Royal Caribbean And Discrimination towards

[alcheme]

To me booking an HC cabin if you don’t need it is like parking in a handicapped spot that you don’t need.

 

Agreed. I can't imagine requesting a HC room just for the extra space. My moral compass just wouldn't allow it. I would assume (but I may be wrong) that the cruise lines don't give out the HC rooms unless they are specifically requested, but they just don't require proof of a handicap.

 

And to "Three Rings", I just want to say that my point was not really to suggest that extra room in a HC cabin was an extra bonus. But it does point out that the cruise line is offering space to disabled passengers that it might otherwise be able to charge a premium for.

[vator90]

I have read and re-read the OP's post. I find the wording of it to be somewhat troubling. Yes it appears they wanted information. But as with most things people are looking for from RCCL, its not that hard to find, you just have to look, or call one of the numbers listed on the website. The word "support" sticks out. Not assitance or help, but, support. The word "discrimination" also sticks out. As the diligent posters of CC have borne out, RCCL does make an attempt to provide a comfortable and safe traveling enviroment for people with disabilities. And as far as the OP not returning? I find that troubling as well. If you are going to phrase things in a way to stir people to action, you should be ready to answer, clarify and defend your posts. In this case it appears the OP did not recieve the outpouring of sympathy and "support" they were seeking and instead have chosen to sit in the background and let others fight it out for them. IMHO

[Aquahound]

I beg to differ. Do you think people with physical disabilities have a choice! :mad: .

 

That's not the issue here.

 

I have to agree with you and wonder how some would feel if they were confined to a wheel chair permanently. I got really sad reading some of the posts. I don't think the OP was screaming discrimination, but simply trying to clarify if this was a normal practice for handicap situations.

 

The OP did specifically use the word discrimination.

 

I think the harsh words toward the OP need to stop. I am guessing that is the reason that they have not returned.

 

The harsh words in rebuttal to the OP were not to show a lack of sympathy toward being handicapped. Everyone here is near and dear to someone with limited mobility. It's the use of the word discrimination that others and myself thought was inappropriate.

[TRadle]

That's not the issue here.

 

 

 

 

Don’t quote me out of context here. I quoted Ephraim in my response who said “Leave the discrimination card at home. That belongs to people who are discrimination against for things that THEY HAVE NO ABILITY TO CHANGE: COLOUR, RACE, SEX, SEXUAL ORIENTATION AGE…”

 

I stand by my response. People with physical disabilities did not choose to have them nor can they change their circumstances. People who Ephraim states are discriminated against do not need HC cabins or parking spaces unless of course they have a physical disability as well.

[Aquahound]

Don’t quote me out of context here.

 

I didn't. :rolleyes:

 

This whole thread is about whether or not an HC room not sleeping 4 people is discrimination. Getting off subject and argueing about whether or not HC persons have the "choice" to be there is irrelevent.

 

Just trying to keep things on track. ;)

[TRadle]

I didn't. :rolleyes:

 

This whole thread is about whether or not an HC room not sleeping 4 people is discrimination. Getting off subject and argueing about whether or not HC persons have the "choice" to be there is irrelevent.

 

Just trying to keep things on track. ;)

 

 

I think if Royal Caribbean really wanted to accommodate those with physical disabilities they would not allow people without special needs to book those cabins while other cabins are still available. I actually think the OP has a point here.

[kel3120]

The harsh words in rebuttal to the OP were not to show a lack of sympathy toward being handicapped. Everyone here is near and dear to someone with limited mobility. It's the use of the word discrimination that others and myself thought was inappropriate.

 

So if that word had not been used, you would have a totally different feeling on the subject? What about the fact that getting an accessible JS that sleeps four only adds 1 square foot? That seems to be the issue here, and I wonder why this has to add so much to the price. It's 1 square foot!

 

I just felt most of the response were somewhat cold and people did not seem to be looking at how the OP felt. A few were downright mean as well.

[Aquahound]

So if that word had not been used, you would have a totally different feeling on the subject?

 

Yes, absolutely. Discrimination is a big word and it insuates a heartless wrongdoing on the vendor, in this case RCI.

 

I'm sorry that HC rooms cannot accomodate the same number of people. That sounds like the nature of the beast to me. I just don't see how it could be called discrimination. And I went back and re-read the Op's post. They most certainly did intend to play the discrimination card. I have no doubt about that. It's there in black and white.

[ranger-red]

That's right. RCL is NOT discriminating. They are booking rooms as people ask for them. I think a lot of us are just plain tired of hearing that everyone is being discriminated against. Does anyone really think that RCL is just thumbing their nose at HC folks? No way!

 

The simple fact is that they are in business to make a profit for their shareholders, not make everything perfect for everyone.

 

Cruise lines hire folks that represent many different nationalities, serve food that appeals to many different tastes. They have diversity that most businesses other than Disney would find hard to beat. Obviously, they make an effort to satisfy as many as their business model will allow.

 

There are no entilitlements in private business.

[abridalmaven]

I think the cruise line should only book HC rooms to those who need them. If they are not booked in a certain amount of time before each sailing then they can be released. Or they could bump someone out of the HC room if is needed. Either way it makes the cruise more accessible to those who need it. Also, maybe there should be a premium charged for these rooms if you don’t need to be in one.

 

To me booking an HC cabin if you don’t need it is like parking in a handicapped spot that you don’t need.

And how do they know when it is booked tht the person is NOT disabled? Disabilities come in all forms. My Mom has asthma and COPD and walks with a cane some days, and we get nasty looks when we park in the handicapped spots.:rolleyes:

[alcheme]

Disabilities may come in all forms, but I think, for the purposes of the wheelchair accessible rooms, it's pretty much just the disabilities that require use of a wheelchair that should apply.

[abridalmaven]

maybe, but that still does not answer the question of how RCI would know.

[TRadle]

maybe, but that still does not answer the question of how RCI would know.

 

 

I think the same documentation that is needed for a handicap license plate would work just fine. It is a one page form filled out by the person’s doctor that states the disability.:rolleyes:

[kel3120]

Yes, absolutely. Discrimination is a big word and it insuates a heartless wrongdoing on the vendor, in this case RCI.

 

I'm sorry that HC rooms cannot accomodate the same number of people. That sounds like the nature of the beast to me. I just don't see how it could be called discrimination. And I went back and re-read the Op's post. They most certainly did intend to play the discrimination card. I have no doubt about that. It's there in black and white.

 

Again, this is my thought... The OP was clearly upset about not being given an accessible cabin that was the same as the other cabins in that class. I believe that they (and I-as I stated in a previous post) thought that all of these cabins allowed 4 people EXCEPT the accesible one. In that case, I would be upset as well as the price is exactly the same. When people are upset, they tend to overreact and say things that are over the top, and in this case use the word "discrimination." I wish people could put that aside and look at the actual issue here. Why is it okay to only allow an accessible balcony cabin to hold 2, but an accessible JS with just 1 extra square foot holds 4, and the price jumps a huge amount? Until someone can answer that question, I will still feel that the OP is correct in feeling upset about this.

[kel3120]

That's right. RCL is NOT discriminating. They are booking rooms as people ask for them. I think a lot of us are just plain tired of hearing that everyone is being discriminated against. Does anyone really think that RCL is just thumbing their nose at HC folks? No way!

 

The simple fact is that they are in business to make a profit for their shareholders, not make everything perfect for everyone.

 

Cruise lines hire folks that represent many different nationalities, serve food that appeals to many different tastes. They have diversity that most businesses other than Disney would find hard to beat. Obviously, they make an effort to satisfy as many as their business model will allow.

 

There are no entilitlements in private business.

 

This is the exact reason that the ADA was put into affect. Private business are not allowed this right (unless they are very small, which is not the case here).

 

In my college courses I had to learn a lot about the ADA. After this thread I am now interested in researching how these regulations affect cruiselines. I will post later when I find out the exact requirements for this type of business.

[Amy from Delaware]

kel3120,

 

There are some threads on the "disabled cruise travel" part of the cruise critic board that deal with this subject. There are a few people over there who really know a lot about the ADA and cruising. I believe Queenie is one of them. You might want to go see if you can find those posts and contact her for more info.

[kel3120]

From the ADA (ada.gov) regarding public accomodations:

 

9.1.4 Classes of Sleeping Accommodations.

(1) In order to provide persons with disabilities a range of options equivalent to those available to other persons served by the facility, sleeping rooms and suites required to be accessible by 9.1.2 shall be dispersed among the various classes of sleeping accommodations available to patrons of the place of transient lodging. Factors to be considered include room size, cost, amenities provided, and the number of beds provided.

---

The term "rolling stock or other conveyances'' was not included in the definition of facility in the proposed rule. However, commenters raised questions about the applicability of this part to places of public accommodation operated in mobile facilities (such as cruise ships, floating restaurants, or mobile health units). Those places of public accommodation are covered under this part, and would be included in the definition of "facility.'' Thus the requirements of subparts B and C would apply to those places of public accommodation. For example, a covered entity could not discriminate on the basis of disability in the full and equal enjoyment of the facilities (Sec.36.201). Similarly, a cruise line could not apply eligibility criteria to potential passengers in a manner that would screen out individuals with disabilities, unless the criteria are "necessary,'' as provided in Sec.36.301.

I am going to call the ADA information line on Tuesday to make sure I understand this correctly, but it looks like the OP may have a legitimate complaint.

[kel3120]

kel3120,

 

There are some threads on the "disabled cruise travel" part of the cruise critic board that deal with this subject. There are a few people over there who really know a lot about the ADA and cruising. I believe Queenie is one of them. You might want to go see if you can find those posts and contact her for more info.

 

Thanks! I will definately have to do that.

[alcheme]

I wish people could put that aside and look at the actual issue here. Why is it okay to only allow an accessible balcony cabin to hold 2, but an accessible JS with just 1 extra square foot holds 4, and the price jumps a huge amount? Until someone can answer that question, I will still feel that the OP is correct in feeling upset about this.

 

:rolleyes: You're too hung up on that. Just because it might be possible for them to have an accessible balcony cabin hold 4 doesn't mean it has to be that way. Perhaps they don't get much demand for accessible cabins for 4. You seem to be suggesting that they should make available everything that anyone might desire. That's just not practicle.

 

I tend to travel with kids, and they often have very limited availability of ANY KIND of cabin within a given category that sleeps 4. The accessible balcony cabins weren't designed to sleep four. Is it possible that they could have been? Sure. But what if someone wants them to sleep five? Should they do that, too, just in case? They probably try to make accessible rooms available in the configurations that they have the most demand for.

[Fran Harp]

I am sorry but is not fair that I have to pay additional charges to sail with my family just because I use a wheelchair. My children will be 3 and 5 years old at the time of sailing. I highly doubt they should stay in a room by themseleves.

 

Thanks for your help

 

You would not need to do that. Other posters have noted that the space which might have been used for extra beds is gone because of requirements for people in wheelchairs. You could book two rooms....I think you said you were with a spouse - one of you stays in a regular room with one of the kids, and the other one in the other room. Not ideal, of course.

 

Unfortunately no matter how much cruise lines try to make sure everyone can cruise the way they want, sometimes it won't be possible. Theya re not discriminating, just doing only what is possible. But call the number and see what they suggest to you...it may be it can work out.

 

Fran in Toronto

[forpaws]

 

I am going to call the ADA information line on Tuesday to make sure I understand this correctly, but it looks like the OP may have a legitimate complaint.

 

Do you honestly think that RCI's attorneys have left loopholes in RCI's policies and procedures that would expose them to potential litigation in what can be a hotly contested and litigious area????

 

Give me a break.

 

Go ahead and call them...just be ready to be disappointed. You're not dealing with amateurs.:rolleyes:

[Virginia_Native]

Seems like there are a lot of RCI homers in here. I'm sorry but I think she has a point with all this. If I was disabled (which I'm not) and I wanted to make reservations for four in a hotel, and they could only accomodate me in a suite that is 30-50% more in price when I know that the basic 4 person rooms are cheaper even if they couldnt accomodate, I would question discrimination as well. This has ADA all over it. Kinda what the architect explained. Although It might be unintentional why should I have to pay more because I have a disabilty.

 

Now if they dont have the accomodations that is a different story. The problem is the availabilty in the class that is in question. Unfortunatley when you give access like this you travel down a slippery slope of higher and higher expections. People can really start taking advantage of this whole accessabilty issue and the sad thing is most of the time there not even disabled. I'm sure If this was an isolated issue RCI would gladly give you an upgrade or even a side by side at no extra charge but as soon as they do that for you expectations raise and now every wants a free upgrade for some discriminatory reason

[beachchick]

Disabilities may come in all forms, but I think, for the purposes of the wheelchair accessible rooms, it's pretty much just the disabilities that require use of a wheelchair that should apply.

 

That's fine except that some people with disabilities who aren't in a wheelchair need other features of the HC cabins which are not available in AB cabins. Things such as the grab bars, shower seats, and other mobility/accessibility assistance. Things like the visual features (flashing light instead of ringing phone and so forth) for hearing-impaired passengers aren't available in all cabins, but they are often available in the HC cabins. There are HC passengers who need accessibility features, but not the wheelchair access. I'm sure you're not suggesting that they not cruise just because they don't need the wheelchair access but do need the other accomodations. Because that might be the only other choice.

 

I heartily agree that the cruise lines shouldn't even bother to have wheelchair accessible/HC cabins if they're just going to make them first-come-first-served. What's the point? They should be only for those passengers who need them. However, I believe that 30 days before a cruise date, any available HC cabins should be released for general booking because it is unreasonable to expect the cruise lines to hold them open until the cruise date if that means that the cabin is empty for that cruise. With under 30 days, we should all expect to take our chances that something might be available if we decide to try for a last-minute booking.

 

beachchick

[Merion_Mom]

We have sailed 4 times aboard RCI and have always sailed within a Deluxe ocean view room with a Balcony. I use a wheelchair and require the handicapped accessible cabins. We are not looking to book a cruise and want to bring our 2 small children along with us. At the time of sailing they will be ages 3 and 5 years old.

 

We were told by our travel agent that RCI does not allow 4 passengers in this type of handicapped cabin. They do however allow 4 passengers in this type cabin in a non handicapped room. I was told that my only option is a Suite which raised the price by almost $3, 500.

 

This in my opinion is discrimination if they allow 4 people in the same type of cabin as long as you do not need the accessibility.

 

I am looking for someone at RCI to contact but am not sure who to talk with.

 

Any support would be much appreciated.

 

Thank you,

 

Lori

Lori, you have received information about contacting RC. Have you done that? Clearly there are people here who would like to know the outcome.

 

On your Voyager cruise, you apparently had an E2. An E2 can only hold two people, accessible or not. In order to get three or four people into an E category, you need an E1. There are no accessible E1s on Voyager class or Freedom class, that I can see.

 

The extra berths in E cabins are pullman beds anyway. Your children are considered by RCCL to be too young to be in a pullman bed.

 

There are only a couple of accessible JS cabins on ANY ship. If you want one and you see one available, I would grab it immediately.

 

Not all JS cabins can accommodate more than two either, by the way. The ones that are designated HC on these two classes also have a sofabed.

 

Would your 3 and 5 year olds be able to share a sofabed?

 

By the way, there is only one Royal Suite per ship. I don't believe that it is considered accessible along ADA guidelines.

 

Is that discrimination?

[madforcruising]

By the way, there is only one Royal Suite per ship. I don't believe that it is considered accessible along ADA guidelines.

 

Is that discrimination?

 

 

Good point Carol and I was about to post that too. BTW it´s the same for OS and GS I think and for Freedom class of course PS as well.