Will someone tell TA to quit saying HAL is for the old

[airlink diva]

I'm just really getting a chance to view this thread (I have my 1 year old nephew for a week and he's taking a nap).

I guess that both I and my friend Drew have luck out on our cruises with HAL. There were a nice mixture of ages, fun in the bars and a few nights in the dance lounge.

My friends that are going on the Westerdam later this year, all stated they wanted a cruse that was fun without hairy chest or belly flops or any major gimmicks. One of my friends stated that she was in port one time with a HAL ship and stated that out of all the ships, that it looked like a classic cruise ship.

I know these girls, they are going to hang out in the piano bar, hit the dance lounge a few nights, but mostly they want to just chill and relax. Esp on sea days with a girls spa day and walking the deck in the morning and then finding a nook where they can gab.

I don't know if they asked the TA if she sailed on HAL. I do know that one of them stated that the 7 day cruises on the ones that the TA was pushing were slightly cheaper,but they wanted something different.

I also really hope that they enjoy the cruise, esp with two of my friends are on my class reunion committe and one of the most requested intrest is a class cruise. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for this.

[bpjazzer]

I'm not saying that I have any problems being on a boat with older passengers. It was just an observation of mine that 99% of the passengers had to be senior citizens. I bet most of them partied harder than I did too. I went on a lot of early morning excursions so often went to bed early. I also have no problems with music from the big bands or any other music. I teach and perform music and have a love for most of it (except rap and country). But with all of that in mind, in my opinion Holland America isn't a better cruise line than other ships I've been on. I don't understand why everyone says Holland boats are elegant. I found the decor to be kind of guady. I've been on 2 Royal Caribbean ships and Norwegian once. Those ships were much larger, had better food and had more attractive decor. Also on those other lines you never see the crew eating in the same place as the passengers or see the casino staff eating and smoking by the pool. Just my observations and my opinions. All of us have them.

[newmexicoNita]

I'm not saying that I have any problems being on a boat with older passengers. It was just an observation of mine that 99% of the passengers had to be senior citizens. I bet most of them partied harder than I did too. I went on a lot of early morning excursions so often went to bed early. I also have no problems with music from the big bands or any other music. I teach and perform music and have a love for most of it (except rap and country). But with all of that in mind, in my opinion Holland America isn't a better cruise line than other ships I've been on. I don't understand why everyone says Holland boats are elegant. I found the decor to be kind of guady. I've been on 2 Royal Caribbean ships and Norwegian once. Those ships were much larger, had better food and had more attractive decor. Also on those other lines you never see the crew eating in the same place as the passengers or see the casino staff eating and smoking by the pool. Just my observations and my opinions. All of us have them.

much of what you say may be true and much is your opinion; I don't think 99% were seniors; a large number, probably over 50% but I would doubt 99%. As for elegant, that is a matter of opinion. I haven't been on HAL for over 20 years so Our Nov sailing will be almost like a first, I do have clients (many in their 30 and 40s that, though admit the crowd is older, but say the ships are the most elegant and the food the best at sea. again this is opinion. Perhaps the smaller ships are for you as you make the comment about size. BTW, I am not a big HAL fan, how can I be without cruising them, and I am a strong NCL loyalist, but I do think you are selling HAL a little short. NMNita

[RevNeal]

I'm not saying that I have any problems being on a boat with older passengers. It was just an observation of mine that 99% of the passengers had to be senior citizens. I bet most of them partied harder than I did too. I went on a lot of early morning excursions so often went to bed early. I also have no problems with music from the big bands or any other music. I teach and perform music and have a love for most of it (except rap and country). But with all of that in mind, in my opinion Holland America isn't a better cruise line than other ships I've been on. I don't understand why everyone says Holland boats are elegant. I found the decor to be kind of guady. I've been on 2 Royal Caribbean ships and Norwegian once. Those ships were much larger, had better food and had more attractive decor. Also on those other lines you never see the crew eating in the same place as the passengers or see the casino staff eating and smoking by the pool. Just my observations and my opinions. All of us have them.

 

Thank you for your input, bpjazzer. Just a few remarks, if I may.

 

Firstly, one must be careful about drawing conclusions about an entire Cruise Line, every ship, every itinerary, and all those who cruise on the line, based upon one sampling of it. Anecdotal experience IS experience, but it is limited and provincial at best.

 

Secondly, bigger ships are not necessary "better" ships; indeed, many prefer Holland America precisely because they are not bigger.

 

Thirdly, food is highly subjective. What one person really likes, another find repulsive. Some will like the smaller portions in the multi-course meals, while others laugh and laugh and laugh at the tiny size of the portions. I, for one, appreciate the smaller portions.

 

Fourthly, it is often the interaction with the crew that many HAL regulars enjoy, and that interaction can often occur at lunch and late-night snacks, when there is chance of intermingling during meals. Your observation of crew eating WITH the passengers was relative to the ship's European, Canadian, and American crew: The cruise and entertainment staff, the ship's stores staff, and the ship's officers ... correct? That is simply how HAL does things. I know that some people don't like "eating with the help," but it's what HAL does.

 

Fifthly, and to amplify one response you've already received: on your cruise you may have had a high percentage of older people, however I sincerely doubt that 99% of the passengers were retired. 70% ... MAYBE. However, just because such was your observation on your cruise doesn't mean that such is the case on all of HAL's ships. As I said in point one: your experience is your experience, however it is anecdotal; don't assume that it was a representative sample. After 10 cruises aboard multiple ships on multiple itineraries, one might be able to claim cross-sectional sampling, but even then such experience is limited. This goes for me, for you, and for everybody -- what's 10, or even 20, cruises out of the HUNDREDS of sorties that the Line runs every year?

[bpjazzer]

I don't understand why everytime I state my opinion on here I get crapped on. Its my opinion. I don't agree with most of the people's opinion on here but i don't attack anyone for it. I just stated my observations and since I was on that boat and none of you were - I can state in my opinion that a large majority of the passengers were senior citizens.

 

And I don't think that half of the buffet should be closed off for the crew to eat. And I shouldn't have to breath in the 2nd hand smoke from the casino staff everytime I went out to the pool area.

 

I feel Royal Caribbean is a better cruise line. That's my opinion. Most of you on here like Holland. I respect your opinion. I'm not going to change your minds and you're not going to change mine.

 

I can understand why some never post on here again.

[DougandEric]

I don't understand why everytime I state my opinion on here I get crapped on. Its my opinion. I don't agree with most of the people's opinion on here but i don't attack anyone for it. I just stated my observations and since I was on that boat and none of you were - I can state in my opinion that a large majority of the passengers were senior citizens.

 

And I don't think that half of the buffet should be closed off for the crew to eat. And I shouldn't have to breath in the 2nd hand smoke from the casino staff everytime I went out to the pool area.

 

I feel Royal Caribbean is a better cruise line. That's my opinion. Most of you on here like Holland. I respect your opinion. I'm not going to change your minds and you're not going to change mine.

 

I can understand why some never post on here again.

Perhaps the problem with getting 'crapped on' is due to the tone of your post. If you simply said that you thought the average age of the passengers was much older than you would have hoped for, instead of saying "floating nursing home", people wouldn't 'crap on' you.

[bpjazzer]

Perhaps the problem with getting 'crapped on' is due to the tone of your post. If you simply said that you thought the average age of the passengers was much older than you would have hoped for, instead of saying "floating nursing home", people wouldn't 'crap on' you.

 

 

Actually I borrowed the term "nursing home" from an earlier post. I apologize if I offended anyone. I have read far more disturbing posts on here, but I never see anyone attack them. Like I said just my opinion.

[wwaggone]

We sailed on a 10 day on Ryndam and since we were some of the youngest people onboard (late thirties/early forties), we had almost a celebrity recognition:rolleyes:. Actually pretty fun.:) All the food and service was absolutely wonderful, but the sea days did go by slowly without the normal pool activities and partying. Definately a different cruise experience than on RCI and others, but still enjoyable. We also did the alternative dining, wine tasting, and met some friends that we plan on traveling with in the future. You can have fun on any cruise, just depends what you want to do on the ship. Each cruise line caters to a slightly different customer. We enjoy RCI and Celebrity the best as Carnival is a little too Wal-Mart for us.

[obriendan]

Here! Here! Well stated, RevNeal! I thoroughly agree that anecdotal observation and opinion are indeed not fact.

[RevNeal]

bpjazzer,

 

I'm sorry if you feel that you're being crapped on. For my part, I was trying to be very careful about NOT crapping on you. I was simply offering some observations relative to your statements ... observations which, in all honesty, seemed very reasonable to me.

 

Your experience and your opinion is your experience and your opinion ... and that's fine, well, and good. However, several aspects of the conclusions you drew from your experience and your opinion leave something to be desired. For instance, you extrapolated from your experience aboard a single HAL ship, for a single cruise, that: "Holland boats are just floating nursing homes." This statement was inflammatory to say the least, but you were not flamed in response. Rather your conclusion was challenged and the validity of your observation was questioned, but that's all.

 

I'm sorry you're upset about it.

[C 2 C]

Muster Drill: guess how many younguns on this cruise:

[bpjazzer]

bpjazzer,

 

I'm sorry if you feel that you're being crapped on. For my part, I was trying to be very careful about NOT crapping on you. I was simply offering some observations relative to your statements ... observations which, in all honesty, seemed very reasonable to me.

 

Your experience and your opinion is your experience and your opinion ... and that's fine, well, and good. However, several aspects of the conclusions you drew from your experience and your opinion leave something to be desired. For instance, you extrapolated from your experience aboard a single HAL ship, for a single cruise, that: "Holland boats are just floating nursing homes." This statement was inflammatory to say the least, but you were not flamed in response. Rather your conclusion was challenged and the validity of your observation was questioned, but that's all.

 

I'm sorry you're upset about it.

 

Thats funny. I've read other posts on here of people that said they tried Carnival or whatever line once and will never go back and stay with only Holland. That seems to be ok, but when someone decides that Holland isn't the line for them then they must be wrong. I'm finding out very quickly on this message board that my opinion means nothing and everyone else is right.

[bdcbbq]

Thats funny. I've read other posts on here of people that said they tried Carnival or whatever line once and will never go back and stay with only Holland. That seems to be ok, but when someone decides that Holland isn't the line for them then they must be wrong. I'm finding out very quickly on this message board that my opinion means nothing and everyone else is right.

 

 

I find it ironic that someone who doesn't like the HAL experience would continue to read and post on a HAL board. I have no interest in Carnival, Disney, etc. and don't read the boards. That solves my social problem on CC.

[DD]

A TA's job is to give information, not opinion. The owner of the first agency at which I worked would make blanket statements such as the OP's friends heard. Need I mention that he is no longer in business? Yes, people should know what they are getting into and the agent should discuss the general demographics of each cruise line considered, but to assume that the client doesn't know what he or she wants and that the agent knows better is just not good business. We are there to guide and to be of assistance in any way we can, that is our primary job.

 

Susan

 

As a TA, I am repeatedly asked what my opinion is and my clients expect me to have opinions to offer. That doesn't mean that MY opinion is the right one. However, to say a TA's job is not to offer opinions is not true. I try to remember that what I like/want/need is not important -- what the client wants/likes/needs is what is important. At the same time, every single day I have clients ask, "What's your opinion, what do you think, you're the professional."

[newmexicoNita]

As a TA, I am repeatedly asked what my opinion is and my clients expect me to have opinions to offer. That doesn't mean that MY opinion is the right one. However, to say a TA's job is not to offer opinions is not true. I try to remember that what I like/want/need is not important -- what the client wants/likes/needs is what is important. At the same time, every single day I have clients ask, "What's your opinion, what do you think, you're the professional."

I agree with Susan and I think you misunderstood what she was saying. Sure, as agents we can give our opinions if asked, but to make blanket statements is totally wrong especially if we haven't cruised a particular line in awhile or visited a resort. Of course we all have to depend on our clients to give us feedback from time to time. If I have a client trying to decide between 2 lines and I have asked them what they like or expect I will tell them what I think but to blanketly advise against a line because I don't think they fit a profile isn't my place. NMnita

[Cruiseoften]

As a TA, I am repeatedly asked what my opinion is and my clients expect me to have opinions to offer. That doesn't mean that MY opinion is the right one. However, to say a TA's job is not to offer opinions is not true. I try to remember that what I like/want/need is not important -- what the client wants/likes/needs is what is important. At the same time, every single day I have clients ask, "What's your opinion, what do you think, you're the professional."

 

And the answer might best be "Well, tell me what you most enjoyed about your other vacations and I'll suggest the cruise lines I believe to be best suited to your requirements." As a professional you can do that.

 

It's like buying a house: the prospective buyers have looked at and narrowed their search down to 3 houses - all in their price range. Their choice has to be based on just how many 'must have/be' items on their list each house fulfills.......only they can make that decision.

 

Your 'must have/be' list is not likely to be exactly like theirs.

[airlink diva]

Thats funny. I've read other posts on here of people that said they tried Carnival or whatever line once and will never go back and stay with only Holland. That seems to be ok, but when someone decides that Holland isn't the line for them then they must be wrong. I'm finding out very quickly on this message board that my opinion means nothing and everyone else is right.

I know that with so many cruiselines out there, that each one of them have people very loyal to them. If you go on the ther boards, you have people who stay the same about Costa,Carnival,RCCL,etc.

Frankly I just sailed on Carnival this year and I enjoyed myself. I just perfer HAL overall. There are minor things on both lines (and the other line that I sailed on that I didn't like, but on each trip, I got my money worth.

Your opinion is very important because we all need to hear every side. :) :)

Take it from a girl who sailing on both Carnival and HAL next year!!

[RevNeal]

Thats funny. I've read other posts on here of people that said they tried Carnival or whatever line once and will never go back and stay with only Holland. That seems to be ok, but when someone decides that Holland isn't the line for them then they must be wrong. I'm finding out very quickly on this message board that my opinion means nothing and everyone else is right.

 

Quite the contrary ... your opinions are valued. So are your observations and experiences. I always enjoy reading what other people experience -- good and bad. When bad is reported, I like to find out why such things happened, etc., and what was done to correct the error(s). My only objection was to your extrapolated conclusion, which you drew from your experience and applied to the whole Line, and the pejorative terminology which you used in articulating your conclusion. Let's be blunt: there IS a difference between your observations, experiences, and opinion -- on the one hand -- and facts on the other. It is NOT a fact that 99% of HAL passengers are senior citizens. Period.

 

I have no problem with people deciding they don't like HAL ... for whatever reason ... and I can certainly agree that it's not for everybody. If that's your opinion, fine and dandy. I also do not deny that the average age of passengers on HAL ships is greater than the average age of passengers on many other Lines. HAL tends to appeal to an older, quieter, more sedate demographic ... and to those who like that type of environment, even if they, themselves, are not part of that demographic slice. I don't think anybody here denies that. I have been on HAL cruises where I was among the youngest aboard ship, and with the average age being 56 it is beyond doubt that there are going to be a huge number of senior citizens aboard to off-set those of us in our 40s and younger. Heck, I cruise HAL, in large part, because I know that I won't be bothered by a large swarm of brats ... most of the people I meet aboard ship are older than I am by many many years ... to even as many as 5 decades.

 

But, for you to hyperbolically assert that 99% of the people on "Holland boats" (note: plural) are retired senior citizens, and that these "boats" are "just floating nursing homes," is simply NOT true as a matter of FACT. Not opinion ... FACT. One may live in a fantasy world of their own opinion all they like, but the facts are the FACTS are the FACTS. Your observations aboard the Amsterdam MAY have been true and, on a ship with 1400 passengers there may well have been only 14 passengers under the age of 70 (or thereabouts). I seriously DOUBT that such was the case, but let's just say that such was true and 99% of the passengers WERE seniors over the age of 70. EVEN IF TRUE ... what you extrapolated from that experience is still not justified. If you think I'm crapping on you ... I'm sorry. Here's some toilet paper:

 

 

Now ...

If I were to have a bad experience on another line, I would be very hesitant about cruising on that other line. Thankfully, such has never been an issue for me ... I've never had a "bad" cruise. Nevertheless, I can understand that some people will take a cruise on HAL, not like it, and prefer not to come back. I have NO problem with that. I wish such people well on whatever cruise line they prefer. And I wish YOU well on your future cruises, on whatever line they may be. And, if you ever decide to try HAL again, I hope you have a better experience.

 

Now ... pardon me while I maneuver my wheel chair out of the Explorer's Lounge. I need to go change my Depends and I want to get my walker for the races up on the Lower Promenade deck. ;)

[RevNeal]

Muster Drill: guess how many younguns on this cruise:

 

LOL ... pan the camera a little to the right and capture some of the Club HAL kids. :)

Your picture makes our point ... it's too narrowly focused.

Granted, a large number of people will look like that selection in the photograph ... but you can't prove anything by the absence of young people in such a selective photograph. :) That's called an "argument from silence" ... a logical fallacy.

[C 2 C]

That's called an "argument from silence" ... a logical fallacy.

There is no logic to your fallacy. That picture was representative of the whole cruise; Jan 2005, the NLV cruise out of Tampa. To the right of this picture was the doorway. Why should I take a picture of a group at muster drill that was not the norm on that cruise... perhaps all the young passengers were on the other side. The fallacy is in implying that all pictures have the intention to mislead because they are neither total nor continuous.:cool:

[bpjazzer]

Quite the contrary ... your opinions are valued. So are your observations and experiences. I always enjoy reading what other people experience -- good and bad. When bad is reported, I like to find out why such things happened, etc., and what was done to correct the error(s). My only objection was to your extrapolated conclusion, which you drew from your experience and applied to the whole Line, and the pejorative terminology which you used in articulating your conclusion. Let's be blunt: there IS a difference between your observations, experiences, and opinion -- on the one hand -- and facts on the other. It is NOT a fact that 99% of HAL passengers are senior citizens. Period.

 

I have no problem with people deciding they don't like HAL ... for whatever reason ... and I can certainly agree that it's not for everybody. If that's your opinion, fine and dandy. I also do not deny that the average age of passengers on HAL ships is greater than the average age of passengers on many other Lines. HAL tends to appeal to an older, quieter, more sedate demographic ... and to those who like that type of environment, even if they, themselves, are not part of that demographic slice. I don't think anybody here denies that. I have been on HAL cruises where I was among the youngest aboard ship, and with the average age being 56 it is beyond doubt that there are going to be a huge number of senior citizens aboard to off-set those of us in our 40s and younger. Heck, I cruise HAL, in large part, because I know that I won't be bothered by a large swarm of brats ... most of the people I meet aboard ship are older than I am by many many years ... to even as many as 5 decades.

 

But, for you to hyperbolically assert that 99% of the people on "Holland boats" (note: plural) are retired senior citizens, and that these "boats" are "just floating nursing homes," is simply NOT true as a matter of FACT. Not opinion ... FACT. One may live in a fantasy world of their own opinion all they like, but the facts are the FACTS are the FACTS. Your observations aboard the Amsterdam MAY have been true and, on a ship with 1400 passengers there may well have been only 14 passengers under the age of 70 (or thereabouts). I seriously DOUBT that such was the case, but let's just say that such was true and 99% of the passengers WERE seniors over the age of 70. EVEN IF TRUE ... what you extrapolated from that experience is still not justified. If you think I'm crapping on you ... I'm sorry. Here's some toilet paper:

 

 

Now ...

If I were to have a bad experience on another line, I would be very hesitant about cruising on that other line. Thankfully, such has never been an issue for me ... I've never had a "bad" cruise. Nevertheless, I can understand that some people will take a cruise on HAL, not like it, and prefer not to come back. I have NO problem with that. I wish such people well on whatever cruise line they prefer. And I wish YOU well on your future cruises, on whatever line they may be. And, if you ever decide to try HAL again, I hope you have a better experience.

 

Now ... pardon me while I maneuver my wheel chair out of the Explorer's Lounge. I need to go change my Depends and I want to get my walker for the races up on the Lower Promenade deck. ;)

 

 

 

Again, you weren't on that particular cruise. I believe my observations were right on and fact. How you be so arrogant to tell me that me that I am wrong. I can't believe a person of your occupation would treat people like that.

 

I never said it was a bad cruise and being on a boat of older passengers wasn't the problem. Just stating a fact that it definitely was an older crowd on this particular cruise and that I don't feel that the Holland Cruise line is necessarily better than other cruise lines that I have been on.

 

I do take offense to your remark about not being on a boat "bothered by a large swarm of brats". I teach and love kids. They are not brats - they are full of energy. Its no different being on a ship full of kids running up and down on the elevators or being on the Amsterdam trying to go somewhere on the elevator that is full and the door keeps opening because some older passenger keeps pushing the button. This happened to me several times. Which passenger (the child or the adult) should have more common sense?

 

I'm done here defending myself. I'm just going to end this by saying that I am deeply disturbed by many of your comments and how you treat others on here. I'm glad I have a pastor that is more tolerant of other's opinions.

[C 2 C]

Again, you weren't on that particular cruise. I believe my observations were right on and fact. How you be so arrogant to tell me that me that I am wrong. I can't believe a person of your occupation would treat people like that. I'm just going to end this by saying that I am deeply disturbed by many of your comments and how you treat others on here. I'm glad I have a pastor that is more tolerant of other's opinions.

 

That's two of us now:mad:

[michmike]

Who needs the frenetic pace that some of those who enjoy Carnival or RCCL seem to enjoy? In addition, if the demographic skews younger than that means more kids. The idea of sharing my vacation on a ship with 200-300 little darlins is something out of a horror movie.

 

Keep your rock climbing walls, miniature golf courses, surfing simulators and boxing rings. Give me the larger staterooms, wonderfully comfortable beds, attentive staff, decent (albeit not gourmet) food and all sorts of nooks and crannies to relax with a good book. In return, I'll deal with Glenn Miller and the Dorseys (just keep Lawrence Welk at bay) and the clueless grandmas on the scooters who think the world ought to clear a path.

 

Then again, I use a cane due to bad knees and am old enough to have attempted to compromise the virtue of more than one young lady to the strains of Bobbie Rydell and Johhny Tillotson *L*

 

I WILL tell you that the most memorable couple we've met on 5 HAL cruises were table mates on our 2nd HAL, who were 91 and 90 and sharp as a tack and knew everyone on the ship by the end of the week. Age really is a state of mind.. we have friends who are in their early 40s and are fuddy duds (does anyone actually USE that term anymore) and others in their 80s who can keep going long after we're ready to call it a night.

 

Only basis for comparison we have was our very first cruise, on Celebrity, but we've found a niche that suits us just fine and are coming back for #6 on HAL in October (the hurricane gods willing).

 

The other thing I do want to say about those in scooters, wheel chairs, walkers, etc is GOOD FOR YOU!! I think it's great that you're still willing to deal with the challenges that traveling with those limitations present and aren't sitting home feeling sorry for yourself.

 

I'd rather see prunes on the lido bfast line that fruit loops any day of the week *wink*

 

My special advice to parents ... a cruise is a good opportunity to leave Tommy and Sally home to get better acquainted with their grand parents. (preparing for the incoming shells. *S*)

[newmexicoNita]

And the answer might best be "Well, tell me what you most enjoyed about your other vacations and I'll suggest the cruise lines I believe to be best suited to your requirements." As a professional you can do that.

 

It's like buying a house: the prospective buyers have looked at and narrowed their search down to 3 houses - all in their price range. Their choice has to be based on just how many 'must have/be' items on their list each house fulfills.......only they can make that decision.

 

Your 'must have/be' list is not likely to be exactly like theirs.

You got it right down. Ask the right questions and we won't have to give opinions, biased or otherwise. NMNIta

[newmexicoNita]

I don't understand why everytime I state my opinion on here I get crapped on. Its my opinion. I don't agree with most of the people's opinion on here but i don't attack anyone for it. I just stated my observations and since I was on that boat and none of you were - I can state in my opinion that a large majority of the passengers were senior citizens.

 

And I don't think that half of the buffet should be closed off for the crew to eat. And I shouldn't have to breath in the 2nd hand smoke from the casino staff everytime I went out to the pool area.

 

I feel Royal Caribbean is a better cruise line. That's my opinion. Most of you on here like Holland. I respect your opinion. I'm not going to change your minds and you're not going to change mine.

 

I can understand why some never post on here again.

I am sure you have heard the phrase "it isn't what you say, but how you say it" maybe that is where your problem lies. Of course there are several lines and each has a nitch. Obviously HAL isn't yours, but the way you came on here would put anyone on the defensive: 99% seniors, the nursing home comments, then attacking the crew etc. A simple, "for me, there are better lines because I enjoy being active" probably would have gotten the point across quite nicely. NMNita