Why did HAL change?

[fsalzer]

Has anyone contacted HAL directly and received a response?

 

You might want to refer to posts 33 and 34 on this thread. Or, perhaps you mean something different.

 

Fred

[C 2 C]

You might want to refer to posts 33 and 34 on this thread. Or, perhaps you mean something different.

 

Fred

 

I could not find a reference to a letter received from HAL HQ but I might have missed it.

I was trying to find out if more than one person has spoken to the cruise directors on different ships, or talked to a person in charge at head office or whether responses come from "customer service" on board? Perhaps someone had the opportunity to talk to officers on board at a cocktail party... anything to register annoyance of the new policy in polite company.

[dougnewmanatsea]

On which ship did you have a problem with loud intrusive music in all the lounges?

ZENITH. Actually, thinking about it more, the problem was not as bad as it has been on HAL and Cunard - but it was still there.

 

I haven't been on a cruise in a long time where there has not been at least some piped-in music. On the other hand, I don't think I've ever been on a ship where it was absolutely impossible to escape it. Usually there is somewhere one can go to run away from this stuff - even if it is the library.

 

Note, I don't care if it's "loud intrusive music" (what's "loud" or what style of music one likes or doesn't like is up to personal taste) - I will be satisfied with nothing less than no piped in music, period.

 

From my personal experience of the last year, I would rate Cunard worst in this respect, followed by HAL, and Celebrity the best (not that it was good; just not as bad as others).

[skyedoggie]

My DH and I are so disappointed about all that we are reading here. HAL I'm hoping that you are reading this thread.

 

I read Cruznon's post and I'd have to say that post sums it up for us too.

 

When we were onboard the Westerdam last year we thought we had finally found our home away from home! I actually cried when we entered our cabin Cat SS with our beautiful verandah. I loved all of the crew. Enjoyed every tradition. We've booked that same cat for our upcoming cruise in Jan 07 and were going to book another cruise for July 07 but after reading all of this decided to hold off.

Jeans in the dining room??? 80's rock following passengers around on the Promenade Deck???

 

On our cruise last Jan 06, I can remember taking a nap on a lounge chair on the Promenade Deck whilst gazing at the ocean. I guess I can kiss that goodbye or perhaps HAL would suggest we stay in our room for the length of the cruise.

 

Just for the sake of demographic I'm in my 50's. Hardly ready for a nursing home, but after the hustle and bustle of daily activities I'd like a break from the mundane and find the glamour of dressing up for the dining room and seeing my husband in his tuxedo, etc. magical. If all of what we've enjoyed is gone, we're history.:(

 

Grandeur, RCCL Jan 1999

Grand Princess Jan 2004

Millenium - Celebrity Jan 2005

Westerdam - HAL Jan 2006

Westerdam - HAL Jan 2007

[deck chair]

Let me tell you why I will never sail on HAL again after many voyages with the line. My last experience was on the MAASDAM in 2005 for a 35 day cruise round trip from Boston to Northern Europe.

 

It was a fantastic voyage in many respects: The ports were really nice. I loved all the sea days. The crew was great, the service decent enough and the food as expected. My cabin on the lower promenade deck was very nice. I especially enjoyed the room service for breakfast every morning from Kosmas with whom I still keep in touch. The staff at the pursers desk were really outstanding. The lido was great. The promenade deck is great as is the movie theatre.

 

I go on extended voyages to relax in a nice sophisticated environment but what I found on this voayge was discouraging. (And this was no 7 day cruise!)

 

What totally turned me off were the incessant public address announcements about the ship shops, bingo and art auctions. It was so INTRUSIVE. Then you had to put up with the piped in music in in the public lounges. I found out, however, how to turn it off in the ocean bar and fellow passengers seemed relieved to be so rescued from the "music." I was turned off by the art auctioneer turning the ocean bar into his private preserve on sea days with the art stacked up all over the place and one had to be careful not to trip over all that junk. The sailaway party on the aft deck was turned into one big infomercial for the ships shops art auctions and spa. The casino manager even threw fake paper money all over the deck some if it blowing overboard in the Boston harbor trashing the water. It was disgusting. The ships ships taking over the space outside their retail space cluttering it up. The casino lounge eliminated and the casino with all the clanging expanded to the point you couldn't walk to the dining room without having to walk right by it.

 

I was also totally turned off by the discount bands in the crows nest and ocean bar (with their electronic synthesizers) imported from eastern europe and the phillipines (?) who were not great musicians.

 

I was also turned off by the cost cutting. No mixed nuts except on formal evenings. No caviar. Dover sole just once in 35 days etc. The crew in the dining room stretched thin because of budget staffing. Mariners who got on in Boston were not invited to the mariners party for those who got on for the second leg in Rotterdam etc.

 

I had seriously considered booking the AMSTERDAM for the winter 2006 30 day voyage to the south seas and Hawaii from San Diego. After my experience on the MAASDAM I thought to myself: Never again on a line that has slipped so badly. I was not going to put up with 30 days of crummy musicians and all the rest as described. My fear was that it could even be worse: Hey lets put slot machines on the promenade deck! Lets start playing bingo in the dining room between courses! Lets start having art auctions in the lido at lunch time! Lets no have real musicians, lets just play recorded music!

 

I am only in my 50s with many many more years of cruising left. It would have been nice to spend much of my vacation time with HAL. Given the direction they are going it is clear HAL is no longer a traditional line offering an elegant experience. If you believe thier advertising, I have a bridge I want to sell you.

 

For this coming winter, I have chosen Crystal. That is HAL's loss and I wonder if HAL cares as they blindly race ahead with their misguided plans to cut costs and to "attract families and a younger demographic." Stein Kruse is a fool as he tries to be all things to all people. He will turn off his loyal passengers but never greatly attact the families and "younger demographic" as does RCCL, NCL, Carnival and DISNEY etc who do a superior job with that market. One day you will see sad HAL ships half booked, filled with slot machines and art auctions and the air filled with loud MUZAK and loud announcements about the latest ship's spa offerings. Great job, Stein!!!! Crystal loves you!

 

Any comments welcomed.

 

Deck Chair.

[arabrab]

We've actually left lounges where we'd planned to get drinks because the piped in noise level was too lound to allow a conversation.

 

I'm with those who say that there should be some places where it is quiet, and I'd like to see at least one nice lounge area with no music, or at most, quiet background music of whatever genre. The art of conversation is rapidly lost when six people sitting around a cocktail table can't talk and hear each other.

[amusea]

As I stated in a former post on this subject, the first time the music on the Statendam was so offensive I wrote a long letter to HAL and never had the courtesy of a reply, not even a form letter. In the letter I stated that the suggestion I had for controlling the music and the volume would cost HAL absolutely nothing.

Now, my new suggestion is that perhaps one ship in the fleet could be marketed as a quiet cruise. Amtrak now has quiet cars on their trains between New York and Washington for folks that want to work or sleep.

It should probably be a "no children" cruise as well. Considering the make-up of the typical HAL passenger, I would think the response would be very good, even if it were a usual Caribbean cruise that many had done before. For many of us, the destination is sometimes the ship as well as the itinerary.

[HeatherInFlorida]

I don't see any reason for piped-in music of any kind on any ship on any sea anywhere:) .

 

Thankfully, I certainly didn't hear it on our Oosterdam cruise in 2004 and definitely not on the Summit (Celebrity) in 2005. I can only hope I don't hear any on our upcoming cruises.

 

Stick with the live music in the lounges or on the pool deck and turn off the darn sound system except for daily announcements from the Bridge by the Captain or other important announcements.

 

Why does anyone feel that there has to be constant sound in our ears all the time? If you do, bring your IPod and stick it in your ear. It's just annoying unless I've chosen to listen to it.

[dougnewmanatsea]

Well said, Heather!

 

I vote for no piped-in music. I don't care what kind of music it is. It could be music I like; it could be music I don't like... I just don't want it, period.

 

Live music (as long as it's good) is fine. Recorded music... No thank you. As far as I am concerned there is no reason for any ship to have any recorded music, ever. It serves no purpose but to annoy people.

[uncialman]

C 2 C:

 

I have sent communications to Holland America for the past 10 days while aboard the Oosterdam. I am still on board the Oosterdam ( we arrive in Juneau tomorrow) with my second of two back to back groups that I have on board.

 

Here is where we are on this issue:

 

I had originally complained to Mr. Deering and to the Beverage Manager of the ship. Sadly, the Oosterdam currently only has 2 working DMX channels and the only choices are hard rock and a channel that has a mixture of Pet Shop Boys, Madonna, eighties stuff, Rick James, B52’s etc. Music is loudly playing in the Lido restaurant, lido pools, and 2nd and third deck public areas.

 

The first reply that I received back from the Entertainment Dept. in Seattle was “this is just one guy with a group that is complaining. No one else has complained so we are not changing anything.” Which led to me writing a lengthy email to HAL corporate and sales (which you have seen a small sampling of in my posts).

 

The email I sent HAL resulted in a reply that basically stated that “based on their demographic information, Holland America Line has purchased a DMX package that provides us with a sampling and variety of a very wide range in tastes of music.” This led to a secondly lengthy email from me and my subsequent posting on that a previous Oosterdam cruiser began last week. I received another email from HAL that basically states “we are looking into this but there will be no immediate changes.” (I have been writing this post to the strains of “Hey Now, You’re an Allstar” and “Let’s Get This Party Started”, and “Simply Irresistible” in the Internet café.) The response from HAL also included the statement “The more sophisticated musical tastes that you reference below are generally covered in the pre-dinner cocktail hour venues. Some of the afternoon and post dinner venues will also provide a good place for these tastes” and that “It is our decision that the most appropriate place and time for “middle of the road” music to be played, is the middle of the day around lunch time by the lido pool and buffet area” – which immediately leads me to ask, “which road are you traveling on? Where is the destination?” In my estimation, middle of the road is not pop rock 24/7. Also, telling folks that the only time that they are going to truly enjoy a traditional cruising enviroment is between 7pm and 11pm in the Explorers Lounge tells me that someone is greatly misunderstanding their loyal customer base.

 

Mr. Deering brought this subject up with several Mariners and Group Leaders in his office a few days ago and there was unanimous agreement from all present that the music in the public areas was inappropriate. Mr. Deering forwarded this on to HAL Corporate.

 

Sadly, the entertainment department at HAL has still done *nothing* to make a change. My current group is filled with Mariners and all are rather perplexed as to many of the changes in HAL since their last visit on HAL. Music was the #1 issue of irritation with my passengers - and then being allowed to wear shorts and jeans in the dining room coming in a close second.

 

At this point, I think the only way to have any sort of effectual change take place is to start bombarding HAL with emails, letters, and by letting your voice being heard on this subject on forums such as Cruise Critic. I can easily find myself in agreement with Host Doug in his assessment but I think that the majority of my passengers would accept a musical genre that is more fitting with the “premium cruising” moniker HAL has been touting. Either way, I don’t want to loose the HAL that so many of my customers (Who represent ages from across the spectrum) have come to appreciate and love. However, I don’t care for the “you’ll take it and you’ll like it” attitude that has been represented this week.

 

Pray for my attitude this next week with my customers. I really don’t want my irritation to show outwardly to the groups that I manage. The tough part comes when they complain to me about this issue: I have to really hold my opinion back and give the old “they are working on it” speech. Thankfully, some are working on this; I’m just not sure that anything is going to change.

[happy cruzer]

I know that unc was very patient and tried to work this one out.

 

Does anyone have an idea of how we can help? Is there an address to send concerns to. Either email or snail mail? Can we do a petition?

 

I think this is important. Like I said earlier, I have several marketing mailouts that tout elegance, comfort and tradition but 2 channels of rock and roll played too loud does NOT meet that description. I think a class action suit may result at some point. Can we get the message across before that happens?:(

[HeatherInFlorida]

Uncialman, maybe a lot of the Mariners are just way too nice and not voicing their feelings. I have a feeling that this happens frequently. So HAL is under the impression it's just you.

 

Many people think nothing can be done so they say nothing. But as always the squeaky wheel gets the grease and so it will always be:o .

 

Good for you for sticking to your guns and pursuing this. It may seem a small thing to many, but not to me. Good luck and I hope things take a turn for the better for you and your group.

[C 2 C]

C 2 C:

I have sent communications to Holland America for the past 10 days while aboard the Oosterdam. I am still on board the Oosterdam ( we arrive in Juneau tomorrow) with my second of two back to back groups that I have on board.

Thanks for the update. It is much cheaper to keep a customer happy than to attract a new one. If HAL does not have anyone who understands that marketing truth they are in for a real shock.

I have already emailed HAL about the new approach and will call tomorrow. This is just plain dumb.

[wander]

I wonder if HAL uses different music for different cruise crowds? Somehow I don't see the music described above lasting long on the World Cruise. I would doubt that HAL would even try to use it there, but if the did - the crowd would let them know their displeasure. In my experience, the core WC crowd carry clout beyond what the rest of us do. I think it will be intersting to hear the experiences of folks on some of the upcoming 2 month cruises.

[deck chair]

If you think HAL is just low rent on the shorter cruise please look at my post number 56 which described a 35 day cruise. I forgot to mention: I guess HAL thinks they have nothing to worry about with OCEANIA CRUISES as they go their merry way with all their MUZAK, cost cutting, discount bands, intrusive art auctions and announcments. Stein Kruse who is in charge of HAL and who is responsible for all this, reminds me of the "experts" who got us into Vietnam, Somalia and Iraq. He is going to learn the hard way.......

 

BTW, I just returned from a 24 day voyage round trip from New YOrk on the Queen Mary 2. The only public address announcements were at noon when the captain came on with the position and weather report. CUNARD has confidence that the passsengers know how to read the ships program to find out what is going on. Piped in music was at a minimum and it was low key at worse. They had wonderful real musicians in the Chart room, Queens room Q32, Golden Lion Pub and Commodore lounge.

 

Deck chair

[amusea]

Uncialman -

 

Is there any way to find out if there is an edict about the VOLUME of the music? If the ship's staff has control of the volume why can't they just keep it at a low level until this is worked out? The pool and Lido always seem to be the areas where the volume is the loudest so perhaps they can control it by area. For instance, the Crow's Nest could be a very low volume during the day or perhaps a silent area. There must be some room for compromise so that there is a place both in and outdoors where one can find peace and quiet.

Princess just initiated (Crown Princess) a place near the spa where you pay extra for a lounge chair, waiter service and peace and quiet so there must be some demand for such places.

Thank you for all your concern and action on this matter which affects many of us negatively.

[ejbmorr]

Before I post a rather lengthy post on this subject I do want to take time to thank Mr. Deering, Mr. JP, and Mr. DP at Holland America for looking into this issue and taking the matter seriously. Whether this will have a direct effect upon the decisions of the Entertainment Dept. at HAL corporate is a completely diferent issue.

 

Just to let all of you know, HAL is reading and looking at this thread. So, if you would like to let your opinions be known, please feel free to do so. I can rest assure you that Holland America Line will listen to us on this issue *if* we can remain civil and intelligent in our complaints. Most importantly, we need to give some constructive criticism as to what HAL should do to present a fully-orbed premium product. I honestly hope that we can help contribute to HAL remaining a traditional premium product.

With just a little over 100 days on HAL ships, I am certainly not the one who will be most listened to, but I do want to register my opinion here. I also would like to say that NO piped in music would get my vote. I searched for a classical music station on the radio in our cabin on our last HAL cruise and could not find one. That was disappointing too. I think that the idea would be to offer a selection of in-cabin stations that could be listened to without disturbing the rest of the passengers in the way that pop music in public areas does. There, my opinion now on record too.

[NoNoNanette]

It appears as though HAL has done wonderfully.

 

They've captured a new audience/cruiser. :)

 

They've "lightened things up" music-wise.;)

 

I'll venture to say that HAL has found it's "bottom line". It's no longer the "old crowd". Apparently, they're reaching out to others.

 

Way Kewl :D

[ejbmorr]

NoNoNanette- I think I get the humor you intended in your reply above. The smileys helped me to realize what you were trying to convey so nicely. Our kids grew up with earbuds attached and really can't stand silence. "Way Kewl" is the right expletive! Choice in music is the point, so a variety of piped-in sound might be best offered in the cabin only, leaving live groups in different locations performing various types of quality music or quiet places to listen to the ocean waves and share happy conversation undisturbed.

....Just thinking about it makes me wish I was sitting out by the aft pool right now with the sea and the sky and good friends. Mmmmmm!

[HeatherInFlorida]

Well .... :) ... just a personal observation, but sometimes I really think the inmates are running the asylum when it comes to the "changes" that are called "improvements".

 

I'd love to see the results polling everyone rather than just some focus group they might put together.

 

But that's just me and it's not me they're trying to entice. After all, I may only have 20 years of cruising left in me. What good would I possibly be to them:D ???

[krewzin]

NoNoNanette- I think I get the humor you intended in your reply above. The smileys helped me to realize what you were trying to convey so nicely. Our kids grew up with earbuds attached and really can't stand silence. "Way Kewl" is the right expletive! Choice in music is the point, so a variety of piped-in sound might be best offered in the cabin only, leaving live groups in different locations performing various types of quality music or quiet places to listen to the ocean waves and share happy conversation undisturbed.

....Just thinking about it makes me wish I was sitting out by the aft pool right now with the sea and the sky and good friends. Mmmmmm!

 

I think what Nanette is meaning to convey was the fact that she's happy HAL is disappointing it's loyal customer base ...for whom she has expressed distaste of her own.

[the2ofus]

As many of us have voiced our distaste for ambient music on HAL ships, I think we have forgotten an important element. The poor crew members have to listen to this stuff 24/7/365 ad nauseum! Can anyone else forsee a rash of mutinys on DAM ships? (Or maybe we could just tip well enough to cause a rash of mysterious malfunctions to the sound systems?:eek: )

[HeatherInFlorida]

I think what Nanette is meaning to convey was the fact that she's happy HAL is disappointing it's loyal customer base ...for whom she has expressed distaste of her own.

 

I tend to think you're right. Could be mistaken, of course, but I didn't get the feeling Nanette was joking. I took the smilies to mean she's happy with the changes.

 

But that's a little confusing for me, too, (and again I could be wrong) but I don't think Nanette has cruised on HAL yet.

[MrsMuir]

I'm supposed to be working right now, but I can't let this thread go on any longer without chiming in with my total agreement on the piped-in music issue. I am VERY aware of ambient noises; even the pitch of a fan left on can drive me nuts. If I had to listen to heavy metal for longer than five minutes, especially on a cruise that I'd worked so hard for and anticipated for a year, I would be devastated and angry. Better to have no music at all. What's wrong with the sounds of the sea and the soft throbbing of the engines? HAL, please LISTEN TO YOUR CUSTOMERS.

 

Mrs Muir

[RuthC]

Princess just initiated (Crown Princess) a place near the spa where you pay extra for a lounge chair, waiter service and peace and quiet so there must be some demand for such places.

Now there's an idea for the bean counters! Pipe that God-awful music all over most public areas---at a far too loud volume, too---then charge extra for a quiet place. :rolleyes:

Then watch the profits soar. :eek:

Jane, I'm not certain that the stewards working the various areas don't like the music. I remember one cruise where it was fairly unobtusive in the Lido in the morning, but by afternoon the station had changed and the volume was up, up, up.

The station choice and volume can be controlled in different areas. Many's the time that it's been on (and loud-ish) in the Ocean Bar as we gathered for Trivia. The crew staff running the game would arrive and turn it off/down. I've had my request for channel changes by the Lido pool accommodated.

I think what Nanette is meaning to convey was the fact that she's happy HAL is disappointing it's loyal customer base ...for whom she has expressed distaste of her own.

Agreed.

but I don't think Nanette has cruised on HAL yet.

That is what she has posted.