Is Princess having a Brand/Identity crisis - your thoughts?

[vjmatty]

1 minute ago, TRLD said:

SEC filings such as the 10k and 10Q tend to be a bit different since incorrect statements in those filings have legal ramifications.

 

 

Well if their goal truly is as you say a higher EU/UK market than US, judging by the population onboard, they’re not doing so well with that.   But that could be based on what cruising.mark.uk is talking about….the brand has changed dramatically since CCL took over. Switching to USD, relaxing on formal wear and catering more and more to American tastes isn’t helping.

[Desert Cruisers]

3 hours ago, TRLD said:

So do other lines. Does not change where CCL positions and considers them. Read their 10k.

 

Just as the NA focused line have ships in Europe and Asia, those lines are still NA focused.

 

In either case they accept passengers from any area, but their targeted markets is clear.

 

Also does not change how and where they market.  The majority of their marketing focus and spend is UK.

Starting in June 2025, Queen Elizabeth will be spending its days sailing out of Seattle or Miami. Also, now that Cunard has added Queen Anne, Queen Mary 2 will be spending more time serving North American passengers who are attracted by roundtrip European adventures out of NYC. It's clear that CNL sees opportunities for Cunard in the NA market.  As someone who has cruised Cunard in Alaska, across the pond, & in Europe, I would describe their focus as the international market.  We find it attractive to meet people from all over the world.

[tampabrat22]

I was at a Princess event last year and they were talking about their "image rebrand". We were told their target market is Gen X and that they are trying to become more family friendly. Not full scale like RCL or Carnival but they definitely want a piece of the multi-generational travel market.

[SCX22]

15 minutes ago, vjmatty said:

Well if their goal truly is as you say a higher EU/UK market than US, judging by the population onboard, they’re not doing so well with that.   But that could be based on what cruising.mark.uk is talking about….the brand has changed dramatically since CCL took over. Switching to USD, relaxing on formal wear and catering more and more to American tastes isn’t helping.

 

  

36 minutes ago, TRLD said:

SEC filings such as the 10k and 10Q tend to be a bit different since incorrect statements in those filings have legal ramifications.

 

Not to get caught in the cross fire...

But I think that CCL considers Cunard European is because it's headquarters are in the UK and is part of Carnival UK, so it's lumped with the other European based lines, Costa, P&O, and AIDA, which all have HQ in Europe.  I do think the more and more North American cruisers are coming to the brand.  A lot of my parents' friends have cruised with Cunard in the past few years.

Edited July 18 by SCX22

[mrstmaxx96]

Can the poster please explain how Princess is 'woke'?  Thank you

[TRLD]

33 minutes ago, vjmatty said:

Well if their goal truly is as you say a higher EU/UK market than US, judging by the population onboard, they’re not doing so well with that.   But that could be based on what cruising.mark.uk is talking about….the brand has changed dramatically since CCL took over. Switching to USD, relaxing on formal wear and catering more and more to American tastes isn’t helping.

Have not said anything about their goals. Only that CCL considers Cunard to be a UK focused line, as part of their EU business. 

 

That the majority of Cunards marketing spend is UK.

 

From the Cunard cruises I have been on usually one a year passengers from the UK still make up the single largest group compared to other nationalities.

 

That while Princess and HAL are both considered to be NA adult focused lines, Cunard is part of the European business and has a UK focus.

 

Possibly they might change positioning in the future but it is what it is today. Also keep in mind that Cunard has a very small percentage of CCL total passenger capacity.  More than luxury Seabourne but less than each of the other lines.

Edited July 18 by TRLD

[Globaler]

2 hours ago, MacMadame said:

 

The other way is to listen to customers and give them exactly what they ask. Customers know their problems and pain points but they don't necessarily know all the possible solutions. 

 

They will be replaced with what makes sense at that time. So not necessarily with mega ships that are floating amusement parks. It will depend on what cruise lines think the market will want by the time the ship is finished. 

 

Do they have kettles in all the staterooms without being asked? Then it's a UK-focused line. 😉

I wasn’t referring to mega ships that are floating amusement parks

[Globaler]

46 minutes ago, mrstmaxx96 said:

Can the poster please explain how Princess is 'woke'?  Thank you

I was referring to the Sun and I think you know what I meant. If not then don’t worry about it 😉

Edited July 18 by Globaler

[galensgrl]

On 7/16/2024 at 5:18 PM, SCX22 said:

 

Outliers don't make a statistic.  AARP released a study about Boomers and technology in 2023.  68% of 50-plus consumers don't think technology is designed with them in mind. 

 

 

I hate it when the power goes out and I don't have pc access. I feel lost. I've worked with computers for thirty years, and I'm in my early sixties. I don't own a tv because I watch shows and movies on my pc. I love playing games, World of Warcraft is my favorite. Having pc access is vital to me. 

[SCX22]

7 minutes ago, galensgrl said:

I hate it when the power goes out and I don't have pc access. I feel lost. I've worked with computers for thirty years, and I'm in my early sixties. I don't own a tv because I watch shows and movies on my pc. I love playing games, World of Warcraft is my favorite. Having pc access is vital to me. 

And yet there are some on this very thread that have stated they can disconnect.  Like I said in other posts, there are always outliers but data is used to come up with trends to either develop theories of causation or correlation.  In this case not all have adapted like the outliers.

[Outerdog]

On 7/15/2024 at 9:23 AM, Paula_MacFan said:

I'm trying to figure out what you mean by 'woke'. 

 

People that use this term don't even know what it means. I usually take it to mean "things I don't like or agree with" and pretty much stop reading at that point.

 

 

[Globaler]

3 minutes ago, Outerdog said:

 

People that use this term don't even know what it means. I usually take it to mean "things I don't like or agree with" and pretty much stop reading at that point.

 

 

Indeed your choice.

[Iamcruzin]

On 7/16/2024 at 2:28 AM, MyriamS said:

When I first joined those forums, what surprised me was the strong brand loyalty from some posters towards a cruise line. I don't think I've seen such loyalty in the travel and leisure space before, e.g. towards an airline or hotel chain. I wonder if it's age dependent or just something specific to the cruising community. 

 

We are millennials and we are not brand loyal. My partner and I need to consider cruise price, itinerary, dates as well as the cost of flights to the cruise port since we live in Munich. Only after all of this can we potentially consider the ship or brand. I sign up to loyalty schemes but I know I will likely never benefit from them (except the 5% off discount from MSC as it is valid after your first MSC cruise). 

 

When I talked to him about this, my partner laughed and said cruise lines off all the same services anyway, so why would anyone be loyal to a single cruise line? While I don't quite agree with him, I do think people who cruise on a mainstream line would probably like other mainstream lines, premium line cruisers other premium lines, luxury cruisers other luxury lines (or luxury ship within a ship experiences) etc. It seems worth trying at least. No need to wait until your favorite line disappoints you and you leave them in a huff (which also seems very common here!).

I have been sailing Princess since 1991 before loyalty programs were a thing. At that time they offer a good product and I was loyal at the time because they met my needs. Over the years the itineraries changed. They weren't offering Caribbean Sailings from NY and there was a time that they moved their fleet to Europe and Alaska for the summer when my children would have been out of school. So I turned to Celebrity and Royal Caribbean who sailed where and when I wanted to go. to my surprise they were more like Princess then not.

 

What I found different is the room accommodations were more comfortable with larger showers and seating in every category from inside and above. Princess rooms don't even have a proper chair to sit in anymore. I rank them now as the worst rooms at sea unless you book a deluxe balcony which isn't available on the older ships or a Mini Suite. The food is comparable on all three lines but all three lines have declined in this area over the years.

 

During my working years I never had the time to sail often with limited vacation time and with kids in school it was expensive during peak season so the loyalty programs didn't entice me. Itinerary and value was and still is the driving factor when choosing a cruise line. Now when you read any of these boards you are constantly reminded by the the upper tier how much their benefits have declined and they feel slighted by the cruise line. As much as they complain they still book the same line which sends the wrong message. I have noticed that some of the long time loyalist on Princess and Celebrity have moved on to Virgin Voyages who was matching loyalty programs to theirs. Which by the way, their loyalty program is more attainable if the experience meets your needs.  So for some the loyalty programs work enough to keep them coming back. I think they are going to have change their marketing to entice the next generation. 

[SCX22]

1 hour ago, Iamcruzin said:

They weren't offering Caribbean Sailings from NY and there was a time that they moved their fleet to Europe and Alaska for the summer when my children would have been out of school. So I turned to Celebrity and Royal Caribbean who sailed where and when I wanted to go. to my surprise they were more like Princess then not.

 

This!  The Caribbean is easy money and family friendly.  It's why RC and Carnival can sail there year round and sail ships that are full.  IMO, Princess is late to the game when it comes to the Caribbean.  The Enchanted is in the Caribbean this summer and having been monitoring the sailings, they are going out full and the lowest fares have been in the $900s.  

[rocker57]

Do you think that mega ships are sustainable? It seems more and more of the world is getting tired of thousands of people descending into their towns. More places are limiting how many ships/people are allowed and even cutting down days. These huge monstrosities are going to find it more difficult to find places to port or tender I think as time goes by. People may want to sail in them, but ports may be limited.  I have only sailed Princess 9 times, I’ll never make Elite, because getting up there in years, and living on the west coast of Canada isn’t conducive to many cruises without flying. I don’t mind some kids on a cruise, but have no wish to sail with hundreds of them. I will probably take my dollars and spend it at an all inclusive adults only. The rooms are bigger, there’s really isn’t any nickel and dimeing, larger pools, beaches, more restaurants, and now in Mexico, no smoking.

[SCX22]

12 minutes ago, rocker57 said:

Do you think that mega ships are sustainable?

Royal Caribbean has admitted that bigger isn’t necessarily better with Project Discovery.  Under this project they will commission and build smaller ships to replace their aging fleet of smaller ships.  How big, how many, and when remains the question.  The Caribbean is one place where ultra mega ships are port viable; locals there don’t seem to mind and the piers have been retrofitted to handle their size.  Princess is late to the game when it comes to mega ships.  It only goes to my theory that Princess is follower not a trendsetter in the industry.  The Star’s debut in 2025 is the last ship that’s currently in the books for Princess.  Under the CCL umbrella a new yet to be named Excel Class for Carnival is debuting in 2027.  It’s the last new build for CCL for now.  It might be a while until Princess sees new ship and we can only speculate on the size, but given Princess’ past pattern of releasing multiple copies of the same class ship, it might be another Sphere Class.  Having said that the Grand, Coral, and Island will be approaching 30 years old by that time.

 

Personally wouldn’t mind if Princess built something to the likes of Celebrity’s Edge Class.  They are a manageable size and very contemporary.  Then, again Princess doesn’t have a track record of being forward thinking and trendsetting.

[MyriamS]

As much as I would love cruise lines to have a more European focus, I have to admit it will never be as profitable a market as the US. Royal Caribbean's strategy of doing mostly short cruises in the Carribbean where US customers will spend lavishly to make up for their short PTOs is probably the right one to maximise revenue. The mega ship trend also makes sense: it allows for economy of scales and, since the itineraries are short and the port stops always the same, you can market the ship itself as the destination ("the ultimate resort at sea").

 

I do like a big ship myself: if I spend a week or more at sea, I want plenty to explore and things to do. However, I do think like all trends they will fall out of favour. Look at Marvel movies: when Iron Man was released in 2008, it was a fresh and fun take on the super hero genre, which I (and many others) enjoyed very much. Marvel then built a whole storyline across over a dozen high budget movies (very innovative for the time) and they were wildly successful. In 2019, they wrapped it up with Avengers: Endgame, which made them a bucket load of money. But then they didn't stop and rethink their strategy. They kept churning out movies after movies until people (myself included) grew tired of them and they went from box office hits to bombs. 

 

The Oasis of the Seas was launched around the same as Iron Man was released and, like Marvel, Royal Caribbean proposed a new concept that appealed to customers and they were very successful with it. Other cruise lines jumped in on the trend and started building their own resorts at sea. But it's been fifteen years now, so I bet that at some points all those mega ships will start feeling samey and people will want something different. I know it seems like madness to stop doing something that is incredibly popular and lucrative, but too many big companies make the mistake of focusing only on their short-term profit over their long-term earnings. Building those mega ships is a huge time and money investment so, if people tires of them, cruise lines could find themselves with a lot of surplus capacity.

 

Which would be great for us cruisers as they would have to discount their fares! 🙂

 

If I were the CEO of a cruise line, I would at least start thinking about pivoting away from mega ships. Maybe order a small ship alongside all the big ones and hype it up as a "new vacation concept", offering "unique itineraries", "more intimate atmosphere"... then see how people react. This might be where Royal Caribbean is going with their Project Discovery, so maybe I'm not too far off the mark. 

 

[Cruisemeister2002]

On 7/16/2024 at 11:37 AM, PoppyVelvet said:

We’re Gen X (56/58) and can see the point in loyalty to an airline but never cruises. Airline loyalty can get you meaningful benefits but very little appeals to me about cruise loyalty programs. Our next five cruises are Princess, Oceania, Norwegian, Viking River and Silversea.

 

We prefer the “IKEA” decor, e.g., Norwegian Prima, over the old orange wood style, e.g., Diamond Princess. Our next Princess cruise will probably be our last, unless it’s truly impressive. Of course, sailing out of Australia we mostly get the older ships ☹️

I think you do as you see. We have been loyal to P&O some 17 cruises over 22 years, we missed four years due to Covid. You may be correct in your assumption that only when things go wrong people change as due to a far from satisfactory cruise onboard P&O Ventura last year we are on Sky Princess later this year. But can it also be called satisfaction other than loyalty as if you are happy with a certain cruise line and the itinerary suits why "jump ship" and go elsewhere. We would probably have stuck with P&O had the cruise been a 7 out of 10. Sadly it was more like a 1 out of 10. 

[Iamcruzin]

7 hours ago, SCX22 said:

 

This!  The Caribbean is easy money and family friendly.  It's why RC and Carnival can sail there year round and sail ships that are full.  IMO, Princess is late to the game when it comes to the Caribbean.  The Enchanted is in the Caribbean this summer and having been monitoring the sailings, they are going out full and the lowest fares have been in the $900s.  

They need to revamp Princess Cay. It's the worst cruise line island around. I shy away from any itinerary that goes there. Tendering is not worth the visit. The ocean floor is filled with sharp coral and rocks. Don't even go in without water shoes as my wife sliced her foot the last time we were there. I would also like to see them do 7 day Bermuda itineraries. Although now that I live in Florida it might just be a hassle now to fly to New York.

[Iamcruzin]

2 hours ago, Cruisemeister2002 said:

I think you do as you see. We have been loyal to P&O some 17 cruises over 22 years, we missed four years due to Covid. You may be correct in your assumption that only when things go wrong people change as due to a far from satisfactory cruise onboard P&O Ventura last year we are on Sky Princess later this year. But can it also be called satisfaction other than loyalty as if you are happy with a certain cruise line and the itinerary suits why "jump ship" and go elsewhere. We would probably have stuck with P&O had the cruise been a 7 out of 10. Sadly it was more like a 1 out of 10. 

Bottom line is it should always come down to a good experience and not for a free load of wash and a bar set up. I cringe when I read about solos or couples booking each one in a suite on a two day reposition cruise just to get the extra points.  If you can afford to pay double to begin with you can afford to pay for plus package and pay for laundry or use the laundromat.

[MacMadame]

10 hours ago, rocker57 said:

Do you think that mega ships are sustainable?

I expect what is popular to continue to evolve. What that means for new ship builds remains to be seen. I think a smart cruise line will have a variety of types of ships from small to mega.

 

Btw, for those saying Boomers aren't good at technology or at least don't use it and your evidence is that a majority say that it isn't designed with them in mind, this is not evidence that Boomers don't use technology just that they want it to be designed differently.

 

Here are some statistics on Boomers and technology:

• 70% of Boomers own smartphones and 52% own tablets. 
• Over 70% of Boomers use social media platforms - but Facebook is the most popular which is not true for younger generations
• Boomers use the internet for most of the same purposes that other generations do though they are more likely to get their news from TV than from the internet
• Boomers prefer their UIs to be simpler and easier to learn

Edited July 18 by MacMadame

[Incognito1]

18 hours ago, SCX22 said:

Interesting to note that, according to Cruise Market Watch research, Celebrity brought in more passengers and revenue than Princess.  IMO, Celebrity is Princess' direct competition and does a better job at marketing and appealing to a younger segment.

I think it's because Celebrity has made a concerted effort to court the gay and lesbian market, a demographic that has more disposable income than most.  I would be interested in seeing statistics on cabins with 1 or 2 single males vs. cabins with man +woman, if there were any (I doubt it, but it would be interesting.) There are anecdotal posts all over the Internet about how gay-friendly the line is, and how gay-heavy the crew members on Celebrity are.

 

My take is that is the reason Celebrity has been doing well financially.  I don't see them as a direct competitor to Princess.

[Leo37]

If Princess is going through a rebrand I'd say it's a success. On board the Sun right now and having very good time. Overhearing conversations and chatting to others is interesting. Spoke to one couple today who have cruised before with Celebrity and Norwegian, but their first time with Princess and they love this ship and crew. Listened to a chat at Brunch between a large family comparing the Princess experience favourably to Oceania and Viking. 

[Incognito1]

17 hours ago, mrstmaxx96 said:

Can the poster please explain how Princess is 'woke'?  Thank you

IYKYK.

 

No point in the OP posting examples simply to be denigrated.

[Cruisemeister2002]

18 hours ago, tampabrat22 said:

I was at a Princess event last year and they were talking about their "image rebrand". We were told their target market is Gen X and that they are trying to become more family friendly. Not full scale like RCL or Carnival but they definitely want a piece of the multi-generational travel market.

I think it's o.k. as long as they don't want to be everything to everyone. I have on various occasions pointed out that and I presume it's the same in the US, that it's fine catering for the younger generation but it's the silver surfers that fill cruise lines ships when the kids are back at school and Mum (Mom) and Dad are back to work after their holidays (vacation).