Earliest Departure Time

[the penguins]

7 hours ago, 3dog said:

There is no way to know conclusively in advance if a ship (or airplane, for that matter) will or will not arrive/depart on time.  It is all about probability, and gets more clear the closer to the actual event.  And what I found (after a 'don't depart till after noon', then watching two planes leave before; getting delayed; and watching another depart before me - left me very stressed after a nice cruise), is that cruise ships have a better on-time performance than airlines.

The overwhelming majority of ships arrive at their home port on-time (no more than 15 minutes after the scheduled time - some much earlier).  Of the delayed ships, the overwhelming majority arrive within 1 hour of their scheduled time.  Of the remaining, most are many hours overdue, sometimes days.  And if that delay is weather, that weather will have more impact on flights than a cruise ship; potentially mucking up a whole lot of flight schedules (you could well miss that after noon flight as well).

What I do now, is figure on a probable arrival and time to airport, and check flight information, and make a choice that is appropriate for port/travel/airline/route/time-of-year constraints I've previously mentioned (lots of direct flights, really not a big risk to go for the earlier).  As publicpersona suggests, should it look like it will be later, I can trivially change it before I get to the airport.  For my next cruise, there is an earlier flight is at that edge.  But if I were to arrive at the airport early enough, I will see about getting on it instead; if not, I will still likely be home and relaxing while a number are still at the airport awaiting their flights (I did this on a cruise out of FLL with a return to the west coast, and texting with friends still at FLL when I got home).  As I'm ready with a number of options, I can adjust at the last minute without stress or excessive waits in airports.

So as publicpersona states: "what is your plan B", because that after noon flight can also be of issue (why I also previously said "Yes, you can, and probably will.  But what are your options should your departure be one of those rare events that messes with those plans?")

Sounds like you have a plan but only when you are flying  within the USA almost none of them would apply on International flights.

[3dog]

8 hours ago, the penguins said:

Sounds like you have a plan but only when you are flying  within the USA almost none of them would apply on International flights.

They apply on all travel, because it's based on 'it pays to be a savvy traveler'; instead of some arbitrary 'rule of thumb' that has no functional basis and/or backup plan.

 

There are lots of considerations, but one is 'don't preemptively insert delay, because it can still bite you.'  Knowing that there is a much larger chance of flight delays than cruise ship arrival delays, planning for the cruise ship delays and not the flight delays seems backwards to me. Sometimes delay is unavoidable and/or necessary.  If someone in your travel group has mobility issues, it is best to add extra time.  But if able bodied with all the travel tools, and can easily navigate airports, being a bit more aggressive with schedules would probably work out. Besides, do you really want to spend any more time sitting in an airport than necessary.

 

If you go back and read my posts, they are mostly describing scenarios to help determine what is reasonable for a particular case.  I can still self-debark, have TSA/GE (and usually business for international travel), so check-in and security tend to be quicker, and don't need assistance in the terminal or getting on the plane.  So it's reasonable to make an earlier flight.  If any of these are a a problem, then it becomes less reasonable, and different choices are likely necessary.

 

Whenever possible, take non-stop or no-plane-change flights.  Adding a connection increases the possibility of problems, including lost bags and delays.  If there are lots of non-stop flights to your destination, it allows for more options should a delay occur, but even if there are delays, they have little impact on your ability to arrive at your destination.  And when taking these flights, get as early as reasonable for your travel constraints, as it leaves more options should you get an unlucky delay.

 

If you must make a connection, try to make it at major hubs, as they will offer more options to continue in the event of a problem.  For long haul hubs (i.e. flying to a foreign country where there are few flights there from your departure point), try to find ones that have lots of non-stop flights to your final destination, as again there are more options should something happen.

 

Traveling internationally? Absolutely get Global Entry!  Even if international travel is rare, it makes re-entry into the US, and some entry into foreign airports so much easier and quicker, so tighter connections are more reasonable, and definitely worth the cost.

 

Be aware of your travel time/season, and the airports that you might have to go through.  Extra points for understanding where your plane is coming from.  Just because there are no weather delays at your airport, doesn't mean that the inbound plane hasn't been delayed by weather. 

 

Time of year has it's share of headaches that are related to that last point.  Winter in the northern climates can significantly impact airports and the planes scheduled to fly through them.  Winter travel has a much higher risk for delays AND cancellations, than any cruise ship.  That 'fly in a day early' might give you peace of mind, but if there were a large scale weather event, there is a very good chance of not making the port in time.  Other than enjoying the departure port, the only decent benefit of early arrival is that there is a higher probability that your bags will go with you (account for both is even more important for international travel).

 

So while I find it very much ok to say 'I wouldn't do it'; this advice is meaningless without the effective YMMV claim: 'if you are able bodied, and the conditions fit, it is possible to do earlier' (as many of us have been successfully doing for quite a while; I was on a 11a flight out of Fiumicino last year with plenty of lounge time in the airport - but I did have a complete backup itinerary just in case).

[the penguins]

1 hour ago, 3dog said:

They apply on all travel, because it's based on 'it pays to be a savvy traveler'; instead of some arbitrary 'rule of thumb' that has no functional basis and/or backup plan.

 

There are lots of considerations, but one is 'don't preemptively insert delay, because it can still bite you.'  Knowing that there is a much larger chance of flight delays than cruise ship arrival delays, planning for the cruise ship delays and not the flight delays seems backwards to me. Sometimes delay is unavoidable and/or necessary.  If someone in your travel group has mobility issues, it is best to add extra time.  But if able bodied with all the travel tools, and can easily navigate airports, being a bit more aggressive with schedules would probably work out. Besides, do you really want to spend any more time sitting in an airport than necessary.

 

If you go back and read my posts, they are mostly describing scenarios to help determine what is reasonable for a particular case.  I can still self-debark, have TSA/GE (and usually business for international travel), so check-in and security tend to be quicker, and don't need assistance in the terminal or getting on the plane.  So it's reasonable to make an earlier flight.  If any of these are a a problem, then it becomes less reasonable, and different choices are likely necessary.

 

Whenever possible, take non-stop or no-plane-change flights.  Adding a connection increases the possibility of problems, including lost bags and delays.  If there are lots of non-stop flights to your destination, it allows for more options should a delay occur, but even if there are delays, they have little impact on your ability to arrive at your destination.  And when taking these flights, get as early as reasonable for your travel constraints, as it leaves more options should you get an unlucky delay.

 

If you must make a connection, try to make it at major hubs, as they will offer more options to continue in the event of a problem.  For long haul hubs (i.e. flying to a foreign country where there are few flights there from your departure point), try to find ones that have lots of non-stop flights to your final destination, as again there are more options should something happen.

 

Traveling internationally? Absolutely get Global Entry!  Even if international travel is rare, it makes re-entry into the US, and some entry into foreign airports so much easier and quicker, so tighter connections are more reasonable, and definitely worth the cost.

 

Be aware of your travel time/season, and the airports that you might have to go through.  Extra points for understanding where your plane is coming from.  Just because there are no weather delays at your airport, doesn't mean that the inbound plane hasn't been delayed by weather. 

 

Time of year has it's share of headaches that are related to that last point.  Winter in the northern climates can significantly impact airports and the planes scheduled to fly through them.  Winter travel has a much higher risk for delays AND cancellations, than any cruise ship.  That 'fly in a day early' might give you peace of mind, but if there were a large scale weather event, there is a very good chance of not making the port in time.  Other than enjoying the departure port, the only decent benefit of early arrival is that there is a higher probability that your bags will go with you (account for both is even more important for international travel).

 

So while I find it very much ok to say 'I wouldn't do it'; this advice is meaningless without the effective YMMV claim: 'if you are able bodied, and the conditions fit, it is possible to do earlier' (as many of us have been successfully doing for quite a while; I was on a 11a flight out of Fiumicino last year with plenty of lounge time in the airport - but I did have a complete backup itinerary just in case).

Due to mobility and pain issues we do need Assistance and Self disembarkation is a complete non starter.

Even when we were able bodied:

Global Entry has no validity outside of the US and so does nothing to help with delays at Passport Control or Security when boarding flights at overseas airports.

Minimum check in times for International Flights from the UK and many other European destinations is generally 3 hours.

Clearly the later your flight the less risk you have of missing it - yes the risk may not be high but it is still a risk.

In whatever class you choose to fly on long haul unless you can afford to pay the full fare it is very difficult/expensive to change the flights at the last moment which makes having a Plan B difficult. We fly Business Class because we need the flat beds but reduce the cost either by using our Avios/Air Miles to upgrade from Premium to Business or by buying the flights as part of a package. This saving comes at the cost of less flexibility to cancel/amend the flights.

If you look at my original post I made it clear that it worries me when passengers want to get the earliest flight. Choose what suits you best and above all enjoy your travelling.

 

 

 

 

[3dog]

1 hour ago, the penguins said:

Due to mobility and pain issues we do need Assistance and Self disembarkation is a complete non starter.

Even when we were able bodied:

Global Entry has no validity outside of the US and so does nothing to help with delays at Passport Control or Security when boarding flights at overseas airports.

Minimum check in times for International Flights from the UK and many other European destinations is generally 3 hours.

Clearly the later your flight the less risk you have of missing it - yes the risk may not be high but it is still a risk.

In whatever class you choose to fly on long haul unless you can afford to pay the full fare it is very difficult/expensive to change the flights at the last moment which makes having a Plan B difficult. We fly Business Class because we need the flat beds but reduce the cost either by using our Avios/Air Miles to upgrade from Premium to Business or by buying the flights as part of a package. This saving comes at the cost of less flexibility to cancel/amend the flights.

If you look at my original post I made it clear that it worries me when passengers want to get the earliest flight. Choose what suits you best and above all enjoy your travelling.

 

 

 

 

These are all good points and should be part of your travel toolbox.  If not already, I would also up your technology toolkit; especially airline apps, as you will be able to see and, if necessary, change your plans should any of this 'things that happen' get in the way.  And, as previously has been mentioned, sometimes a 'plan B' is hard to make; but try to make one anyway, even if it mostly includes "where are the nearest hotels to the airport" (almost had to do that once).  If you never have to use it, great; but it will be very handy should you need it (as I've mentioned on an upcoming trip: there is an earlier flight that might be hard to make, but my planning has this noted, and if I get to the airport early enough, I will see about getting on it).

 

A note about travel programs, specifically TSApreCheck and Global Entry.  The TSA is sharing much of its traveler data with "friendly" countries, and you are seeing more kiosks for USA travelers; including one that had a line for special program travelers that included GE.  Don't be surprised if you see this more (a recent trip to Tokyo had a facial recognition camera for boarding, and if you did the pre-entry work, go to a line with another that has a camera and you are out - fastest plane to curb I've ever done in Tokyo).

 

Also FWIW, 1-1/2 hours is the minimum check in; 3 hours is the recommended.  While I don't suggest anyone try for that 1-1/2 hours, it can be done if it is necessary, you have a priority ticket and a lot of the other things I've suggested for a quick trip through the airport.  For Business/First travelers, I suggest at least 2 hours; everyone else will probably be fine with 2-1/2 to 3.  But that comes with a caveat to 'know the airport, where to go at the airport, can handle the likely hurried pace. and when are the "busy" times', so you aren't caught off guard (and, yes, if someone in your party has mobility issues, you should tack on a bit more time to this plan).

[NutsAboutGolf]

If you're a US citizen, Global Entry works in two international locations, New Zealand, and Canada if flying to the US.  If flying from Canada to the US, you go through US passport control in the Canadian airport and there are Global Entry lanes

3 hours ago, the penguins said:

Due to mobility and pain issues we do need Assistance and Self disembarkation is a complete non starter.

Even when we were able bodied:

Global Entry has no validity outside of the US and so does nothing to help with delays at Passport Control or Security when boarding flights at overseas airports.

Minimum check in times for International Flights from the UK and many other European destinations is generally 3 hours.

Clearly the later your flight the less risk you have of missing it - yes the risk may not be high but it is still a risk.

In whatever class you choose to fly on long haul unless you can afford to pay the full fare it is very difficult/expensive to change the flights at the last moment which makes having a Plan B difficult. We fly Business Class because we need the flat beds but reduce the cost either by using our Avios/Air Miles to upgrade from Premium to Business or by buying the flights as part of a package. This saving comes at the cost of less flexibility to cancel/amend the flights.

If you look at my original post I made it clear that it worries me when passengers want to get the earliest flight. Choose what suits you best and above all enjoy your travelling.

 

 

 

 

 

GE is available for US citizens in about 20 international airports, although two are in the US territories of Guam and the Marina, and 8 are in Canada.  Most of the 20 GE international airports require you to be on a flight heading to the US then you go through US passport control in the international airport.  "Departing GE" works in Canada, Ireland, the Grand Bahamas, and Bermuda, I'm probably missing a couple

 

International "Arrival GE" works in Aruba and New Zealand, and again, I'm probably missing some

 

While international GE only works in a very short list of countries, anywhere that has GE kiosks can save travelers time

 

As stated, there are some countries that allow GE travelers to apply for their own expedited passport control but usually they still require an interview and possibly to pay a fee so it would only makes sense if you plan on traveling there more than once

 

[the penguins]

4 hours ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

If you're a US citizen, Global Entry works in two international locations, New Zealand, and Canada if flying to the US.  If flying from Canada to the US, you go through US passport control in the Canadian airport and there are Global Entry lanes

 

GE is available for US citizens in about 20 international airports, although two are in the US territories of Guam and the Marina, and 8 are in Canada.  Most of the 20 GE international airports require you to be on a flight heading to the US then you go through US passport control in the international airport.  "Departing GE" works in Canada, Ireland, the Grand Bahamas, and Bermuda, I'm probably missing a couple

 

International "Arrival GE" works in Aruba and New Zealand, and again, I'm probably missing some

 

While international GE only works in a very short list of countries, anywhere that has GE kiosks can save travelers time

 

As stated, there are some countries that allow GE travelers to apply for their own expedited passport control but usually they still require an interview and possibly to pay a fee so it would only makes sense if you plan on traveling there more than once

 

Ireland only works because there are US Officers at the airports the same applies to flights from Iceland. All checks are done pre boarding so when you arrive in the US you are treated as a Domestic Passenger. The downside, unless your journey originates in either airport US that it adds an additional flight to your journey and one more place for your baggage to go astray.

[NutsAboutGolf]

7 hours ago, the penguins said:

Ireland only works because there are US Officers at the airports the same applies to flights from Iceland. All checks are done pre boarding so when you arrive in the US you are treated as a Domestic Passenger. The downside, unless your journey originates in either airport US that it adds an additional flight to your journey and one more place for your baggage to go astray.

 

Yes, as stated, Ireland, Canada, Bahamas, Bermuda, etc, all have "departing GE" or US passport control is performed at the international airport.  Are you sure departing GE is available Iceland?

[the penguins]

24 minutes ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

 

Yes, as stated, Ireland, Canada, Bahamas, Bermuda, etc, all have "departing GE" or US passport control is performed at the international airport.  Are you sure departing GE is available Iceland?

Must say I am confused now. Keflavik Airport shows it offers “TSA Precheck” when flying Iceandair is that the same thing? 

[NutsAboutGolf]

13 minutes ago, the penguins said:

Must say I am confused now. Keflavik Airport shows it offers “TSA Precheck” when flying Iceandair is that the same thing? 

 

When you purchase Global Entry (GE), they include TSA Precheck but they're two different things

 

GE = Expedited passport control

 

TSA Precheck = Pre-boarding TSA security/x-ray/body scanner

 

After our X Greenland/Iceland sailing last August, we flew from Iceland to Boston on WOW airlines, at the Iceland airport, didn't experience either GE (did passport control in Boston) or Pre-check

[the penguins]

34 minutes ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

 

When you purchase Global Entry (GE), they include TSA Precheck but they're two different things

 

GE = Expedited passport control

 

TSA Precheck = Pre-boarding TSA security/x-ray/body scanner

 

After our X Greenland/Iceland sailing last August, we flew from Iceland to Boston on WOW airlines, at the Iceland airport, didn't experience either GE (did passport control in Boston) or Pre-check

The TSA precheck is only when flying Icelandair.

[NutsAboutGolf]

20 minutes ago, the penguins said:

The TSA precheck is only when flying Icelandair.

 

Most airlines including Icelandair, utilize TSA precheck at the departing US airport.  The few airlines that don't participate are usually international budget airlines.  This includes the Iceland flight we took on WOW Airlines, which does not participate with TSA precheck.  However, since we were flying from the Iceland International Airport to the US (Boston), it wouldn't matter as TSA Precheck (going through airport security/x-ray/body scanner) is performed in the US airport, not the international airport

Edited Thursday at 03:54 PM by NutsAboutGolf

[the penguins]

3 hours ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

 

Most airlines including Icelandair, utilize TSA precheck at the departing US airport.  The few airlines that don't participate are usually international budget airlines.  This includes the Iceland flight we took on WOW Airlines, which does not participate with TSA precheck.  However, since we were flying from the Iceland International Airport to the US (Boston), it wouldn't matter as TSA Precheck (going through airport security/x-ray/body scanner) is performed in the US airport, not the international airport

i thought the whole point of the Icelandair deal was that the checks were done in Iceland just like the deal from some airports in Ireland.

We have never been subject xray/body scanning or security when arriving in the US. Only checks are Passports including photos and finger prints. As we have Assistance we go to the head of the lines so it's really quick.

Last year in Fort Lauderdale flying domestically on AA  my wife (aged 75 and in a wheelchair) was subjected to an "enhanced security check". The check included being searched under her clothing and her bra all done without being moved to a private room or even being protected by screens.  She was also asked to bend forward for a prolonged period and despite her explaining that this would cause her severe pain the female Officer insisted that it was necessary. The experience left her distraught and in tears.

[NutsAboutGolf]

14 minutes ago, the penguins said:

i thought the whole point of the Icelandair deal was that the checks were done in Iceland just like the deal from some airports in Ireland.

We have never been subject xray/body scanning or security when arriving in the US. Only checks are Passports including photos and finger prints. As we have Assistance we go to the head of the lines so it's really quick.

Last year in Fort Lauderdale flying domestically on AA  my wife (aged 75 and in a wheelchair) was subjected to an "enhanced security check". The check included being searched under her clothing and her bra all done without being moved to a private room or even being protected by screens.  She was also asked to bend forward for a prolonged period and despite her explaining that this would cause her severe pain the female Officer insisted that it was necessary. The experience left her distraught and in tears.

 

TSA PreCheck = Security/X-Ray/Body scanner and has nothing to do with passport control

 

Global Entry = Passport Control and has nothing to do with pre-broad security

 

I believe what you're claiming is if you book Icelandair, when at the Iceland Airport, you can go through US passport control so when you land in the US, you land in the domestic terminal and not need to go through pasport control like the Global Entry departure at Ireland and Canada.  Do you have a link/source?  All I can find with Icelandair is they participate TSA PreCheck (which again is NOT passport control) when you fly from the US, you do security TSA PreCheck at the US airport, I cannot find anything stating TSA PreCheck, or even Global entry, is at Iceland airport

 

You misunderstood me, my bad; there isn't arrival security

 

 

[the penguins]

1 hour ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

 

TSA PreCheck = Security/X-Ray/Body scanner and has nothing to do with passport control

 

Global Entry = Passport Control and has nothing to do with pre-broad security

 

I believe what you're claiming is if you book Icelandair, when at the Iceland Airport, you can go through US passport control so when you land in the US, you land in the domestic terminal and not need to go through pasport control like the Global Entry departure at Ireland and Canada.  Do you have a link/source?  All I can find with Icelandair is they participate TSA PreCheck (which again is NOT passport control) when you fly from the US, you do security TSA PreCheck at the US airport, I cannot find anything stating TSA PreCheck, or even Global entry, is at Iceland airport

 

You misunderstood me, my bad; there isn't arrival security

 

 

as I said I thought the same thing applied from Ireland and Iceland i.e. on arrival in the US you were treated as being on a domestic flight. It would appear that I was wrong and it only applies from 2 airports in Ireland. Hope that clarifies things. Sorry for any confusion

[NutsAboutGolf]

20 minutes ago, the penguins said:

as I said I thought the same thing applied from Ireland and Iceland i.e. on arrival in the US you were treated as being on a domestic flight. It would appear that I was wrong and it only applies from 2 airports in Ireland. Hope that clarifies things. Sorry for any confusion

 

No worries.  I think what confuses many is when you buy Global Entry, you also receive TSA Precheck Security

[miched]

On 6/28/2024 at 4:53 PM, Liao said:

I live in Boston so Logan is my home airport.  Do NOT book a flight before 12:00.  You’re welcome.

You claim to live in Boston but in your profile it shows CA?   
 

Happy cruising 🌊🚢🇺🇸🌅