Royal Caribbean And Discrimination towards

[Hojo's redbeard]

Can we all say "Hot Button" That's what this topic is. I looked at what RCCL has to offer as far as handicapped accessible, looks like they went well beyond the minimum requirements of the law. Royal, like all businesses, is in business to make a profit. The HC rooms they have are larger than the like in same category, they also cost more to construct. Yet, they don't charge any more for it.

 

My question is, was the $3500 bumping to an OS? There's not a sailing out there that has a D1 to JS costing anywhere near that much.

 

Personally, I agree with the previous post that was deemed too harsh by another poster.

[m-coons]

I joined Cruise Critic about a month ago and haven't posted yet, but when I saw this thread I thought I might be able to give a little more insight.

I'm an architect that works for a firm that specializes in hotels. As you all know, hotels have different classes of rooms just like ships have different classes of cabins. Accessibilty codes state that the required number of accessible rooms be spread among the different classes of rooms as much as possible. So if you have a room class with one king bed, a class with two queen beds, a class with one king bed and a fireplace, you need to make sure you have at least one accessible version of each to the best of your ability. If you can't do this, you can provide equivelant facilitation, i.e., if you don't have an accessible room class (at all) with two queen beds, you can have two connecting rooms with a king bed in each. However, you need to provide these two rooms as the same price as the single room with two beds. But, if you have all the room classes in accessible versions reserved for the night, and someone calls to reserve one, the person calling is SOL as they say. The hotel has met their obligations for accessibility....it's not their fault that they're all taken.

 

It is true that much more space is required to make a "normal" room/cabin accessible which is usually done by using different/less furniture. This is probably the reason why only three people are allowed in the accessible version of the cabin in question (as others have stated). If this were a hotel in the US, they would need to give you an equivelant room/rooms for the same price as the suite if the accessible version of this cabin type doesn't exist at all. However, if they have this suite in an accessible version but it's taken (by someone that needs it), they have no obligation to you.

 

The caveat of all this is that Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) is a US Federal Law that I'm pretty sure doesn't apply to ships that are registered elsewhere, so it may not matter anyway. That being said, call RCCL and see if there's anything else they can do...although it may not be required, it could be bad PR to make you pay that much more for an accessible room that fits 4.

[phoenix1181]

I'm getting old and crotchety and am tired of everyone believing because they have a problem, everyone else should make concessions and exceptions for them. :mad:

RCI is not required to follow ADA requirements. They provide handicap accessible cabins because they choose to, not because they have to. The only ships that would be required to follow ADA are the NCL ships in Hawaii that are US Registry. The others are not US ships and can do whatever they choose.

Get over it.

[MrPete]

WOW.

 

I would hardly call a room whose occupany capacity is less than my travelling party discrimination. You may have an issue that might be able to addressed, but I would be more careful in throwing that word around.

 

The bigger your family, the more rooms one would need, handicapped or not.

 

Good luck, and let us know how you make out!

[Aquahound]

This in my opinion is discrimination if they allow 4 people in the same type of cabin as long as you do not need the accessibility.

 

Sorry if this sounds harsh and I'm not saying you're one of these but it get real old when you hear Americans with Disabilities wanting everything the same as those who don't have physical disabities and whine, moan and yell "discrimination" when it's not.

 

I don't see this response as harsh at all. It's a blatent truth. When a certain card is played too many times, it starts to loose it's value.

[kyriecat]

My mom is a full time wheelchair user so I can understand the frustration of trying to book an accessible room for a cruise. I tried to book a room for my parents to take a Caribbean cruise in April 2009 and had to go through 5 different weeks and settle for March before locating an open handicapped cabin. This is booking nearly 2 years in advance.

 

I wish RC would pay attention to what HAL is doing. They offer "assisted" cabins that are regular sized cabins but have shower bars and seats, higher toilets, and wider doors. These cabins are intended for people who are not full-time wheelchair users but need some extra mobility assistance.

 

On RC ships you have to book a cabin that is designed for wheelchair accessibility even if all you need is the shower bars because RC doesn't offer those in a regular cabin.

 

Also, the idea that if a non-disabled person books an accessible cabin will be moved if another person needs it is a myth. I asked about whether any of the cabins I was looking at were booked by non-disabled people when I was trying to book my parent's cruise. The man I spoke to said that RC does not monitor who books those cabins or put any information on the reservation about whether the person is really disabled. Anyone can call and request one just because they want some extra space.

[crazy 4 cruising]

You can make a call to the ships disability consultant; they are the people who got me my sign language interpreters for the duration; my husband and I were "lucky" and got a hc room; (no we are not physically challenged) I thought the room was a nice size; there was a couch that could open up to a bed and perhaps ur youngest kids could zz there; its a balcony and a bathroom that has a shower chair; its big compared to the other rooms..(on that cruise; they had enough rooms for people in chairs and I wanted to be close to other family members; so they asked if we would mind getting a hc room; and I said "as long as I am not taking it away from others that may need it.. I WILL DEFINATELY take it..

hope this helps

Human

 

I did not realize that RCCL would provide interpreters. What exactly do they interpret? ALL shows or anything that you attended? I am a teacher of the hearing impaired and this is info I will definately pass on.

 

We went on the ROS 2 summers ago and my Dad (since deceased) was in a wheelchair/scooter and in a HC room. They brought my 5 yo niece (her parents couldn't join us) and my parents had to "book" her in our room with us (we had adjacent rooms; deluxe ov w/balcony) since we could accomodate 3 people but the HC cannot. It's not discrimination; it's life. They have HC rooms available but not all will accomodate everyone's individual circumstances. Either get 2 rooms, upgrade to a JS or stay home.

Sorry if this sounds harsh and I'm not saying you're one of these but it get real old when you hear Americans with Disabilities wanting everything the same as those who don't have physical disabities and whine, moan and yell "discrimination" when it's not.

 

well said

 

My mom is a full time wheelchair user so I can understand the frustration of trying to book an accessible room for a cruise. I tried to book a room for my parents to take a Caribbean cruise in April 2009 and had to go through 5 different weeks and settle for March before locating an open handicapped cabin. This is booking nearly 2 years in advance.

 

I wish RC would pay attention to what HAL is doing. They offer "assisted" cabins that are regular sized cabins but have shower bars and seats, higher toilets, and wider doors. These cabins are intended for people who are not full-time wheelchair users but need some extra mobility assistance.

 

On RC ships you have to book a cabin that is designed for wheelchair accessibility even if all you need is the shower bars because RC doesn't offer those in a regular cabin.

 

Also, the idea that if a non-disabled person books an accessible cabin will be moved if another person needs it is a myth. I asked about whether any of the cabins I was looking at were booked by non-disabled people when I was trying to book my parent's cruise. The man I spoke to said that RC does not monitor who books those cabins or put any information on the reservation about whether the person is really disabled. Anyone can call and request one just because they want some extra space.

 

You are correct that they don't ask. I went to book a 14 night cruise and there was a HC room available and I asked specificaly--oh they are released (thinking that they held them for a specific amount of time and then released them, like the Family OVs) and was told no, they are first come first served. I did book it and there were 3 of us in the room--we ended up chaning the cruise and so did nto use it.

 

Thsi is a hot topic. having worked in special education for 30 years, I can see both sides of this topic.

[BonnieSte]

It's a safety issue only. Not discrimination. If there is a fire in the middle of the night and the couch is pulled out for the kids, you can't get through with your wheelchair.

[TEXASMUNK]

When every cabin door had a lip, so it could not be wheelchair accessed.

When a HC person travelled, they often had to pay and bring along an assisted living person for help.

 

The cruise lines, not just RCI, saw an opportunity to do a couple of things...

Increase their customer base

Assist handicapped persons

Meet a social responsibility

 

They have done these things.

 

I could not disagree more with the OP.

[airtita]

With no offense to to OP, thank you for all the subsequent posters who could see another side to this situation. I appreciate not being incinerated; just wanted to let the OP know that not having your way and all things being equal or not equal, does not qualify for discrimination. Call RCCL, explain your particular situation and see, if anything can be done and if not, find out what your other options are and go from there.

[mediator]

I don;t know your personal situation... I can only describe mine. I took my mom on a cruise and brought a wheelchair as a convenience for her figuring she would have trouble walking (she had bad feet). Not thinking anything about it (of course she can get out ), I never notified the cruise line, I never asked for a handicap accessible room. What I did do however when I went to rent a chair explain the circumstance to the store. They suggested for a cruise to bring the chair that does not have wheels that she can turn herself. They said it was ship friendly and small. Again, with very little experience, we got to our Jr. Suite on the Mariner, and I opened the door and the chair went through the door. The room had a sofa bed, so that could handle two children easily. The room was spacious enough to get her out of the chair, and put it in a corner out of the way, in casse of an emergency and had to get out quickly.

 

Maybe a jr. suite and smaller chair is possible?

[TravlGrl]

Am I the only one noticing that the OP has been absent from this thread for awhile? I am hoping they were able to get ahold of RCCL and find a resolution, but would like to hear the result of that phone call.

[Lightsluvr]

 

RCI is not required to follow ADA requirements. They provide handicap accessible cabins because they choose to, not because they have to. The only ships that would be required to follow ADA are the NCL ships in Hawaii that are US Registry. The others are not US ships and can do whatever they choose.

 

Get over it.

 

Well, actually there is a U.S. Supreme Court decision that affirmed that cruise lines sailing from U.S. ports are bound by ADA.

 

In this instance, RCI makes reasonable accomodation for handicapped travelers by offering the specially equipped cabins. The law doesn't require that it be "fair" as viewed by the disabled person; the line must just make reasonable accomodation. It wouldn't be reasonable for the cruise line to offer a free suite or adjacent room just because the disabled person says it isn't "fair".

 

LL:cool:

[amjdcm]

you have to understand that for safety reason and overall comfort, it is not resonable to have four people in a cabin, when one of the persons in the cabin physicaly challenged. it would be a hazard to get out of the cabin quickly in case of fire with so many people stepping over each other. and not to mention that some people who would insist on having four in a cabin with a wheelchair passanger would be the first to file a lawsuit if something was to happen. unfortunatly we live in a society of constant litigation.

[Ephraim]

Wow, everyone is so fast to pull out the "discrimination" card.

 

RCL and all the major cruise lines lose money on each and every handicapped room. Do they charge extra for them? No! In fact, they are discriminating against the rest of us by providing a larger room at no extra charge.

 

The fact is, there is a limitation on the room, it's larger, but because it's larger for handicapped access, you can't add extra beds. That's not discrimination, that's exactly what the ADA was supposed to do, provide handicapped accessible rooms. The ADA has nothing about providing family rooms.

 

Leave the discrimination card at home. That belongs to people who are discrimination against for things that they have no ability to change: colour, race, sex, sexual orientation, age. When you are provided with more for the same price, discrimination is CLEARLY not the cause.

 

You have a choice, if you don't like it, choose another ship or cruise company that can provide a handicapped accessible room that holds 4 people. No one is holding a GUN to your head and telling you that you MUST travel on RCL and on that specific ship on that specific date. It's a for-profit company and they are already bending over backwards to accommodate people who need handicapped accessible rooms. They are legally making REASONABLE ACCOMMODATION as required by the ADA.

 

My mother is travelling with two friends who are both on mobility scooters. They were thrilled that RCL could accommodate them and provide a room that was large enough for both of them. Not once did they think that paying the extra charges associated with the scooters of any other services or larger room was discrimination. Sorry, but RCL is bending over backwards for those who need handicapped access and in return... you insult them by pulling out the discrimination card.

[kel3120]

I think the harsh words toward the OP need to stop. I am guessing that is the reason that they have not returned.

 

Let's stop and look at how the OP must feel in this situation. They are ready to book a cruise, but because they use a wheelchair, they need to book a higher class room to accomodate their family. The point is not that they want a free upgrade to a suite, but I think it's more of the fact that RC does not offer the same class of rooms as accessible with the same standards. Anyone else booking in this class is allowed to have 4 in a room. Why put the accessible room in this class if it only accomodates 3? A hotel would be able to accomodate in this situation (since there are accessible rooms in all classes), but why not a cruise ship?

 

One thing we don't know is what ship this is on. The ADA was put into place in 1990, so if it's an older ship it may not have the rooms that follow this law. I believe it also took awhile to get each section of the ADA to go into affect as well, so it could be into the mid-90's before buildings/ships were required to follow these guildlines when building. The ADA does not require structures to be rebuilt because this would be an "unreasonable accomodation." OP- could you look into going on a different, newer ship and see if this has changed and you could be accomodationed in the one room?

 

I agree that the OP probably should've have used the word "discrimination" without going further with this topic, but I think that is truely how they feel. I do not like to hear so many people say how people with disabilities "whine" or are "ungreatful" because of the things they are already given. All these people are trying to do is get treated the same as everyone else. I am always hoping that our society will get to the point where people with disabilities are not viewed as different, and accomodations for them are readily available for everything. This thread is really discouraging in hearing how so many people seem to have absolutly no compassion for some of the difficulties that a person with a disability has to deal with on a day to day basis. I am not saying we should feel bad for anyone with a disability, but it would be nice if everyone could recognize the difficulties that our society puts on these people.

 

To the OP- good luck with this. I hope you are able to find something that works for you and your family. Please ignore those that were rude, and come back to tell us if you've made any progress.

[tkportersat]

I have to agree with you and wonder how some would feel if they were confined to a wheel chair permanently. I got really sad reading some of the posts. I don't think the OP was screaming discrimination, but simply trying to clarify if this was a normal practice for handicap situations. The OP cannot change their condition.....and just wants to have a nice trip with their family. Have a little compassion folks.

 

I think the harsh words toward the OP need to stop. I am guessing that is the reason that they have not returned.

 

Let's stop and look at how the OP must feel in this situation. They are ready to book a cruise, but because they use a wheelchair, they need to book a higher class room to accomodate their family. The point is not that they want a free upgrade to a suite, but I think it's more of the fact that RC does not offer the same class of rooms as accessible with the same standards. Anyone else booking in this class is allowed to have 4 in a room. Why put the accessible room in this class if it only accomodates 3? A hotel would be able to accomodate in this situation (since there are accessible rooms in all classes), but why not a cruise ship?

 

One thing we don't know is what ship this is on. The ADA was put into place in 1990, so if it's an older ship it may not have the rooms that follow this law. I believe it also took awhile to get each section of the ADA to go into affect as well, so it could be into the mid-90's before buildings/ships were required to follow these guildlines when building. The ADA does not require structures to be rebuilt because this would be an "unreasonable accomodation." OP- could you look into going on a different, newer ship and see if this has changed and you could be accomodationed in the one room?

 

I agree that the OP probably should've have used the word "discrimination" without going further with this topic, but I think that is truely how they feel. I do not like to hear so many people say how people with disabilities "whine" or are "ungreatful" because of the things they are already given. All these people are trying to do is get treated the same as everyone else. I am always hoping that our society will get to the point where people with disabilities are not viewed as different, and accomodations for them are readily available for everything. This thread is really discouraging in hearing how so many people seem to have absolutly no compassion for some of the difficulties that a person with a disability has to deal with on a day to day basis. I am not saying we should feel bad for anyone with a disability, but it would be nice if everyone could recognize the difficulties that our society puts on these people.

 

To the OP- good luck with this. I hope you are able to find something that works for you and your family. Please ignore those that were rude, and come back to tell us if you've made any progress.

[alcheme]

Anyone else booking in this class is allowed to have 4 in a room. Why put the accessible room in this class if it only accomodates 3?

 

That's not accurate. The classes of cabins are not really separated based on how many passengers they accommodate. Within RCCL's D1 balcony cabin category, for example, many only accommodate two passengers, while others sleep 3 or 4. So, if I wanted to travel in that class with kids, but the cabins in that class designed for extra passengers are all taken, I would have to look in other categories, as well.

 

I agree with you, though, that we should not be too harsh on the OP. (But with maybe one or two exceptions, I think most responses have NOT been too harsh.)

[TRadle]

Leave the discrimination card at home. That belongs to people who are discrimination against for things that they have no ability to change: colour, race, sex, sexual orientation, age. When you are provided with more for the same price, discrimination is CLEARLY not the cause.

 

 

 

I beg to differ. Do you think people with physical disabilities have a choice! :mad: Please let us all know how these changes take place. I’m sure everyone in a wheel chair would love to know what choices they can make so they can walk again. Or those who live in chronic uncontrollable pain can have a pain free day.

[Amy from Delaware]

I called Royal Caribbean. This information is for the Explorer of the Seas. I don't know which ship the OP was considering.

 

For an 8-night Cruise on Explorer in May, 2008, here are the stats:

 

An accessible E2 (balcony) cabin is 275 sq. ft. and sleeps 2. The cost as of right now is $1019 per person.

 

An accessible JS cabin is 276 sq. ft and sleeps 4. The cost as of right now is $1499 per person.

 

The difference in size is ONE SQUARE FOOT. The difference in price is $480 PER PERSON.

 

I don't think the OP is unreasonable to say that it's unfair to have to pay the price of a JS to sleep 4 just because one of them is handicapped. I think they should get the accessible JS for the same price someone else can book a non-accessible balcony cabin that sleeps 4.

 

RC calls it a "Junior Suite", but it's actually nothing more than an accessible balcony cabin that sleeps 4.

 

As to all the posters who said it's all about space and safety and all that, if that's true, then how can they have the accessible JS sleep 4 with no additional space?

 

THE OP ASKED WHO THEY CAN CONTACT AT ROYAL CARIBBEAN. HERE IS INFO FOR CONTACTING THEIR SPECIAL NEEDS DEPARTMENT:

 

To make arrangements, call (800) 722-5472 x34492 (voice/TDD), send an e-mail to special_needs@rccl.com, or have your local travel agent or International Representative contact us.

[alcheme]

An accessible E2 (balcony) cabin is 275 sq. ft. and sleeps 2. The cost as of right now is $1019 per person.

 

An accessible JS cabin is 276 sq. ft and sleeps 4. The cost as of right now is $1499 per person.

 

The difference in size is ONE SQUARE FOOT. The difference in price is $480 PER PERSON.

 

 

That's an interesting point. I don't know if there's a good reason they can't set up those accessible E2 cabins to sleep four. Another way of looking at it, though, is that those who book an accessible E2 cabin are actually getting a JS size stateroom for the price of an E2 (which is normally more like 173 sq. ft.).

[Mrsg324]

The cruise line is no different than a parking lot IMO. They accomodate for disabled passengers, maybe not as many as one would like but they do. A parking lot could have all handicapped spaces filled in a matter of seconds, do you consider that discrimination if others arrive before you?

 

Maybe they should limit the HC cabins to HC passengers first. Maybe book the minute the cruise is released. I don't know the answer but I don't think it is discrimination.

[Amy from Delaware]

That's an interesting point. I don't know if there's a good reason they can't set up those accessible E2 cabins to sleep four. Another way of looking at it, though, is that those who book an accessible E2 cabin are actually getting a JS size stateroom for the price of an E2 (which is normally more like 173 sq. ft.).

 

That's true. If you go to the Disabled board here at CC you'll see many threads about able-bodied travelers who book the accessible rooms because they can get a larger room without paying the higher price. The accessible cabins are not larger as a "bonus" to disabled passengers. They are larger so that a passenger in a wheelchair or scooter can *use* the cabin. If you are not in a wheelchair (or use a scooter, or use a walker) you can turn around in 173 sq. ft. cabin without a problem. If you are in a wheelchair, you NEED the extra room to turn around. It's not a special treat, it's a necessity.

 

I"m frustrated by people who think it's some sort of advantage to get the extra room when you're in a wheelchair. It's not like people in wheelchairs actually get to use the extra room for anything other than turning, and storing their mobility equipment. I'd bet that in many cases, when you take into consideration the size of the mobility equipment, there's LESS floor space left over than what an able-bodied person has in their 173 sq. ft. cabin.

 

From what I've read on these boards, it's likely that when my DH and I cruise next year in our accessible E2, we won't even be able to put the beds together and still have room to turn his wheelchair. I doubt many able-bodied passengers who book a cabin for 2 would be happy if they boarded and then found out that the beds can't be pushed together, and the romantic vacation they looked forward to isn't going to be quite as romantic as they'd hoped. :eek:

 

Please, everyone, stop looking at the extra space in an accessible cabin as if it's an undeserved gift. It's just not. :)

[TRadle]

I think the cruise line should only book HC rooms to those who need them. If they are not booked in a certain amount of time before each sailing then they can be released. Or they could bump someone out of the HC room if is needed. Either way it makes the cruise more accessible to those who need it. Also, maybe there should be a premium charged for these rooms if you don’t need to be in one.

To me booking an HC cabin if you don’t need it is like parking in a handicapped spot that you don’t need.

[Amy from Delaware]

I think the cruise line should only book HC rooms to those who need them. If they are not booked in a certain amount of time before each sailing then they can be released. Or they could bump someone out of the HC room if is needed. Either way it makes the cruise more accessible to those who need it. Also, maybe there should be a premium charged for these rooms if you don’t need to be in one.

 

To me booking an HC cabin if you don’t need it is like parking in a handicapped spot that you don’t need.

 

AMEN! (exept the cabin thing is only rude, while the parking thing is rude AND illegal.) :D