Order of arrival of Queens in NYC on 13 Jan 2008

[ocngypz]

This misses the point - they are in Manhattan. Cunard markets itself on its heritage - which it cheerfully tosses aside when inconvenient. And I repeat, as an arriving guest the Brooklyn terminus is worse than Manhattan, except possibly for (more expensive) Taxis.

 

 

The next time my clients are literally thrown out of the Manhattan terminal by port employees to wait in the pouring raining for their late arriving cruiseline transfer buses.. or taxis which aren't appearing because of the rain, shall I quote you?

 

The number one complaint I receive from departing and arriving passengers in Manhattan..... is the terminal.

 

I have yet to receive any complaints about either Red Hook or Port Liberty from either my US or international clients.

[songanddance]

The next time my clients are literally thrown out of the Manhattan terminal by port employees to wait in the pouring raining for their late arriving cruiseline transfer buses.. or taxis which aren't appearing because of the rain, shall I quote you?

 

The number one complaint I receive from departing and arriving passengers in Manhattan..... is the terminal.

 

I have yet to receive any complaints about either Red Hook or Port Liberty from either my US or international clients.

 

Obviously not romantics that enjoy both a pre and post sojorn in the Big Apple without having to negotiate both distance and language just to get there. Some people view the journey to get to their destination (crusie ship) as a necessary evil. I look at it as psrt of the total voyage. So, the moment I leave home, travel by rail to Manhattan and then by cab to the Manhattan Piers I am on my voyage. Having to shlep out to Brooklyn or worse to New Jersey would break up the total experience. But then I was born about 100 years too late to do all that I would love to do.

[songanddance]

[quote name=stowaway2k;9894984

 

 

As for the historic aspects of NYC liner berths' date=' the German liners of Nordeutscher Lloyd and Hamburg America used Hoboken.

The German liners were often at the top of the list for size, speed, and luxury, fitting rivals for any White Star, Cunard, or CGT liner.[/quote]

 

Good to know. Next time I sail on a German liner I will look forward to leaving from Hoboken.

[KenC]

The next time my clients are literally thrown out of the Manhattan terminal by port employees to wait in the pouring raining for their late arriving cruiseline transfer buses.. or taxis which aren't appearing because of the rain, shall I quote you?

 

The number one complaint I receive from departing and arriving passengers in Manhattan..... is the terminal.

 

I have yet to receive any complaints about either Red Hook or Port Liberty from either my US or international clients.

 

Similar to a lot of attributes given to QE2 on this Board, the benefits of the Manhattan Piers are cerebral rather than actual :eek:

 

Ken

[stowaway2k]

If one looks at the history of transatlantic sailing I believe, but could be incorrect, that the larger more luxurious liners sailed out of Manhattan and the lesser vessels sailed from Hoboken, Bayonne and the such.

 

Sorry, my bad...I thought your point was yesteryear, not today...

[Wadadli1]

I've been to both. And, for what it is worth, I agree with Peter in relation to Brooklyn. Easier to get a cab though.

 

However the terminal is NOT the reason to go to Manhattan. Purely as a terminal, Brooklyn would be okay if immigration were sorted out before luggage reclaim.

 

The reason I want to be at Manhattan is the trip TO the terminal. Not the terminal itself.

 

Matthew

 

Ahh. I understand completely, and even agree with you. I reckon it's just put your head down and get thru once in the terminal.

[Wadadli1]

Good to know. Next time I sail on a German liner I will look forward to leaving from Hoboken.

 

My husband wanted me to tell you that when he sailed on the Hamburg as a boy, they left from Manhattan. Late '60s or early '70s.

[lexxity]

Most passengers opted to stay below decks rather than on deck for departure. I was one of a handful on deck, as you can see in my photos of "QE2 in Brooklyn"

 

Well your fellow passengers were just plain daft then! The views of lower Manhattan and The Statue of Liberty are just stunning. That said I would dearly love to see all three in Manhattan. Shall we petition the Mayors office and Port Authority?:D

[travel-to-go]

I have boxes of pictures as early as 1906 of the Manhattan piers.. and there is nothing postive in the pictures, save for the ships (and my relatives).

 

Glad you clarified that Babette! (And your relatives probably are too! <LOL>

I think people have this romantic notion in their minds.

It's just a skyline folks!

People have made Manhattan into an icon.

Do you feel particularly misty over the skyline of other cites? Miami, Boston? Bridgeport Connecticut has a skyline- I wouldn't want to cruise out of there, just to see it! (And I HAVE cruised out of the on the Port Jeff Ferry!)

Yeah, I know. IT'S MANHATTAN

Well, if your whole point is to sail into Manhattan, get off the ship and run over and grab a Circle Line Cruise.

The romance is all in our heads and hearts. So if you are incapable of finding the romance for Brooklyn which has an old and toried past, and an honorable one- And has also been the setting of many movies.

well, then that is sad! Try making a NEW tradition. They have to start somewhere, so YOU be the forward looking people to adopt it and make it bigger than life!

 

I know, I know- I've done both. And Manhattan is beautiful in the darkness of night with all of the twinkling lights. (Once you've survived getting there!) But I was just as fascinated by the --um, Is it the Timex building with the clock set into a hillock? on the other side of the river. I was fascinated by that and someone nearby was telling me about it!

 

Look, I am being obnoxious to prove a point. It isn't the end of the world, and it won't ruin your cruise. If this is the highest point of the cruise, then I am afraid you've spent a lot of money for nothing! Like I said, get a Circle Line cruise. Or just make the best of the South Eastern Tip of Manhattan, the very visible Lady Liberty, and so much more. And stop acting like Cunard has visciously purposely stabbed you verily in the heart!

Don't be a place-snob!

I LOVE Brooklyn!

And I've even visited some UNIQUE Brooklyn shops! That you WON'T find in Manhattan!

 

Karie,

the twit!

[Kindlychap]

Glad you clarified that Babette! (And your relatives probably are too! <LOL>

I think people have this romantic notion in their minds.

It's just a skyline folks!

People have made Manhattan into an icon.

Do you feel particularly misty over the skyline of other cites? Miami, Boston? Bridgeport Connecticut has a skyline- I wouldn't want to cruise out of there, just to see it! (And I HAVE cruised out of the on the Port Jeff Ferry!)

Yeah, I know. IT'S MANHATTAN

Well, if your whole point is to sail into Manhattan, get off the ship and run over and grab a Circle Line Cruise.

The romance is all in our heads and hearts. So if you are incapable of finding the romance for Brooklyn which has an old and toried past, and an honorable one- And has also been the setting of many movies.

well, then that is sad! Try making a NEW tradition. They have to start somewhere, so YOU be the forward looking people to adopt it and make it bigger than life!

 

I know, I know- I've done both. And Manhattan is beautiful in the darkness of night with all of the twinkling lights. (Once you've survived getting there!) But I was just as fascinated by the --um, Is it the Timex building with the clock set into a hillock? on the other side of the river. I was fascinated by that and someone nearby was telling me about it!

 

Look, I am being obnoxious to prove a point. It isn't the end of the world, and it won't ruin your cruise. If this is the highest point of the cruise, then I am afraid you've spent a lot of money for nothing! Like I said, get a Circle Line cruise. Or just make the best of the South Eastern Tip of Manhattan, the very visible Lady Liberty, and so much more. And stop acting like Cunard has visciously purposely stabbed you verily in the heart!

Don't be a place-snob!

I LOVE Brooklyn!

And I've even visited some UNIQUE Brooklyn shops! That you WON'T find in Manhattan!

 

Karie,

the twit!

 

Karie,

 

Have you sailed into the Manhattan terminal?

 

Matthew

[Wadadli1]

Karie,

 

Have you sailed into the Manhattan terminal?

 

Matthew

 

Perhaps Karie is suffering from the old familiarity breeds blase'? I will admit to a bit of that myself, when someone suggesting walking from the Manhattan terminal to Grand Central. All I could think of was, "Ha! Have fun crossing the West Side Highway." Maybe not blase' exactly--more of a practicality issue.

 

The historical aspect of arriving in Manhattan goes without saying. And the Brooklyn Terminal is so far south that you would be seeing the skyline looking north. Not that it's a bad thing, but you wouldn't get to see it alongside as you are sailing north to the pier.

 

Mind, the view of the NYC skyline is stunning from New Jersey. :eek:

 

Wonder how this will all sort out? Have you considered starting a thread with everyone who will be arriving on the 13th and on which ship?

[Kindlychap]

Wonder how this will all sort out? Have you considered starting a thread with everyone who will be arriving on the 13th and on which ship?

 

There is one for those crossing on QE2 and cruising on QV.

 

I'll bounce it up.

 

Matthew

[songanddance]

There is one for those crossing on QE2 and cruising on QV.

 

I'll bounce it up.

 

Matthew

 

There is also a thread over on the roll calls for those of us leaving the 13th on the QE2 for the 90 day voyage.

[Wadadli1]

There is one for those crossing on QE2 and cruising on QV.

 

I'll bounce it up.

 

Matthew

 

Just saw it. Reckon you can't add QM2, since that one's not a crossing and so far my family are the only ones on the trip. ;)

 

I love the West Indies, esp. the islands less-visited. Not as glamourous as a crossing but my, what a beautiful part of the world. And to only have to drive down to NYC and be returned back to the same place. So we will be the tanned ones, which is yet another reason to have all three docking together in the same place.

[Boytjie]

Good to know. Next time I sail on a German liner I will look forward to leaving from Hoboken.

 

Only ferries dock in Hoboken these days.

[travel-to-go]

Karie,

 

Have you sailed into the Manhattan terminal?

 

Matthew

 

Yes

That was all the stuff about couldn't find porters, luggage was a disaster, people stole the luggage carts (even from the porters), had to cross to the upper deck (parking) of the next pier (90 or 91, I forget) in icy blustery treacherous conditions. (I know you won't have to worry about that) they did NOT clear the ice at all, the elevator was slow, cumbersome, and barely worked and there was only one of them. The customs was a major nightmare. No problem at all in Brooklyn. a lot more clerks positions and better set-up. There was hardly any place to get even a drink of water NOWHERE to sit down I sat on my luggage or the floor while waiting, waiting, waiting. In fact, There were seats for grill passengers to wait in line (both terminals) but not for non-grill! (Fort Lauderdale has seating areas AND a duty free shop that's about three times the prices on board!)

 

And more than anything it was dirty, dingy, dark and dank, ramps up to the ship were not enclosed completely Fellow in front of me lost his hat to the filthy water down below (trash floating in it). It just was not what I would want to present as the face of New York and America. Brooklyn, on the other hand was 180 degrees!

 

Look, I know Manhattan is (pardon the word) iconic. But some people have WAY too much invested in what really is only a relatively small part (one would hope) of their cruise. They simply cannot accept it, and trash-talk Brooklyn as if it's tearing thier living breathing heart out of their chests! Cruising down the Hudson is beautiful. But the Buttermilk Channel is a short (and pretty) ride, you are docked directly across from the Statue of Liberty and can see her clearly from the parking lot much less the ship, while you only get to grab shots of her while moving from Manhattan. Governor's Island is actually quite pretty. And you do see the tip of Manhattan from the ship. Despite never having been there before, I found it easy to find and get to.And this was the day of the Tennis tournament, plus it was raining! Never easy to navigate in. Manhattan scared me, but because you are on the Westsdie highway, it isn't really too bad. Not like being on downtown city streets. In fact, we chose to go home via the West Side Highway from Brooklyn.

So yes, I have sailed in and out of both terminals in the past year (Jan 3-15 and Sept whatever it was- Labor Day) If you remember, I think the change was made in April after the return from the World Cruise for QE2, Around the horn for QM2.

We just have to create new traditions! That's all!

 

Karie

[travel-to-go]

Just saw it. Reckon you can't add QM2, since that one's not a crossing and so far my family are the only ones on the trip. ;)

 

I love the West Indies, esp. the islands less-visited. Not as glamourous as a crossing but my, what a beautiful part of the world. And to only have to drive down to NYC and be returned back to the same place. So we will be the tanned ones, which is yet another reason to have all three docking together in the same place.

Angela!

I didn't realize you only live in Westchester! Lucky you!

I was afraid, even going a day early and staying- I think it was around White Plains, that we might not make it to our January Cruise! It was an ice storm the day before. We made a last minute decision to go early and get a hotel. Marc called from work, I said get home. We're going down tonight. the weather's getting bad! I'm almost packed!

 

I have got to book something soon. I'm about to spend a considerable sum of money tomorrow on dumb dental work! Juxtapositioning spending the money for dental work or a cruise. hmmmm. And I am going to have to probably put on a new roof. (It's twenty years old and one side has developed several leaks- I may have to replace two skylights, too) And I may have to get a new dishwasher (this one is leaking) And I will need a new car relatively soon. But I am bound and determined to find something to go on soon!

 

Today was so beautiful I just HAD to put my hammock on the deck and get some sun! It got hot very fast! tomorrow it's supposed to be 82! Since I will be home early, if I am not in too much pain and hlave to go to bed (Pain pills make me dizzy and nauseated) maybe I can take my laptop out on the deck, and do some work from home! (I'm assigned to trouble tickets this week, so I have to watch them after my surgery. Fortunately, I can easily do this from home)

 

Karie,

who could go on a short cruise for what her tooth is costing her!

[guernseyguy]

They...trash-talk Brooklyn

 

And.....

 

dirty, dingy, dark and dank, ramps up to the ship

 

Who is doing the trash talking now?

 

But some people have WAY too much invested in what really is only a relatively small part (one would hope) of their cruise.

 

I think it really is up to 'some' people what and how much they choose to invest in their cruise - or in my case crossing. For a cruise I could care less where I depart from - but for a crossing arrival in Manhattan IS part of the 'iconic' experience - one that is denied us now - but not, funnily enough, the vast majority of passengers arriving in New York on those badly run lines like Carnival, HAL and NCL....wonder why, if the terminal is so bad?

 

And from a functional perspective Brooklyn is WORSE for arriving international passengers because of the way they have arranged Immigration and luggage - but since the Americans go straight to the front of the queue, they don't get that. 'Brooklyn is perfect and all's right with the world'

 

Back on topic, only ONE Queen can dock in Brooklyn - and the only logical choice is the QM2. The sailing times also imply this - with QE2/QV sailing at 17.00 - the QM2 at 19.00 - so looks like the QE2/QV will make their way down the North River in time for fireworks with the QM2 before she sets off.

 

 

 

Peter

[travel-to-go]

And from a functional perspective Brooklyn is WORSE for arriving international passengers because of the way they have arranged Immigration and luggage - but since the Americans go straight to the front of the queue, they don't get that. 'Brooklyn is perfect and all's right with the world'

 

Back on topic, only ONE Queen can dock in Brooklyn - and the only logical choice is the QM2. The sailing times also imply this - with QE2/QV sailing at 17.00 - the QM2 at 19.00 - so looks like the QE2/QV will make their way down the North River in time for fireworks with the QM2 before she sets off.Peter

 

Peter,

Of course all that you say is true.

And yes, I trash-talked the Manhattan pier, but from experience, not prejudice. I am speaking of those who trash Brooklyn without ever having experienced it, or giving it a chance. That's my real objection here. People who are put out by the move and are bound and determined to hate Brooklyn no matter what. Their loss of that cruise up or down the Hudson and the immutable irrepalceable "tradition" trumps other people's comfort, safety factors, and all else. It just seems like a bit of peevishness to me. Like a child pouting and nothing is going to talk them out of it. Those who state that they will miss the more traditional entrance into New York Harbor and the view of the Manhattan skyline are not the problems. It's those few vociferous folks who insist dramatically that their entire existance has been compromised by this change, along with their entirely Macchiavellian attitudes about QE2, Grills, Formalwear, Cruise vs crossing, Birtish vs. American, the speed of the ship, the color of the funnel, tips, food, drinks, smoking, the wearing of military medals, the kennels, and everything else under the sun leave me exasperated. Certain folks have iron-strong attitudes that scream out that any opinions other than their own is wrong, wrong, wrong, they have the only correct answers and snobbishly state to anyone who disagrees with them, that perhaps they should ask themselves if Cunard is the right line for them. As though they are the only arbiters of right and wrong, taste, ettiquette (the main tenet of which is to not embarass or humiliate others) "the Iron-clad Rules" style, tradition, marine safety design, decor (and decorum) and probably the color of the sky. Things get said in such a way that anyone having the audacity to disagree gets defensive and feels maligned. No wonder KenC is always throwing out (rude) fighting words. I have no doubt that he has no serious problem with the QE2, but certain people are so rigid and so prejudiced in one direction that one has to take the opposite tack just to establish some balance! I find myself doing that more and more often, and I really don't like being that way. I prefer to have the attitude that there are a lot of opinions, likes, and dislikes in this world, and there is plenty of room for those who disagree with me. I do not feel threatened by someone who genuinely loves the QE2- No more so than I would feel defensive by Penny's love for the QM2. Because she does not need to denigrate the QE2 in order to love the QM2, as it seems some folks seem to put across in the opposite direction. They spit out pronouncements about the QM2- how she is a pretender to the throne and does not deserve to be called a liner, etc. etc. Why is it not okay for people to like QM2, or not have to feel that it is a personal affront that Carnival Corporation made a deal with New York Port Authority for them to build a world class facility to their specifications in Brooklyn, in exchange for the promise to berth a few of their best ships there, thus improving costs, logistics, ease of provisioning the ship, etc. Why must a change in the brand of Marmalade on board ship be a rank insult to some? Why not say, Gee, I was disappointed they did not have my favorite on this trip, instead of rabidly spitting out that Carnival and the Americans are ruining things!

I guess this is what I am trying to say. Some people just seem to be raring for a fight, intolerant of any views other than their own, and just entirely too opinionated, to the extent that others react in a like, but opposite manner! In other words, become just as rigid in the opposite direction. I have no problem with formal dining. I revel in it. It is one of the reasons I cruise, and one of the reason I choose Cunard. However, I do not feel threatened if someone says, gee, I really hate having to dress for dinner, but I really love cruisng Cunard. The two are not mutually exclusive you know! And a person who does not like dressing for dinner should not be made to feel like a pariah, a criminal, a neanderthal with no taste who does not DESERVE to be on a Cunard ship!

I'm sorry to use your post and this thread to finallly spell out why I (and others) find myself increasingly becoming uptight, argumentative and oppositional. I like you Peter, and you usually state your opinions in a non-threatening and inclusive manner. You are informative, truly I have learned a lot from you. (And I like your cows- You know., Guernseys! I think they're "Cute!" And I drive past a herd of the girls every day!)

So I'm sorry I am getting defensive and argumentative. Yes, I would love to make that trek down the Hudson (and have!), but for me, the positives of Brooklyn's new terminal pretty much outweigh the negative of missing that fabulous and yes, traditional, sail down the Hudson. But I can somehow state my disappointment without indicting anyone else's opinion!

All some of us here are doing is giving back in like manner. I don't like myself being that way. It isn't the way I usually operate! And I think you have seen me deteriorate in that regard in the time I have been onboard here. I admit that. Somehow, I just let certain folks' narrow-mindedness and haughty attitudes drag me right down that path.

 

Part II:

I did allow as how I could not speak for differences for foreign residents arriving, as, of course, I am not one. I am not sure exactly what those differences might be. Could you elucidate for me? Is it a long line with immigration? Does it vary from one cruise or crossing to another? As I mentioned, in January everyone met with immigration prior to leaving the ship. I do not know if it is the norm or the exception. I'm not sure if sometimes this is done on board, sometimes in the terminal, or if there are actually two seperate procedures, one of clearing the ship and the other dealing with individuals. Can you possible tell me, just for my own edification. What does the foreign resident experience upon entering the US by cruise ship, and does it possibly vary (overall) from one voayge to the next? Does it vary based on the terminal (Manhattan vs Brooklyn) or are such things variable, according to the specifics of a particular trip, such as whether Custums and Immmigration got on the ship early or late?I'm just trying to get a handle on how we are treating our visitors, and what improvements are needed systemically, vs. individual incidents (Some of which, unfortunately, can't always be remedied, nor anticipated such as a shortage of personnel due to unplanned absences)

 

Part III:

Yes, I am certain it will be the Mary who docks at Brooklyn, It only makes sense, since she would need special permission for a deviation to Manhattan. While I think it likely and desireable that the three Queens do, indeed have that photo op in Manhattan, the logistics could be a nightmare for New York, the embarking passengers competing for services, those who must service the ships (such as loading in stores) the security people and so much more. Yes, I realize that "in the old days" they had many more in port at once, but I am sure they are no longer geared up for that load, in addition to which, things are done now at a much faster pace, and requirements are different. Ships in those days were also more of a form of transportation and not so much of a destination in and of themselves! Don't forget that the gathering of the three Queens in one place also poses unique security issues for someone wishing to make some sort of political statement on power, the war, or what-have-you. So my guess is she will dock in Brooklyn

 

Karie,

who is sorry for once more droning on, but feels that what I have said here is important. I would love to see this board become less divisive and more welcoming of dissenting opinions at times.

[guernseyguy]

I am speaking of those who trash Brooklyn without ever having experienced it, or giving it a chance.

 

Who? I'd be interested to read any posts 'trashing Brooklyn'. My only objection is its not Manhattan and the Princess muppets who organised the move thought 'most are asleep on arrival' - clearly not one who has done a crossing.

 

Some people just seem to be raring for a fight, intolerant of any views other than their own, and just entirely too opinionated, to the extent that others react in a like, but opposite manner!

 

But he started it Ma!;) I think as well as being divided by a common language we may also not share the same sense of humour - for perfectly good reasons - Brits enjoy irony - but in America, a country built on multiple ethnicities, why would a humour based on secondary meanings be valued? I think some posters opinions may be taken far more seriously by others than by the posters themselves.

 

I could not speak for differences for foreign residents arriving, as, of course, I am not one. I am not sure exactly what those differences might be. Could you elucidate for me?

 

Everyone used to clear Immigration on the ship. Now that foreigners are welcomed to the United States by having their finger prints and photographs taken, I guess the equipment for that has to be land based as all foreigners now get to queue - with their luggage - for anything up to an hour or more. The system in Manhattan and Brooklyn is the same (except for the luggage part) - and how long the queue is depends on how many agents they have and how many foreign pax there are on the ship. Americans don't queue as I assume you still clear immigration on the ship. The fastest clearance I've had was in Manhattan - but thats not down to where we were, just the factors already mentioned. The design fault in Brooklyn is the luggage arrangement - added to which its a big old shed - just like Manhattan.

 

Peace?

 

Peter

[KenC]

....... Things get said in such a way that anyone having the audacity to disagree gets defensive and feels maligned. No wonder KenC is always throwing out (rude) fighting words. I have no doubt that he has no serious problem with the QE2, but certain people are so rigid and so prejudiced in one direction that one has to take the opposite tack just to establish some balance! I find myself doing that more and more often, and I really don't like being that way. .......

 

Karie,

who is sorry for once more droning on, but feels that what I have said here is important. I would love to see this board become less divisive and more welcoming of dissenting opinions at times.

 

Thanks Karie .... Praise the Lord - someone else GETS it as well!!! ;)

 

Ken

[KenC]

....... But he started it Ma!;) I think as well as being divided by a common language we may also not share the same sense of humour - for perfectly good reasons - Brits enjoy irony - but in America, a country built on multiple ethnicities, why would a humour based on secondary meanings be valued? I think some posters opinions may be taken far more seriously by others than by the posters themselves..

 

Peace?

 

Peter

 

Irony and sarcasm may be amusing when used sparingly in conversation between friends, but may not have that effect when applied in spadefuls on the internet between relative strangers. I believe sadly that a lot of the ironic and sarcastic comments made in this forum are heartfelt :eek:

 

Ken

[guernseyguy]

I believe sadly that a lot of the ironic and sarcastic comments made in this forum are heartfelt

 

Thanks Karie .... Praise the Lord - someone else GETS it as well!!!

 

Yup....;)

[KenC]

Yup....;)

 

 

That had no ironic or sarcastic intent - just a heartfelt expression of relief from someone who feels like he's talking to brick walls for a lot of the time !!

 

Ken

[guernseyguy]

That had no ironic or sarcastic intent

 

Quite! It is not what is written, but what is read. And it is perhaps a tad courageous to divine the intentions of others......