Ypres ships excursion

[lydnsyd]

Celebrity have an excursion to Ypres (7hr) just wondering if anyone has done this and their thoughts

[Harters]

I haven't done the excursion but, in real life, I'm a military history researcher and author, specialising in the Great War. I know the Ypres/Ieper area very well. It would take you several days to explore the area properly to understand what went on there. But, if you can post the itinerary (or a link to it), I will happily comment on how comprehensive a tour it is. Do you have any particular family connections with the war in that sector that you might hope to include in the day?

[Thejuggler]

I did a full day Tyne Cot cemetery, Passchendale Museum, Ypres tour in 2017.

 

The museum in Ypres was closed in prep for 100 year events in 2018, but despite this it was a very informative and moving experience.

 

Well worth it and if you are tempted to do similar read at least one book about Ypres and Passchendale before you go.

[Crown Vic]

2 hours ago, lydnsyd said:

Celebrity have an excursion to Ypres (7hr) just wondering if anyone has done this and their thoughts

Have done similar tours to Ypres. There are 'musts' to see such as Market Square, the Flanders Field museum, the Menin Gate, cemeteries around the area, the aid station where Col Dr John McRae wrote his now famous poem in 'Flanders Field' and so on. Visiting the area and battle sites was a sobering and rewarding but emotional experience. Go for it. Cheers...

[lydnsyd]

1 hour ago, Harters said:

I haven't done the excursion but, in real life, I'm a military history researcher and author, specialising in the Great War. I know the Ypres/Ieper area very well. It would take you several days to explore the area properly to understand what went on there. But, if you can post the itinerary (or a link to it), I will happily comment on how comprehensive a tour it is. Do you have any particular family connections with the war in that sector that you might hope to include in the day?

Thank you for your reply. The tour (7hrs) is called - Destination Highlights : Ypres in Flanders Field

Visit in Flanders field, a visit to Tyne Cot cemetery, a Stop at Menin Gate. Hear the story of John McCrae and visit the museum.

Sadly I don't know much about my family history but will have a look on the wall.

[Harters]

It sounds like a decent one day tour.

 

The In Flanders Field museum is a really good experience. It was pre-Covid when I last visited but I don't think the concept has changed. One of the things I like is that you can follow a particular persons progress through the war.

 

The Menin  Gate is a few minutes stroll away. It commemorates over 70 thousand soldiers who were killed but who have no known grave. Noting your location, maybe look out for the Berkshire Regiment panels. If there's time, stroll along the ramparts to the Ramparts War Graves Cemetery near the Lille Gate.

 

Tyne Cot is the largest of the cemeteries maintained by  the Commonwealth War Graves Commission. It's size and the sheer number of burials is very moving. Remnants of the original German concrete machine gun posts are still in the cemetery and its them that give it its name - Tyneside soldiers reckoned it reminded them of local cottages - Tyne Cot, get it? There's also another memorial wall at the back of the cemetery commemorating more men who have no known grave. Look out over what is now a quiet rural area and try to imagine what it must have been like for the men in 1917. 31 July 1917 was the worst day of the whole war for the men of my local Territorial battalion, the 6th Cheshires. They attacked from a couple of miles away, nearer to Ypres, towards this location.  There's a little museum and interpretative centre also at the back. And loos!

 

Mention of John McRae suggests you'll also be visiting Essex Farm war graves cemetery. Originally, this was a dressing station just behind the front line where McCrae was the doctor in charge. A dressing station was the first place a wounded man might receive emergency surgery - just enough to stabilise him so he could be evacuated to a field hospital. The number of burials here - around 1000 - shows some didnt make it, in spite of the efforts of the medics. The original concrete bunkers where they worked still exist. 

 

You should find it an interesting day - if not one that's a lot of fun. I would always suggest trying to personalise a visit if possible. If there's no known family members, look out for burials with your surname or for men who came from where you live. The War Graves Commission website is searchable for both these for the two cemeteries and the two memorials mentioned. I remember my niece being on a school trip to the area and phoning me from a cemetery saying she'd found a grave with the surname and wanted me to check if it might have been a family member. Took me  a couple of minutes to conclude it wasnt but he is now "her soldier". 

 

But, if you have time in the town centre of Ypres (now Ieper) there are chocolate shops on the main square. Well worth a visit. 

[gumshoe958]

3 hours ago, lydnsyd said:

Thank you for your reply. The tour (7hrs) is called - Destination Highlights : Ypres in Flanders Field

Visit in Flanders field, a visit to Tyne Cot cemetery, a Stop at Menin Gate. Hear the story of John McCrae and visit the museum.

Sadly I don't know much about my family history but will have a look on the wall.

Assuming you’re docking in Zeebrugge, note that Ypres is about an hour’s drive so at least two of those seven hours will be spent on the road.

[Thejuggler]

But during those hours if your guide is as good as ours you will get an excellent commentary about the Great War which sets you up for the visits which follow.

Edited September 5 by Thejuggler

[Harters]

And, if docking at Zeebrugge, hopefully the guide will mention the raid on the German held port by Royal Marines in April 1918, It was one of the great acts of bravery during the war and resulted in the award of eight Victoria Crosses. Unusually, there was a ballot of the men to decide who would actually receive them, as it was otherwise impossible to single out particular individuals. 

 

Most of the journey from the port to Ieper is through  what was German held territory, so there's little of the war to see. You will pass close to the village of Gulleghem near to where my great uncle, Robert Brough,  was killed in September 1918. Here's his story

http://www.hellfirecorner.co.uk/hartley/jhbrough.htm

[lydnsyd]

7 minutes ago, Harters said:

And, if docking at Zeebrugge, hopefully the guide will mention the raid on the German held port by Royal Marines in April 1918, It was one of the great acts of bravery during the war and resulted in the award of eight Victoria Crosses. Unusually, there was a ballot of the men to decide who would actually receive them, as it was otherwise impossible to single out particular individuals. 

 

Most of the journey from the port to Ieper is through  what was German held territory, so there's little of the war to see. You will pass close to the village of Gulleghem near to where my great uncle, Robert Brough,  was killed in September 1918. Here's his story

http://www.hellfirecorner.co.uk/hartley/jhbrough.htm

What an absolutely fascinating read thank you for sharing 

[Harters]

Forgot to mention - the nightly ceremony at the Menin Gate takes place at 8pm. Your tour probably doesnt include this but , if you are still in town, it is an absolute "must". The local fire brigade bugle band have been playing the Last Post there every night since the 1920s (except when the Germans were back in WW2). I've been several times over the years - never fails to bring a tear to the eye.

[markeb]

4 hours ago, Harters said:

Forgot to mention - the nightly ceremony at the Menin Gate takes place at 8pm. Your tour probably doesnt include this but , if you are still in town, it is an absolute "must". The local fire brigade bugle band have been playing the Last Post there every night since the 1920s (except when the Germans were back in WW2). I've been several times over the years - never fails to bring a tear to the eye.

 

I was going to mention that, but it seems unlikely their tour will still be in Ieper at 8pm unless the ship is leaving VERY late...

 

Flanders really deserves (requires?) a land trip. As does Normandy. With a guide who knows some history of events...

[Harters]

20 minutes ago, markeb said:

With a guide who knows some history of events

Absolutely essential to get the best out of a trip. You need someone who can interpret the modern landscape in the context of the Great War. There are obviously several people out there who specialise in Flanders and/or the French battlefield areas. There are a couple of guys I know who both started out as researchers - as a hobby like me - but now have guiding businesses. They configure their trips for the specific needs of a customer - you want to know where Great Uncle Fred saw action and they will take you to the various sites. Often to the very spot within, literally, a few yards (modern technology allows such specific reading of wartime maps). 

[markeb]

2 minutes ago, Harters said:

Absolutely essential to get the best out of a trip. You need someone who can interpret the modern landscape in the context of the Great War. There are obviously several people out there who specialise in Flanders and/or the French battlefield areas. There are a couple of guys I know who both started out as researchers - as a hobby like me - but now have guiding businesses. They configure their trips for the specific needs of a customer - you want to know where Great Uncle Fred saw action and they will take you to the various sites. Often to the very spot within, literally, a few yards (modern technology allows such specific reading of wartime maps). 

I had the opportunity to tour the area with a NATO working group. Our guide was affiliated with the Belgian Armed Forces and the tour covered a couple of areas of particular interest to our group. For instance, the first use of a chemical weapon in warfare was adjacent to the German cemetery, which is itself a fascinating site to visit. 
 

I'd politely argue that Ieper is Richmond and Petersburg 150 years later with automatic weapons. Down to miners tunneling under trenches. 

[Harters]

12 hours ago, markeb said:

I'd politely argue that Ieper is Richmond and Petersburg 150 years later with automatic weapons.

I've been to the Petersburg Battlefield Park and would agree with you. Trench warfare. Tunnelling. Heavy artillery. Very much the same sort of war. 

 

By the by, although my focus is now the Great War, my interest in military history was first sparked by the war between the American states. We've visited several of the major battlefield parks over the years. One of the best couple of days was following the route of Lee's Retreat to Appomattox. 

 

When you visited St Julien, the site of the first use of poison gas, did you also get to stop by the "Brooding Canadian" memorial? I reckon it's probably the most impressive memorial out on the battlefield. For those not familiar with the history, when the Germans let the gas go, the French troops in the Allied trenches, broke ranks and fell back in disarray. Canadian troops in close reserve were rushed forward to re- establish the line, which  they held for two days. About 30% of their number became casualties - some killed or wounded, others effected by the gas. The Brooding Canadian commemorates their bravery. 

[Crown Vic]

On 9/7/2024 at 7:26 AM, Harters said:

When you visited St Julien, the site of the first use of poison gas, did you also get to stop by the "Brooding Canadian" memorial? I reckon it's probably the most impressive memorial out on the battlefield. For those not familiar with the history, when the Germans let the gas go, the French troops in the Allied trenches, broke ranks and fell back in disarray. Canadian troops in close reserve were rushed forward to re- establish the line, which  they held for two days. About 30% of their number became casualties - some killed or wounded, others effected by the gas. The Brooding Canadian commemorates their bravery. 

The top of the memorial forms the bowed head and shoulders of a Canadian soldier. The soldier's hands rest on the butt of his down-turned rifle in the 'arms reversed' position, a pose used as gesture of mourning and respect for the fallen performed at funerals and services of remembrance. An apt memorial and one that stirs one’s emotions but, perhaps, ‘Brooding’ is not the best descriptor for the monument. Cheers…

[John Bull]

On 9/5/2024 at 5:05 PM, lydnsyd said:

Thank you for your reply. The tour (7hrs) is called - Destination Highlights : Ypres in Flanders Field

Visit in Flanders field, a visit to Tyne Cot cemetery, a Stop at Menin Gate. Hear the story of John McCrae and visit the museum.

Sadly I don't know much about my family history but will have a look on the wall.

 

Firstly if you're having a battle with Google over the word "Ieper", the town is called "Ypres" in French, British soldiers called it "Wipers" (not worldly-wise in the matters of foreign spelling & pronunciation 😏).

In Flemish it's "Ieper" - that first letter is a capital i, not an L.

 

Yes, it's about an hour's travel from your port of Zeebrugge.

 

The Ypres salient was a very British & Commonwealth (mainly Canadian) affair, plus Belgians & some French - US soldiers served a lot further south on the Western Front.

 

Tyne Cot cemetery is large & sobering. You'll almost certainly pass a number of smaller British & Commonwealth cemeteries dotted along the roadsides. 

 

As @Harters's post, the Menin Gate is a must. It's one of the gates thro the town walls (much of the town walls & moat remain). It's only a short walk from the Cloth Hall along the main street.

Last Post is played there every evening by local buglers - of course you won't be there for the ceremony, but the Gate is also a memorial, with the names of tens of thousands of names of those with no known graves inscribed on its walls. https://lastpost.be/ and an amateur video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijRj9bcIaYM

 

The Brooding Soldier statue is a few miles outside Ypres - hopefully your bus will drive past, or even stop.

 

Sad to say, we were disappointed by the "In Flanders Fields" museum in Ypres.

It's in the Cloth Hall, a magnificent building along with the adjacent cathedral. Both were totally destroyed during WW1, if you search googleimages you'll see photos of the stump that remained in 1918. 

Both the Cloth Hall & the cathedral were rebuilt exactly as they had been, and yes they're as magnificent as they were.

But the museum is heavy on spacious modern presentation and very very light on artefacts, IMHO a triumph of style over substance - you may think differently. 

 

The town is very pleasant, with plenty of interesting independent shops & watering-holes.

 

There are a lot of more-interesting museums (and the remains of trenches) in the area -  it sounds like your tour won't include any, but you're not a million miles away and the visit may encourage you to return for a few days. 

 

JB 🙂

 

 

[Harters]

1 hour ago, John Bull said:

Google over the word "Ieper", the town is called "Ypres" in French

And that's now it's modern name. Some years back, each Belgian province was designated as either Dutch speaking or French speaking. Flanders is one of the Dutch speaking ones - you'll find all the road signs, etc, now in the Dutch version. The whole thing is a touchy political issue in the country, with the main political party in Flanders campaigning for independence.  

 

It's often said, with some justification, that every battalion of the British Army fought in the Ypres area during the war. My grandfather's unit, the 17th Manchesters, played a significant part in the attack on the first day of the Third Battle of Ypres - on 31/7/17. My local Territorial Army battalion, the 6th Cheshires also attacked that day - it proved to be Stockport's worst day for casualties in the whole war. My histories of both units are published by Pen & Sword. 

[Harters]

26 minutes ago, Harters said:

My histories of both units are published by Pen & Sword. 

Correction: Whilst P & S published my Cheshires book (and two others on the war), the Manchesters book was published by Reveille Press.