Why did HAL change?

[amusea]

There seems to be a variance in the music situation depending on the ship which indicates that it is not an edict from the HAL main office but rather a decision by staff on the ship. I can't imagine that HAL would only give the ship staff the choice of hard rock or soft rock.

My experience on Celebrity with this problem seems to have done some good. On one and only one Celebrity cruise I was at my usual outdoor favorite spot on the Promenade Deck when loud music started to be channelled through the speakers that are usually only used for announcements. My protestations to staff fell on deaf ears so I talked to as many passengers as possible and found that most were offended by the Promenade Deck music. I started a campaign to have folks make their opinions known on the comment cards. I think they got a lot of thumbs down and I've never experienced this situation again on Celebrity- but on Promenade Deck only. We need lots of squeaky wheels.:rolleyes:

[kryos]

It's the precedent that's troubling. After all, eventually the R and S ships will have to be replaced and, more than likely, the newbuilds will embrace the "changes" that are appearing on the Vista Class ships. I guess the only recourse is to let your voice be heard if this is an irritation to you.

You are absolutely right. They won't be building "R" and "S" class ships anymore ... so everything will eventually be Vista or even bigger ... hence, the move to a younger passenger set and away from the atmosphere that the older set enjoys.

 

That's why I am glad I cruise now ... while I am still working ... and did not wait until I retired to start doing it. My fear is that by the time I retire in another 15 to 20 years, there won't be any cruise ships out there that I would be interested in sailing. They will all be large "cities at sea" with the non-stop party going on.

 

Not my cup of tea. Guess I'll have to find another vacationing alternative when that time comes.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

If there are people that want a jumpy, rock music kind of enviroment on their cruise there are plenty of cruise lines out there to serve their needs! But please keep your hands off of Holland America Line for the rest of us!

Sadly, it's not quite as simple as that. Many, many people have no particular loyalty to any one cruise line. When they book a vacation, they will look for the itinerary they want to do, the number of days they want to cruise, and then find the line that offers them the most bang for their buck. If HAL comes out to be giving them the most cruise for their dollars, that's where they will book. Then once onboard, they will want that jumpy, peppy environment ... and to attract these boatloads of new cruisers, HAL will be more than happy to give it to them.

 

Remember, large ships ... like the Vistas ... require a full load of passengers to sail cost-efffectively. HAL will do whatever they can to fill those ships and if today's cruiser wants different things from what yesterday's cruiser wanted, HAL will respond to those needs ... with peppy music in all public areas, flexible dining plans, optional formal nights, whatever.

 

Sadly, it's the way the industry is going and one day there will be very few cruise lines offering the experience we look for ... and those lines, operating small ships, will charge premium fares.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[SLove]

Hi Rita! I have appreciated your posts for years.

 

I agree with some of what you say above but do disagree that the path that HA is taking to attract a younger cruiser. Last I checked, I'm young! But I don't like the fact that I can't find any peace and quiet on board the ships. Plus, I like mainly Faith Hill, Dixie Chicks when I am working out or doing house chores but NOT on vacation! I go on vacation to VACATE my day to day life!

 

If HA is becoming just a discount cruise line that acts and sounds just like every other Carnival line then they should say so and quit the "we are five-star" stuff. I did prefer HA over Celebrity because of the confort, size of rooms, and friendly crew but after my last experience on the Ooster I will probably go back to Celebrity or just save up for Radisson.

 

Does anyone from HA read this stuff or are we just going to get ignored?

[p.nutgirl]

I am young... I LOVE 80'S MUSIC!!! BUT I DID NOT CHOOSE CARNIVAL!!

 

Actually this is not good news to me at all. Having constant rock music playing everywhere actually gives me a headache!! Ok play the music loud if I am at a disco!! But walking around??? What wet t-shirt contests next??

 

Yes I went overboard with that last statement, but this is a very big concern for me. Just because some of us are young it does not mean we want this atmosphere.

 

Nothing is better to me than a mix of ALL music, don't pound my heart day and night with rock n roll.. Good thing we booked a Suite with a large balcony... looks like I'll be room bound..

 

I chose HAL due to sophistication.. I do hope that somebody does read these posts...

 

I like the comment card idea...

[happy cruzer]

I find this rock music thing so weird. And I totally agree that relaxing days during a vacation on HAL is what they seem to market. Look at the tv ads and the music on the website.

 

Look at the info that they mail out. Usually well dressed people in casual resort attire or nicer. Usually about 1 kid per page. "comfort and elegance embrace you" was repeated several times in the ad I am looking at.

 

Does not make sense. Someone needs to reconnect the music dept to the marketing dept. :(

[uncialman]

Before I post a rather lengthy post on this subject I do want to take time to thank Mr. Deering, Mr. JP, and Mr. DP at Holland America for looking into this issue and taking the matter seriously. Whether this will have a direct effect upon the decisions of the Entertainment Dept. at HAL corporate is a completely diferent issue.

 

Just to let all of you know, HAL is reading and looking at this thread. So, if you would like to let your opinions be known, please feel free to do so. I can rest assure you that Holland America Line will listen to us on this issue *if* we can remain civil and intelligent in our complaints. Most importantly, we need to give some constructive criticism as to what HAL should do to present a fully-orbed premium product. I honestly hope that we can help contribute to HAL remaining a traditional premium product.

[uncialman]

Lets understand one thing: the posters on this board want only the best for HAL over the next few years. We love the traditional premium product and hope that HAL will understand our collective heart in this issue.

 

I’ve never had an issue with what live music is being played in the lounges and bars of Holland America Line. In some segments of the ship, such as the Explorer’s Lounge, the Rosario Strings entertain a sizable group during the evenings. In the lounges on deck 3, the competent musicians play favorites from the 50’s and 60’s at a tolerable listening and dancing level. The crows nest always has a good variety at night and the Northern Lights Disco exists for those that are looking for a bit more *edgy* dance experience. I have no issues with any of this. The problem comes with the inescapable pop-rock musical wallpaper that exists throughout the entire ship for 24 hours a day that is only of *one* particular style. The current line of thinking from the entertainment dept. states that they are trying to appeal to a younger, 30-45 age group so they play pop rock. This, of course, assumes that anyone in that demographic wants to hear nothing but the same pop rock songs played constantly over a seven day period - which of course is false. As a thirty something, I really don't want to hear any of this during what is supposed to be a relaxing cruise vacation. I don’t hear jazz, I don’t hear country, I don’t hear classical, I don’t hear new age: I hear only pop rock. We are forced to eat with it in the Lido, read to it in the Erasmus Library, work to it in the internet café, drink to it in the Windstar café, attempt to relax with it by the pool, and have it follow us around wherever we are in public areas of the ship. However, I believe the core of the matter should be what face or brand Holland America Line wants to put on their product as opposed to trying to find a middle road. The ambiance should be reflective of the product offered, in this case premium and traditional, not necessarily what age group it hopes to bring aboard. This is the way that Disney, Four Seasons, Ritz Carlton, JW Marriot, Celebrity, Crystal and other view the issues surrounding the branding of ambiance.

 

Secondly, the issue goes far beyond age. If the product that Holland America Line is offering is supposed to resemble “Traditional Cruising” and “Premium Cruising”, then the general ambiance should be consistent with the claims. For instance:

 

1. When entering the Waldorf Astoria in New York City, what kind of music will be playing when you walk through the lobby and public rooms of the hotel?

2. When dining at a traditional, 3 star (Michelin rating) restaurant, will the restaurant play pop rock or musical selections that fit the ambiance of the dining experience?

3. When entering an exclusive spa or Country Club, will you find the musical selections to be pop rock or musical selections that exude class and social prominence?

4. When entering the atrium of a Celebrity Cruise ship, will you here pop rock or classical chamber selections being played throughout the ship? How about Crystal, Radisson (Regent), or Silver Sea?

5. In Panera Bread, one of the nations fastest growing restaurant chain, do they play pop rock for the mostly young crowds that crowd their eateries or do they weave a tapestry of light classical and jazz to create a calming, reflective atmosphere?

 

The answer to all of these items is that the musical selection will be based upon the product that is being offered to the consumer. In all of these examples, the customer is looking for particular elements that define a premium, luxury experience. Please understand, this is one of the reasons that I have brought these particular groups to HAL: the groups are looking for a refined, relaxed, quiet atmosphere. I believe that I can also say with confidence that this is the case with the vast majority of your repeating Mariner Cruisers (which is obvious by this thread on Cruise Critic ). The Oosterdam, unfortunately, has not lived up to that promise. The music in the public areas has lead to a hurried, tense environment on board; much like the experience aboard the Carnival and RCI ships that I am on many, many days out of the year. Can you imagine hearing “Super Freak” or “My House” (Mary Jane Girls) when first walking into the lobby of the Waldorf Astoria or any Ritz Carlton? No, because such a vision is absurd with a premium, traditional product.

 

Holland America Line currently proclaims their position in the industry as the leader in “traditional, premium cruising”. Tradition must have a center or a beginning presupposition that does not evolve or change over the course of time. To change or modify a product necessarily means that the product itself ceases to be “traditional.” You can call the current product “The New Holland America Line” or whatever you choose, but there does need to be an understanding that HAL is attempting to modify its current product.

 

Lets understand one thing: the posters on this board want only the best for HAL over the next few years.

[crystal808]

uncialman:

 

Thank you for your well-thought out vision on this subject. I am in complete agreement as to the majority of the CCers here wanting the best for HAL, in keeping with its value of Traditional Elegance.

 

Admittedly, on the Noordam in July, I simply did not notice any extraneous musical "offerings" on board, which is exactly as it should be! Admittedly, I'm not a fan of the latter stages of "pop rock", although I earned quite a bit of money playing earlier (60's-80's) versions in my "past" life, as a, then, full-time musician.

 

It is disheartening, at best, to hear of the change in ambient music for the Oosterdam. I'm sure Mr. Deering, in listening to his guests' comments, will be doing his best to glean the best atmosphere for his anticipated guests, aboard "his" Oosterdam.

 

I, too, hope that these posts will help HAL understand how much we, the returning Mariners, expect them to continue their "service of excellence" tradition; not only in their musical offerings, but in the service and ambiance through which they've gained our respect.

 

Thanks again for your eloquent post.

 

Paul

[hammybee]

We too have noticed the trend towards obnoxious music. On our last cruise, we found the source:

[crystal808]

We too have noticed the trend towards obnoxious music. On our last cruise, we found the source:

 

Maybe the CAT-alogue of cat pictures are best on other threads!!! :eek:

 

JMHO,

 

Paul :)

 

(but thanks for the smile!)

[C 2 C]

Just as I was ready to book a relaxing winter cruise on HAL again after a few years over at Celebrity, I read this disturbing news. I'm just in the wrong demographic to appreciate anything after the "golden oldies"... it's just I'm a little older than the new oldies.;)

[dougnewmanatsea]

I am a fierce opponent of all constant piped-in music, regardless of what type.

 

In the UK there is a great organization called PipeDown which works to combat this scourge of acoustic wallpaper.

 

Unfortunately, this problem is far from limited to HAL. I have noticed the same (or worse) on Cunard and Celebrity as well as HAL in the past year.

[the2ofus]

Uncialman, thank you for your very eloquent analysis of the issue. I wholeheartedly concur! HAL, are you listening??

 

Several years ago we were docked next to an NCL ship in Kauai. The constant music blaring over their loudspeakers on deck throughout the day convinced me I never wanted to sail on NCL. We have docked next to Carnival ships and heard constant "noise" music all day. I have had friends in my over-60 age bracket who have sailed Carnival and say the constant rock music is the one thing they dislike the most. Last Spring I sailed on RCCL. There seemed to be a constant uproar in the public spaces, much of it the ambient music.

 

If I want constant distraction I can carry an iPod or a Walkman with MY choice of music.

 

Personally, I like the sound of the sea and the waves. I like quiet to think my own thoughts. If HAL insists on inflicting ambient music on my unwilling ears, my willing feet will find another cruise line.

[AAAAmerican]

Instead of playing undesireable music, which is personal in choice..

 

Why dont the cruise lines look at this as an extreme opportunity now..

Even the PEARL is being released now yes the Blackberry Pearl..

So why not rent devices with disposable earphones or bring yoiur own...:p

 

Revenue in another form is great for the cruise lines ... CA CHING*$

 

I try to hear the sirens when at sea calling....:eek:

[SLove]

I never thought that my little post would get so much attention.

 

I guess there are alot of people who share my sentiments on this issue!

 

Hey Holland America! My husband and I love you a lot, and we are yungins in our 30's. Pretty please bring back the relaxing and calming music that you used to play in your ships! We really don't want to go looking for another cruise line to sail but if we can't wind down and relax in peace and quiet, why go on one of your cruises?

 

Hey Uncicalman! I wish I could say things the way you do. You summed the problem up beautifully. I take it that you must have thought about this issue a little? Do you think that HA executives will listen to us 30ish people on this subject or are they going to chase the passengers that won't be loyal to them?

[amusea]

Even if the type of music being played through loudspeakers is amended to be more suitable for the typical HAL passenger, only the ship's staff can control the volume and to me this is as important as the music being played. Of course, I would prefer silence and the sea.

[C 2 C]

Unfortunately, this problem is far from limited to HAL. I have noticed the same (or worse) on Cunard and Celebrity as well as HAL in the past year.

Hi Doug:

We have sailed on nearly a dozen Celebrity cruises in the past year or so and have never had a problem finding a quiet lounge or a crew member who would not turn down the music volume when asked. On which ship did you have a problem with loud intrusive music in all the lounges?:confused:

[thomasale]

I have read this thread with interest. I for one, couldn't care less what they play for background music because I just don't hear it. Sorry for those of you that do and more sorry for those of you that care.

 

It does seem to me that HAL should pay attention to those that care because I believe that most cruisers don't care what if anything is on in the background. So why not make those that have nothing better to do than listen to the background music (if its' there) happy...what's that your saying???You CAN'T make everyone happy???

 

Think I'll just stay home...NOT :)

[Chorts]

I, for one, would prefer NO MUSIC in the background. I want to hear the sound of the sea or the sounds of silence in the background. It's gotten to the point that the only place you can be without hearing background music is your own home or your car. I challange anyone anyone who can come up with a public place (federal and state buildings don't count) where background music is not playing......restaurants, shopping (and some shops are absolutely horrible) ..... just getting gas....... anyone?

HAL? Are you listening? Please just give us peace and quite. If I want music I'll go to a lounge where there's live musicians. Fair enough?

[rfbdorf]

Thanks for the well-written posts, uncialman - I am in complete ageement. I am an amateur musician (although I have made some $$ at it), love it, but hate being assailed by loud out-of-place music. Our first cruise will be on the Oosterdam next summer; if there's excessively loud or obnoxious inescapable background music, it will be our last cruise.

- Richard

[cruznon]

It's distressing to me to hear that rock music is being piped throughout the Oosterdam. I loved the elegant, serene beauty of the big "O" and cannot tolerate constant background music. I love the serene beauty of the sea and the sound of the waves. If I want music, I plug in my ipod--the the music is MY choice--not what others think I want to hear! (And WHERE I want to hear it!)

 

I can understand that music is played around the pool--that is a festive area--but there need to be quiet areas without the assault to our ears.

 

If I find blaring music throughout a ship, I will never sail on that line again--simple as that.

Mass-marketing of HAL to appeal a a younger, more party-oriented crowd is changing the product that many HAL customers have come to expect. I have sailed on HAL BECAUSE of the atmosphere and the traditions of formal night,etc.

 

IMHO, it is not a a good thing for a company to alienate its loyal customer base.

[Chorts]

It's distressing to me to hear that rock music is being piped throughout the Oosterdam. I loved the elegant, serene beauty of the big "O" and cannot tolerate constant background music. I love the serene beauty of the sea and the sound of the waves. If I want music, I plug in my ipod--the the music is MY choice--not what others think I want to hear! (And WHERE I want to hear it!)

 

I can understand that music is played around the pool--that is a festive area--but there need to be quiet areas without the assault to our ears.

 

If I find blaring music throughout a ship, I will never sail on that line again--simple as that.

Mass-marketing of HAL to appeal a a younger, more party-oriented crowd is changing the product that many HAL customers have come to expect. I have sailed on HAL BECAUSE of the atmosphere and the traditions of formal night,etc.

 

IMHO, it is not a a good thing for a company to alienate its loyal customer base.

 

This is exactly my sentiments......music I wish to hear, WHEN I wish to hear it.

[RuthC]

have never had a problem finding a crew member who would not turn down the music volume when asked.

I think a major point of this thread---and the consensus of opinion---is that it should not be necessary to ask that the volume be turned down. The music---if played at all---should be soft enough that it's not noticed unless you're listening for it.

 

I don't mind soft music inside the ship, or even around the Lido pool. But I don't like it at all on outside decks where I want to enjoy the rhythm of the sea. Last March on the Noordam there was too-loud, jumpy music at the outside pool and it detracted from my enjoyment of the area.

[C 2 C]

I think a major point of this thread---and the consensus of opinion---is that it should not be necessary to ask that the volume be turned down. The music---if played at all---should be soft enough that it's not noticed unless you're listening for it.

 

Has anyone contacted HAL directly and received a response? This does not seem to be a good way to maintain the customer base that has sustained HAL all these years.... Or did HAL read the the cruisecritic comments about the persistent rumors of only old people on board... and they were responding loud and clear:eek: