Beating the bar tab

[Vicar]

Linda,


You bring up many excellent points. You are absolutely correct, when you are on someone elses turf you obey those rules, otherwise don't go there.

I completely agree that there should be no problem taking something off the ship that you have paid for to consume while ashore. I buy a bottle of water at the 7-11 at home , they don't expect me to stand there in the 7-11 and drink it. its not a matter of being cheap or trying to sell it to the islanders at black market prices. *LOL*

S7S,

I see your point exactly, you take a bottle of water with you in ports that you don't feel comfortable with the level of sanitary conditions, and in some place I DON"T BLAME YOU.


As for smuggleing Kegs and cases and stills and whatever else they sneak on board, If the cruiseline prohibits it , then that is their turf, they made the rules and it is wrong to do so.

As for me, I have enough crap to lug around (suitcases, carry on bags , camera bags etc) between home, the airport, the ship, and back again) to be bothered adding bottles and cases and kegs to my load .

GF and I are not THAT big of drinkers that we need to hide liqour everywhere like Jack Lemmon in "The Days of Wine and Roses" *LOL*


LINDA<

I agree with your Mother in law 100%, Go on a "VACATION" . maybe you can't go to the swankiest place on earth , but take a trip where someone else, cooks and cleans and waits all week.

When we were kids we always took nice trips where we stayed in nice motels and always ate out even if it was a Motel 6 and ate at a diner, it was still a treat for my mom too.

One year my sister somehow talked my parents into taking our family on a vacation with her friends family to some cabin on a lake. I guess these people did this every year since time began. Same thing as your MIL, the kids played and swam all day, the men fished and played cards , and the women shopped cooked and cleaned . After three days my mother said ENOUGH!!!!
and that was that.

Since then my mothers idea of "Roughing it" is booking an inside cabin. *LOL*

You only live once , so enjoy !!!!!!

[ryansmemom]

[quote name='stillfrantic']Well, the smuggling food on issue....why would HAL care, and why would anyone need to? Alcohol I can see as a debate, but why would HAL care if I brought food onboard? It is all free onboard. I guess I am still confused.

Okay, now I will offer up another scenario for those who feel strongly that it is just plain terrible for me to take a small number of cans of a dark beer onboard for my husband to drink on our verandah. Have any of you gone 26 in a 25 MPH zone? Anyone actually received a ticket for speeding? What about being a day late on your car's state inspection? All of those things are actually laws and do truly endanger others on the road and sidewalks. Has anyone had a glass of wine with dinner and driven home? Again, putting others in danger. How is my Guiness Draught on my own verandah endangering anyone or compromising others enjoyment of their own cabins or public areas on the ship?[/QUOTE]

Brava!! I agree, Stillfrantic and heartofamerica you both just endorsed HAL's original alcohol policy. This was exactly the way things were until a few months ago before HAL abruptly changed their long standing liberal policy that allowed people to bring a small quantity of [COLOR=Purple]the beverage of their choice[/COLOR] on board. They could bring this on right in the open. No need to smuggle. No need to sneak anything on. They supplied glasses, ice. It was completly kosher. Most people were very happy. We were all self respecting guests.

Then things changed. Why? No one knows for sure. Did HAL become greedy? Some think so. Maybe. I don't know. They are a really big corporation and have never nickel and dimed before. They have been a class act for a long time. But, maybe. A lot of people think so.

Another explaination is that too many people pushed that envelope. A small amount of beverages became cases of beverages. Beverages to be consumed in the cabin started showing up all over the ship. HAL was losing contol over their space. Just a theory. Can the behavior of a small number of people affect the experience of the rest. You better believe it!

What do you think? This is just my opinion. This is a great discussion. Let's keep it going. No one has to change anything they do. No judgement. Just opinions. This is not personal. However, you cannot escape the consequences of your behavior.

This is a good discussion. No flames please. No personal attacks. Let's not get shut down.

Linda

[sail7seas]

I agree, Linda, that this has thus far been a civil conversation.

I have been interested to read the various points of view and reasons for them.

But I wonder what use would be speculative conversation as to why HAL changed their policy. What seems to be the fact is that "it is their ship" and they can do what they want. (as you so well put it in previous posts).

We can talk about each person's view of why the policy changed but unless someone of authority from HAL comes here and tells us, we will still not know the REAL reason. All we will be doing is criticising the policy and what useful purpose does that serve? I sincerely doubt it will be changed back to what it used to be.

[staufj22]

[quote name='sail7seas']
We can talk about each person's view of why the policy changed but unless someone of authority from HAL comes here and tells us, we will still not know the REAL reason. All we will be doing is criticising the policy and what useful purpose does that serve? I sincerely doubt it will be changed back to what it used to be.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. No one really knows why HAL changed their policy. Some comments in this thread, tho, seem to specifically target those who bring beverages onboard as the sole cause of this change.
Alas, since it is HAL's ship, and no one can say for sure why their policy changed, its really up to the individules to decide if its okay or not.
I for one don't chase down cars who drive above the speed limit, I leave that to the people who enforces it. In this case, it would be HAL.

I guess this whole thread started when someone in another forum asked for advise on taking alcahol onboard. How's this different then someone asking where police speed traps are?

[stillfrantic]

I just found this on the HAL website:

IMPORTANT: Do not pack your passport, medications, cruise documents or airline tickets. Keep them close at hand in your purse or jacket pocket. We also strongly suggest that you carry or otherwise keep with you important items such as perishables, medicine, [b][u]liquor[/u][/b], cash, credit or debit cards, jewelry, gold, silver, or similar valuables, securities, financial instruments, records or other valuable or business documents, laptop computers, cellular telephones, cameras, hearing aids, electric wheelchairs, scooters, or other video or electronic equipment, binoculars, film, videotape, computer disks, audio disks, tapes or cds. (Remember that checked baggage might not be accessible at all times.) Holland America assumes no responsibility for the items listed above.

(I underlined and bolded the word within the quote.)

Have the cruise documents changed as to what is spelled out in the rules, or has it been a hit or miss change, like the shorts in the dining room & the elimination of suite perks?

[ryansmemom]

The reason mentioned HAL's changed liquor policy was not to start a discussion speculating on this subject. My aim is to keep things more abstract. I merely used it as an example of how the behavior of a few can cause consequenses to all of us. None of us know why the policy was changed and that is irrelivant to this discussion because it is a done deal and we are powerless to change it. However, it is an example that we can all understand, because it hits close to home.

If you stop and think about it, this thought process can be applied to many of the explosive topics we discuss here on this message board. It really helps to keep it abstract and not get into the individual items. The same principles apply. If you think about it and discuss it on an intellectual level we can all learn from each other and understand each other's point of view. We all have wisdom to share. We all do the things that are meaningful to us and make sense to us-Even if they don't seem that way to others.

Linda

[staufj22]

[quote name='ryansmemom']I merely used it as an example of how the behavior of a few can cause consequenses to all of us. None of us know why the policy was changed and that is irrelivant to this discussion [/QUOTE]


I'll have to disagree with you there. It is extremely important to know why the policy was changed, especially if you're going to use it as "an example of how the behavior of a few can cause consequenses to all of us".


*Abstract example here*
If, lets say, the reason HAL changed the policy is because the Euro is stronger then the Dollar. How is bringing cases of liquor going to be an example?

[stillfrantic]

Linda: I wasn't speculating why it changed, only asking how do we know it was changed. What I copied I got directly off the information for booked guests from the HAL website today. It clearly says to hand carry liquer and not pack it in a suitcase. So, everyone is here is telling me I can't pack alcohol, yet HAL is telling me I can.

[helenp2]

We sailed on the Summit this past Thanksgiving and in their liquor store, they advertised that if you saw it cheaper in port they would match that same price. So, they were selling Absolut Vodka liters for $5.99 with no premiums attached to take back to your room. When I asked how come they weren't charging an extra 20% for on board consumption, his answer was "they told us to sell all of our liquors for the same price and not to add a premium". He also went on to tell me that they are a private concession and do liquor sales for most of the major cruise lines (including HAL). Imagine my surprise when I sailed the very next month at Christmas on the Rotterdam and they not only did not charge a premium, they would not allow anyone to purchase liquor for in cabin use. Their manager was very upset, said they were losing big bucks due to HAL's policy and he thought they would probably drop HAL from their list of cruise lines that they service. Very confusing liquor policies on HAL.

[sail7seas]

We know it has changed because of all of us who have cruised and have experienced the change in policy. The written materials either have not been corrected or is it possible you are not reading a very current writing?


In any case, rest assured, the liquor policy has changed.

[stillfrantic]

That is what I was asking...is the change a change written in the document package or a difference you found upon embarkation? What I copied and pasted was retrieved from a current page on the official HAL website today under the tab "For Booked Guests." It was under the "10 most fequently asked questions" category. Like I said, everyone is saying HAL is telling us their rule and we should abide by their rule, but so far people here are the only ones who have said I couldn't. From what I read on the official website, they consider it among my most valued possessions.

[GAndie]

I'm just wondering what's wrong with abiding by the rules? You sign a contract with the cruise line and the contract has certain rules and policies that you agree to.

I find it dishonest and frankly I think people who think it's cool or their right to break the contract are acting like peasants and those people were relegated to the bowels of the ship back when cruising had classes.

I think HAL is probably one of the classiest lines around and that's why I choose to sail with HAL. I'd hope the other passengers had at least some self respect.

Why not just sail on one of the happy holiday cruise lines where the other riff-raff sail where people blatently break their contract?

I've never read about this type of behavior on Seabourne or Crystal Cruise lines. Maybe in the last 10 years HAL has taken on too much of Carnival's flavor.

[superstein61]

[quote name='Joedog']I don't believe that anyone said they wanted to smuggle alcohol on board so they could incovenience others by causing delays in the boarding lines or to get overly drunk by the pool.

Certainly any adult could get as much alcohol delivered to him just about anywhere on the ship to get as drunk as it takes to make a fool out of himself. And, in this age of terrorism that we live in, the inspecting of carry on luggage would continue even if there was no alcohol to smuggle.

I dont remember who said it and I am not going to go back to check but I still dont see how anyone smuggling alcohol is really "ruining" anyone else's cruise.

The kind of person that gets drunk and acts stupid will get drunk and act stupid whether he/she smuggles the alcohol or buys it onboard.

Just my opinion[/QUOTE]

Agreed JoeDog, agreed !!!!!!!

[sail7seas]

[b]still frantic.....[/b]If, indeed, you truthfully are doubtful as to the reliability of the info provided here on this Board (and you most asssuredly have every right to doubt everything)....pick up your handy dandy telephone and call Seattle. That is where HAL has its headquarters. Someone/anyone/everyone there will be more than happy to assist with any questions you may have about any and all of their policies. You could take it up with them why their website has not been updated.

Here a few numbers you could begin with if you wish,

800-544-0443 Sales and Service
800-426-0327 Reservations
800-541-1576 Ships Services
800-637-5029 Public Relations

[superstein61]

[quote name='ryansmemom']I think the issue at hand is people [U]smuggling[/U] food and beverages [U]onto[/U] the ship against company policy and the affect this behavioir has on everyone else.

Linda[/QUOTE]

Linda, with all due respect, I don't see how me or someone else bringing on a couple 6 packs of Mountain Dew, or a bottle of rum and my blender has any affect on you and everyone else.

I am not setting up shop and selling my booze at a cheaper price than HAL. I am bringing it for my own consumption, because:

1. HAL doesn't offer Mountain Dew
2. I enjoy certain brands of Rum
3. HAL's drinks are overpriced

[superstein61]

[quote name='stillfrantic']Well, the smuggling food on issue....why would HAL care, and why would anyone need to? Alcohol I can see as a debate, but why would HAL care if I brought food onboard? It is all free onboard. I guess I am still confused.

Okay, now I will offer up another scenario for those who feel strongly that it is just plain terrible for me to take a small number of cans of a dark beer onboard for my husband to drink on our verandah. Have any of you gone 26 in a 25 MPH zone? Anyone actually received a ticket for speeding? What about being a day late on your car's state inspection? All of those things are actually laws and do truly endanger others on the road and sidewalks. Has anyone had a glass of wine with dinner and driven home? Again, putting others in danger. How is my Guiness Draught on my own verandah endangering anyone or compromising others enjoyment of their own cabins or public areas on the ship?[/QUOTE]

Excellent points Stillfrantic, excellent points !!!!!!!

[staufj22]

[quote name='GAndie']I'm just wondering what's wrong with abiding by the rules? You sign a contract with the cruise line and the contract has certain rules and policies that you agree to.

I find it dishonest and frankly I think people who think it's cool or their right to break the contract are acting like peasants and those people were relegated to the bowels of the ship back when cruising had classes.

I think HAL is probably one of the classiest lines around and that's why I choose to sail with HAL. I'd hope the other passengers had at least some self respect.

Why not just sail on one of the happy holiday cruise lines where the other riff-raff sail where people blatently break their contract?

I've never read about this type of behavior on Seabourne or Crystal Cruise lines. Maybe in the last 10 years HAL has taken on too much of Carnival's flavor.[/QUOTE]


Oh my.. peasants? Honestly, the word that came to mind when I read your comment was.. "smug". No offense, I just don't think of myself as that much higher then everyone else. Maybe because I don't have a drop of royal blood in me.

As in a previous posting... everyone who drives signed a contract to obey the posted speed limit. How many of us still only take the speed limit as a suggestion? I guess those of us are peasants as well.
I have to also admit, I sometimes walk acorss the street when the cross walk signal is red.
Let me ask you, sir, when your driver decides to go a mile or 2 above the posted speed limit, do you cast him/her as a peasant and outcast them to the country side?

[superstein61]

[quote name='GAndie']I'm just wondering what's wrong with abiding by the rules? You sign a contract with the cruise line and the contract has certain rules and policies that you agree to.

I find it dishonest and frankly I think people who think it's cool or their right to break the contract are acting like peasants and those people were relegated to the bowels of the ship back when cruising had classes.

I think HAL is probably one of the classiest lines around and that's why I choose to sail with HAL. I'd hope the other passengers had at least some self respect.

Why not just sail on one of the happy holiday cruise lines where the other riff-raff sail where people blatently break their contract?

[/QUOTE]

Sounds like you need schooled in the well popular art of bringing your blender aboard :)

Seriously, tell me you never broke a single rule in your life.

Tell me you never went a mile over the speed limit.

Tell me you never coasted thru a stop sign instead of coming to a full and complete stop for 2 seconds

Tell me you never went thru the express checkout with one item over the limit

I could go on - but I hear my fellow riff raff calling me :) - maybe they are having a party !!!

[Vicar]

GAndie

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Let me see ..
You claim that bringing liquor on board is a sign of being "Carnival Riff Raff " behavior .

And yet the bringing on of liquor problem has become such on HAL that they have had to make stricter policies regarding this matter.

Wouldn't that mean that there is just as much Riff Raff on HAL as there is on Carnival.

TO ALL THE GREAT PEOPLE I HAVE MET ON THIS BOARD PLEASE DO NOT TAKE OFFENSE, I WAS JUST TRYING TO MAKE A POINT TO THIS ONE POSTER!!

Plus GAndie asked if they have these problems on Seabourn or Sliversea.
Well I am not certain but don't those lines include ALL beverages in the prices of their cruises ?

I have seen their prices ...and if the dont, they should *LOL*

[lddam]

I was once taught that my right to swing my arm stops an inch and a half from someone else's nose. At that point, I'm infringing upon their rights; hence, placing me in the position of being in the wrong. I think that lesson can be applied to this discussion. HAL has the right to establish any and all rules and regulations it deems appropriate for its product. By extension, it also has the right to institute whatever measures it deems appropriate to enforce those rules and regulations. HAL, in my judgment, makes reasonable effort to inform passengers of what those rules and regulations are, and few if any passengers can claim ignorance. If one chooses to avail oneself of a HAL product, then that person does so with a moral and ethical obligation to abide by those rules and regulations. To do otherwise is immoral and unethical - plain and simple. Having a "rules are made to be broken" attitude evidenced by posts on this thread speaks volumes of one's value system.

Our responsibility rests in knowing what rules and regulations are in effect for a given product and then making an informed decision whether to book that product or not. We, as passengers, do not have the right to pick and choose which HAL regulations we will follow and which we will ignore. When we book a package, we book the entire package and live with the decision. If one believes that certain negative elements of a package are of such a magnitude as to affect one's sense of well being, then it behooves that person to seek out an experience which is more palatable. For many, the positive aspects of a HAL product more than compensates for the negative and continue to book with HAL. However, if enough passengers find HAL's regulations to be overly restrictive and choose other lines, then HAL will be forced to evaluate its policies in an attempt to reclaim its client base.

As an aside, many ports, especially in Europe, restrict items which are allowed to be carried off by cruise passengers, especially food items such as fruits, vegetables and "grain" products (breads, cakes, crackers, etc.). Although the cruise line may have no restrictions to taking food ashore, it may be simply enforcing local codes. It's always best to check before doing so.

Dave of ...

[Doristobill]

I'm confused. Is it OK to pack a bottle of vodka in my checked luggage to make a drink in the room or isn't it? It seems what I am reading is how to cheat if it's not OK. So if it's OK, why do I have to cheat?

[wdblake]

I would like to respond to the negative attitude towards those who bring their own alcohol on a cruise ship.
First of all I fail to understand the need to make personal slanders towards those who do this. Calling people peasants, smugglers, low class, cheap etc is a very small thing to do. It's a sad statement that a point can't be made without trying to make yourselves feel better at another persons expense.
That being said here is my take on the issue.

Smuggling is the transportation of "illegal" goods. Since the boat sells alcohol onboard it is not an illegal substance. Why then the no personal alcohol rule? One word...money. One of the biggest ways for a cruise ship to make money is through the sale of alcohol. Since bringing your own cuts into their profits it naturally benefits them to try to make a rule against it. They figure those who don't drink won't have a problem with it and those that do will suck it up and pay them. I personally don't believe I should be forced to buy ship only products. This rule is not established to protect passengers or provide safety its done merely to squeeze as much dime out of you thay can get. How would you like it if they told you you couldn't bring you own sun tan lotion but instead had to buy cruise ship lotion for $20 a bottle?

I have yet to see anyone flaunting their alcohol by the pool. My wife and I have brought our own to the pool. We keep it in a water bottle and mix our own drinks discretely. You may find this hard to believe but we don't stumble around with lamp shades on our heads, slurring our words, "ruining" others experience. If my quietly mixing myself a drink at my chair offends you then you have serious issues that extend well beyond this experience.

I also believe that trying to save money is not something to be ashamed of. My wife and I are quite frugal and it's because of this we are able to scrimp and save so we can cruise once and awhile. If you want to be some elitist then you should be sailing Crystal or Silver Seas so you truely can brag to your friends about how much money you spent on your cruise and how great your butler was and how you threw money around without a care.

Someone brought up not allowing someone to smoke in their office as a rule. But could you imagine if you charged someone five hundred dollars to sit in your office than told them they could smoke but only if they bought a pack from you for $10. How "moral" would that be.

Now about searching bags. Do you really believe that with 1000+ passengers they are going through everyones luggage looking for bottles? The reason it takes so long to get your luggage is that they have to deliver thousands of bags to their right rooms. This takes time. Also since 9/11 they have to check for items that might pose a security risk. People who bring their own on board are in no way affecting this process.

In closing I would like to say that if someone is not directly interfering with your cruise enjoyment what do you care what they do. The cruise ships don't need or want you to be their champion. They are not your hosts or your friends. They are in fact a business plain and simple and they will take anyones money as long as it is green. So sit back, relax, feel the warm ocean breeze and let the cruise ship people worry about who is doing what.
Just my two cents.

[stillfrantic]

S7S: I don't doubt your information. I have simply asked a couple of times where the written information is as the only written reference I can find says I can bring alcohol. I simply asked a question as to where I can read the official changed policy. Actually no one has answered that, but thanks for the phone numbers anywy.

Have any of you non "riff raff" posters ever taken a roll of breath mints into the movie theatre? What about forgotten gum in your purse or even cough drops? Please kindly deposit all items from your pockets and purses in the trash bin at the front door as the sign clearly says "NO OUTSIDE FOOD OR DRINK ALLOWED."

[stillfrantic]

Okay, finally I found more written information:

[b][size=3]Bringing Alcoholic Beverages Onboard[/size][/b]
Except for wine and champagne, alcoholic beverages purchased in the vessel's shops or otherwise brought on the ship cannot be consumed on the ship. Bottles and other containers will be collected for safekeeping and delivered to your stateroom on the last day of the voyage.

[superstein61]

[quote name='lddam'] Having a "rules are made to be broken" attitude evidenced by posts on this thread speaks volumes of one's value system.

[/QUOTE]

And people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Unless you can tell me you have never, ever broken a single rule in your life, then please keep your holier than thou comments to yourself.

I have no problem with folks disagreeing with my stance - but you can do so without these types of comments - because I am sure you have broken your fair share of rules in your lifetime.