Will You Swim with the Stingrays?

[UltimateDevotion]

I was scared when I first did the sting ray excursion, but by the end I loved it! They were so nice and gentle.

I would definetaly do it again and already have it booked for our cruise in October!

[AAAAmerican]

We have been with quite a few all over the world and they are usually docile creatures.

 

A member of the shark family as well.

 

CAUTION with any wild animal has to always be considered.

 

This gentleman who just passed was above her on top and they send the barb upside for defense.

 

What is most needed now is prayers for his family and kind thoughts/wishes.

 

 

His work in the awareness and the environment is going to be missed now .

 

Our prayers are with all and for his family now.

[michmike]

Have done it before and would do it again in a heartbeat. Was a great experience. As others have mentioned, you need to exercise a bit of common sense and caution, but where in life is that NOT the case?

 

We were flying a week ago Sunday when the Comair flight crashed in Lexington. We were also on Comair that day, flying out of Kentucky (Cinci airport). We're getting on a Comair flight again in 6 weeks to head to Ft Lauderdale for a cruise and flying in Jan to the Bahamas as well.

 

Certainly not reckless, but a firm believer that when your number is up, your number is up. In the meantime you have to live your life.

[Pudgesmom]

I would not do this excursion, but not because of Steve Irwin's death. I believe it is unethical for tourists to participate in these types of encounters.

 

Remember what happened with the bears in Yellowstone?

 

I know one of the major cruise lines, is it RSSC or Seabourn, has deleted these types of excursions due to the environmental concerns and damage to the animals.

 

Please consider not only your safety and well being, but also that of the animals before you pay anyone for this type of encounter.

 

Beth

[NoNoNanette]

I would not do this excursion, but not because of Steve Irwin's death. I believe it is unethical for tourists to participate in these types of encounters.

 

Remember what happened with the bears in Yellowstone?

 

I know one of the major cruise lines, is it RSSC or Seabourn, has deleted these types of excursions due to the environmental concerns and damage to the animals.

 

Please consider not only your safety and well being, but also that of the animals before you pay anyone for this type of encounter.

 

Beth

 

When we did this in Bora Bora, we were horrified to see a Japanese group's actions. The tour guide (also Japanese) literally snapped the ray's tail in order to paralyze it for a photo-op for his group. Our Tahitian were furious and they almost came to blows.

 

It was one of the saddest things that I've ever seen. :(

[Sea King]

Never went on the sting ray tours in the past although thought about once or twice

 

after this tragedy, no more thinking: I'll definitely opt for Lido Pool

 

suspect "sting ray" tours will be on the "light side" for a while

[twinkletoes4445]

double post.

[twinkletoes4445]

To answer the question, no I would not swim with the Stingray. I will stick to swimming with the dolphins this year..;)

John

 

You should watch the show that's been airing on cable (I can't remember the channel), but it's about dolphins attacking. It was at the dolphin swim in Cancun, but it was frightening. We did the dolphin swim in Cozumel, and I can tell you, when I watched this show, I think my heart skipped a beat.

 

This was on a week or so ago. I think it was on the Discovery Channel (or one like that).

 

That said, I'd probably swim with the stingrays and do the dolphin swim again.

[kryos]

After hearing about the tragic death of crocodile hunter/environmentalist Steve Irwin in Australia, will you still consider doing the "Swim with the Stingray" Tours?

[/b]

The stingray he was "playing with" weighed something like 270 pounds, from what I understand. That is clearly not the same thing that we encounter when "swimming" with the stingrays.

 

I swam with stingrays on about four different excursions while in the Hawaii/South Pacific. In about three to four years, I hope to do that Hawaii/South Pacific itinerary again, and yes ... I would definitely swim with the stingrays again.

 

Look ... Steve Irwin was clearly "extreme." He loved that stuff. Well, he died doing what he loved and he was a lucky man for that. Most of us die in far more tragic circumstances ... rotting in nursing homes, suffering from terminal cancer ... you name it.

 

I admire Steve Irwin. He lived his life as he saw fit and it was clear he enjoyed it immensely. He took his chances and in this case his number came up. Feel bad about it ... but certainly don't pity him for what happened. He knew the risks and chose to take them. A former skydiver can well understand that attitude. :)

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

I would not do this excursion, but not because of Steve Irwin's death. I believe it is unethical for tourists to participate in these types of encounters.

I don't know how all of these excursions work, but on the ones we did in the South Pacific, we were totally transparent to those stingrays. Yes, the tour leader fed them ... in order to attract them to swim around us so that we could get photographs ... but we did nothing to hinder them or interfere with their normal lifestyle. I doubt they minded our presence one iota. In fact, my guess is that they looked forward to it ... feeding time! :)

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[HeatherInFlorida]

This thread has really upset me more than I ever imagined words on a page could. The more I have heard and read about the death of Steve Irwin, the more upset I become. Because it is clear that the stingray that was the cause of Steve Irwin's death is absolutely no different than the ones in Grand Cayman.

 

The chances of anything like this happening to anyone doing a tour like this are close to zero. Only 17 deaths ever from a stingray and that's because they are a docile creature who has no desire to harm us. So I agree everyone's risk is very small.

 

When we did the tour in Grand Cayman (and there were many other tourboats all around the same area), there could have been no shuffling of feet on the sandy bottom. The water was quite choppy (in fact they apologized that we couldn't see the stingrays that well in the churned waters) and there was no way you could stand.

 

I admit I foolishly misunderstood what the outting would be. I was so upset when I saw what seemed like hundreds of people swarming off all the boats. The stingrays who only came to feed ended up being pawns in everyone's fun. I was back up on the boat pretty quickly because I can't stand any man or animal exploited.

 

Yet so many posting here have such an extraordinary devil may care attitude about it. At least Steve Irwin had a reason for what he was doing and his life's work had a purpose. I didn't support much of what he did, truthfully, and didn't think it was in the best interest of his children or sometimes the crocodiles, but he had a passion and a mission and so I respect him for that.

 

But no one here has a reason in the world to participate other than their own pleasure. The whole world has gone nuts with itself for their own pleasure with no regard to the animals involved or the effect it has on them. And they seem to forget that all these creatures on land or sea are wild and are not there for entertainment.

 

I'm so glad so many of you see my point of view (and the point of view of many, many others), but I'm saddened by the cavalier attitude by so many.

 

I realize the reaction this post will bring, but when you react please understand there's nothing anyone could ever say to change the way I feel about this. So if that would be your goal, it's not worth your time or energy.

 

Go and have your fun if you must ... I realize I can't change your minds either. But personally I would love to see every tour that engages in any of this is simply wiped off the face of the earth.

[caribbeanchickie]

Very well said, Heather!!!

 

 

This thread has really upset me more than I ever imagined words on a page could. The more I have heard and read about the death of Steve Irwin, the more upset I become. Because it is clear that the stingray that was the cause of Steve Irwin's death is absolutely no different than the ones in Grand Cayman.

 

The chances of anything like this happening to anyone doing a tour like this are close to zero. Only 17 deaths ever from a stingray and that's because they are a docile creature who has no desire to harm us. So I agree everyone's risk is very small.

 

When we did the tour in Grand Cayman (and there were many other tourboats all around the same area), there could have been no shuffling of feet on the sandy bottom. The water was quite choppy (in fact they apologized that we couldn't see the stingrays that well in the churned waters) and there was no way you could stand.

 

I admit I foolishly misunderstood what the outting would be. I was so upset when I saw what seemed like hundreds of people swarming off all the boats. The stingrays who only came to feed ended up being pawns in everyone's fun. I was back up on the boat pretty quickly because I can't stand any man or animal exploited.

 

Yet so many posting here have such an extraordinary devil may care attitude about it. At least Steve Irwin had a reason for what he was doing and his life's work had a purpose. I didn't support much of what he did, truthfully, and didn't think it was in the best interest of his children or sometimes the crocodiles, but he had a passion and a mission and so I respect him for that.

 

But no one here has a reason in the world to participate other than their own pleasure. The whole world has gone nuts with itself for their own pleasure with no regard to the animals involved or the effect it has on them. And they seem to forget that all these creatures on land or sea are wild and are not there for entertainment.

 

I'm so glad so many of you see my point of view (and the point of view of many, many others), but I'm saddened by the cavalier attitude by so many.

 

I realize the reaction this post will bring, but when you react please understand there's nothing anyone could ever say to change the way I feel about this. So if that would be your goal, it's not worth your time or energy.

 

Go and have your fun if you must ... I realize I can't change your minds either. But personally I would love to see every tour that engages in any of this is simply wiped off the face of the earth.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

I doubt they minded our presence one iota. In fact, my guess is that they looked forward to it ... feeding time! :)

 

Blue skies ...

--rita

 

Rita, I agree with you totally. First off it is my understanding especially in the Grand Caymans that the Sting Rays swim to this area daily. If they did want want yo be bothered by humans and want the contact WHY do they return daily. I remember after the hurricanes in fall of 2004 they there were some in GC questioning if the Sting Rays would return. Well, they did. I did this excursion with Nativeway which was good because our boat/group was very small and the guides could explain a lot more to us. I also found that you could tell how smart the Sting Rays were. They knew instantly our boat and guides and came right to them. It was as though they wanted the attention. You could also tell they they knew the people that were scared and those that were not. They tended to stay away from those that were jumping around. I myself was not the least bit scared and had one that kept following me and rubbing up against me. Our guided even commented that he saw that that one really liked me. They even had names for different ones. No one can tell me differently that these Sting Rays did not also like this encounter. Can an accident happen YES, but they also told us what to do and how to shuffle our feet in the sand. I just do not think in any way we are hurting these Sting Rays. Although I do think that it is way too crowded and the numbers should definitely be limited. If they have to raise the price and limit the numbers like they do for the dolphin swim then they should.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

Interstingly enough I just got this email which I am sure many of you that subscribe may also have gotten.

 

CruiseMates Newsletter

http://www.cruisemates.com

S E P T E M B E R 5 , 2 0 0 6 CRUISEMATES IS NOT A TRAVEL AGENCY

We are an online, interactive CRUISE SHIP GUIDE recommended by: New York Times -- Wall Street Journal -- CNN Television; A Forbes Magazine "Best of the Web" Web site.

 

Commentary by Paul Motter

--------------- * Swimming with Sting Rays - Is It Safe?

We cruisers were especially shocked to hear the details behind the unfortunate death of Australian ecologist and animal lover Steve Irwin. Swimming with the stingrays in Grand Cayman is one of the most popular shore tours ever, now newly offered in the Bahamas and other ports. I have done it three times myself! I even have a picture of my wife and me holding one out of the water, more or less hugging it to our bodies, which we did by encouragement of our guide, who took the picture and charged us $10 for it.

 

Is it safe? There are now but two recorded deaths by stingray in recent world history. In the wild, stingrays are non-aggresive fish who nestle in the sand of the ocean floor. The largest occurance of penetrating stings happen when people inadvertently step on them, usually in murky water. (The actual barbed stinger is at the top of the spine, not at the end of the tail). A stingray will only use its stinger defensively, if it feels cornered and there is no other way to survive, and only as a last resort, because it takes years to grow a stinger.

 

Steve Irwin was not merely stung by the fish, he was stabbed in the chest with the stinger penetrating his ribcage, by a large bull ray stingray who felt threatened enough to attack. This is a series of highly unlikely events.

 

There are some 200 species of stingrays, and Australia is known for having some of the most agressive. Grand Cayman officials point out that their Caribbean stingrays swim into the bay by choice, looking for people they know will feed them. They have been doing it for 50 years now and are well conditioned to the interaction. The waters are almost crystal clear, and wide open so the rays can easily get away. The fish are there to be fed by humans, not to dig into the sand and sleep.

 

Do accidents happen in Grand Cayman? Very, very rarely. There is one concern officials have there, however, and I am guilty of it myself. They consider the act of lifting the fish out of the water for picture taking by the guides to be cruel and unnatural for the fish, and now we realize, potentially severely dangerous for the people doing it. Given Steve Irwin's record of respect for the natural rights of animals, and given the way he died, it seems the banning of lifting sting rays out of the water in Grand Cayman would be a fitting tribute to the man who gave us so much knowledge and appreciation for sea life.

 

[RuthC]

Excellent letter, Lisa. Thanks for posting it.

When I did the Stingray City tour on Grand Cayman they stressed that we were to shuffle along rather than walk and step, and they were adamant that we were not to lift the rays out of the water.

I think we were told that the rays breathe from the bottom of their bodies, and to lift them out of the water is tantamount to suffocating them.

If I understand Heather's point of view on this she believes that to attract the rays, to interact with them, and to have them become dependent on us for food is unnatural and therefore will not participate in it.

That's not unlike what we're told while visiting Denali Park. Different type of wildlife, but same idea.

[Namvet4]

The death of Steve Irwin was a very sad and unfortunate accident causing the loss of a professed environmentalist and adventurer. My prayers are for his family. As others have said, he died doing what defined his life.

In response to Sail7Seas question, I am not sure if I would enjoy swimming with the stingrays. I have never had a great affinity to interacting with wildlife.

I have always believed that I am seen as the intruder in their world.

I do not live my life in fear, nor do I live it with reckless abandon. Perhaps in my youth it was different, but in the time that I have remaining on this earth, I am cognizant of the risks a little more than I am of the reward.

I do believe that the tour operators for these “adventures” will be expending a significant amount of time and money downplaying the perceived risks. It is in their best economic interests to do so. And as long as they do so without providing false and/or misleading information, than it becomes the responsibility of each person to weigh the risks and make their own decision. If you enjoy it, so be it! If not than there are a multitude of other excursions and interactive activities for cruise ship passengers to enjoy.

just my 2 cents....

[HeatherInFlorida]

................. If they did want want yo be bothered by humans and want the contact WHY do they return daily. ..............

 

........... because they know there is FOOD there!!!!! Same as your pet dog or cat go to their food dish ..... same reason down here in sunny Florida they tell you not to put food out for the gators.

 

Ruth, goes a bit beyond that, but yes exactly.

 

Namvet, "intruder in their world" is a wonderful way to put it and and your excellent post is so much more succinct than mine.:)

[Pudgesmom]

Rita, I agree with you totally. First off it is my understanding especially in the Grand Caymans that the Sting Rays swim to this area daily. If they did want want yo be bothered by humans and want the contact WHY do they return daily. I remember after the hurricanes in fall of 2004 they there were some in GC questioning if the Sting Rays would return. Well, they did. I did this excursion with Nativeway which was good because our boat/group was very small and the guides could explain a lot more to us. I also found that you could tell how smart the Sting Rays were. They knew instantly our boat and guides and came right to them. It was as though they wanted the attention. You could also tell they they knew the people that were scared and those that were not. They tended to stay away from those that were jumping around. I myself was not the least bit scared and had one that kept following me and rubbing up against me. Our guided even commented that he saw that that one really liked me. They even had names for different ones. No one can tell me differently that these Sting Rays did not also like this encounter. Can an accident happen YES, but they also told us what to do and how to shuffle our feet in the sand. I just do not think in any way we are hurting these Sting Rays. Although I do think that it is way too crowded and the numbers should definitely be limited. If they have to raise the price and limit the numbers like they do for the dolphin swim then they should.

 

I agree with Heather. These animals are returning for the food.

 

In addition, to anthropomorphise them by saying they "like you" or knew "who was scared" is incorrect. The sting rays' responses may seem human to you, but they are not.

 

Lastly, RAISE THE PRICE?! This is your idea of how to protect our environment? Most likely, this will just cause additional operators to enter the water with more boats, more tourists and more non-native food.

If the business is there, the operators will be, too, especially if the income is greater.

 

Please consider NOT joining these expeditions. At the very least, refuse to participate in any excursion using captive animals who are kept in unknown circumstances or one in which animals are fed by humans.

 

There are soooo many other ways to view wildlife without disturbing it.

 

Beth

[serendipity1499]

Now se I have heard that as cute as Koalas are , they are supposed to be quite viscious. I read somewhere that those little beak like mouths of theres can do a lot of damage because they are very strong as the Koalas use them to crack open nuts and various branches.

 

At least that is what I have heard , unless someone here knows different.

 

It was in the 70's in a park near Sydney..Maybe Aussie Girl would remember where it is..The Koala was a Baby & I had a Fake gray fur Cape on..He nuzzled & clung to me as if I was his Mother & would not let go...They had to pry him away from me..I was in 7th Heaven & will never forget that as long as I live..

 

Agree Sloth's are extremely docile..The kids had them on our canoe trip in the Amazon & passed them into our canoe..But their nails are like Koala's nails very Long to climb the trees..

Betty

[michmike]

ok so let me get this straight.. the more politically correct course of conduct (not to mention more nature friendly) would be to forego the stingray excursion and instead find a nice cafe in town, overlooking the water, and have a bowl of conch chowder and a nice blackened grouper sandwich???

 

I think the conch and the grouper would argue that the stingrays are getting the best of the deal.

[watchdiva]

We have "done" the sting ray excursions twice - once at HMC and another at GC. DH and I would go again in a heartbeat!

[DD]

Are the stingrays in Grand Cayman conditioned to come for food? Absolutely. However, in other seas, in other oceans, it's not uncommon for stingrays to routinely swim up close to humans. They are naturally curious creatures and they are gregarious.

 

I have swam with stingrays many many times in various countries, twice in Grand Cayman. Once was years ago at the original Stingray City and once a few years ago at Stingray City (Sandbar). I didn't particularly like the Grand Cayman experience. I don't like the whole parade them around aspect of it and I don't particularly like being with a couple hundred other people, many of whom cannot swim, floundering around in the water. I also don't like to feed wild creatures.

 

However, in other areas of the world, it's not uncommon to be swimming and have stingrays approach you, not for food, not because of conditioning, but because that's their nature. In French Polynesia, the seas are lousy with them. You can't get away from them and they'll follow you around like puppies. I wasn't feeding them, I wasn't photo-opping them. They're just curious friendly creatures.

 

Would I do it again? In the wild, yes. In a "canned" experience, no. I don't think that it's horrible, I just prefer it in less crowded waters.

[Mrsg324]

The stingray he was "playing with" weighed something like 270 pounds, from what I understand. That is clearly not the same thing that we encounter when "swimming" with the stingrays.

 

I swam with stingrays on about four different excursions while in the Hawaii/South Pacific. In about three to four years, I hope to do that Hawaii/South Pacific itinerary again, and yes ... I would definitely swim with the stingrays again.

 

Look ... Steve Irwin was clearly "extreme." He loved that stuff. Well, he died doing what he loved and he was a lucky man for that. Most of us die in far more tragic circumstances ... rotting in nursing homes, suffering from terminal cancer ... you name it.

 

I admire Steve Irwin. He lived his life as he saw fit and it was clear he enjoyed it immensely. He took his chances and in this case his number came up. Feel bad about it ... but certainly don't pity him for what happened. He knew the risks and chose to take them. A former skydiver can well understand that attitude. :)

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

 

I couldn't have said it better. I was just coming to post at least he died doing what he loved. It is a sad situation for his family but he knew the risks with everything he did.

I am a diver, I don't have many dives behind my belt but I've seen barracudas, sharks, stingrays, eels, etc. At first I was a little frightened but I could just as easily die in a car accident. At least if I died doing something I enjoyed, my life would be fullfilled. I wouldn't want to leave my children or my husband but when it is my time to go, there is nothing I can do about it. Only the great man above holds that power.

[DD]

Hi fellow diver! I'll never forget a statistic that I learned in training. More people die in bowling accidents each year than die while scuba diving.

[sail7seas]

Hi fellow diver! I'll never forget a statistic that I learned in training. More people die in bowling accidents each year than die while scuba diving.

 

We lost a friend this year to a scuba diving accident in Mexico. His heart attack while under water was unsurvivable.

 

I wouldn't want to dispute you but......more die bowling? That is a statistic that interests me.