Is Princess having a Brand/Identity crisis - your thoughts?

[Globaler]

10 minutes ago, Cruise Raider said:

 

Spot on!  We only cruise on the older ships because

1) friends prefer them and invite us into their group (and many of our cruising friends do like the wrap around promenade) 

2) they sail out of our home port of SF 

3) the crew members that we’ve come to know 

 

Otherwise, I’d choose the Royal Class any day.  I love everything about these ships.  The smaller balcony really doesn’t bother me, I love the deluxe balconies (they are just the right size) but even the regular balcony cabins don’t bother me, neither does the fact they don’t have a wrap around promenade deck.  
I love a ship that has Alfredo’s or GiGi’s and a GastroPub or O’Malleys.  If it also has ocean terrace, even better.  Also, Vines is a great venue but there are certainly other bars where we’ve found a decent glass of wine.  
The only Princess ship we’d not consider cruising on again is the Diamond Princess.  
 

I like those features also - but it appears when those ships wear out they won’t be replaced with the same. Oh well, we’ll deal with that when it happens and see what’s out there. Just like everything that changes, you either adapt or don’t go!

[cruising.mark.uk]

49 minutes ago, Retired-N-Happy said:

Since when are P&O, Costa and Aida adult focused cruise lines?  Thought that Aida was German, P&O was British and Costa was value oriented?

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here - don't German, British and Italian cruisers count as adults?

 

I'm pretty sure that in terms of ship deployments across CCL as a whole, there's a pretty even split between North America and Europe.  It seems to me that cruise lines generally need to evolve in a way that suits passengers across their customer base, not just those from North America.  And, I'd hazard a guess that there is greater potential for growing the number of passengers from Europe over the next few years than there is from North America, given that the population of Europe is 50%+ bigger than that of North America and the cruise market is probably less developed in Europe.

[BlerkOne]

1 hour ago, Globaler said:

Interesting article online today, talking about cruise line customer feedback. It highlighted Carnival Brand Ambassador John Heald and the in cabin motion sensor lights. Carnival sought out feedback and received a lot of comments. Interesting how the Carnival Corp fleet handles issues differently. You would think there would be more consistency within the corporation. 

I think there is more in common than different.  You should read John's page sometime. 

 

 

[BlerkOne]

27 minutes ago, Globaler said:

I like those features also - but it appears when those ships wear out they won’t be replaced with the same. Oh well, we’ll deal with that when it happens and see what’s out there. Just like everything that changes, you either adapt or don’t go!

Cruise ships could sail for many decades, but almost certainly won't be replaced with the same. It wouldn't be cost effective.

[Globaler]

13 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

I think there is more in common than different.  You should read John's page sometime. 

 

 

I have read his work and there are many inconsistencies and I’m pretty sure it’s caused by moving officers around to different ships (I have had an officer mention this to me). We all tend to have bias as to what we like and don’t like.

Edited July 17 by Globaler

[vjmatty]

2 hours ago, TRLD said:

Cunard is UK focused. HAL and Princess are NA focused So only 2 NA focused adult lines.

This is incorrect. Their onboard currency is USD, they sail to Alaska, Panama Canal, Caribbean in addition to their  Europe based itineraries, and their passenger base is both UK and US as well Canadian. They also do regular crossings between NY and Southampton. I know it has an image of being UK based, and historically that may have been true, but their ships are now registered in Bermuda like most US based cruise lines rather than Liverpool, and they definitely cater to a NA market as much as if not more than UK. Having sailed at least 7 Cunard itineraries they are definitely not UK based.  Equating the base and market with P&O is inaccurate at best. 

[tinks29]

I actually put in my survey from our recent Princess cruise that I thought they were good for everyone but great for no one. I think they are trying to be the brand that works for multigenerational cruises, which is what we did. Overall, it works for that but because they are not focused there are things each generation doesn't like. For the kids, they missed having the waterslides, go karts, theme park on the deck and the shows were geared for an older crowd. The seniors in our group were not fans of the app, the medallion to get in the room and the food they said wasn't what they remembered on Princess or at the level of some other cruise lines. 

 

Overall, everyone enjoyed the cruise but I don't think any of us would choose Princess again, unless it was a multigenerational cruise since there are other more focused lines for each generation.  

[Cruise Raider]

1 hour ago, Globaler said:

I like those features also - but it appears when those ships wear out they won’t be replaced with the same. Oh well, we’ll deal with that when it happens and see what’s out there. Just like everything that changes, you either adapt or don’t go!

Indeed, they won’t be.  They will work for us for now and sadly, because we really don’t fly on long flights much anymore, we take what they give us here on the west coast.  I’d love to cruise on the Sun but would be more than happy for Princess to give us a Royal class ship here again.  
I heard someone asking a question on the presidents cruise on Celebrity if they ever consider putting a ship out of San Francisco.  She said they were working on it but that remains to be seen.  I would like a little variety, even though Princess just gives us such great experiences.  I can’t quite pull the lever on going back on Carnival, even though we’ve enjoyed them a lot in the past.  
 

[Globaler]

33 minutes ago, Cruise Raider said:

Indeed, they won’t be.  They will work for us for now and sadly, because we really don’t fly on long flights much anymore, we take what they give us here on the west coast.  I’d love to cruise on the Sun but would be more than happy for Princess to give us a Royal class ship here again.  
I heard someone asking a question on the presidents cruise on Celebrity if they ever consider putting a ship out of San Francisco.  She said they were working on it but that remains to be seen.  I would like a little variety, even though Princess just gives us such great experiences.  I can’t quite pull the lever on going back on Carnival, even though we’ve enjoyed them a lot in the past.  
 

Agree, we sail to Europe on TA’s instead of flying the long flights and I agree with Carnival although we enjoyed it when the kids were sailing with us. We didn’t do the 3 or 5 day cruises (typically has a different crowd) but the longer cruises on the newer ships were great and we all have family memories that we cherish. 

[TRLD]

1 hour ago, vjmatty said:

This is incorrect. Their onboard currency is USD, they sail to Alaska, Panama Canal, Caribbean in addition to their  Europe based itineraries, and their passenger base is both UK and US as well Canadian. They also do regular crossings between NY and Southampton. I know it has an image of being UK based, and historically that may have been true, but their ships are now registered in Bermuda like most US based cruise lines rather than Liverpool, and they definitely cater to a NA market as much as if not more than UK. Having sailed at least 7 Cunard itineraries they are definitely not UK based.  Equating the base and market with P&O is inaccurate at best. 

While they sail to many places and have guests from many countries they are primarily UK focused.  Their ship board culture, dining structure etc  is UK focused.  Their marketing spend is primarily UK focused.

On any given cruise there will be more UK that US guests on board.

 

Just because they sail to some places in NA and have some NA guests does not make them a NA focused line.

 

Read the CCL 10k. Cunard is listed in the EU cruise segment. Pretty clear where CCL considers Cunard to be focused.

[BlerkOne]

3 hours ago, Globaler said:

I have read his work and there are many inconsistencies and I’m pretty sure it’s caused by moving officers around to different ships (I have had an officer mention this to me). We all tend to have bias as to what we like and don’t like.

That makes no sense to me, but if you believe it....

[cruising.mark.uk]

50 minutes ago, TRLD said:

While they sail to many places and have guests from many countries they are primarily UK focused.  Their ship board culture, dining structure etc  is UK focused.  Their marketing spend is primarily UK focused.

On any given cruise there will be more UK that US guests on board.

 

Just because they sail to some places in NA and have some NA guests does not make them a NA focused line.

 

Read the CCL 10k. Cunard is listed in the EU cruise segment. Pretty clear where CCL considers Cunard to be focused.

I always smile at the cheerleaders on the Cunard board who assert that Cunard provides a quintessential British experience and appear to completely miss the irony associated with paying for that in US$.  So far as I can tell from my 5 cruises on Cunard, the ship board culture etc is primarily focused on playing up to the fantasies of those who believe that Downton Abbey is a documentary programme showing how the middle classes live in contemporary Britain.  In reality, the ships are about as British as Disney World.   But, good luck to Cunard because this marketing strategy clearly works to a certain extent because they are persuading passengers to pay about 50% more than on their other mainstream lines for pretty much the same experience, but with more restrictive dress regs and no reasonably priced drinks, wifi and service charge packages a la Princess.  

[Retired-N-Happy]

3 hours ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here - don't German, British and Italian cruisers count as adults?

 

I'm pretty sure that in terms of ship deployments across CCL as a whole, there's a pretty even split between North America and Europe.  It seems to me that cruise lines generally need to evolve in a way that suits passengers across their customer base, not just those from North America.  And, I'd hazard a guess that there is greater potential for growing the number of passengers from Europe over the next few years than there is from North America, given that the population of Europe is 50%+ bigger than that of North America and the cruise market is probably less developed in Europe.

The three cruise lines you mentioned are not adult oriented, they also deal with families.  Cunard and HAL are more adult oriented than the three lines you mentioned 

[cruising.mark.uk]

3 minutes ago, Retired-N-Happy said:

The three cruise lines you mentioned are not adult oriented, they also deal with families.  Cunard and HAL are more adult oriented than the three lines you mentioned 

Really?  More adult oriented than P&O which has 2 adult only ships in its fleet of 7?

[Retired-N-Happy]

32 minutes ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

Really?  More adult oriented than P&O which has 2 adult only ships in its fleet of 7?

Even with 2 adult only ships that I wasn't aware of since I've never cruised on that line, you can't be saying that HAL and Cunard in general cater more to families than Costa, AIDA and P&O.  

[JG&Lcruisingnewbies]

18 minutes ago, Retired-N-Happy said:

The three cruise lines you mentioned are not adult oriented, they also deal with families.  Cunard and HAL are more adult oriented than the three lines you mentioned 

Brit here. Fun fact. The older Princess cruisers and the older P&O cruiser have exactly the same opinion as each other when it comes to both cruise lines departing from their traditional ships. The P&O boards in Cruise critic went NUTS over P&O, traditionally an older market, making ships like Arvia and Iona to appeal to families.

 

i chuckled at the responses to Arvia. Shock Horror it’s got a rope course And a dome where they hold shows

 

psst Princess… I know you have delayed the Star Princess. The Escape room and the cinema on Arvia are massively popular. Just a suggestion…. 🤞 😂 

 

After P&O passengers had a collective meltdown over rope courses and 5000 passengers, I Sailed on the Sky Princess, joined in here, on Cruise critics Princess board. And chuckled at exactly the same complaints about the Sun Princess

 

younger people are cruising now. And so ships evolve. I’ve sailed on Ventura which is basically the Caribbean Princess. And I’ve sailed Iona and Arvia which are more like the Sun Princess 

 

And I loved both. My expectations of the ships changed depending on which one and how old.

 

but the older ships are still around. You can still sail those only. Princess or P&O. 

as a 43yr old with an 11yr old daughter who doesn’t need the rope course but is happy to have it, I’m grateful for the choice

 

We sail on Enchanted Princess soon. We hope to Sail on the Sun Princess next year

 

it feels like P&O and Princess have finally realised that there is a big market out there waiting for them if they both do something more modern and for a younger crowd. But both do realise that their older ship are still in high demand. I don’t think it’s an identity crisis. I think it’s just about appealing to different ‘identities’ while moving forward. As another said. The only constant is change.

 

without change, the cruise lines, P&O and Princess will not survive imo

 

 

[vjmatty]

1 hour ago, TRLD said:

While they sail to many places and have guests from many countries they are primarily UK focused.  Their ship board culture, dining structure etc  is UK focused.  Their marketing spend is primarily UK focused.

On any given cruise there will be more UK that US guests on board.

 

Just because they sail to some places in NA and have some NA guests does not make them a NA focused line.

 

Read the CCL 10k. Cunard is listed in the EU cruise segment. Pretty clear where CCL considers Cunard to be focused.

It’s not that they just sail to NA ports. They are based in and sail from multiple US ports year round, unlike Costa and P&O.  There are more NA passengers than UK and the experience has become more Americanized since the days of the old British steam ships. Just because they serve afternoon tea and started out 200 years ago as a British company doesn’t mean they aren’t NA based. You could say they have equal presence in both NA and Europe, but they are no longer UK based like P&O. It is understandable, however, why those who don’t sail Cunard would assume otherwise, given the history. 

[vjmatty]

1 hour ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

I always smile at the cheerleaders on the Cunard board who assert that Cunard provides a quintessential British experience and appear to completely miss the irony associated with paying for that in US$.  So far as I can tell from my 5 cruises on Cunard, the ship board culture etc is primarily focused on playing up to the fantasies of those who believe that Downton Abbey is a documentary programme showing how the middle classes live in contemporary Britain.  In reality, the ships are about as British as Disney World.   But, good luck to Cunard because this marketing strategy clearly works to a certain extent because they are persuading passengers to pay about 50% more than on their other mainstream lines for pretty much the same experience, but with more restrictive dress regs and no reasonably priced drinks, wifi and service charge packages a la Princess.  

And this is the other element I had in mind, but only made a passing reference to in my last response to TLDR. 

[Incognito1]

On 7/15/2024 at 10:42 AM, voljeep said:

tell us about that 'raunchy' please

The comedians who think "adult" show means they can cover their lack of talent by dropping as many F and C bombs as possible.  Some of the comedians in the main theater, too.

The Love & Marriage Show - initially it was more like the Newlywed Show of old, but the past few were disgusting.  We don't go any more.

Bartender at the best bar putting on a show that included many sexual themes ("growing" a stack of cups from his groin was just one).  

Inappropriate lyrics in the pool music, especially where children are.

 

Love Princess and we're not abandoning them, but it does feel like they are catering to the lowest common denominator of passengers.  Maybe they are trying to grab some of the passengers who don't feel comfortable on Carnival any more (???)

[Retired-N-Happy]

6 minutes ago, JG&Lcruisingnewbies said:

Brit here. Fun fact. The older Princess cruisers and the older P&O cruiser have exactly the same opinion as each other when it comes to both cruise lines departing from their traditional ships. The P&O boards in Cruise critic went NUTS over P&O, traditionally an older market, making ships like Arvia and Iona to appeal to families.

 

i chuckled at the responses to Arvia. Shock Horror it’s got a rope course And a dome where they hold shows

 

psst Princess… I know you have delayed the Star Princess. The Escape room and the cinema on Arvia are massively popular. Just a suggestion…. 🤞 😂 

 

After P&O passengers had a collective meltdown over rope courses and 5000 passengers, I Sailed on the Sky Princess, joined in here, on Cruise critics Princess board. And chuckled at exactly the same complaints about the Sun Princess

 

younger people are cruising now. And so ships evolve. I’ve sailed on Ventura which is basically the Caribbean Princess. And I’ve sailed Iona and Arvia which are more like the Sun Princess 

 

And I loved both. My expectations of the ships changed depending on which one and how old.

 

but the older ships are still around. You can still sail those only. Princess or P&O. 

as a 43yr old with an 11yr old daughter who doesn’t need the rope course but is happy to have it, I’m grateful for the choice

 

We sail on Enchanted Princess soon. We hope to Sail on the Sun Princess next year

 

it feels like P&O and Princess have finally realised that there is a big market out there waiting for them if they both do something more modern and for a younger crowd. But both do realise that their older ship are still in high demand. I don’t think it’s an identity crisis. I think it’s just about appealing to different ‘identities’ while moving forward. As another said. The only constant is change.

 

without change, the cruise lines, P&O and Princess will not survive imo

Fully agree with you that cruise lines can't remain stagnant.  Change needs to occur in order to grow and diversify their passenger mix.  This change sort of pisses off the old guard but the lines need to do it in order to make money.  They can't be stuck on a treadmill going no where.

We've cruised on the Carnival Mardi Gras and Celebration multiple times.  They are based on the same platform as the Arvia, Iona, Sun Princess and Star Princess.  But the Excel Class ships hold 2000 more passengers than the two Sphere Class ships.  Big difference 6300 vs 4300.

If we ever cross the pond for a European cruise, the Iona and Arvia could be on our radar since we consider the ship we cruise on to be very important, but of course the ports would be important cruising in Europe for the first time.

[Globaler]

4 minutes ago, Incognito1 said:

The comedians who think "adult" show means they can cover their lack of talent by dropping as many F and C bombs as possible.  Some of the comedians in the main theater, too.

The Love & Marriage Show - initially it was more like the Newlywed Show of old, but the past few were disgusting.  We don't go any more.

Bartender at the best bar putting on a show that included many sexual themes ("growing" a stack of cups from his groin was just one).  

Inappropriate lyrics in the pool music, especially where children are.

 

Love Princess and we're not abandoning them, but it does feel like they are catering to the lowest common denominator of passengers.  Maybe they are trying to grab some of the passengers who don't feel comfortable on Carnival any more (???)

I couldn’t agree with you more. As I said - not the Princess I prefer, will it cause me not to sail Princess no but it may cause me to cruise Princess less. 

[BlerkOne]

It's relative. Did Princess change or did some passengers mature (cough) out of the Princess market?

[Globaler]

1 minute ago, BlerkOne said:

It's relative. Did Princess change or did some passengers mature (cough) out of the Princess market?

Did you mean did some customers mature INTO the Princess market?

[Incognito1]

On 7/16/2024 at 2:07 AM, SCX22 said:

 

 I think Baby Boomers are brand loyal because they didn't have all the media growing up and don't really know how to use media at their age.  

 

I'm a Millennial

Yes, we can tell from your posts, even if you didn't spell it out.

[TRLD]

31 minutes ago, vjmatty said:

It’s not that they just sail to NA ports. They are based in and sail from multiple US ports year round, unlike Costa and P&O.  There are more NA passengers than UK and the experience has become more Americanized since the days of the old British steam ships. Just because they serve afternoon tea and started out 200 years ago as a British company doesn’t mean they aren’t NA based. You could say they have equal presence in both NA and Europe, but they are no longer UK based like P&O. It is understandable, however, why those who don’t sail Cunard would assume otherwise, given the history. 

So do other lines. Does not change where CCL positions and considers them. Read their 10k.

 

Just as the NA focused line have ships in Europe and Asia, those lines are still NA focused.

 

In either case they accept passengers from any area, but their targeted markets is clear.

 

Also does not change how and where they market.  The majority of their marketing focus and spend is UK.

Edited July 17 by TRLD