Bumped!

[BumperII]

Well, as the thread developed and more information came on line, the picture of this story certainly came into a different focus. While I really feel sorry for the folks it happened to, I am grateful to qe2 for sharing the experience.

 

We plan to do a lot of cruising, but since we are independently poor, we always book the cheap seats, guarentees. I had no idea one could get "bumped" but it stands to reason that the person who paid the least is the one they would let go first.

 

Anyway, thanks to qe2 and all who posted on this thread. A lot of valuable information came out here for those of us not in the business.

[RuthC]

Ruth, what the OP is saying is almostly the same stunt that Oceania pulled about a month or so ago on two fellow cc'ers.

Apparently, not quite. I'm just now getting back to the thread and a lot has developed. The OP purchased under very different rules than the rest of us do---rules that allow for this very event.

Now she's mad and doesn't want the rules to apply to her and comes on here trying to get cruisers in an uproar.

That's not fair to those of us who read the original post with an open mind.

And it's especially not fair to her clients who will be steered away from HAL for an unhappy event she agreed to in the first place. :rolleyes:

Thank you, ocngypz, for a succinct, clear explanation.

[Scrumpy]

At this point, it doesn't matter to me whether it is a TA rate or not. Bumping someone so very, very late in the game is simply not acceptable. They received virtually no notice - 72 or so hours is not much better than being bumped right at the dock. This is extremely disappointing, no matter how you slice it.

[newmexicoNita]

Well, as the thread developed and more information came on line, the picture of this story certainly came into a different focus. While I really feel sorry for the folks it happened to, I am grateful to qe2 for sharing the experience.

 

We plan to do a lot of cruising, but since we are independently poor, we always book the cheap seats, guarentees. I had no idea one could get "bumped" but it stands to reason that the person who paid the least is the one they would let go first.

 

Anyway, thanks to qe2 and all who posted on this thread. A lot of valuable information came out here for those of us not in the business.

you don't get bumped because you buy cheap seats or cheap cabins: you get bumped when you are on an industry type rate, that is very different. Don't worry, it will probably never happen to you. NMNita

[hammybee]

This entire posting is beyond silly. The OP paid a fraction of what might normally be paid for a cruise on a premium HAL ship, intinerary during prime time. The more seasoned TA's on this board seem to know the odds of boarding and get it. HAL is a business and they need to sell cabins to stay in business. If the ship is not at full capasity, it makes business sense for them to sell cabins at reduced rates to TAs just as it makes sense for them to pull such cabins when they can sell it at market price. This is similar to tenured airline employees who fly free and do so knowing they are the first to be bumped, should the need arise and they do not get any special compensation.

 

The OP is miserable ( for not beating the odds) and we all know, misery loves company.

[BumperII]

you don't get bumped because you buy cheap seats or cheap cabins: you get bumped when you are on an industry type rate, that is very different. Don't worry, it will probably never happen to you. NMNita

 

Well, that certainly has been our experience so far. The only bumping we've ever experienced is when they bumped us up a couple of categories. We have been delighted with the accomodations and service on every cruise. In fact, we've never taken a cruise where we didn't have a fantastic time.:)

 

We have waited for a life time to do this in retirement. I really like taking cruise vacations from retirement. :D

[qe2]

I need to clear up something. I am a full time agent. I have booked world cruises with Holland America and also have a designation as a specialist with them. The TA rates , although lower,are no way bargain basement fares that everyone imagines. In this case, the rate offered to the public was not much more than what I was paying.

i suspect that someone in revenue gets Kudos for having a fuly booked ship.They offer TA rates to assure that that will happen. Then if they get lucky and book the ship, they bump the TA's because they don't feel obligated to offer anything but a refund.

What will come back to bite them is that I no longer feel comfortable booking Holland America. I have several clients due for final payment and I will complete their bookings but sell Holland America... probably not. I need to have confidence that my clients will be taken care of.

BTW I booked a river cruise on the River Royal with Uniworld in place of my Holland America cruise. I'm leaving Monday.

[ocngypz]

I need to clear up something. I am a full time agent. I have booked world cruises with Holland America and also have a designation as a specialist with them. The TA rates , although lower,are no way bargain basement fares that everyone imagines. In this case, the rate offered to the public was not much more than what I was paying.

i suspect that someone in revenue gets Kudos for having a fuly booked ship.They offer TA rates to assure that that will happen. Then if they get lucky and book the ship, they bump the TA's because they don't feel obligated to offer anything but a refund.

What will come back to bite them is that I no longer feel comfortable booking Holland America. I have several clients due for final payment and I will complete their bookings but sell Holland America... probably not. I need to have confidence that my clients will be taken care of.

BTW I booked a river cruise on the River Royal with Uniworld in place of my Holland America cruise. I'm leaving Monday.

 

 

You are a full time agent and didn't know about HAL's policy on ta rates??? And you don't know how cruiselines handle overbooking situations??

 

And you booked Uniworld? Good luck. That's one line I do not book clients on!

Amadeus, yes. Viking, yes. Uniworld, no!

[twoatsea]

GE, I'm so glad you "saved" your travels! :) I bet the last couple of days have been horrible for you. Hope you have fun on your cruise. :D

 

I'm sure that right now you are upset with HAL; I would be. But hopefully, as you relax on your cruise, you will rethink what you said in your last post. I'm not saying it never happens, but I've never seen on this board or heard from anyone that HAL bumps non-TA passengers as you were bumped. And as reported on this thread, TA's accept their reservations knowing the possible consequences. Therefore, to not book your clients on HAL would be a disservice to them, and I am sure that you are a better TA than that.

 

Have fun, breathe deeply, try real hard to put this behind you, totally enjoy your trip, and maybe reconsider taking TA reservations unless you don't mind the possible canceling - hate for you to go thru this again! :(

[qe2]

I have booked TA rates with other lines even in prime time and have not been canceled. This is not the common occurance that has been represented. Sure, I can contact my rep. I'm sure that she would do something for me as a top agent with a big agency but since I was not notified until 5pm on Fri and my flights are on Monday morning, how can I contact her and what can she do at this late date?

If this had happened even a week ago, I would not be so outraged, but the problem is that Holland America waited until the very last minute to call me and then were rude to boot.

I have salvaged trips at the last minute for clients and have done so for myself. No, I am not flying free... no TA's fly free. I am flying on miles which I accumulated by charging groceries etc to my card. I had to pay $65 pp to change my flights, pluus 2 hrs on the phone but I am looking forward to a great vacation on my riverboat.

[Aussie Gal]

I booked this cruise in June at a travel agent rate ( not gratis) for the Noordam sailing August 9 from Rome. I had to submit a written application and wait 24 hours for my application to be accepted. I received a confirmation with in cat M with no cabin asignment.

I received my documents about 3 weeks ago. I went online and did my pre-cruise form and at that time, I had a cabin assignment.

At 5pm on Aug 4, I received a call from Holland America saying that the ship was overbooked and I had a choice of cancelling and getting a refund or sailing on September 18 at the same rate.

I could not re- schedule my airline tickets so I had to cancel. After I cancelled, I was told by the reservation agent that I was in full penalty, as if I had CHOSEN to cancel. After 15 minutes on hold , they finally told me that my money would be refunded in about 3 weeks.

I contaced my travel insurance company and they said that I can file a claim for my losses ( train tickets, airline penalties ) but they didn't think that it would be paid .

That's the whole story. This would not be such a problem except that they didn't notify me until 5pm Friday and I am scheduled to fly out on Monday morning. It doesn't leave much time for plan B. This can't be something that "just came up." They must have known when they accepted my reservation and charged my card that the ship was overbooked. They told me that they were canceling 10 reservations.

At this point, I hope to reschedule something this weekend so that I can leave on Monday. My husband has lost his enthusiasm .

 

I have been following this thread since the beginning and have been adding my various thoughts to the cancellation.

 

I have just come back to the Board after a couple of hours absence and am now confused because in this posting by the OP, she refers to cancelling her plane tickets but in her lastest post a short while ago, she reports that she is flying out on Monday to board a Uniworld cruise.

 

We have been given so many conflicting statements that I am finding it hard to come to terms with the whole episode.

 

Jennie

[newmexicoNita]

I need to clear up something. I am a full time agent. I have booked world cruises with Holland America and also have a designation as a specialist with them. The TA rates , although lower,are no way bargain basement fares that everyone imagines. In this case, the rate offered to the public was not much more than what I was paying.

i suspect that someone in revenue gets Kudos for having a fuly booked ship.They offer TA rates to assure that that will happen. Then if they get lucky and book the ship, they bump the TA's because they don't feel obligated to offer anything but a refund.

What will come back to bite them is that I no longer feel comfortable booking Holland America. I have several clients due for final payment and I will complete their bookings but sell Holland America... probably not. I need to have confidence that my clients will be taken care of.

BTW I booked a river cruise on the River Royal with Uniworld in place of my Holland America cruise. I'm leaving Monday.

Gald you found something; I have many clients that love the river cruises: we have never taken one.; I don't want to knock your being a a HAL specialist, but I just qualified also as well as on most cruise lines. You know and so do the rest of us agents, this is simply reading a book and taking a short test. It has nothing to do with how much we book them. If you are a full time agent, working for a major TA company what did your manager say about this? AS for us not getting bargain basement rates, that is why I as well as many other agents do not book them. We know we could get bumped and the rates are not all that much lower, though they are in some cases. AS for not selling them, that I understand as you should have been notified a long time ago. As for getting bumped, that is the price we pay for the price we get. NMNita

[newmexicoNita]

You are a full time agent and didn't know about HAL's policy on ta rates??? And you don't know how cruiselines handle overbooking situations??

 

And you booked Uniworld? Good luck. That's one line I do not book clients on!

Amadeus, yes. Viking, yes. Uniworld, no!

Actually I have had many client who loved Uniworld; more for the intineraries than anything else. As for being a full time agent, I too am wondering what is the whole story about her employment. I am not calling her a liar, but still think there is something missing here.NMNita

[newmexicoNita]

I have booked TA rates with other lines even in prime time and have not been canceled. This is not the common occurance that has been represented. Sure, I can contact my rep. I'm sure that she would do something for me as a top agent with a big agency but since I was not notified until 5pm on Fri and my flights are on Monday morning, how can I contact her and what can she do at this late date?

If this had happened even a week ago, I would not be so outraged, but the problem is that Holland America waited until the very last minute to call me and then were rude to boot.

I have salvaged trips at the last minute for clients and have done so for myself. No, I am not flying free... no TA's fly free. I am flying on miles which I accumulated by charging groceries etc to my card. I had to pay $65 pp to change my flights, pluus 2 hrs on the phone but I am looking forward to a great vacation on my riverboat.

You are a top agent, with a major company and you never fly free. When I worked for a independant company in the Dallas area we got a couple of passe on major airline yearly and they were not even stand by. There is something here that just doesn't jell, but I am still glad you found something to make you happy and know the river sailing will be totally different and very enjoyable. NMNita

[AirGorilla]

I am in agreement with the handful of posters who believe that waiting until 5:00 pm on 8/4 to inform qe2 that she was being "booted" off the 8/9 cruise is totally ridiculous. Especially considering that qe2 lives from Central Florida, and the cruise departs from an Italian port.

 

The fact that qe2 was on a travel agent reduced fare doesn't change the above. The late notice stinks!!

[Pudgesmom]

As the wife of an 19 year airline employee, this doesn't add up for me, either.

 

We learned a long time ago that you get what you pay for. We have been bumped many many times off our own airline for paying passengers, and been glad to get off. Its just part of the "perk."

 

Now, when we REALLY want to get there, or it is a busy travel season, we BUY a ticket and become part of the general public.

 

I think this situation is similar. This poster knew, or should have known, about the conditions affecting her ticket. If she was unwilling to accept those conditions, she could have paid slightly more to get "positive space."

 

Now, her gamble didn't work out, and she's whining here about losing out on her cruise. Sorry, no sympathy here.

 

Beth

[Writeratsea]

LOL..I could just hear my sales manager now!!! Actually, it has happened to him, too. It happens to all of us. I would never have even considered a prime time European cruise on a ta rate.........because experience tells me that it "ain't gonna happen". You just know how it's going to be. Heck when I win free cabins, I have a hard enough time getting the cabin!

 

Experienced agents know, the least expensive way to cruise is via an invite to an onboard seminar.. and that is confirmed space.

 

Now.. as to overbooking. We get a fax from the cruiseline stating that the cruise is overbooked in cat N-I, and would any of my clients booked in those categories care to switch to such and such cruise, with an upgrade, obc.. or whatever. They do ask for volunteers first.

 

Unless you are traveling on published tariff rates, you are immediately preemptible.. this includes agents, interline and journalists.

These are very good points. I don't use any trade discounts, I book as a regular passenger. It just is less hassle and I like to fly under the radar so to speak. When I am on vacation, I want to be on vacation. We have all taken enough FAM trips to realize what the deal is with them. You get the cheapest, local air carriers, sometimes get decent hotels, off season itineraries, have to fight for the food and excursions you were promised, etc. So why bother. And if you are honest, it is supposed to be a working vacation where you are there to familiarize yourself with the destination, facilities and the things to see. This is to reciprocate and sell the destination to your clients. But even knowing you could get shortchanged when you travel as a TA, common curtesty should prevail. Just because you are a TA or industry insider doesn't mean you should be treated with such disrespect or distain. How can I respect HAL as a cruiseline that honors its commitments and bookings regardless the passenger is a full fare paying or a discount traveler. Since the cruise is originating in Rome, obviously there are airline tickets involved as the OP is from Florida. Not to mention that the cancellation situation comes on a Friday afternoon when you on Vacation in a matter of hours. As the OP stated, not a lot of room for Plan B.It is not the money that is the problem, it is the limited vacation time I have and it is specific. I think everyone is missing the point. If there was a problem with overbooking at such a late date prior to sailing, why couldn't HAL be reasonable and try to work something out.I think HAL handled this very poorly and unprfessionally. Just to take QE2 and dump him into the trash is inexcusable and has accomplished the negative publicity that anyone who is treated unfairly would also raised. I would be mad too. I do wish that all the important information had been revealed upfront in the original post as it would have avoided all the speculation that naturally occured. Bottom line: I agree that prime time probably won't happen, but if you accept my money and give me documents, you better honor your commitment. The cruise line expects you to honor your commitments, hence the cancellation penalties. It should be a two way street. Are you a valued passenger who is potential repeat business or are you expendable with little regard for your value.

[KAYEF]

These CC boards are such a wonderful forum for learning, getting travel hints, meeting people, etc.:)

It's too bad that someone who is "new" to the boards came on to badmouth HAL..................I know all the "facts" came out later, three pages later, but that won't help people just beginning to learn on here. If someone comes on, sees the red hand, and reads just a bit.........they will have untrue information.

Thanks to those of you who knew the right questions to ask to get the true information.

Waiting so late to bump wasn't a good thing to do; we all understand how awful that would be (right now, I'm 12 days out and have no documents............ that has me concerned!!:o ) but, to be fair, we also know HAL is our preferred line and we KNOW why!! I'm sad that this person will no longer recommend HAL..............glad I'm not her (his?) client!!;)

[newmexicoNita]

I am in agreement with the handful of posters who believe that waiting until 5:00 pm on 8/4 to inform qe2 that she was being "booted" off the 8/9 cruise is totally ridiculous. Especially considering that qe2 lives from Central Florida, and the cruise departs from an Italian port.

 

The fact that qe2 was on a travel agent reduced fare doesn't change the above. The late notice stinks!!

this is the one part I totally agree with and I am not sure I understand why it took them so long. Other than that, reading her entire story I have to question a few things. She barely mentions being an agent in her first posting, but then more and more she comes back with this. Again, those of us who are agents have to question a little what is missing from her story. Again, bumping her, no matter who she was 5 days out sucks but as Pudgesmom said, we all know what can happen and the OP admitted she didn't get that great of a deal. Unless you are going to save a fortune you just don't take these chances during high season. NMNnita

[Scrumpy]

I am in agreement with the handful of posters who believe that waiting until 5:00 pm on 8/4 to inform qe2 that she was being "booted" off the 8/9 cruise is totally ridiculous. Especially considering that qe2 lives from Central Florida, and the cruise departs from an Italian port.

 

The fact that qe2 was on a travel agent reduced fare doesn't change the above. The late notice stinks!!

 

I agree, but we seem to be the minority. I can't understand not having some sympathy for the late notice alone. That is what baffles me. Sure, someone got a discounted rate, but how can that possibly excuse the incredibly late notification? Discounting anything else the OP said, I am still NOT very happy this happened to her/him or that it would ever happen to anyone, regardless of what their cruise cost. You'd think there'd be an absolute minimum standard that would ensure a person would have more advance notice. Oh well...

[Scrumpy]

Just an aside - being new to the boards doesn't necessarily lessen someone's credibility, at least not for me. Call me gullible; that's fine. I'd rather be gullible and empathetic than the alternative and I'd rather err on the side of being nice. Considering how badly some newcomers are treated, I don't imagine some of them will ever have the incredibly high post count of some other posters because folks will run them off before they get there. Sure, there are trolls out there or the perpetually dissatisfied, but assuming every new person with an issue is one of those is neither fair nor kind. I do personally feel badly for anyone who has had what they feel is an unpleasant or unfair experience, especially in a situation when they get both the lousy experience and the (predictable) unkind comments from other posters. Someone has had a poor experience; is it really necessarily to pour salt in the wounds? For some, the answer appears to be 'yes'. Why?

[Bramcruiser]

I have to apologize here and NOT to the OP. I want to apologize to those who questioned everything in the first place. I was fully on the OP's side thinking it was a horrible repeat of the Oceania incident where two passengers (fully paying) were bumped under strong armed tactics. Now I am finding out that our OP is a travel agent and booked an agent's rate. Discounted or not I am learning that a TA fare is similar to an airline's standby fare. The reality is - of course, you will be the first to be knocked off in lieu of full fare passengers as you only get to board if there is any space left. That's just the way it works. The TA fare, like airline's standby fares, are a lower priority and the TA should have known this. So why are we - the general public - being made pawns in this battle between the TA and the cruise line?

 

I feel used and need a shower. Anyone care to join me? (OOOPS! Did I say that out loud. he he he)

[RuthC]

Someone has had a poor experience; is it really necessarily to pour salt in the wounds? For some, the answer appears to be 'yes'. Why?

Speaking for myself only, I'll explain the "why". It's because the OP held back on the truth in the first place. That's what took away her credibility.

Had she explained in the first post that she booked under different rules---rules that allow for this very cancellation---this thread would have unravelled differently. But she didn't. The story was pulled out of her in dribs and drabs---making me doubt that she would have revealed the story had she not been challenged on the "facts".

Tell me your sad tale with an admission of your own responsibility in the matter and I can be sympathetic. Treat me like a gullible fool and I won't.

It's a matter of trust. I can't trust what qe2 says.

[newmexicoNita]

Just an aside - being new to the boards doesn't necessarily lessen someone's credibility, at least not for me. Call me gullible; that's fine. I'd rather be gullible and empathetic than the alternative and I'd rather err on the side of being nice. Considering how badly some newcomers are treated, I don't imagine some of them will ever have the incredibly high post count of some other posters because folks will run them off before they get there. Sure, there are trolls out there or the perpetually dissatisfied, but assuming every new person with an issue is one of those is neither fair nor kind. I do personally feel badly for anyone who has had what they feel is an unpleasant or unfair experience, especially in a situation when they get both the lousy experience and the (predictable) unkind comments from other posters. Someone has had a poor experience; is it really necessarily to pour salt in the wounds? For some, the answer appears to be 'yes'. Why?

I think many of us feel sorry for anyone, for any reason that gets bumped so late and most of us have said that. As for the rest, as a TA, who just happened to wander on to this post and tell just the beginning of the story til she gets our attention and then tells more, I for one have to doubt how honest she really is. Also, we all know and if she does too that this is the nature of the game. I guess only those of us who are agents or involved in the travel industry can fully understand. When I worked for a major hotel chain, I got to the hotel at 9:30pm, we had been flying all day, the hotel was sold out and no, they couldn't give us any room even if we paid. I had my conformation with me, the guy was very nice, but he couldn't do a thing. We ended up driving about an hour to another area where we spend the night at a motel. I wasn't the least bit upset: shocked yes, upset no. I fully understood. NMnita ps; and to you Braumcruiser, I will join you, but think I will have a drink instead of a shower.

[Scrumpy]

In a perfect world, a person's initial post would have all relevant info and would be presented in a logical manner. However, many posts are written on the fly or in the heat of the moment, and our minds do not always operate logically under those circumstances. Details that we forget to fully explain may be pertinent, but that doesn't mean we are purposely lying by omission. It just means they didn't immediately come to mind when we post something. We know our own situations and sometimes don't even think about the fact that others are completely ignorant of them. When we talk to our friends or family, we speak differently than we do to strangers - we don't have to explain everything. While I certainly wish all the facts had been posted at the beginning, I can understand why they might not have been without having to believe that someone is being deceptive. But, that's just me. I also am aware that while some have great written skills, it is a chore for others to try to express themselves and their accounts of things tend to be muddled - and the same person can be clear as a bell in one post, then write another that is nearly impossible to decipher. You can ask a question point-blank and get a response that is completely off-topic and meandering, so that you have no idea if there's an answer in there or not. This can be achieved in a 2-sentence post, btw. Most of the longer ones tend to make sense.

 

I guess ya'll better characterize me as a "gullible fool", although I wouldn't characterize myself that way. This situation has cost me nothing, after all. It hasn't really hurt me in any way. I simply feel sorry that anyone would end up with a last-minute cancellation and know that if I were in their shoes, I would feel a lot of emotions and none of them pleasant. I also might not have been thinking about anything other than the lateness of the cancellation and might not have expressed all the facts clearly. It's a cynical crowd around here sometimes. I tend to be an honest and trusting person, so accusations of deception don't sit well with me - even when they are not directed at me. I also have some memory impairment and give people the benefit of the doubt when they neglect to mention something. I often do it myself and would find it intolerable if folks accused me of purposely lying about things when I've merely forgotten a detail. Perhaps I'm simply coming from a different place than a lot of ya'll. I get that a lot. Ya know - in my own little world, but that's okay; they know me here ;)