Saga Rose Greenland Voyager August 2007

[Host Sharon]

Oh well - It seems I won't now be sailing on Ocean Countess as she has been replaced in the Cruise & Maritime fleet by Discovery! So sorry - Ruby, I won't be able to check on your "blue cave" !

 

I just hope we don't meet any such weather as in Donald's pictures - very scary!

[Lois R]

Hi.:).....sorry to interrupt:o....but Donald, not sure if you saw my post

over on your roll call?

Trying to email you but I must have misplaced your address or

it is wrong....It came back undeliverable:(

 

I think you have mine....please drop me a line so I can put it in

my new address book and stuff and I can email you.....

 

Thanks:)

Edited September 7, 2012 by Lois R

[Kapricorn]

Hi.:).....sorry to interrupt:o....but Donald, not sure if you saw my post

over on your roll call?

Trying to email you but I must have misplaced your address or

it is wrong....It came back undeliverable:(

 

I think you have mine....please drop me a line so I can put it in

my new address book and stuff and I can email you.....

 

Thanks:)

 

Hi, Lois! I've received & replied to your message on email ... everything is now back as usual. :cool: Many thanks for sending your query here.

 

Donald.

Edited September 8, 2012 by Kapricorn

[MMDown Under]

I would be interested in how Poland feels now. I visited Gdansk back in the 1970s when it was still under communist rule. The people were lovely and clearly enjoyed having English and US visitors there but I spent much of the visit terrified I would upset a policeman or somesuch and get locked up!

 

Like Ruby I read extensively about the concentration camps (especially the works of Leon Uris) and don't think I would like to visit but admire those who do. It was bad enough standing at the Holocaust Memorial in Boston.

 

Marion - where did you visit in Poland? Did you go to the sites of the death camps? In the 70s and 80s, I read extensively about the Holocaust to attempt to understand why it was allowed to happen. I was deeply disturbed by the reality of man's inhumanity to man altho' I recognize that instances of this nature have occurred since man climbed out of the primordial ooze.

 

There is a film documentary of several hours entitled "Shoah." Much of the filming was done covertly and, in one scene where an old man who was a guard at one the camps was being interviewed, his laughter about the deaths in the showers remains burned, seared into my memory.

 

Because of all this, I feel that I cannot visit the sites of the camps nor Poland. When I go to Cape Town, I will not be visiting Robben Island where Mandela was jailed because all I would do is tear up. While I accept that cruelty exists, I cannot let it get into my mind or it will take months for the memory to go away.

 

What did you see in Poland? And did you go to Robben Island?

 

Ruby

 

Unfortunately, my original response to your queries disappeared when my computer went down, so I gave up for awhile.

 

My visit to Poland was an extended family visit, with a friend who was visiting her Polish relatives for the first time. Her parents had been taken to Germany as teenagers to work during the war. After the war, they emigrated to Australia, without returning to Poland. So you can well imagine the warm and generous hospitality this niece/cousin (and her friend) received. I was mainly an interested observer, as family members all spoke in Polish.

 

We stayed in Szczecin, near Germany and Berlin, and Lodz and nearby rural area. The countryside with its forests, wide open spaces and bright blue sky is beautiful and reminded me of Australia. However, the cities are crowded and ugly because of rows upon rows of apartment blocks, from the communist era, plus lots of graffiti, etc.

 

Surprisingly, what was beautiful were all the well cared for graveyards, with big established trees and lots of greenery, as well as fresh and artificial flowers and lit candles on the graves. Each section had its own bench and equipment to keep the graves clean and tidy.

 

From a western point of view, the people didn't seem to have a great deal, in material things, yet they all said life was so much better now.

 

Poland is an inexpensive country to visit.

 

I didn't feel any political tension, the couple of times I ventured out on my own. Everyone was warm, friendly and helpful.

 

I didn't visit any of the former concentration camps and wouldn't want to. However, like you, I have read a lot about them. The Imperial War Museum in London has a haunting Holocaust Exhibition, as does the Memorial to the Murdered Jews in Europe in Berlin. I only found out that Lodz had the second biggest ghetto, after Warsaw, when I visited the Information Centre at the Memorial.

 

Like you, I have no desire to visit Robbin Island, in South Africa.

 

When I think of Poland, I'll remember lovely warm people, lots of laughter, combined with copious quantities of delicious home made food and home made wine and spirits.

Edited September 10, 2012 by MMDown Under

[Saga Ruby]

I personally know many people who immigrated out of the camps to Oz after the War. I have never known the link from European camp to Oz. How does one walk out of the barbed-wire perimeter of a camp, after years of trying to survive, having no possessions nor money, and wind up in Oz? Were there special transportations available for POWs to Australia?

 

I asked my father and mother why the USA did little to liberate the camps. They got a faraway look in their eyes and replied that FDR repeatedly said that "we have to win the war." They had little to say about the extermination camps.

 

The ship with refugees that arrived on the coast of the USA, was required to stand off the coast of Miami, then turned away to Europe - was that the tragedy of the St. Louis? This was another war-time historical event for which I've never had a satisfactory answer. Perhaps as a war baby, I will never understand.

 

Ruby

[MMDown Under]

I personally know many people who immigrated out of the camps to Oz after the War. I have never known the link from European camp to Oz. How does one walk out of the barbed-wire perimeter of a camp, after years of trying to survive, having no possessions nor money, and wind up in Oz? Were there special transportations available for POWs to Australia?

 

I asked my father and mother why the USA did little to liberate the camps. They got a faraway look in their eyes and replied that FDR repeatedly said that "we have to win the war." They had little to say about the extermination camps.

 

The ship with refugees that arrived on the coast of the USA, was required to stand off the coast of Miami, then turned away to Europe - was that the tragedy of the St. Louis? This was another war-time historical event for which I've never had a satisfactory answer. Perhaps as a war baby, I will never understand.

 

Ruby

 

After the war, my friend's parents were liberated from working on the German farms. Then the father worked for the British, whilst her mother had her in Germany. They were given the option to migrate to Australia, another country, or to return to Poland. Migration was arranged by the government. In Australia, they lived in migrant camps until they could save enough money to live independently. Her mother borrowed money from their local priest for a small deposit on a basic house.

 

Example of post war migration records -

http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/snapshots/postwar-migration/index.aspx

 

Life was hard in Australia for migrants, but much harder for those living in Poland, after the war. For the rest of her life, her mother sent clothes home to her family members, sewing money into the hems, etc.

Edited September 16, 2012 by MMDown Under

[MMDown Under]

"Peter Plowman's book 'Emigrant Ships to Luxury Liners' was published in 1992, and sold steadily until 2004, when supplies were exhausted. Rather than reprint that book, he decided to produce a new book that concentrated solely on the migrant ships that served Australia from 1946 to 1977, as they are still a source of great interest to many people, especially those who travelled on them, and their families. This new book contains many new pictures as well as updated information.

When World War Two ended, the Australian Government was hoping for an influx of 70,000 migrants a years from Britain. In March 1946, an agreement was signed with the British Government, under which the Ministry of Transport would supply a number of older passenger liners to transport Britons wishing to migrate to Australia. It was only when an insufficient number of Britons applied to migrate that the Australian Government began seeking people from Greece and Italy, and then suitable refugees who thronged the displaced persons camps in Europe. On 21 July 1947, the Australian Government signed an agreement with the International Refugee Organisation in Geneva to accept 12,000 displaced persons per year, though this number would greatly increase over subsequent years.

 

In order to move these people, the IRO offered lucrative contracts, and many vessels never designed to carry passengers, or travel vast distances, were quickly refitted with extremely austere accommodation before being sent to ports in Germany and Italy to load up huge numbers of passengers and carry them half way around the world to a new life.

 

The agreement with the IRO ended in 1952, and a new contract was signed with the Intergovernmental Committee for European Migration (ICEM), whose ships were of a better calibre than the IRO vessels had been. Other migrants from Italy and Greece mostly travelled out on the liners of such as companies.

 

Assisted migrant from Britain continued to be transported in old Ministry of Transport vessels until 1957, after which they were carried in the tourist class accommodation of British liners on a regular service to Australia. From 1955 to 1970, the vessels of the Sitmar Line also carried thousands of British migrants to Australia, but then the contract was transferred to the Greek owned Chandris Line. By the mid-19570s, the majority of British migrants were being transported by aircraft, and only 'Australis' was carrying migrants. On 19 December 1977, 'Australis' arrived in Sydney carrying 650 assisted migrants, this being the last migrant voyage to Australia from Britain and Europe."

 

http://www.gould.com.au/Australian-Migrant-Ships-1946-1977-p/rsn010.htm

Edited September 16, 2012 by MMDown Under

[Saga Ruby]

Life was hard in Australia for migrants, but much harder for those living in Poland, after the war. For the rest of her life, her mother sent clothes home to her family members, sewing money into the hems, etc.

 

Thanks so much for this information. Reading the many forms required for immigrants was illuminating. How brave the survivors were to make a new life in a foreign land. But better than remaining in Poland or Germany.

 

I knew that the First Family immigrants were/are heralded as founders of Oz; I did not know that WWII refugees were also welcomed. How very hard it must have been for the refugees of the War to be so far from home with little language skills in the beginning of their new lives in Australia.

 

When I come home from travels in lower-economic countries, I appreciate that the lights come on at the flick of a switch and that potable water comes immediately out of the tap. But when one thinks of the daily challenges for refugees in Oz, or anywhere in the world, it is a sobering reality.

 

Ruby

[Host Sharon]

Indeed - we should all appreciate our blessings, talking of which I will very soon be off for three weeks and a day to the Caribbean so will catch up on everyone's news on my return.

 

Our new book on Oriana and Aurora was also launched last Saturday, so now I can just relax ..... and work on the next one!

 

Bye for a bit.

[MMDown Under]

Indeed - we should all appreciate our blessings, talking of which I will very soon be off for three weeks and a day to the Caribbean so will catch up on everyone's news on my return.

 

Our new book on Oriana and Aurora was also launched last Saturday, so now I can just relax ..... and work on the next one!

 

Bye for a bit.

 

Congratulations on the launch of your latest book on Oriana and Aurora, Sharon. What is your next one?

 

Bon Voyage for your Caribbean Cruise. Wishing you blue skies and calm seas. Have you been to any of the Caribbean islands before?

 

We called at Ponta Delgada in the Azores on a TA, had a private taxi tour, and loved it, as it was so different.

[Saga Ruby]

Congratulations on your latest book launch. It must be very exciting to see book covers and colour photos instead of computer pages.

 

About the Caribbean - has anyone visited Dominica? It is on our list next April and I had never even heard of that island. Had to look it up. By any chance, are you visiting Dominica?

 

It must be wonderful to contemplate so many days at sea, so many exotic islands. Bon chance, bon voyage, Sharon.

 

Ruby

[Host Sharon]

Thanks Marion and Ruby - no I have never been to the Caribbean before - we are calling at Ponta Delgada first - then (in no particular order) Antigua, Tortola, St Lucia, St Maarten and Barbados and then Madeira on the way home so sorry Ruby - although I have heard of Dominica or rather the Dominican Republic as it is a popular holiday destination here, I have never been.

 

Having just had treatment for a Morton's Neuroma in my foot, a tooth abscess last week and now the prospect of the removal of an impacted wisdom tooth (whoever thought of calling them wisdom!) - I cannot wait to relax on deck and think about nothing much!

[MMDown Under]

Thanks Marion and Ruby - no I have never been to the Caribbean before - we are calling at Ponta Delgada first - then (in no particular order) Antigua, Tortola, St Lucia, St Maarten and Barbados and then Madeira on the way home so sorry Ruby - although I have heard of Dominica or rather the Dominican Republic as it is a popular holiday destination here, I have never been.

 

Having just had treatment for a Morton's Neuroma in my foot, a tooth abscess last week and now the prospect of the removal of an impacted wisdom tooth (whoever thought of calling them wisdom!) - I cannot wait to relax on deck and think about nothing much!

 

Wow this is going to be a wonderful cruise for you Sharon, with lots of new ports of call and experiences.

 

I hadn't heard of Morton's Neuroma, but it sounds painful, especially if you want to do a lot of walking.

 

I haven't been to either Dominica or the Dominican Republic.

 

"Dominica’s location is 15 degrees North latitude and 61 degrees West longitude. The island sits midway along the Eastern Caribbean archipelago, just a few miles from Martinique to the south and Guadeloupe to the north. Its official name is the Commonwealth of Dominica, which is mostly referenced in official communiqués and to distinguish the island from its northerly Caribbean sister, the Dominican Republic.

 

Known as “The Nature Island,” Dominica’s tropical rainforests cover two thirds of the island, and are home to 1,200 plant species. Rivers, lakes, streams, and waterfalls abound, fed by the island’s high annual rainfall. Its volcanic physique points to extensive geothermal activity – even underwater. The Morne Trois Pitons National Park was the first UNESCO World Heritage Site in the eastern Caribbean.

 

The island is sparsely populated with 70,000 people inhabiting its 289 square miles. A significant portion of the population lives in and around the capital city of Roseau. About 80% of the population is Roman Catholic. English is the official language, spoken with a melodic French lilt, but a large portion of the population speaks Kwèyòl (Creole), and a few northern villages speak Kokoy."

 

http://www.dominica.dm/

 

Sounds lovely, Ruby.

 

The Dominican Republic lies in the same waters as Cuba and Puerto Rico, taking up the eastern two-thirds of the island it shares with Haiti. Its lush landscape offers caves, Victorian gingerbread houses and pirate lore, plus 900 miles of coastline. Island highlights include riding a cable car up Mount Isabel de Torres and basking on stunning Saona Island. The Dominican Republic is also family-friendly, has just about perfect weather and is affordable.

 

http://www.tripadvisor.com

Edited September 20, 2012 by MMDown Under

[Saga Ruby]

Canberra sailing off with marine band and streamers - ahhhh! Look at Post #10 for an amazing photo.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=21455552#post21455552

 

Sharon - Although you may wobble on to the ship, I am sending all best wishes that you dance the light fantastic coming back down the gangway in Soton. Surely sun, sea, and sand will wash away those medical speed bumps. Have a wonderful Caribbean voyage.

 

Marion - Thanks for the info on Dominica. I was quite surprised to learn that pronunciation of this name is on the second "i" which is opposite to the Dominican Republic pronounced on the first "i." To me, this is a mysterious little island; I look forward to exploring the details and interior of this place.

 

Ruby

Edited September 22, 2012 by Saga Ruby

[Kapricorn]

David and I enjoyed the recent 9-day Alaskan cruise. The weather there was among the finest that I've ever experienced; even the Captain announced that it was the best this year. There were morning fog on the last three days, which usually dissipated by noon. I felt sorry for those who went on tours in the mornings, as they would have seen nothing.

 

Hubbard Glacier was spectacular as usual. The Captain took the ship to .4 of a mile from it, the closest that he had taken his vessel this year. David and I invited two friends to our balcony, where we sipped red wine and enjoyed viewing numerous calvings of the ice.

 

I went to the onboard future sales office and cancelled my May 2013 Alaska cruise, replacing it with a 15-day Hawaiian cruise from San Diego in March 2013. My last such cruise in 2009 was somewhat of a disaster, with inclement weather and norovirus. However, it was beyond the control of the cruise line, so I'm willing to give that itinerary another chance.

 

In the Juneau bookstore I bought two classics: Alexandre Dumas' The Last Cavalier (751 pages) and Fenimore Cooper's The Last of the Mohicans (475 pages). I hope that both of these will be interesting reads.

 

Donald.

[Saga Ruby]

David and I enjoyed the recent 9-day Alaskan cruise.

 

Donald, would you please remind us of which ship you were on? I gather the cruise was a success for David as you have signed up for Hawaii. Which ship?

 

In the Juneau bookstore I bought two classics: Alexandre Dumas' The Last Cavalier (751 pages) and Fenimore Cooper's The Last of the Mohicans (475 pages). I hope that both of these will be interesting reads.Donald.

 

You will certainly have some heavyweight reading for the fall and winter!

 

Ruby

[Kapricorn]

Donald, would you please remind us of which ship you were on? I gather the cruise was a success for David as you have signed up for Hawaii. Which ship?

 

We were on Celebrity Century. I will also be on that ship to Hawaii, sailing solo. David and I expect to cruise together again during 2014, to celebrate his 60th birthday.

 

Donald.

[Saga Ruby]

I will also be on that ship to Hawaii, sailing solo.

Donald.

 

Could you please give us a few details? How many sea days, how much port time AND which ports? I've never sailed to Hawaii but it's gotta be a bunch of sea days until you reach the islands, at which point the ship will probably be doing port-to-port on a daily basis.

 

How long is the cruise? Do you sail out of Vancouver?

 

Ruby

[Kapricorn]

Could you please give us a few details? How many sea days, how much port time AND which ports? I've never sailed to Hawaii but it's gotta be a bunch of sea days until you reach the islands, at which point the ship will probably be doing port-to-port on a daily basis.

 

How long is the cruise? Do you sail out of Vancouver?

 

Ruby

 

The 15-day cruise starts with 5 sea days out of San Diego, then Honolulu, Lahaina, Kailua Kona (includes an evening sail-by Mount Kilauea), Hilo, and 4 sea days before reaching Ensenada, arriving in San Diego the next morning.

 

These nine sea days are a bonus for me. :)

 

Donald.

[MMDown Under]

The 15-day cruise starts with 5 sea days out of San Diego, then Honolulu, Lahaina, Kailua Kona (includes an evening sail-by Mount Kilauea), Hilo, and 4 sea days before reaching Ensenada, arriving in San Diego the next morning.

 

These nine sea days are a bonus for me. :)

 

Donald.

 

Sounds like a wonderful relaxing cruise, Donald.

 

I wish Celebrity Century would return Down Under.

[Saga Ruby]

Guess what?!! I was watching a travel show and they mentioned Sete and the water jousting and the festivities therein. I was so excited! Thanks to Marion, I actually knew what they were talking about! Gee, I'm sorry I'll never see that one. But it was fun being "introduced" to this party on the water. Thanks, MM. By the bye, whither goest on your next travels?

 

Donald - there is an American PBS hour of coverage regarding the wonderful, exciting sights and sites around Kilauea (sp? not enough vowels?). I don't know if your Canadian public TV stations have American travel shows but you might keep an eye out for it - it has a clever title "Kilauea." The documentary particularly discussed the Big K but also the newbie volcanoes arising out of the seabed in that area. Your night-time tour should be quite exciting with great photo ops.

 

[Lightbulb] You could pack asbestos gloves and try to catch a small stone hurled out of the volcano by Madame Pele. Wa-hahaha!

 

Ruby

Edited October 5, 2012 by Saga Ruby

[MMDown Under]

Guess what?!! I was watching a travel show and they mentioned Sete and the water jousting and the festivities therein. I was so excited! Thanks to Marion, I actually knew what they were talking about! Gee, I'm sorry I'll never see that one. But it was fun being "introduced" to this party on the water. Thanks, MM. By the bye, whither goest on your next travels?

 

Donald - there is an American PBS hour of coverage regarding the wonderful, exciting sights and sites around Kilauea (sp? not enough vowels?). I don't know if your Canadian public TV stations have American travel shows but you might keep an eye out for it - it has a clever title "Kilauea." The documentary particularly discussed the Big K but also the newbie volcanoes arising out of the seabed in that area. Your night-time tour should be quite exciting with great photo ops.

 

[Lightbulb] You could pack asbestos gloves and try to catch a small stone hurled out of the volcano by Madame Pele. Wa-hahaha!

 

Ruby

 

Ah, Ruby - Sete and Hawaii, the Big Island - both places I'd love to revisit.

 

I'm currently researching a cruise, as part journey home for my daughter from Toronto to Australia. Not much reasonable choice around in November, however, I'm most excited about a cruise from Singapore to Sydney on Ocean Princess, a smaller ship.

 

Anyone cruised on her, or her sister ship?

 

Or, I could always fly to join her for a holiday in Hawaii, en route. Not a bad second choice!

Edited October 5, 2012 by MMDown Under

[MMDown Under]

How Cruising has Changed

Originally Posted by geocruiser

My first cruise was in the mid 1970’s on Home Line’s Oceanic. Loved that ship! I left out NYC and at times I would see a Princess ship at the pier there (I think I remember the Old Pacific Princess) docked there too. I remember what it was like to sail on Oceanic back then. I would love to know from people who sailed on Princess before 1980 what it was like and how it has changed on Princess.

We also sailed on the Home Line's Oceanic in 1975. It was our 7th Wedding Anniversary and we booked a suite. Will never forget the look on our faces when we saw the bunk beds! Must say the dining experience still is the best we've ever experienced.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1718688

 

 

My original cruises on P&O Chusan and Chandris Lines Queen Frederica in 1969/70, in four berth cabins with three strangers, to and fro London on half world cruises, set the benchmark for cruising for me. It was all about the exotic itinerary.

 

However, my cruise on Angelina Lauro in 1971, in a six berth cabin with five strangers, turned me off cruising for 30 years! Fortunately, the journey home from Perth to Sydney, via the Indian Pacific, reaffirmed my lifetime love of long distance train travel.

 

I still cruise for the itinerary and I'm still happy to cruise in inside cabins, however now I occasionally enjoy more luxury.

 

How has cruising changed for you?

 

I just put this on the Australian thread, and remembered all the wonderful historic cruising experiences/photos shared on this thread.

Edited October 8, 2012 by MMDown Under

[Kapricorn]

Yesterday I finally downloaded the photographs which I took during the Alaska cruise. Here are my four favourites.

 

Sunrise near Sitka

 

 



Morning fog at Icy Strait Point

 



Mountains framed by surface fog and dark clouds

 



Ice in the water from Hubbard Glacier

 

Conald.

[MMDown Under]

Beautiful Alaska photos, Donald.

 

The last one is my favourite.