RCCL Realization on Caribbean

[AFT_LOVER]

Just reading RCL news on my stock portfolio that sends me all news on all our stocks. This was quite interesting, as I have stated that just about every ship cruises Caribbean which to me is an overkill & finally RCCL is saying the same thing:

 

Royal's spreads have come under pressure since competitor Carnival Corp. (CCL.L: Quote, Profile, Research) (CCL.N: Quote, Profile, Research) in May cut its 2006 earnings outlook, citing weak demand for Caribbean cruises amid fears of more hurricanes and higher fuel costs. For details, see [iD:nN16409199].

[happy cruzer]

Yeah. I think the US cruiser might be getting tired of the very developed ports of the Carribbean. But at the same time they like sailing out of US ports to save money on air fare and I would assume it's considered a bit more secure than longer distance foreign travel.

 

So the cruise lines will have to solve this one.

 

I think maybe finding away to do the North of London area very reasonable would get some cruisers (many added the London to St Petersburg route but it's not easy on budget). Starting in London (providing round trip air to London for less than $500) and going on an northern loop around the British Isles. I've always wanted to do that cruise but its always too darn expensive and sold out because most lines only only have one or two ships doing it and only a few times a year.

 

For warmer cruising, if they could get you to Hawaii cheaper that would work.

 

I wonder if they work aggressively with the airlines to control costs and provide special flights? Maybe buy their own airline? Can they work on controlling port taxes and fees to add some new ports? I'd love to be the manager trying to solve this one. It's a neat opportunity as long as you keep mind you can't please all the people all the time.

 

On the other hand - Of course Carnival could be wrong and there was another reason that their results were disappointing....

[Lynnees]

I have to agree with RCL on that one. The Caribbean is getting boring. Between cruises and landbased vacations we've been there too many times. We have one booked for January but that's more to celebrate DH's birthday which is in January.

 

Also looking at it from a Canadian's perspective, air fare is high from anyplace in Canada to anywhere. We happen to be lucky in that we live on the U.S. border and fly out of the U.S. most of the time making flights more manageable.

 

Back to the subject at hand, there are too many ships doing the same circle in the Caribbean.

 

I have no idea what the answer is mind you.

[Sue L]

This is one of the reasons we are doing Panama this time, frankly I am sick of Cozumel, Grand Cayman and Barbados. There are just so many times you can go to the same islands.

 

The 11 day had all new ports to us except Aruba which we have only been to once and stayed on the beach, so this time we will see the island.

 

The cruiselines definitely need to come up with new and exciting itineraries and cheaper airfares. We want to take the kids somewhere next year and were looking at the Greek cruise. The airfare is 1200$ pp which is almost the same amount as the cruise itself.

 

What is ridiculous to me is that is costs the same to fly for 6 hours as it is spend 168 hours on ship for a week and get fed, entertained and pampered.

[MGilly]

What is ridiculous to me is that is costs the same to fly for 6 hours as it is spend 168 hours on ship for a week and get fed, entertained and pampered.

I think that's it in a nutshell. We took our family on a cruise during the holidays last year and had to sail out of San Juan. The airfare was just about the same price as the cruise! This year, we're driving to Tampa and sailing from there. We've tried to pick ports we haven't seen before, but then there's good old Cozumel - maybe we'll stay onboard the ship that day. (Is there any Caribbean cruise that does NOT go to Cozumel???)

 

I'd love for some of the mainstream lines to do a southeast Asia cruise during the summer. I've always wanted to see Japan, China, etc, but I cannot find any cruises during the summer - when I'd actually HAVE the time to cruise. (Teachers are limited in their vacation "windows.")

[isujim]

To me part of the problem is the continuation of building larger and larger mega ships........and not just RC. They can't go through the Panama Canal so where do they end up??? The Caribbean more times than not.....in an already saturated market. Once you build a mega ship, you have to deploy it someplace..........and the Freedom is sailing what? The Caribbean

 

Sue I agree with you on airfare........we considered the Splendour and the S. America itinerary but airfare was $1500pp........

[TheWog]

If I read this correctly it says Carnival cut its outlooks amid the weakened demand which has been sparked by Hurricane fears and fuel costs. I didn't see where it said the ports were boring and people aren't booking because of that.

 

Anyone know the ratio of new cruisers vs. returning cruisers on any given ship on any given sailing? I bet there are a lot of new cruisers who are experiencing these places for the first time.

[isujim]

Very good point WOG...........

 

While I can't specifically say what that ratio is of new to repeat passengers........I can tell you 18 months ago on our Caribbean Princess cruise they announced that 52% of the passengers were first time Princess cruisers. I was surprised the number was that high and that there weren't more Princess repeat passengers on board. Of course it doesn't answer how many had been to the Caribbean on other cruise lines.

[ROPD184]

If I read this correctly it says Carnival cut its outlooks amid the weakened demand which has been sparked by Hurricane fears and fuel costs. I didn't see where it said the ports were boring and people aren't booking because of that.

 

Anyone know the ratio of new cruisers vs. returning cruisers on any given ship on any given sailing? I bet there are a lot of new cruisers who are experiencing these places for the first time.

 

I couldnt agree with you more, we are new to cruising--having been on just one.BUT we loved it and the itenerary (spelling) so much we booked again...and im sure we will book another one once that one has been taken, if not before. Sure it would be nice to have options like Eastern/Wester Caribbean/Mexican rivierra/ and others leaving from Galveston (live in Ft Worth) but we dont. Hey...I just feel lucky to live within driving distance to a port...makes cruising muuuch cheaper. Anyway, I probably will feel differently about all this once ive been on 10 or so cruises...but my wife and I LOVE mexico...Cozumel and such...so we love this trip:D

[Dockman123]

If I read this correctly it says Carnival cut its outlooks amid the weakened demand which has been sparked by Hurricane fears and fuel costs. I didn't see where it said the ports were boring and people aren't booking because of that.

 

Anyone know the ratio of new cruisers vs. returning cruisers on any given ship on any given sailing? I bet there are a lot of new cruisers who are experiencing these places for the first time.

 

The term weakened demand could in part reflect cruisers feel of the current ports.:rolleyes:

[happy cruzer]

Yep I read that to mean there was a weakened demand and hurricanes and fuel costs. Hurricanes and fuel would be affecting more cruises than just the Caribbean ones.

 

I think the Caribbean market is saturated. Anytime you end up in a port like Saint Thomas, Cozymel, or Grand Cayman with 6 other ships you know that those routes are a bit overdone.

 

The Panama Canal is a good option too! I've done two PC cruises- one that went through the canal and one that went in and turned around and came back out. Enjoyed them both!

 

Someone made a point about repeat cruisers. Years ago I went on Enchanted Seas (Commodore) out of New Orleans. I believe that ship sailed consistently with about 30 to 50% repeaters; and I mean people doing the same ship with almost the same itenirary. They liked it because it was a great product (except for the older, smaller ship); the staff, food, and overall value was there. I'm not sure what caused the demise of Commodore but they were around quite awhile with that formula. Galaxy out of Galveston was pretty close to that style I thought but Celebrity won't have a ship in Galveston this next year. But RCI is adding Voyager which is the same company, hummm. Like I said earlier, I would love to be trying to figure this one out....

[TheWog]

The term weakened demand could in part reflect cruisers feel of the current ports.:rolleyes:

 

It could, but the quote says it is "amid fears of more hurricanes and higher fuel costs".

[travellady]

Honestly, I cruise 1st for the ship experience, 2nd for the weather, and 3rd for the ports. Then again, I live in Washington State with gray, overcast skies from November until March, with very little daylight in mid -winter. Escaping to the Caribbean is always a pleasure :)

 

Repeat ports don't bother me much as there's only 1 thing you can really do in port anyway due to limited time. Crusing isn't our only type of vacation so when location is important, we don't cruise but instead take a land based vacation.

 

However, we do plan around hurricane season so that does factor into my decision. And the cost of fuel seems to be impacting airline pricing more than cruise pricing. We just bought 5 airline tickets, roundtrip Seattle - Miami for Dec 17 Explorer - total $2890.00. For the 5 of us to cruise, 1 cat D1 triple and 1 double Promenade, the total was $3750.00, not a whole lot more than the airfare.

[Dockman123]

It could, but the quote says it is "amid fears of more hurricanes and higher fuel costs".

 

That is why I put "in part". Hurricanes and higher fuel costs are definately factors.

 

There are cruisers that are there for the ports more then the ship, so after being to the same port a couple times they really don't want to go again. Some cruisers couldn't care less about the ports and just want the time on ship. As a previous poster stated the market is saturated when you pull into a port and there are 6 ships or more there.

 

Since we are new to cruising all the ports are still fresh for us.:) But we really don't want to keep going to the same place. We will always be looking for itinararies (sp) that are different then where we have already been.

[Straughn]

Honestly, I cruise 1st for the ship experience, 2nd for the weather, and 3rd for the ports.

 

This is exactly why we cruise. We have our favorite classes of ships-that is the first determing factor in what cruise we pick. We select itineraries that either have several sea days and go to ports we don't mind visiting over and over. For us it is the wonderful Caribbean weather --I'll take my chances on the hurricanes:) We have little interest in seeing Europe on a cruise ship--that is simply personal preference.

 

What does concern us is when a ship the size of Freedom is in a small Caribbean port along with 4 or 5 other ships. That is just too many people and will stress the island infastructure. I think that the overcrowding of the islands is going to start to affect cruisers who feel pushed and shoved and possibly overwhelmed by the sheer numbers of people. That may become as big a factor as repeating the same islands and the hurricane concerns.

[Lynnees]

the reason given is fuel and weather and that most certainly does influence a lot of people who sail, but I have to wonder - 52% new cruisers is a high number thereby saying that only 48% were repeat cruisers at least for that line.

 

My question is - would the cruiselines even admit that people don't want to sail because of the ports? If they were to admit that they would then be forced to make huge changes to entise the cruisers back or admit they can't do anything to get them back.

 

Have they ever done a survey about that I wonder? Really inquire what the cruisers want and then listen to them.

 

Personally I will never do Mexico again, for a lot of reasons none of which I'll go into here.

 

i believe there are a lot more reasons that weather and fuel causing the caribbean area to flatline. Don't forget that along with all those ships porting there day after day the prices for everything goes up in the islands too.

 

Marilyn

[Nothin' But Sun]

Honestly, I cruise 1st for the ship experience, 2nd for the weather, and 3rd for the ports. Then again, I live in Washington State with gray, overcast skies from November until March, with very little daylight in mid -winter. Escaping to the Caribbean is always a pleasure :)

 

Repeat ports don't bother me much as there's only 1 thing you can really do in port anyway due to limited time. Crusing isn't our only type of vacation so when location is important, we don't cruise but instead take a land based vacation.

 

However, we do plan around hurricane season so that does factor into my decision. And the cost of fuel seems to be impacting airline pricing more than cruise pricing. We just bought 5 airline tickets, roundtrip Seattle - Miami for Dec 17 Explorer - total $2890.00. For the 5 of us to cruise, 1 cat D1 triple and 1 double Promenade, the total was $3750.00, not a whole lot more than the airfare.

 

 

It's all about the weather for us too. Nice getaway in the middle of winter. We can't really afford Hawaii or to fly to the Meditteranien either so for us it has to be the Caribbean which is fine for us.

[rubrrick]

The cruise ships are getting so large, that they are almost a destination themselves!!

 

Rick

[negc]

I think we, veteran cruisers, tend to underestimate the number of first time cruisers and the number of occasional cruisers to whom the many different Caribbean itineraries are attractive. I doubt that the cruiselines do, and I am sure that, since I assume they want to remain in business and be successful, they take pains to gauge just how attractive their itineraries are. Should they learn, whether from posts on boards like this, comment cards from passengers, or surveys, that there is a significant demand for new or different itineraries, they would be quick to make the necessary changes. You can see by the increased number of ships being deployed to Europe this summer, that they are aware of an upswing in demand for those cruises. However, just because some itineraries may seem old and tired to us, doesn't mean that those routes aren't very attractive to many who are new to cruising. Cruise lines, with the necessity of filling all of the new and larger ships they are building, have to grow their business while also satisfying and retaining their loyal fans. It is, I am sure, a difficult balance, but just because some of us don't favor certain routes, isn't a good enough reason for them to change their formula. In the next few years, RCI has added several new itineraries and is moving ships into new locations. I, personally, wish that they would home base one of their ships in Boston for the summer instead of just the Fall, but I defer to their judgement as to what makes the best business sense for them.:)

[kpauley]

I’d think RCL would have a positive response, thus generating more Caribbean revenue, if they had one of their ships doing a similar itinerary as the Sun Princess winter route. The ship could leave southern FL on 10 night voyages visiting islands usually stopped at on Southern Caribbean routes. This is one of the reasons we chose The Sun Princess for our next trip. Plus on our sailing, we are the only ship at all ports except one, Martinque and of course their private island. I can’t imagine being the only ship in St. Thomas. :) The extra cost of the cruise for 3 days is equal to the cost for us to fly to SanJuan. I’d much rather spend three days at sea vs. 3 extra hours flying to SJU.

[fozzyfoz]

Honestly, I cruise 1st for the ship experience, 2nd for the weather, and 3rd for the ports. Then again, I live in Washington State with gray, overcast skies from November until March, with very little daylight in mid -winter. Escaping to the Caribbean is always a pleasure :)

 

Repeat ports don't bother me much as there's only 1 thing you can really do in port anyway due to limited time. Crusing isn't our only type of vacation so when location is important, we don't cruise but instead take a land based vacation.

 

Hi neighbor (we are also in Redmond but I never changed it from Seattle when we moved). We also cruise for those reasons - we always pick different ships, then itinerary. When we go to a port we've visited before we just use that opportunity to visit a different place. There are always so many things to do and so little time.

 

We leave 1 day before you on Navigator. Looking forward to the warm temps and sun and excaping our winter gloom and doom here :D . We also end up visiting family for xmas since we're already on the east coast (makes the cross country flight easier to bear knowing we get a cruise vacation and family visiting obligations taken care of at the same time).

[lv2bcruzin]

How spoiled are ppl when cruising to the Caribbean is boring. :rolleyes:

[AFT_LOVER]

We hated Mexico, other than Cabo San Lucas. The water at Acapulco was a horrible smell. 98 degrees & I walked in the water looking at the beach to go get our snorkel gear & we are attack by some guy waiting $10 per person to be in the water. For that smell, they should pay us to walk in it. My paseo smelled so bad I was embarrassed in the stairwell walking up to 9. In the shower we went & clothes were washed out in Tide in the sink.

 

 

the reason given is fuel and weather and that most certainly does influence a lot of people who sail, but I have to wonder - 52% new cruisers is a high number thereby saying that only 48% were repeat cruisers at least for that line.

 

My question is - would the cruiselines even admit that people don't want to sail because of the ports? If they were to admit that they would then be forced to make huge changes to entise the cruisers back or admit they can't do anything to get them back.

 

Have they ever done a survey about that I wonder? Really inquire what the cruisers want and then listen to them.

 

Personally I will never do Mexico again, for a lot of reasons none of which I'll go into here.

 

i believe there are a lot more reasons that weather and fuel causing the caribbean area to flatline. Don't forget that along with all those ships porting there day after day the prices for everything goes up in the islands too.

 

Marilyn

[tngirl1979]

We have tried to choose different ports to go to but sometimes you have to overlap. This allows us to do

one: stay on ship

or

two: visit places we have not gone yet on the island

 

I think that repeating a time or two is not totally bad. How many have gone to Disney every year because it is fun? This is the same thing.

[Joe1690]

Living in the philly area, I can say that I am getting bored of the same old cruise itineraries to the carribbean. This is what made us think long and hard about whether we wanted to do an all inclusive in Punta Cana (never been there) instead of our upcoming cruise in the grandeur. After all, we have already been on the ship 2 times and my upcoming 3 cruises on her in the next month were enough to make me consider whether it was worthwhile. Afterall, the Grandeur's itinerary quite frankly stinks on the 9 night cruise. I would much prefer to go on the explorer but when the price is about 3 to 4 X more I am not willing to pay that. I think there are 2 problems with the Carribbean 1) the ships and 2) the itineraries. Many of the ships go to the same ports (San Juan, St. Thomas, St. Maarten, Cozumel, Costa Maya, Grand Cayman and Ochos Rios). While I love some of these ports, the eastern in particular the western ports are not that great imho. Also, the cruiselines base the same ships out of the same port for years on end. I mean honestly how many times does a cruiser want to go on the same ship to the same ports. I know I prefer not to. I think that is one of the reasons that the Grandeur this year has ridiculously low prices. It is a decent ship but many have sailed her from baltimore for the last 2 years on almost the exact same itinerary. To me, the southern carribbean and Panama Canal cruises are my 2 favorite itineraries. Unfortunately, if you want to do the Southern Carribbean for about the last 4 years you have had the same choice of ships, Adventure, Serenade, and Carnival Destiny. Part of the fun is experiencing a new ship even if it is in the same class. I agree that we will see cruiselines increase their capacity in Europe, Asia, Australia and other more exotic destinations. I also believe that the cruiselines do poll customers as to where they want to go. I know Princess and RCCL do. Both of them have in their past guest program information on the locations you are interested in. I believe this is why we are starting to see ships offer more itineraries. The problem is that cruiselines go with the tried and true method first and then slowly branch out with new destinations. In my opinion Princess offers the best itineraries because they pretty much have the world covered. I would love to see RCCL add more panama canal itineraries and institute a fleet rotation program where a ship only sails from the same port for 3 or 4 years at a time. This would let customers experience many different ships over the course of time without necessarily changing their embarkation point. Also, I would imagine the crew on the ships would be happier as well since whenever I talk to crew their biggest complaint is that they have to sail the same itinerary week in and week out for the whole contract and sometimes 2 or 3 contracts. Unfortunately, as others have mentioned the percentage of people who have cruised is far smaller then the percentage who have not and thus many passengers on any given cruise are probably new cruisers. Therefore, the traditional itineraries will still be around on a signficant number of ships for years to come.