Saga Rose Greenland Voyager August 2007

[Druke I]

We also sailed on the Westerdam (now a Costa ship), 9-97, Montreal to New York. Yes, she had been "stretched", but in my opinion more successfully than the two NCL ships.

 

We enjoyed the ship very much, and at this late date I don't recall any particular difficulty getting about the ship.

 

While off the coast of Nova Scotia, there was a helicopter medical evacuation, conducted by the Canadian Coast Guard. As always, fascinating to watch.

 

It was fairly choppy that trip down the Atlantic coast to NYC.

 

Another of my old favorites, Crown Odyssey, is scheduled to be stretched when she switches to her new role as Balmoral for Fred.Olsen Shipping. NCL did not do her any favors when they ripped out the indoor swimming pool and cinema to add cabins.

[Kapricorn]

My cruise on the Westerdam was also not uneventful. On a sea day, returning to Vancouver from Alaska, fire broke out in a storage locker on the top deck, beneath the smokestack. Smoke poured out, and some of the crew donned fire gear and battled the flames. Quick action caused speedy resolution, and thus there was no emergency.

 

What I found unusual about the Westerdam was that the top deck, behind the smokestack, was reserved for the crew. I was conscious of them (mostly officers and hotel staff) looking down upon us on the two lower decks, and laughing and talking among themselves. Perhaps they were discussing inconsequential things, perhaps not. I didn't care too much for that situation.

 

D'maniac.

[Conte Di Savoia]

I recall that earlier in this magnum thread both Ruby and Donald mentioned that they had traveled on Canadian Pacific, a company which has a long and distinguished history. Regretfully, I never sailed on any of their ships but have always been fascinated by them. Back in 1962 I sent for a brochure for Empress of Canada’s 1963 winter Mediterranean and Greek Isles cruise, a trip which I did not have the slightest chance of taking due to my youth and obligation to present myself to classes in high school. Nevertheless, I diligently followed the itinerary from February 21,when the ship departed NYC, to its return in late April using the World Book Encyclopedia to learn about each port visited (the 1963 version of a virtual cruise). So, I have a few questions for admiral m’am and Donald. The CP ships were registered in the UK. Were the officers British, Canadian or some combination of these? What about the staff on board? Where were they from? Please tell us something about the ambience of these vessels.

Canadian Pacific bragged that one could travel around the world with them. A traveler could board a CP ship from the UK to Canada, then the CP rail across the continent and board a ship on the west coast and head for the Orient and beyond. The closest I’ve come to this experience is to stay in their chateau hotels. (I’m very upset that they rebranded themselves as Fairmont.) I’ve stayed at the Chateau Frontenac, which is one of my favorite hotels in the world, Banff Springs, Chateau Lake Louise and the Empress in Victoria. They are all very special places and I highly recommend a visit if you haven’t been. Their gift shops do feature Canadian Pacific items, mostly reproductions, but wonderful nevertheless.

There’s more nostalgia to discuss here, e.g. the connection between Canadian Pacific, Carnival, the Italian Line and Hapag Lloyd. More on that later. The picture of Empress of Canada is her departure from Quebec City. I believe the Chateau Frontenac is in the distance off the stern and both the flag of Quebec and the old Canadian flag are on the vessel in the foreground on the lower left.

[Saga Ruby]

Thanks for your note about the Great and Powerful Oz, uh, Canadian Pacific. Following are my memories:

 

When my family sailed on Empress of Britain, my father purposely chose that itinerary out of Montreal so that the first 1,000 miles were on a waterway (the St. Lawrence), rather than the cold, old North Atlantic. My sister is famously motion sick so the object of the game was to minimalize her mal de mer.

 

We made a trip of it from Fort Worth to Montreal and stayed along the way at Chateau Lake Louise. I remember walking far out from the hotel and looking back and, even at that distance, it stood out from the dropdead gorgeous mountain scenery surrounding the hotel. I’ve always meant to go back there, but . . . I had afternoon tea at the Empress Hotel in Victoria on a cruise many years ago.

 

Empress of Britain was solely a British (Canadian?) hotel staff and Bridge staff. The ambience was formal onboard with a warm hospitality extended amongst passengers and staff. We dressed formally for every dinner and were well-dressed during the day. One had social graces deeply ingrained for years and one was expected to use them at all times.

 

My thrill on that crossing was watching the RAF pilots pursue my 15 yr.-old sister and wish I could grow up faster. The pilots seemed old to me - they must have been all of 22 and had been training in Canada. One of the dashing pilots had a scar under his lower lip and, being young and gauche, I asked him what it was. He said that he had fallen off his bike as a young lad and his top front teeth went thru his bottom lower lip. I was horrified!

 

I was bothered by the class system on that particular ship where my family was allowed to roam all corridors, all public rooms, all staircases, whilst the "other" class was limited to certain areas. I do so appreciate the opening up of the classless system onboard ships. Nowadays, it’s the nouveau rich who have the expensive suites, not just Major and Mrs. George Ponson Rickaby-Hackaby.

 

During that 1957 hegira to Europe as a 13 yr.-old, I had no interest in places like Chateau Frontenac, the Baur au Lac in Zurich, the Imperial in Vienna. I wanted to stay in some place jazzy. I learned the "be careful what you wish for" lesson in Córdoba where we stayed at a "modern" hotel and the bathroom toilet had a sanitary paper band around it which, when removed, showed a dead cigarette floating in the water. Now I wish I could afford to go back and stay in those glorious old piles and appreciate the finer things offered by those establishments.

 

Conte, I congratulate you on your well-organized, marvelous maritime collectibles. The quality of your mementoes is on the level of Peter Boyd-Smith’s collection - very impressive. Thanks for sharing, and, when you have the time, I do want to hear about the ancestral lines that connect Canadian Pacific, Carnival, Italian Line and Hapag Lloyd.

 

Ruby

[Kapricorn]

I'm sure that due to union regulations, all the staff on the Canadian Pacific liners were British. I remember that my dining room waiter was Liverpudian.

 

Ruby is correct, in these days we dressed formally for dinner and were well-dressed during the day. Heck, these were the days when we dressed up to go "downtown." Ruby, how did First-Class passengers get in and out of the Third-Class section ... was there any monitoring by the staff? On the Empress of Canada, the gift shop was shared by both Classes, one door on the side being for First-Class and the door on the opposite side for Third-Class. One day, my mother and I were led through the First-Class section in a group for a tour of the bridge. I recall seeing only few passengers in the First-Class Lounge, and I preferred the livelier action in Third-Class.

 

In April 2006, during a New England/Canada cruise, I toured Quebec City and walked through Chateau Frontenac. A most impressive hotel! I could feel an air of history in the lobby, and could imagine head of states, aristocracy and celebrities regally making their way to their suites.

 

D'maniac of Kapricorn.

[dougnewmanatsea]

If we can rewind a few posts... WESTERDAM (II), née HOMERIC, was a very interesting "stretch" case as she was originally designed to be the size she was after the ship. She was designed for the New York-Bermuda run and at the time (early '80s - the ship was finished in 1986), the Bermudian authorities were planning to build new facilities in Hamilton to accommodate longer ships. In the meantime, Home Lines had HOMERIC built with a section "missing" so that she would fit.

 

The Bermudian authorities wound up never building the new facilities in Hamilton. (25 years or so later, it is now being considered again, and in the meantime 2008 will be the first year since the 19th Century that no passenger ships have called at Hamilton, because nobody with small enough ships wants to sail to Bermuda.) HOMERIC stayed her original length until HAL bought Home Lines in 1988. (Or at least, bought both of its ships [the other, the slightly older ATLANTIC, was sold on to Premier]; whether the company itself was acquired seems to be the subject of some debate.) HAL had already pulled out of the Bermuda market in the 1970s and had no interest in returning (and still hasn't), so it dispatched the newly-renamed WESTERDAM back to her builder, Meyer Werft, to have the originally omitted section post haste. The resulting ship became the largest ever owned by HAL, and remained so until the construction of STATENDAM in 1993. WESTERDAM stayed with HAL until 2002 when she moved to Costa, for whom she's now COSTA EUROPA. I know a lot of HAL fans who still miss this ship, and I have always thought she looked very attractive, though in all honesty, I probably would have preferred her in her pre-"stretch" incarnation - smaller is better! 53,000 GT and 1,400 or so passengers is a little on the big size for me.

 

DREAMWARD and WINDWARD are also discussed above at some length. I visited WINDWARD not long before she was stretched and renamed, and thought she was a very nice ship - in many ways too good for NCL. (The late 1990s were not the best time for NCL.) I haven't been on either since the stretch, but reviews have been quite mixed to say the least.

[seabourndt]

really enjoying reading all these posts, i just loved the CORONIA and have just booked a mini cruise on the RUBY in the same cabin as i had on the CORONIA THATS COOL!!! I'D LOVE TIO DO A LONGER CRUISE ON EITHER OF THE SISTERS but its so expensive. give us a review of the greenland cruise please. i so want to come, but unless i win the lottery no hope!

i went to greenland in the 70's i think on a ship called MS DISKO I WONDER IF ASNYONE REMBERS HER AND KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO HER. i sleft on the floor!!!

dave

[Conte Di Savoia]

Conte, I congratulate you on your well-organized, marvelous maritime collectibles. The quality of your mementoes is on the level of Peter Boyd-Smith’s collection - very impressive. Thanks for sharing, and, when you have the time, I do want to hear about the ancestral lines that connect Canadian Pacific, Carnival, Italian Line and Hapag Lloyd.

 

Ruby

 

Thanks for your kind comments, but while I do have "stuff" my collection is nowhere in the same league as what Peter Boyd-Smith has. I'm only able to make use of what I have to create the cyberimpression that I do. When the film Titanic was being researched they went to Boyd-Smith to ask what a typical table setting would have looked like in the First Class restaurant. He had examples of the White Star china of that period. It was recreated for the film. If someone wants to make a movie about the sinking of Andrea Doria, I might be able to help them out.

 

Now, as to the intersecting historical lines between these great companies.

 

Carnival purchased Empress of Canada in 1972 and rechristened her as Mardi Gras and the rest is history. Apparently operating on a tight budget, they only slightly modified the

existing CP funnel logo to what would become their signature design. Here are Mardi Gras (ex-Empress of Canada in the foreground) and Carnivale (your Empress of Britain in the background) in Carnival livery. At the time that Carnival started operation, the Italian Line was winding down. By 1977 they were no longer in the passenger ship business. Many excessed bridge staff and other officers found their way from the Italian Line ships to Carnival ships. Hey, a job's a job.

The Italian Line remained in business as part of the government controlled Finmare group handling cargo only. The last Italian Line vessel I ever saw was a freighter plying the Strait of Juan de Fuca while we aboard a State of Washington ferry going between Vancouver Island and Anacortes, Washington. In 1998 the Italian government privatized the Italian Line and sold it off to an Italian shipping company, D'amico SpA who ran it as a subsidiary until 2002 when it was sold to CP Ships which continued to market it as a separate company operating out of the Mediterranean. In 2005 CP Ships rebranded all of their subsidiaries, eliminating the Italian Line as a separate group. At the end of 2005, CP Ships was bought by TUI, the German company which owns Hapag Lloyd. And so that is where we are today. Presumably all logos and branding resides in some drawer in Germany. The end of the lines!

[seabourndt]

GOT CONFUSED thought the cruise to greenland ws in the future not realizing that you had already done it. loved reading your posts ruby. as i said i ws on ms disko to disko bay maNY YEARS AGO any pictures of the place?

would lovmmy original cabin next june..

dave

[dougnewmanatsea]

Dave, see here for the history of DISKO (in Swedish). Today she is called POLARIS and owned by Murmansk Shipping Company (MSCO). Here is her page on the MSCO web site. Here is her captain's web site, which shows her being boarded by President Putin. Here is a page selling cruises in her.

[Saga Ruby]

GOT CONFUSED thought the cruise to greenland ws in the future not realizing that you had already done it. loved reading your posts ruby. as i said i ws on ms disko to disko bay maNY YEARS AGO any pictures of the place?would lovmmy original cabin next june..dave

 

I do not carry a camera on my trips so no joy about Disko Bay. However, as you know, it is a hauntingly beautiful place. Saga Rose was dead ahead slow as we picked our way thru ice from small shards to huge mountainous bergs as we followed the sea lanes around the Bay. Saga Rose spent several hours there and we listened to an onboard lecturer talk about the varying stages of icebergs which can be understood by colour and dirt.

 

Ironically, with the warming weather, any iceberg "farm" is dangerous because calving is taking place constantly. Having said that, Disko Bay and Cape Farewell Passage in Greenland were by far and away the most tranquil waters we enjoyed on our 18-day cruise. Many cruise passengers have encountered dangerous seas, but I'll put our Saga Rose cruise up against anyone's experiences. The tough part was that it continued for most of the days we were onboard so fatigue was a familiar friend.

 

Where else did you sail on the MS Disko?

 

Ruby

[seabourndt]

we left from sondre stromfjord, julianehab i think, can you give me a few places on the way to disko bay? then we came back to stromfjord. i tried searching fopr the ship disko2 but nothing else. i think she went back to greenland cruising after shearwater.

dave

[Saga Ruby]

we left from sondre stromfjord, julianehab i think, can you give me a few places on the way to disko bay? then we came back to stromfjord. i tried searching fopr the ship disko2 but nothing else. i think she went back to greenland cruising after shearwater.

dave

 

Saga Rose sailed from Dover then on to Cobh Ireland for one day, off to Qaatortoq in Greenland (evidently "toq" means "town"), the next day we cruised Disko Bay, then on to Nuuk where Force 10 winds were settled in. We skipped Nuuk then continued on to Cape Farewell Passage the next day.

 

Did you visit any of these towns? Where did you start and end your voyage on the MS Disko? What is "shearwater?"

 

Ruby

[seabourndt]

i will have to take a look at a map of greenland to check which towns were called ito, there were quite a few. the SHEARWATER was thne name of the ms disko when a company in uk caled noble caledonia were charering her. saw her in dartmouth once, after that not sure what happened to her. shame you don't take camera i could'nrt go anywhere without one. am thinkibng of bdoing BOUDICCA which is doing nuuk,narsarsuaq,nanortalik. not been to any of tghese before.when were yoiu on the ruby last, impressions?

dave

[Saga Ruby]

I was onboard Saga Ruby in June 2005. The itinerary was "Land of the Midnight Sun" which was Dover, parts of the west coast fjords of Norway, then off to Svalbard and the ice pack of the North Pole, back to Norway, Dover. In Svalbard, we observed polar bears for 3 hours in Magdalena Bay; Captain David said that in 6 years of sailing to Svalbard, they had never seen bears. I still find it amusing that we sailed south for 2-3 days to get to the Arctic Circle.

 

As Conte says, you never forget your first time, so Saga Ruby is still a slight favourite with me. On Saga Rose, we carry a cabin key AND a swipe card, on Saga Ruby we have only a swipe card. That’s how little the differences are. I must caution you about the inside cabins on Saga Ruby on Main Deck - they are the tiniest cabins I have personally seen. I lucked out and was moved to a Cat D large room across the hall but will never again stay in an 11 sq.-meter cabin. My cabin on Saga Rose was huge and is my personal favourite.

 

Saga Rose has a memorable staircase into the Grand Dining Room, Saga Ruby has a walk-in room so the impact of a generous space is missing. In the two years between Rose and Ruby, I had to smile on Rose to see that, in the nicest kind of way, nobody walked past the maitre d' or headwaiter into the GDR without using one of the hand washers on either side of the glass doors. I applaud their efforts to keep the norovirus at bay.

 

The service on both ships is outstanding and the entertainment is quite good. I would be happy to sail again on either Saga Sister. Literally all the Brits talked about liking Fred. Olsen but they simultaneously said that they prefer Saga, the difference, of course, being price and service. You do, indeed, get what you pay for.

 

The Brits onboard Saga Rose were talking positively about Boudicca; some few had been on her but many wanted to do a voyage because they like Fred.Olsen. Ironically, when Saga Rose docked in Dover, the Boudicca had gotten into port first and it was quite the squeeze of passengers, luggage, and taxis. Saga and Boudicca both use the Victorian Cruise Terminal but we had to disembark from Saga Rose using a side staircase and did not get to see that beautiful old Terminal. Sniff.

 

When do you sail on Saga?

 

Ruby

[Kapricorn]

I was bothered by the class system on that particular ship where my family was allowed to roam all corridors, all public rooms, all staircases, whilst the "other" class was limited to certain areas.

Ruby

 

Hi, Ruby! On ocean liners in these days, the different Classes were kept apart by bulkheads, locked doors, stairways and the ubiquitous "First Class Only" signs. It was practically impossible for Third Class passengers to access the First Class section. How were First Class passengers able to roam elsewhere despite these barriers (and to regain access to First Class)?

 

D'maniac of Kapricorn.

[Conte Di Savoia]

How were First Class passengers able to roam elsewhere despite these barriers (and to regain access to First Class)?

 

D'maniac of Kapricorn.

We are all equal in the eyes of God. On the Italian Line the three classes converged in the chapel which had separate entrances for each class. This was the easiest way to move from class to class. The theatre was also a place where we could come together as one. On Leonardo da Vinci the classes had separate viewings of the films but on Michelangelo and Raffaello the First Class passengers sat in the balcony and Cabin and Tourist Class passengers were on the lower level. Most passengers were also unaware that some of the doors which accessed stairwells between classes were kept unlocked and therefore accessible. Us teens explored these hidden passages. I do remember that occasional Tourist Class passengers were found wandering through the First Class ballroom. That they were not in formal dress was the give-away and they would be escorted back to their proper digs.

I traveled only once on board France. The easiest way to transition between classes was through the Au Printemps store which was shared by both First and Tourist Class passengers.

P.S. Thanks to Donald and Ruby for providing their CP recollections.

[Druke I]

The first time I sailed on Oriana, Jul 64, she was sailing as a two class ship, under the Orient Lines flag, still with corn yellow hull, just before the merger with P&O.

 

We were in a 1st class "Court cabin", but it was fairly simple to pass between the 1st and 2nd class sections of the ship. At this late date, I don't recall how we did it, but do recall exploring most of the ship.

 

The 2nd time we sailed on Oriana, Dec 70, she was a one class ship, white hulled, with P&O's yellow funnel.

 

Sh was a lovely ship in her day, but not quite as popular as her running mate, Canberra.

[Saga Ruby]

Back in the day, it worked on ships because people actually read and obeyed signs on doors. That concept has long since gone up the chimney which is why we now have "Do not open door or alarm will sound" - and it does.

 

On Empress of Britain, if a passenger were wrongfully wandering in a first class section, the stewards would brightly say, "Sir! Can I help you?" The ships were small enough that stewards quickly knew where everyone "belonged" or they asked for a cabin number and "directed" passengers to their deck.

 

There were many possibilities for tweaking the class system onboard liners but, in generalities, it was quite effective for separating the Haves from the Have Nots - the latter group many times going on to become the next generation of millionaires.

 

Ruby

[Kapricorn]

On Empress of Britain, if a passenger were wrongfully wandering in a first class section, the stewards would brightly say, "Sir! Can I help you?" The ships were small enough that stewards quickly knew where everyone "belonged" or they asked for a cabin number and "directed" passengers to their deck.

Ruby

 

I imagine that while Third Class passengers are challenged by stewards in First Class quarters, First Class passengers are allowed free run of Third Class quarters without being directed back to their section?

 

On the Empress of Canada, as I said, both classes shared the gift shop (I still have the deck of cards which I purchased there, though it's now worn and faded). The saleslady, if not too busy, would be able to keep an eye open for passengers attempting to exit through the wrong door.

 

D'maniac.

[Saga Ruby]

To Conte: Did you find the prices onboard Saga for wine and spirits to be inexpensive? It seemed to me that the daily "drink of the day" was reasonably priced but then again, what do I know?

 

And I’m curious to know your "hindsight" opinion about the 50+age rule of passengers onboard. It has never bothered me to be around "older" people, and now I is one. Most of the time back in the 70s and 80s, as I was taking 14-18 day cruises thru the Panama Canal or wherever, the median passenger age on the ship would be in the 70s because the senior brigade had the time and money to be gone for awhile.

 

On Stella Solaris, I was one of two passengers with natural-coloured hair. On an RVL cruise, a nice older man came up to me in the lobby, gently took my hand, and said, "We’re so glad to have you onboard. You’re reducing the median age!" I had been wondering if the senior brigade resented a "youngster" in her 30s onboard. That man was elemental in making me feel truly welcome.

 

On the Saga Sisters, I don’t focus on the age of the passengers because there is such a good ratio of crew to passenger that I find all adult ages present and accounted for. Having said this, I wondered what your thoughts are currently about being a future passenger on a Saga Sister. Would you sail again or will you move on?

 

To All: Best wishes to our American friends for a wonderful Thanksgiving and, to our friends overseas, I hope the upcoming week finds you keeping well and safe. All the best.

 

Ruby

[Conte Di Savoia]

We did find the price of drinks to be a bargain, even with the poor exchange rate. The downside was that we moved from a one martini pre-dinner cocktail hour to a two martini one plus a double portion of crisps.

 

As far as the age policy is concerned, in truth, it wasn't much different from other cruises we have been on. There were some quite elderly (in their 90's). God bless them. We were able to find passengers who were in our younger age range. We did not complain about the absence of teens and younger. We certainly weren't uncomfortable. I have traveled by ship for years and for many of those I was the odd person out because I was so young. Now my peers have caught onto cruising and we all fit in with the age of the average cruiser.

 

The passengers seemed more curious about us. We were told by one of the American entertainers with whom we became friendly, that there was actually gossip about "those two American men." A few people approached us to state the obvious: "You're not British, are you?" We had to confess that indeed, we were American. Does being an anglophile count? They wanted to know how we heard about the ship, which allowed me to launch into my experience aboard Sagafjord thirty years before, being ship daft etc. etc. (or is it yada, yada?) They then wanted to know if we felt uncomfortable being with all these Brits? Did passengers speak to us? ("Your speaking to me, aren't you?")

Bottom line: I would sail with Saga again. I wish the exchange rate issue would improve, however.

 

I hope all thread participants who celebrate Thanksgiving on Thursday, have a great day. We are off on an early flight tomorrow morning to DFW for our long holiday weekend in Bonham. I'll be waving as we drive through Irving!!

[Kapricorn]

Happy Thanksgiving to the American members of Nostalgia Cruises!

 

Donald D'maniac.

[seabourndt]

it must be nice celebration this festival, hope all of you celebrating enjoy and tell how it went. thanks ruby for the lovely info on the differences between rose and ruby. not ever been on rose apart from the ship visit 2 years ago in dover which was lovely. the bruby does not sounmd quite so good if some of the cabins are smaller. what about outside cabins? i guess it is the same size as when it was the CARONIA. iam only booked on a short 4 night cruise i think it is. newcastle,amsterdam,le havre,zeebrugge,newcastle,dover.STEPHEN CARD the artist does quite a few he's doingthe rose fromsydney next feb, hope to meet him while he is there then doing 35 day transatlantic on ruby next fall. i wish i could afford these cruises. i just loved my trips on the CARONIA. i think its lovely them having a blog even better than a webcam.

dave

[seabourndt]

sorry you missed the old station at dover everytime i go thee i remembeer when the old boat trains used top come there, it looks just the same. i wonder what will happen to the place as some areas are quite rundown. nice to hear about people being on the BOUDICCA. i met a lovely lady on her. she is a receptionist on her. last weekend i took a day off and nmet her in soton to show her round the city. it was quite tiring for me as wd went women shopping a lot of the btime. i was really looking forward vto trying out the BOUDICCA having been on the shipwhen it was the GOLDEN PRINCESS in 95. having tried all the other FRED OLSEN SHIPS(they all have lovely models of the same ship on board)i know oits only a small tyhing but i love them. i was so dissapointed to mfind that BOUDICCA does not have one. the BRAEMAR is my fave fred olsen ship and after they lenghening her next year the ship will be a lot more stable so i understand.

dave