranteed.

This would be from the builder/developer at the first sale, but if a building is older, and a new developer comes in and buys the building, and sells condos, I don't believe that there is any warranty as to the building.  In Maine they just say that the seller guarantees that the building/unit is sufficient at the time of sale to be a residential unit.

 

46 minutes ago, Travel_Around_The_World said:

The buyer also has the option of an individual check up on the building.

And, based on the quality of the home inspection industry, I wouldn't trust 90% of inspections to be anywhere near correct.

[gkbiiii]

38 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

This would be from the builder/developer at the first sale, but if a building is older, and a new developer comes in and buys the building, and sells condos, I don't believe that there is any warranty as to the building.  In Maine they just say that the seller guarantees that the building/unit is sufficient at the time of sale to be a residential unit.

 

And, based on the quality of the home inspection industry, I wouldn't trust 90% of inspections to be anywhere near correct.

Right, everyone is buying direct from the builder/VV; it is their responsibility alone, to do a inspection of the ship, through their due diligence. 

[Lee Jones Jnr]

This is a silly and pointless argument.

I think most people outside the Odyssey guests think it’s madness to buy and we are all watching like season one of Big Brother.

[gkbiiii]

28 minutes ago, Lee Jones Jnr said:

This is a silly and pointless argument.

I think most people outside the Odyssey guests think it’s madness to buy and we are all watching like season one of Big Brother.

Yes, like some reality show, scientific experiment. 

[MacMadame]

VVR's contract should be compared to another residential ship as it's not a condo nor a week on a cruise. So does anyone know the T&C for a ship like The World?

[UKCruiseJeff]

9 hours ago, MacMadame said:

VVR's contract should be compared to another residential ship as it's not a condo nor a week on a cruise. So does anyone know the T&C for a ship like The World?

 

I am not up to date with latest terms but we did look at this option (The World) many years ago.  

 

It was our instinct that the terms were stringent and intended to protect potential customers as well as existing customers from inappropriate decisions from possibly inappropriate potential customers.  

 

For example a minimum level of liquid wealth and a permanent off-ship address ensured that people could receive health care and not become an inconvenience or concern to others. When we visited it was intended to preserve the privacy for existing residents. I think they were even cagey about photographs so bloggers would have found it impossible as well as inappropriate.

 

The World’s approach was sensible for both existing and potential customers and basically you were subject to a vigorous vetting process even before a visit date was agreed.

 

Jeff

[cwayne]

My husband and I looked at the Villa Vie promo at one point but never pursued it beyond that. I do however enjoy some of the guests YouTubes but am disappointed that there are very few of life onboard and their daily activities, in fact almost non existent. I keep seeing the same 4 people. 

Edited Monday at 01:32 PM by cwayne

[cwayne]

Stumbled across a May 2024 YouTube of Mikael Petterson on FOX Business about the Villa Vie. He was  asked directly about "HOA" fees or annual fees after the initial purchase price. He stated that there is a one time, lifetime upfront cost and that's it, nothing else. We understood that there were monthly fees based on the cabin size. 

Edited Monday at 02:07 PM by cwayne

[rebeccalouiseagain]

In May he introduced the "Endless Horizons" program, which was a one time upfront fee.  The other form of ownership is a buy in and then monthly fees.  So there are (or were) two programs.  You can also pay as you go- like a normal cruise ship experience in segments.

[rebeccalouiseagain]

1 hour ago, cwayne said:

My husband and I looked at the Villa Vie promo at one point but never pursued it beyond that. I do however enjoy some of the guests YouTubes but am disappointed that there are very few of life onboard and their daily activities, in fact almost non existent. I keep seeing the same 4 people. 

If I was on a cruise- I wouldn't want to be filmed.  They are probably careful not to annoy passengers with their constant filming.  However, there is little discussion about the ship itself- activities onboard, the cruise director, or a tour of the common areas- like the pool or the shops onboard.  Angela already said the spa prices were too high (for her), so there is no mention from Angela about spa treatments or hair styling.

[UKCruiseJeff]

The filming on board is one of many issues.

 

If people are even slightly considerate now, and I’ve seen many unblanked faces of co-cruisers on blogs - then nature being what it is people will take less care as time goes on.  And they do seem to be in te upper quartile of noisy. And this over time will become to some more and more irritating and might end in bad feeling.  

 

Also there are some on board who clearly see themselves as the kings and queens and the top of the pile.  The bee’s knees. They do not give the impression of being quiet people.  It seems to me that if their personality is let’s say gregarious and loud then some after a while might find themselves constantly making their way to an exit when they enter a bar.  But you can’t do it midway through breakfast, lunch or dinner.   Few people are offended by quietness and tranquility but it can only take a single couple or three to ruin the next 15 years. And if there are a few then they might compete and spread themselves around the ship. 

 

It seems to me that many might find themselves finding their experience not as they might have anticipated, but assuming the finances don’t implode then I could imagine how this might work for a singleton who at least could find some solitude and escape in their sole-occupancy cabins, but even extremely close  couples might find it a bit of a strain.

 

Jeff