Thread Discussing Rolls Royce Mermaid Pod ("Pod") Issues Affecting Celebrity Vessels

[forensic]

OK - I am totaly non-mechanical. But I assume the ships that have had the most recent pod repairs are in the best shape and those of us set to said shortly would care about which one those are. Right? Then we would know what our odds may or may not be of having a problem on our cruise. SO - which M class ships have had the most recent pod repairs? And if anyone knows - which ship has had the most problems?

[Drew B]

OK - I am totaly non-mechanical. But I assume the ships that have had the most recent pod repairs are in the best shape and those of us set to said shortly would care about which one those are. Right? Then we would know what our odds may or may not be of having a problem on our cruise. SO - which M class ships have had the most recent pod repairs? And if anyone knows - which ship has had the most problems?

 

 

That makes sense intuitively, but it has not been proven, and I think it is dangerous to count on it. If nothing else, a ship that was just in for repairs had ONE bearing replaced. The OTHER bearing could go out the very next cruise!

 

I personally think folks are better off not trying to second guess it. You cannot know whether your cruise will be affected or not. There is always a chance, but it is not a big chance on any individual cruise (no matter how long it has been since the bearings were replaced). If you're a gambler, go for it and have a great cruise. If you're not, then I recommend choosing a non-M-class ship on X or go with a different line.

[shepp]

It is simple to me. An event that happens during a cruise is a happenstance of fate or just plain bad luck. A defect in the propulsion system that is known, but not disclosed in the ordinary course of business, is just plain deception. The former is fate, the latter is deliberate.

 

For me, the real crux is taking unanticipated risks.

 

You take a bargain Caribbean cruise in hurricane season, you know you may end up with an altered itinerary. Going to Grand Cayman? There's a good chance you won't be able to tender in. But I'd bet the vast majority of people have no idea of M-class problems when they book a cruise. Of course, I understand the company not publicizing their problems. But even cruise-ship books tend to say that there were originally problems with the pods, not that it's an ongoing issue. When I decided to cruise Celebrity to Alaska, where ports are very important to me, what I learned on CC was one of the factors that led me to choose the Mercury over Infinity. (Well, that and getting 14 nights instead of 11 for the same price. :))

[Drew B]

For me, the real crux is taking unanticipated risks.

 

You take a bargain Caribbean cruise in hurricane season, you know you may end up with an altered itinerary. Going to Grand Cayman? There's a good chance you won't be able to tender in. But I'd bet the vast majority of people have no idea of M-class problems when they book a cruise. Of course, I understand the company not publicizing their problems. But even cruise-ship books tend to say that there were originally problems with the pods, not that it's an ongoing issue. When I decided to cruise Celebrity to Alaska, where ports are very important to me, what I learned on CC was one of the factors that led me to choose the Mercury over Infinity. (Well, that and getting 14 nights instead of 11 for the same price. :))

 

 

I would have had NO IDEA that many stops in Grand Cayman get cancelled if not for reading these boards. The cruise lines don't publicize that, either. Just like they haven't been publicizing the issues with stopping in Casablanca.

 

It comes down to the fact that those who research will know. Those who depend on the good faith of the cruise lines (X or others) will likely be disappointed. There's a reason their contracts are written to cover anything...

[LeftcoastBC]

Bold in the Last Quote are my highlites.....

 

OK - I am totaly non-mechanical. But I assume the ships that have had the most recent pod repairs are in the best shape and those of us set to said shortly would care about which one those are. Right? Then we would know what our odds may or may not be of having a problem on our cruise. SO - which M class ships have had the most recent pod repairs? And if anyone knows - which ship has had the most problems?

 

 

 

The propulsion system used by all four Celebrity M-Class ships are called pods. Per the rules of this board these are the "FACTS ONLY" for the dates of failures for the propulsion systems. These stats were gathered from sources such as: eventsatsea, ebearingnews and posts from this board.

This original post was on the "what you need to know about cruising on Celebrity" thread and has been updated as of July 27, 2007.

 

Millennium Inaugural date June 17, 2000

 

Pod failure dry dock January, 2001

Pod failure dry dock July 16, 2003

Pod failure dry dock December 10, 2006

Pod failure on New Years 2007 cruise and again in January. (Note: ship continued to sail at reduced speed until dry dock in mid April 2007).

 

Infinity Inaugural date March 3, 2001

 

Pod failure dry dock late 2001 (3 weeks)

Pod failure dry dock April 13, 2002

Pod failure dry dock January 29, 2003

Pod failure dry dock March 2004

Pod failure dry dock March 27, 2005

Pod failure Ports skipped and cruise shortened on two cruises

(July 9 and July 16, 2006) Electrical problem in pods.

Pod failure dry dock September 13, 2006

Pod failure November 19, 2006. (Note: this ship continued to sail with altered Itineraries and some missed ports until dry dock on May 20, 2007).

 

Summit Inaugural date October 1, 2001

 

Pod failure dry dock March 2002

Pod failure dry dock July 18, 2003

Pod failure dry dock September 2004

Pod failure dry dock June 3, 2005

Pod failure dry dock May 20, 2006

 

Constellation Inaugural date May 1, 2002

 

Pod failure dry dock May 1, 2002 (salt water leaked into pods at launch time).

 

 

 

That makes sense intuitively, but it has not been proven, and I think it is dangerous to count on it. If nothing else, a ship that was just in for repairs had ONE bearing replaced. The OTHER bearing could go out the very next cruise!

 

I personally think folks are better off not trying to second guess it. You cannot know whether your cruise will be affected or not. There is always a chance, but it is not a big chance on any individual cruise (no matter how long it has been since the bearings were replaced). If you're a gambler, go for it and have a great cruise. If you're not, then I recommend choosing a non-M-class ship on X or go with a different line.

[Drew B]

Bold in the Last Quote are my highlites.....

 

 

Exactly what point are you trying to make? I would think, if nothing else, the fact that Infinity had problems in September 2006, went into drydock, then had problems again in November would support my point. Is that what you intended to do?

[LeftcoastBC]

Exactly what point are you trying to make? I would think, if nothing else, the fact that Infinity had problems in September 2006, went into drydock, then had problems again in November would support my point. Is that what you intended to do?

 

Exactly !!

[Drew B]

I couldn't have said it better. The information about pod problems should be considered among all other factors when deciding on a trip. People should not feel that they will definitely suffer from pod problems, but they should also not feel that they can definitely AVOID them on an M-class ship. Trying to work the odds is not advisable, as the phenomenon is too unpredictable for that...

 

Beyond that it is a personal decision, and I wish people well, whether they elect to sail these ships or not.

[Shirley and Les]

Drew:

...The Millennium and Infinity both have had back to back pod failures within about two months...

This brings up a situation that had me a bit worried. We were on a two-week Infinity cruise to Hawaii this spring when one pod had to be operated at reduced speed since X decided to brave it out and postpone the drydock until the start of the Alaska season.

What would result if the second pod went bellyup during that period of time? I don't think having to reduce the power on the second pod would be a linear reduction of maximum speed. I suspect the speed reduction would be much more significant with both pods at reduced output. :confused:

Does anyone care to guess or provide an informed opinion?

Les

[LeftcoastBC]

I just returned from Infinity Alaska. I had the fortune of getting invited to tour the Engine Room control centre and speak with a Young engineer who has been with the ship since the get go. He was also working the cruise that I had the misfortune to be on when they canceled the cruise 3/4's way through in Acapulco and we were all flown from there to San Diego with varying adventures.

After making sure we were talking about the same incident. He started the conversation...."Oh YOU WERE ON THAT ONE" and we had a bit of a chuckle. The engine room had a real experience then as they eventually lost most power in the second pod. He advises that they actually had to change the oil in the system every two/three hours because of pieces of bearing that had become detached. They got no sleep for most of the trip and had a small oil tanker meet them in the Caribbean to keep them in oil.

 

Why they do not schedule maintenance ???? If it is working properly there is nothing wrong. When they fail and there is no known time when that will happen is when the work has to be done. They think that the builder has got a handle on it..but ????? They do not travel as fast as they used too as a general rule. They have/are considering returning to shaft drives on the M class... but ???

 

Solstice will have shafts.

 

Infinity is working well since it's dry dock in May at Esquimalt according to him. According to me it is the smoothest ride that I can recall on her. (4th ride) we recently cruised on the Zenith (final cruise) and it sure beat her.

 

This brings up a situation that had me a bit worried. We were on a two-week Infinity cruise to Hawaii this spring when one pod had to be operated at reduced speed since X decided to brave it out and postpone the drydock until the start of the Alaska season.

What would result if the second pod went bellyup during that period of time? I don't think having to reduce the power on the second pod would be a linear reduction of maximum speed. I suspect the speed reduction would be much more significant with both pods at reduced output. :confused:

Does anyone care to guess or provide an informed opinion?

Les

 

Les my highlites from my earlier post. Says it all I think. One would have to go to the nearest port with a boatload of Passengers to unload. We often think what would have happened had we been down the coast further and had to leave the ship in Timbuktu so to speak.

[NHcruisers]

I have resisted posting info I learned from a knowledgeable source before this in order to protect his identity ...

 

The problem is not simply a bearing problem, it is also a shaft (within the pod) deformation problem. The pods that Celebrity uses have the longest internal shaft length (9 metres) of any pod system currently on any ship.

 

Celebrity's failure analysis of the "bearing problem" has also revealed deformation of the shaft (non-concentricity). This was measured by lasers measured at every two degrees times 180. The lack of concentricity of the internal shaft puts the bearings at increased risk of failure. (If you are a "techie" you can understand why this is so.).

 

Soooo, it is not just a bearing problem but an inherent design problem whereby the internal shaft due to its length and the torque it is subjected to, cannot maintain concentricity which results in premature failure of the bearings.

 

Having said this, I would not hesitate to book on an M class ship. We've been on Celebrity 8 times, twice on the infinity, and on 30 cruises overall.

 

I just thought the additional technical information would be of interest to a few posters.

 

Regards to all--

Bill

[Shirley and Les]

...The problem is not simply a bearing problem, it is also a shaft (within the pod) deformation problem. The pods that Celebrity uses have the longest internal shaft length (9 metres) of any pod system currently on any ship...

Interesting!

I'm a Mechanical Engineer and have often wondered why changing bearing materials or beefing up the bearings wouldn't solve the problems. These kinds of minor design modifications and/or retrofits could be accommodated during a weeklong drydock period. From your description, the issue (and the final resolution) is much more complicated.

Thanks for the information.

Les

[c-legs]

I have resisted posting info I learned from a knowledgeable source before this in order to protect his identity ...

 

The problem is not simply a bearing problem, it is also a shaft (within the pod) deformation problem. The pods that Celebrity uses have the longest internal shaft length (9 metres) of any pod system currently on any ship.

 

Celebrity's failure analysis of the "bearing problem" has also revealed deformation of the shaft (non-concentricity). This was measured by lasers measured at every two degrees times 180. The lack of concentricity of the internal shaft puts the bearings at increased risk of failure. (If you are a "techie" you can understand why this is so.).

 

Soooo, it is not just a bearing problem but an inherent design problem whereby the internal shaft due to its length and the torque it is subjected to, cannot maintain concentricity which results in premature failure of the bearings.

 

Having said this, I would not hesitate to book on an M class ship. We've been on Celebrity 8 times, twice on the infinity, and on 30 cruises overall.

 

I just thought the additional technical information would be of interest to a few posters.

 

Regards to all--

Bill

:cool: Good evening,

Thank you very much for this new insight into the ''pods'' issue. Appreciated.

That explains why RollsRoyce is the only defendent ''left standing'' in the litigation instigated by RCL in cunjunction with the repeated instances of premature wearing of the radial thrust bearings, and the ensueing huge costs.

One can also imagine the premature wear inflicted on the electrical components of the entire pods assembly....It's noteworthy that INFINITY's last pod ''failure'' was of the electrical apparatus, which resulted in a complete pod change out ( as opposed to simply replacing a prematurely worn bearing). Happened in Victoria May'07.

Your input is most welcomed.

 

Cheers

;)

[nannie70]

Is it safe to book a cruise on the Infinity. We are going next June 20th to Alaska. Is the problem taken care of. Thanks

[Drew B]

Is it safe to book a cruise on the Infinity. We are going next June 20th to Alaska. Is the problem taken care of. Thanks

 

"Safe" is a relative term. The problem has not been "taken care of", if what you mean is a permanent fix. By that definition, it will probably never be fully taken care of...

[Cathrine the Great]

One possible reason for the demise of the web-cams might be that while the mechanical POD problems on the Infinity and Millennium that were going on for the first four months of the year there was too much chatter about the daily position of each ship.

[Cathrine the Great]

First time on the Celebrity. Was also told that Celebrity is a step about Princess in the service. Personally I found it was not the case. The people serving the food always seem to be mad at something. My friend had egg shells in his omletes.. Food are VERY salty. My god, the lobster night was a disaster. It was dipped in salt practically. Vegetables like spinach was sandy. On formal night, 2nd seating, they ran out of lobster ravioli before the night began. Food out on the grill is mildly warm to cold. Cold burgers and ribs. When I ask for a piece of meat from another menu onto my main selection during dinner, our waiter will comment, I can try, but I don't know if I can do it.. , $2 charge to eat at the buffet restaurant during dinner AND HAS TO MAKE RESERVATION.. , DISHES ARE FILTHY. My god. I've never seen so many dirty dishes used for serviing. They're oily, and very dirty up on the buffet. Found a piece of glass in my wine glass (good thing I saw it before using!).

 

I wondered about that too. Good food and good service is not something that is unique to Celebrity. Most other mass market cruise lines offer the same good food and service and great ports. The big thing is condition of the ship and in that area Celebrity is definitly going down hill.

 

The ever present possibility of a POD problems on the Infinity, Summit and Millennium should always be a concern. The Galaxy with its fogged windows in teh observation loung, frawed and worn carpet, etc. is hardly the sign of a cruise line on the way up. , . coupled with teh

 

I'm hoping this is Century specific as I'm also booked on another one in January!.. Just my 2 cents and nothing was exxagerated.

 

I can go on and on.. but in MY OPINION on the CENTURY, it was poor dining experience, although, the sushi has pretty good selection![/quote

 

Your list of complaints regarding food service on your recent Century cruise is quite extensive, as set forth in both this and another of your posts under "Norovirus on Century." I'm curious to know your impressions of the non-dining aspects of your cruise - did Century/Celebrity disappoint you there as well?

 

I wondered about that too. Good food and good service is not something that is unique to Celebrity. Most other mass market cruise lines offer the same good food and good service and great ports. The big thing for me is condition of the ship and in that area Celebrity is definitely going down hill.

 

The ever present possibility of a POD problem on the Infinity, Summit and Millennium should always be a concern. The Galaxy with its fogged windows in the observation lounge, frayed and worn carpet, stained furnishings, etc., is hardly the sign of a cruise line on the way up.

 

Celebrity customer service is not even close to the level of other cruise lines.

[usha]

We're taking our chances with the "ever present possibility of a POD problem", and doing a back to back on Summit in February, because we've had nothing but wonderful cruises on Celebrity 19 out of 19 times. Our last (and best yet) cruise was on Galaxy. Somehow, we managed to tough out the fogged windows in the Stratosphere lounge:rolleyes: . The whole "frayed & worn, stained" stuff is just not true. I saw that with my own eyes. I don't care if you think I'm a "cheerleader". I'm just reporting my true experiences with Celebrity, and they've all been great, (except the rotten fuel surcharge).

[bellasorella]

well, I am a non-tech married to a P.E. (mechanical) but just tell me this: it looks like Constellation has had less pod problems than any other M class ship. Does that mean tha 1) its engines (or whatever) have escaped the problem, 2) they've been properly resolved (in the one instance in 2002) or 3) (eek) she is "due" for a pod failure.....We are booked on her for the holidays. Thanks all, and happy holidays.

[LeftcoastBC]

bella.. The Connie has had no problems since almost day one. I would think "guess" they got her right. Thats how i would approach her sailing record. that being said this whole thought process is kinda like walking across the road as a pedestrian. Most of us make it..right ??

 

Well I guess that's a little drastic but I'm sure you get the idea. :)

[Fogfog]

well, I am a non-tech married to a P.E. (mechanical) but just tell me this: it looks like Constellation has had less pod problems than any other M class ship. Does that mean tha 1) its engines (or whatever) have escaped the problem, 2) they've been properly resolved (in the one instance in 2002) or 3) (eek) she is "due" for a pod failure.....We are booked on her for the holidays. Thanks all, and happy holidays.

 

 

Praying and hoping for no issues..as we are on the Connie in less than 2 days...

[dagadget]

The easier itineraries for the Constellation would be my third or fourth choice for the reason as to why the Constellation has not met the same fate, as far as pod problems go, as the Infinity, Summit and Millennium. It is a valid theory but with so many hours logged by the Constellation with no pod failures, since its launch, it does seem that the flaw in the pod design would have surfaced on the Constellation by now, while the other three ships have had so many problems.

 

Happy New Year, to all my friends at cruisecritic.

 

 

It is also possible that the first 3 sets of RR Azipods were all test beds and they finally got it right for Connie. In any case the M class are great ships and Celebrity and RR will finally get it right sooner or later.

[mo&fran]

I just think it is curious that there are a lot of ships with what appears to be the same pods, and I have not heard of any others with the problem.

Francis

[Cruisininfinity]

Perhaps the Captain of the Constellation was not as "carried away" as the other Captains were and did not put the stress on the pod system as the other three ships have had. Just one more theory but it does come from the manufacturer and they should have a lot of knowledge about their own product.

 

 

I remeber asking Master Papanikolaou about this last March and he said the same exact thing( if i remember correctly, it was like 11 months ago). this is not a direct qoute but i believe he said that he doesn't know how the other captian treats the vessell but he knows the limits of the pods, and therefore, they haven't broken on him. He also said that he believes that the reason why they break on the other ships is because the captians turn the ship too hard or during docking or turn the power on the pods too fast when in an non-forward position. He is one of or the only captian who hasn't had anything break on him. It was a very interesting subject to talk to him about.

[sophie1]

SO.....would you take a cruise on Infinity at this point if the ports scheduled were really the important part..not the at sea days?

We are thinking of South America in Feb 09:confused: