Celebrity vs. Princess Management Styles

[sandy1020]

Just an observation. My sister-in-law was on the Crown Princess when it listed, with one and a half sea days left. The Crown Princess went back into port in Cape Canaveral and my sister-in-law spent the last day and a half on the boat in C.C. Princess paid for their trip back to New York, re-imbursed the entire cruise within 3 weeks and have offerd them 25% off their next cruise.. She can't wait to go again inspite of the scary list. We were on the Summit to Alaska in May during which 2 ports were cancelled, two important scenic highlights were essentially aborted. During the 13 days on the

Summit, management was not forthcoming and and many passengers were treated in a shabby and unprofessional manner. (The details can be found on other posts ad infinitum) We were treated to $200.00 per cabin freebie and a future cruise credit worth approximately one third of what you paid for your cabin, which will have to be used within 18 months, only in North America, and not good at all times of the year.(Fairly restrictive) I'm not sure that with those restrictions many people will be able to, or desire to(irregardless of the future cruise credit) to sail again with Celebrity. Princess had the opportunity to show that they were willing to take responsiblity for a problem with the cruise boat and in doing so showed excellant public relations and scored a lot points with the cruising population., and at the same time showed the public that they value their clientele. Celebrity used a different marketing strategy, and in doing so, aliented a lot of people. In todays competive climate, you cannot afford to do this.

[cruiser2004]

Sandy1020, Thanks Sandy1020 for you well thought out post.

We were on the roll call, with you, for the May 7 Summit cruise and also on that cruise. We and many others feel the same way as you do about how everything was handled. There is a huge difference between the two styles of management. We would love to talk to you again. Please contact me by email.

[C 2 C]

Five years ago I was on Princess when I had my personal incident. While eating an all grain roll on our first day I bit down on something that split a molar from top to bottom. All our tablemates heard the snap. I filled out all the forms, had my tooth pulled when I got home, had a bridge made while waiting for correspondence. The letter I received from Princess: "What do you want, someone to pick all the seeds off your roll?" Yeh right, Princess is a real class act.:rolleyes: Staff were nice and concerned while I was onboard... not so once you're off the ship.

I think all the cruiselines are the same... they're great when it suits them.

 

Crown Princess when it listed

This incident was the result of negligence and was safety related. Unfortunately, M-class ships have a tendency to break down but they do not involve accidents. I will not apologize for Celebrity because I think they should have done more. But in my case, Princess is just as bad. Once you are wronged by a company all you can do is take your money elsewhere. I believe every incident causes passengers to switch one cruisline to the right.

Many Princess passengers reading about fires and poor seamanship on two occasions will move to replace the passengers who did not like sailing slowly in west coast waters onboard Infinity... Infinity pax will move to Princess and so on..

May we all find the perfect cruiseline somewhere..

[Charles4515]

Five years ago I was on Princess when I had my personal incident. While eating an all grain roll on our first day I bit down on something that split a molar from top to bottom. All our tablemates heard the snap. I filled out all the forms, had my tooth pulled when I got home, had a bridge made while waiting for correspondence. The letter I received from Princess: "What do you want, someone to pick all the seeds off your roll?" Yeh right, Princess is a real class act.:rolleyes: Staff were nice and concerned while I was onboard... not so once you're off the ship.

I think all the cruiselines are the same... they're great when it suits them.

 

Well. Last two weeks ago Tuseday I was eating something not particularly hard and a chunk of my molar split. Requires a crown, very expensive dental work. My dentist said it happens. He sees it all the time. The tooth probably was cracked and it was just a matter of time. Your tooth was probably already cracked. Mine could have split the week before when I was on Crown Princess but it was luck it did not happen then.

[C 2 C]

The tooth probably was cracked and it was just a matter of time.

No cracks in this one. No matter what the state of the tooth and its eye popping crack at the table. A crack does not lead to a vertical split to the root but usually a break of the enamel.. I resented the response from Princess... They could have simply said stuff happens instead of the insulting reply about picking off the seeds..

[cruiser2004]

If Princess sailed the same ships that had the same exact problems 14 times, as Celebrity continues to do, and did not make a permanent fix, I would agree that their is no difference in the management styles. The example given above of no injuries from pod problems so far is true, but most serious accidents are caused by a series of unlikly events that work together to cause a major problem. While highly unlikely, I sometimes wonder what would happen if both pods failed at the same time.

I am sure there are many horror stories out there from all cruise lines, even the luxury lines such as Crystal, but no matter how many horror stories appear on these boards, at the end of the day, there is just no excuse for the way Celebrity Corporate appears to be addressing many customer concerns.

[woodofpine]

Sorry C2C, based on the facts and demeanor you express, I'm 100% with Princess on your claim.

 

X provides a great cruise experience when all goes well top drawer. But I've experienced first hand X problem 'solving' management style, "Yes we screwed up big - very big! But we are sorry, we can do nothing about it [NOT] Yes, it is our fault but we are quite busy, and we are sorry. Are we not gracious? We are so so sorry!"

 

At GC, I've seen comparative X-Princess crew organization and seamanship. I was on Summit, Grand P. moored immediate adjacent. No comparison. Such that when the fire occurred on Star, one of my first reactions was, 'Lucky that didn't happen on an M-ship!'.

 

Sure the Crown list was prime officer screw up, but have you read about how Zenith got dents in her hull? Most ship's captain don't consciously decide to sail into a hurricane (when other lines facing same choice stayed in port).

[rebeccalouise]

I think in this discussion everyone is right. No ships should continue to sail with known defects. I think that Celebrity should have put the ship with the pod problem in drydock and that Princess should put Crown in drydock. I have been following that story closely and there are many problems with Crown since the list and Princess doesn't seem to care.

[Desertbelle]

Don't think that dry docking solves problems. Our huge problem with Princess was with a ship with a broken engine that just came out of dry docking.

 

The Dawn had been having problems for several months and went into a 21 day dry dock to repair a broken engine. We were concerned about the engine and we and our TA contacted Princess about it. We were told that the ship would be in perfect working condition when our cruise started.

 

A few days after final payment we were informed that the new engine would need a "breaking in period" and that 2 of our ports would be canceled and 2 would be shortened due to the engine being unable to go at top speeds. Not only did they lie to us, they continued to do the same thing to those people cruising after us. Not until AFTER final payment was anyone told the bad news about the missing and shortened ports. Our compensation was $100 a person shipboard credit, period, not a thing more.

 

The part about customer service that got to me was that they wouldn't let us out of the cruise without taking a huge financial hit (there were 8 of us) and they wouldn't let us switch to the Sun Princess, which had cabins available and left the day before our scheduled cruise from the same pier, nor would they let us book a different cruise for another time. We book cruises for the ports and this was a huge disappointment for us. One customer service woman told me I was being a "big baby" about it and that sea days are better than port days anyways.

 

Funny how Princess decided not to tell people about this problem until after final payment. I hardly think that with all the engineers and technicians involved in this engine repair that no one knew there would be a breaking in period until after final payment.....five cruises in a row!! :confused: I have it in writing from Customer Service that the ship would be "in like new condition" after the dry docking.

 

The cruise itself was horrible too. The crew, after getting a lot of new staff and being on vacation for 3 weeks was in chaos. The food was the worse of any cruise we have ever been on....even the waiters apologized for the terrible food. The shows were so crowded we only got to see one show in 10 nights. The internet connection, including TV reception and ship to shore phoning, was completely out for the first 7 days. Our bathroom toilets didn't flush most of the time. Parts of the ship were not available for use because of the dry docking......hot tubs were broken, the swimming pool was close at times, the laundry rooms had broken washers and dryers, some decks had sections blocked off because of torn up flooring. In a word, the ship was a mess. I have never seen such confusion getting off the ship in ports, the staff didn't seem to have a clue. In one of the ports that we arrived late in, it took some people almost 2 hours to get off the ship. Many of the excursions were canceled and a lot of people never got to their excursions on time. My husband's scuba diving excursion was shortened and a few people never got there, and they refused to refund any of the cost of the excursion. The people who didn't make the excursion were told it was their fault for not getting off the ship on time. And this was a docked port, not tendered. I could go on and on about the problems.

 

When we returned, our letters of complaints, both email and US mail, went unanswered!

 

So, whether or not anyone thinks we were treated unfairly, I feel we were lied to and treated badly. The majority of the people on the ship were unhappy, and you could feel the tension. It's hard to truly relax when you have a couple of thousand people grumbling all the time.

 

We made the best of it, after all this was my daughter and her family's first cruise. But, it will be a very long time before I ever trust Princess again with my vacation dollars...if ever.

 

I am not saying that Celebrity isn't capable of such a problem, but when I read of the compensations that people have gotten when there has been a problem with one of the pods or other situations, it seems that Celebrity wins, hands down, over Princess.

 

P.S. I am sorry C 2 C, even I, someone who truly dislikes Princess, don't think you had any complaint with Princess. A cracked tooth can happen to anyone, anytime. Princess wasn't neglectful in having seeds on their bread. I am surprised you expected them to take care of it for you.

[caviargal]

Crown Princess is a brand new ship and was getting lots of press. The list was due to an error on the part of a junior office. People were hurt, some very badly.

 

While the continued pod problems need to addressed, IMO these are different situations entirely. If the list was not so widely publicized, I doubt Princess would have been as generous. It was in their best interest.

 

I have had bad experiences with X customer service so I am not defending them. This particular comparison is apples to oranges.

[C 2 C]

I have had bad experiences with X customer service so I am not defending them. This particular comparison is apples to oranges.

More like apples to lemons.;) but not defending them either.

 

I'm going to quote Andy from a similar thread...

If the Cruise industry ever slows down, Celebrity will regret some of the current decisions they are making, as the people they are disappointing, will not forget these decisions.

[rebeccalouise]

I had the same problems with Princess and they have lost me as a customer. After the list I asked if I could switch to another ship or get a refund toward a future cruise because I was astonished that Princess would sail only 2 days after disembarking their injured passengers. The subsequent passengers experienced A/C problems, sewage problems, broken elevators, leaky ceilings, musty carpets, broken railings, etc. These problems are not all "safety" hazzards but this is not what I expected from a brand new ship. I cancelled the cruise and got only a 25% refund.

Knowing what I know now, I don't really care if they had given me credit toward a future cruise. I wouldn't have used it.

Celebrity is still in my good graces. I hope my 6th cruise in April (Century) and my 7th cruise in July (Millenium) are as great as the last 5!

[woodofpine]

To all the big lines, and I'm not sure we're any different to small ones.

 

That said, the cuiselines are often more generous responding with credits to certain ship-wide complaints than land based resorts are when calamity arises... The problem is the inflexibility that comes from their having the money in advance. It's not like a land resort where if you get your hackles up you can cancel or check out. But that aspect will not ever change.

[Charles4515]

I think in this discussion everyone is right. No ships should continue to sail with known defects. I think that Celebrity should have put the ship with the pod problem in drydock and that Princess should put Crown in drydock. I have been following that story closely and there are many problems with Crown since the list and Princess doesn't seem to care.

 

What problems? I was on Crown Princess August 25 and there were no issues. A wonderfull ship, crew and a wonderfull cruise. My 22nd cruise and one of my best. Can't think of any reason for the Crown to go to drydock.

[rebeccalouise]

I was scheduled to go on the Crown on August 7 and was prepared to sail her but when I spoke with Princess regarding the Crown- I questioned how Princess could go back into service so quickly. The list was on th 18th of July and all the passengers were not disembarked until the 20th. They planned and did sail on July 22nd. It was just business as usual. I felt that in light of the serious incident with the vessel that there would be problems to fix- wet carpets being the most minor and perhaps functional problems with elevators, A/C. septic-not to mention the scared and overworked crew members. I felt that Princess was not taking the time needed to fix these issues. There were complaints about these issues on the Princess board.

I am glad that you had a great cruise though and I certainly hope that future passengers don't have the A/C. sewage problems, etc.

Since Carnival bought Princess I have seen a change in the line. In 1996 and in 1997 I sailed the original Crown. It was lovely. Then I went on Sapphire in 2005 and was disappointed. My parents in particular said they were done cruising after that. I still love cruising but am not impressed with Princess at all.

[mafig]

I believe the Crown sailed because the Coast Guard gave them the OK.

 

Didn't you cancel that cruise on the Crown when you were in the penalty phase and didn't you lose all your $. I remember from the Princess boards you were trying to get Princess to refund your $.

[Charles4515]

I was scheduled to go on the Crown on August 7 and was prepared to sail her but when I spoke with Princess regarding the Crown- I questioned how Princess could go back into service so quickly. The list was on th 18th of July and all the passengers were not disembarked until the 20th. They planned and did sail on July 22nd. It was just business as usual. I felt that in light of the serious incident with the vessel that there would be problems to fix- wet carpets being the most minor and perhaps functional problems with elevators, A/C. septic-not to mention the scared and overworked crew members. I felt that Princess was not taking the time needed to fix these issues. There were complaints about these issues on the Princess board.

I am glad that you had a great cruise though and I certainly hope that future passengers don't have the A/C. sewage problems, etc.

Since Carnival bought Princess I have seen a change in the line. In 1996 and in 1997 I sailed the original Crown. It was lovely. Then I went on Sapphire in 2005 and was disappointed. My parents in particular said they were done cruising after that. I still love cruising but am not impressed with Princess at all.

 

From your words I gather you did not believe Princess that the ship was going to be shipshape and were unhappy they would not let you cancel without penalty based on your opinion. However the ship was ready to sail, they were right. I think you made the wrong choice in canceling as it is a great ship and I have it booked again for the end of November for my 24th cruise. My 23rd cruise will be on Zenith next Saturday. If there ever was a ship that needs a refresh that is the one. Celebrity has not done what needs to be done they are letting it slide. Probably because they might transfer/sell it like with Horizon. I was on it this past May and there is lot's of stuff that needs to be done. Still I have booked cause I love Bermuda and a good deal to Bermuda. I will live with the somewhat dated and frayed Zenith because of that!

 

As far as Princess, I have been on Princess both before and after the Carnival takeover. I have not seen much change in the line, Carnival has pretty much left it alone except now they stop at some Carnival sponsored ports like Grand Turk and use other Carnival facilities. Never been disappointed on Princess and they have outdone themselves with the impressive Crown Princess. Everyones experiences are different but I have had more issues with Celebrity although they were minor issues, and I will happily cruise again on either Celebrity or Princess.

[caviargal]

From your words I gather you did not believe Princess that the ship was going to be shipshape and were unhappy they would not let you cancel without penalty based on your opinion. However the ship was ready to sail, they were right. I think you made the wrong choice in canceling as it is a great ship and I have it booked again for the end of November for my 24th cruise.

 

While I respect that fact that you personally considered the ship fine to sail, Princess should have been more flexible in offering refunds after that incident. I was booked on Crown for December and cancelled right before the list actually, based on factors like size and # of passengers, too many extra charge venues on board, etc. I have no regrets and also no plans to cruise on Crown in the future.

 

Reviews on the Crown continue to be very mixed so apparerntly not everyone that has sailed considers it a "great" ship. Sewer smells, A/C problems, insufficient elevator banks for the size of the ship, show lounges that cannot accomodate the # of passengers aboard, poorly designed buffet area, it and misses with food and service, etc. are not things that all passengers would consider "great". One man's trash is another's treasure after all.:)

 

I think Rebecca made exactly the right decision for her personally and, in the end, that is all that matters.

[Charles4515]

While I respect that fact that you personally considered the ship fine to sail, Princess should have been more flexible in offering refunds after that incident. I was booked on Crown for December and cancelled right before the list actually, based on factors like size and # of passengers, too many extra charge venues on board, etc. I have no regrets and also no plans to cruise on Crown in the future.

 

Reviews on the Crown continue to be very mixed so apparerntly not everyone that has sailed considers it a "great" ship. Sewer smells, A/C problems, insufficient elevator banks for the size of the ship, show lounges that cannot accomodate the # of passengers aboard, poorly designed buffet area, it and misses with food and service, etc. are not things that all passengers would consider "great". One man's trash is another's treasure after all.:)

 

I think Rebecca made exactly the right decision for her personally and, in the end, that is all that matters.

 

The reason I think she made the wrong decision is because it was her opinion that the ship needed to go to drydock and also because she took a penalty because of that. It did not nor does it need a drydock.

 

It is true that sometimes you wonder if people were on the same ship who have issues but since I was with a group that had cabins all over the ship I can report none had any major issues with the Crown Princess. Food and service were excellent. Our experience was in line with the editor of Cruise Critic Carolyn Spenser Brown who's review is linked to on the Cruise Critic home page. You might want to take a look. She gives Crown Princess a high rating.

[caviargal]

 

It is true that sometimes you wonder if people were on the same ship who have issues but since I was with a group that had cabins all over the ship I can report none had any major issues with the Crown Princess. Food and service were excellent. Our experience was in line with the editor of Cruise Critic Carolyn Spenser Brown who's review is linked to on the Cruise Critic home page. You might want to take a look. She gives Crown Princess a high rating.

 

I read Carolyn's daily blog as well as her final review. I very much enjoyed reading her review but she is still just an individual person with her own tastes and opinions. While you and she might have found service to be "excellent" I have read just as many reviews from cruisers who do not agree.

 

The fact that most of the balconies are not private is a total turn off to me, yet many Princess fans are fine with this as well. We all have our own criteria for makes a cruise "great".

 

There are many ships to which Carolyn and other editors have awarded a far higher rating that I could possibly imagine after having sailed on them myself. It is all highly subjective. I have been on many cruises where others were simply thrilled with the overall experience and I would have gladly disembarked at the first port of call.

 

I cannot offer an opinion, as I have not cruised on Crown. But I will continue to choose based on my personal preferences to hedge my bets.:)

[Captain Cosmo]

The fact that most of the balconies are not private is a total turn off to me, yet many Princess fans are fine with this as well. :)

 

Hi Caviargal - I'm not familiar with the Crown so I was curious about the balconies - they're not private? No Dividers or ???

[rebeccalouise]

I just wanted Desertbelle to know that I too had problems with customer relations on Princess and if I ever have such poor customer relations on Celebrity- I might not cruise them either. So far, so good.

[rebeccalouise]

I believe the Crown sailed because the Coast Guard gave them the OK.

 

Didn't you cancel that cruise on the Crown when you were in the penalty phase and didn't you lose all your $. I remember from the Princess boards you were trying to get Princess to refund your $.

 

Yes, I asked for a refund or a credit toward a future cruise. Obviously, I preferred a refund if possible. The list happened only a few weeks before my scheduled cruise. I initially called Princess because I thought that the ship might not be ready in time for my August 7th departure and wanted to make alternate arrangements (since I had taken this week off work). That's when they said it was sailing on July 22nd. I thought that was odd and got a bad feeling. I was in the penalty phase and I was entitled to only 25% back.

No Princess didn't have to do anything special for me and I don't have any loyalty toward them either. I only booked the Crown because it was new and sailed out of New York. The Sapphire was just ok- so when this happened with the Crown- I really had just decided Princess wasn't for me anymore. Live and learn.

[cruiser2004]

Just an observation. My sister-in-law was on the Crown Princess when it listed, with one and a half sea days left. The Crown Princess went back into port in Cape Canaveral and my sister-in-law spent the last day and a half on the boat in C.C. Princess paid for their trip back to New York, re-imbursed the entire cruise within 3 weeks and have offerd them 25% off their next cruise.. She can't wait to go again inspite of the scary list. We were on the Summit to Alaska in May during which 2 ports were cancelled, two important scenic highlights were essentially aborted. During the 13 days on the

Summit, management was not forthcoming and and many passengers were treated in a shabby and unprofessional manner. (The details can be found on other posts ad infinitum) We were treated to $200.00 per cabin freebie and a future cruise credit worth approximately one third of what you paid for your cabin, which will have to be used within 18 months, only in North America, and not good at all times of the year.(Fairly restrictive) I'm not sure that with those restrictions many people will be able to, or desire to(irregardless of the future cruise credit) to sail again with Celebrity. Princess had the opportunity to show that they were willing to take responsiblity for a problem with the cruise boat and in doing so showed excellant public relations and scored a lot points with the cruising population., and at the same time showed the public that they value their clientele. Celebrity used a different marketing strategy, and in doing so, aliented a lot of people. In todays competive climate, you cannot afford to do this.

 

Sandy, Since this thread seems to have a lot of stories I would like to tell what my experience was with Celebrity management. After missing over 1/2 the Itinerary this May, because of a defective design problem in the ship, while talking to Celebrity customer service I was told to read my cruise contract paying special attention to contract rule #3. Well I did go and read my cruise contract and I was astounded! I know I will be jumped on for not reading my cruise contract thoroughly, but come on, who reads every contract for everything that they do! I felt if you were dealing with a company that purports itself to be a premium cruise line they would treat me fairly. Had I read all of my last Internet contract, I would still be reading! Anyway, I was shocked when I read the following: "NO UNDERSTANDING OR WARRANTY SHALL BE GIVEN OR SHALL BE IMPLIED AS TO THE SEAWORTHNESS, FITNESS OR CONDITION OF THE VESSEL OR ANY FOOD OR DRINK SUPPLIED ON BOARD".

I immeaditley checked my last years Princess contract and found NO such excluision in the contract. I did find all of the usual exclusions, but not that one!

Since Celebrity has to know more about the reliability of its own ships than anyone else, I found it quite distressing that Celebrity would find it necessary to put that in their official cruise contract. All the stories from the past, on this thread, can not change what that one simple statement shows about their concern for passengers. Since this is an on-going policy by Celebrity and they continue to this day to sail M-Class ships that admittedly have a design problem this, in my opinion, does make a huge difference in any comparison as to how the two managements show their concern for passengers. In my view, all of the stories from the past can not over shadow what is going on at the present time.

[rebeccalouise]

I agree with you that Celebrity has obviously added that to the contract to deal with the backlash from the pod problem.

I am not justifying this at all.

Seaworthiness is important but I don't think that the pod problem has resulted in injuries like those that occured on the Crown. I am not really that worried about missing ports-since I rarely get off the ship anyway. I do think Celebrity gives onboard credit in these instances.