Speaking of rules, HAL's not worried

[lknick]

Does anyone see the irony here?

 

In this forum, we devote hours and enormous amounts of emotion to worrying about how, whether and how much to tip the smiling crew who work so hard for us --- how to deal with chair hoggers --- how to dress properly when rules aren’t enforced --- how to keep the smokers and non-smokers from going nuclear --- how to deal with children in adult pools and babies whose swim diapers leak --- the best smuggling methods to get booze into our cabins…. Etc etc etc.

 

And, HAL’s response to all these burning issues? They reduced options [adding $10/day to every passenger’s cruise cost, changed the in-cabin liquor rule] and hired more security.

 

Apparently they’ve taken the view that they can’t please everybody so if the participants get too rambunctious, they’ll just call in the muscle.

 

Whenever the minority refuse to conduct themselves in an appropriate manner and sing ‘It’s my vacation’ in a squeaky voice, then the majority must suffer. Things that were optional become mandatory.

 

…the non-smokers are becoming more militant all the time. We have a dedicated security person during the day for the Lido now.

Enough said.

 

HAL’s having a record revenue year despite all of our worries. To quote Alfred E Neuman “What, me worry?”

[Orcrone]

You guys are gonna have a good cruz, or me and some of my boys will have a talken to ya.

[tomc]

Ok, so I'm not always as swift as I'd like to be. Maybe I'm missing something here and I honestly do want to be told if I am.

 

The person who posts as "HAL employee" (be it true or not), says: …the non-smokers are becoming more militant all the time. We have a dedicated security person during the day for the Lido now.

 

That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. I've taken lots of cruises on HAL and I have never seen anything even remotely resembling militancy. During the time when smoking was allowed in the Lido (which I think it is not anymore), us non-smokers would just sit away from the smoking area.

 

If there was a security person assigned to the Lido on my latest cruise, that person must have been disguised as an Indonesian waiter.

[localady]

The only "militancy" on the ship I saw was the endless searches for booze etc on the way in from port!! :rolleyes: Oh, and there might have been some crowd control necessary when the Ice cream bar ran outta Vanilla with butterscotch sauce!:eek:

[lknick]

Dismiss and ignore.

 

The facts are there are now 18 security people on Vistas and 16 on S class, doubled since last year. All but two are plain clothed and look just like other passengers.

 

The number of interventions reported due to militancy has trippled in the last year.

 

And the Lido includes outdoor areas plus the restaurant. Smoking has not been allowed in the restaurant area for a number of years but on the deck smoking is allowed in certain areas.

 

My post was not designed to bring out the anti-smokers any more than it was to encourage the parents of babies in swim diapers to protest. It is designed to show just how silly we become worrying about all of this stuff, and those who can do something about it don't care.

 

And I resent the inference that the quote is not valid.

[RevNeal]

The number of interventions reported due to militancy has trippled in the last year.

 

Define "militancy."

On the Volendam last year a Russian couple (well, they were speaking Russian with what sounded like a Moscow accent, so .... ) lit up in the Lido toward the end of lunch. No one did or said anything to them. The cloud of smoke floated right over us and, since we were finished, we decided to get up and leave. Hypothetically, had we decided to ask them to stop smoking, would we have been tackled by a plainclothesman and thrown into irons while the smokers are allowed to keep puffing?

[Leslieswiger]

Most people do not know about the added security. I feel a lot of people are afraid or do not want to know just what is going on.:( The more one knows what going on about them the better for all.;)

I thank you for your thread even though some may be upset.

WE must have RESPECT and look out for one another:D

[lknick]

Militancy, requiring an incident report to be created, is where security must counsel a cruiser on the error of their actions.

 

There are specific guidelines about incident reports, and one of the categories is 'Militancy'.

 

Anecdotal data is seldom valid. Statistics gained from counting reports tells more of the story than a one cruise one incident tale.

[sail7seas]

:confused: I'm not sure I get the point.

 

 

Because someone who holds themselves out to be an HAL employee has written somewhere to someone (for both of which I must have missed the identification) does not care about the stated issues, does that mean we should not care/express what it is we are concerned about? Should we not have and state opinions about the experience we hope and expect to be buying for our vacation dollars?

 

This one person states he/she does not care; by extension, should we assume all of HAL authority does not care?

 

Please excuse my confusion if you think it is patently clear that our opinions as customers means nothing.

[RevNeal]

Militancy, requiring an incident report to be created, is where security must counsel a cruiser on the error of their actions.

 

You didn't define "militancy," you just told me what Security does when they see it. WHAT is "militancy"? This is a crucial question ... I want to know if I'm going to jeopardize my cruise if I ask a fellow passenger to put out their cigar if they light up next to me in the Lido. Is that militancy? Or, by militancy, do they mean someone yanking a lit Lucky from someone's lips and stabbing it out against their foreheads?? ;)

[lknick]

Oh by goodness Sail, you do have a double standard.

 

You consistently tell us of your inside information providers but never identify who they may be, but want others to identify their information sources.

 

It is my understanding that little action is taken by management based on any posting on these boards. Yes, Rev got himself a job by posting a complaint, but that is not exactly a policy change.

 

This board, and others like it, are fun in that so many different views surface...and so many different types of statements are put forth...but in the big picture, these boards are nothing but amusement.

 

Rev...Since I do not have a copy of security's guidelines before me, I can only give you my definition, which will have no validity. I recognize your agenda starting effort.

[sail7seas]

No, lknick. I do not have a double standard. Whether this "HAL employee" is identified is really not relevant to me.

 

 

The point of my message is that just because ONE HAL employee expresses his/her lack of interest in any of those issues, are we to infer automatically that all HAL employees in "postions of power" share that lack of interest?

[RevNeal]

It is my understanding that little action is taken by management based on any posting on these boards. Yes, Rev got himself a job by posting a complaint, but that is not exactly a policy change.

 

:D ... well, it's a volunteer job ... but I get to cruise for free once a year in return for preaching, the eucharist, a Bible study or 3, and being on-call for pastoral care emergencies. Not a bad deal, if you ask me! :D

 

This board, and others like it, are fun in that so many different views surface...and so many different types of statements are put forth...but in the big picture, these boards are nothing but amusement.

 

These boards are certainly an amusement -- a way to pass the time between cruises -- however I wouldn't say that they're "nothing but amusement." Even relative to the "big picture," they serve an important role in information exchange: passengers helping passengers, answering questions, giving tips as to where to go, what to see, what to expect, what to be ready for, what to do, and not to do. This may not mean much to a Cruise line's "big picture," but it does to me and my "big picture." Amidst the amusement, I've also learned a great deal about cruising -- secrets that I hadn't learned in my 7 years of cruising before I joined here.

 

Rev...Since I do not have a copy of security's guidelines before me, I can only give you my definition, which will have no validity. I recognize your agenda starting effort.

 

Huh? :confused: My only agenda is to find out what is militant behavior that will cause one to get "talked to" by security. :) Not that I'm a militant person ... I'm not likely to get caught in such a quandary. I have, however, asked people who have butted in line to move to the back. I got a bad look, once, and was called an interesting name by a "lady" (her mouth demonstrated that she wasn't acting like one, but I'd rather be polite) who refused to move. I simply ignored her from that moment forward. :)

[lknick]

The point of my message is that just because ONE HAL employee expresses his/her lack of interest in any of those issues, are we to infer automatically that all HAL employees in "postions of power" share that lack of interest?

It all depends on the source.

 

Here is the exact quote from an email. I don’t think it reflects a lack of interest, but rather of dismay.

 

“I think the smoking problem is worse on the new ships - at least I hear more complaints from that direction. ...the smoking areas are smaller, the ship is bigger, and the non-smokers are becoming more militant all the time...“

 

There was more in the email about other issues. And that's all there is to that.

[anngie]

Don't you think that the increased number of security guards is for the increase in the threat of the security of the passengers and the ships by terrorists? Somehow, I cannot imagine someone being taken away by undercover police to an undisclosed location for questioning just for lighting up a cigarette. All you need is more no smoking signs posted in conspicuous places or a Lido supervisor to tell the person to put it out.

I am a non smoker who has allergies and my husband is Asthmatic. I don't care if there are designated places on ships for people to smoke. If there is smoking in the Ocean Bar we just move away from it. The only thing that really bothers me is cigar smoke on the balconies. Somehow we always seem to be next door to a cigar smoker.

[lknick]

Why are we following Rev's lead and jumping on smoking. Ah...let me think? Could it be that non-smokers are militant?

 

Smoking was only mentioned in passing along with dress, kids, chair hogs, crew compensation...all of the hot buttons...in my origional post.

[BorderLady]

Don't you think that the increased number of security guards is for the increase in the threat of the security of the passengers and the ships by terrorists?

No. I think it’s due to the increase in disrespectful behavior. On a recent HAL cruise, our party witnessed a conversation in a bar that turned into very noisy gay-bashing with taunts and threats of violence. Security came and took away the verbally abusive folks.

 

Somehow, I cannot imagine someone being taken away by undercover police to an undisclosed location for questioning just for lighting up a cigarette. All you need is more no smoking signs posted in conspicuous places or a Lido supervisor to tell the person to put it out.

On the Zuiderdam last fall, I observed the following: all the smoking tables were taken, many by people who were non-smokers (as evidenced by them relocating ashtrays to that ledge above the scupper). After determining there was no empty smoking table, a man sat down at a table occupied by a couple and lit a cigarette. They immediately started to protest. It got loud. They shouted he should extinguish the cigarette. He replied they were at a smoking table. It got even louder. Security arrived, couldn’t get the couple quieted down so they took them away. Where and for how long? I don’t know. But I never saw them again in the smoking area.

[jhannah]

1. Fighting or warring.
   
2. Having a combative character; aggressive, especially in the service of a cause: a militant political activist.
   

n. A fighting, warring, or aggressive person or party.

[BorderLady]

Thank you, jhannah -- that very accurately describes the angry non-smoking couple in the smoking area. :)

[lknick]

Don't you think that the increased number of security guards is for the increase in the threat of the security of the passengers and the ships by terrorists?

If such is the case, why did the number of incident reports treble in the same period? Must be security was bored and needed something to do.

[anngie]

I don't know if non-smokers are militant. I am a non-smoker but certainly are not militant about it. As long as someone does not blow smoke in my face I don't care if there is a smoking section of a restaurant or if there are designated smoking areas on a ship. It has always bothered me that people are allowed to smoke in their cabins because of the risk of fire plus the fact that my husband has Asthma attacks. We don't stay in smoking rooms of hotels and would prefer not to have a cabin that someone has smoked in.

Maybe some non-smokers are militant. I don't know. Some people are militant about lots of causes and social issues. It seems to me that the fashion police are pretty militant on this board.

[RevNeal]

Why are we following Rev's lead and jumping on smoking. Ah...let me think? Could it be that non-smokers are militant?

 

Could be. Smoking is always a hot subject on this board. It never has been with me, however. All I wanted to know was what defined "militant" behavior on the part of non-smokers (since smokers, it would appear, are not being militant when they light up in the no-smoking areas). But, if you're going to cast me as a trouble-maker or a militant on this thread, I'll go post somewhere else.

 

Besides, jhannah answered my question with an excellent definition. Since I'm not likely to do any of that -- nor what Boarderlady described -- I'm not in danger of being pulled aside by ship security. :)

 

Smoke 'em if you have 'em. ;)

[cactuslady]

Security arrived, couldn’t get the couple quieted down so they took them away. Where and for how long? I don’t know. But I never saw them again in the smoking area.

 

How mysterious! Does anyone have inside information on whether there really is a plank and whether disruptive passengers are made to walk it?

[lknick]

Rev, here’s a few thoughts.

 

1. My interpretation was that you wanted me to provide HAL’s definition of ‘militant.’ This I could not do as I did not have it. The definition provided by jhannah is from the dictionary, and accurately describes the actions of some.

 

2. No where did anyone say that smokers could not be…and never were…inconsiderate. Some do just smoke wherever they want to but I have never seen one lecture a non-smoker.

 

3. I don’t see any attempt to cast you as a trouble maker. You do, however, have a tendency to parse. “I’ll go post somewhere else” sounds like sour grapes.

 

4. I intentionally hit all of the hot buttons, as I explained. Why did you, and everyone else, pick up on smoking? What happened to the others?

 

My point is simple: There is nothing to make me believe that all of our yammering, parsing, opinionating, point-of-view taking, emoting, tail flapping or anything else has any impact on HAL’s decision making process. If you look at this board as the passing of information, amusement or taking a moment to clear the mind after a challenging activity, then we are in keeping with the boards abilities.

[lknick]

How mysterious! Does anyone have inside information on whether there really is a plank and whether disruptive passengers are made to walk it?

Maybe they were sent to their rooms without dinner. "No soup for you!"

 

There is, however, a brig on each ship. I think it's called 'the detainment facility.'