Why Haven't we Heard This?

[Globaliser]

I was thinking about it too ... but I seriously doubt either the extremes which the film depicted, or the finger-pointing that it engaged in. There are absolutely NO liberties which humans can take which would cause sun spot activity to maintain solar max+ levels this far beyond solar max, nor is there anything we could possibly do (including dropping nukes into the sun) that would cause it to discharge dozens of solar mass ejections, flooding the earth with many thousands of times the amount of energy as we normally receive. In short ... we're not doing this. We might be having a minor effect, but it's negligible compared to what the sun is currently doing, or what we've seen volcanos and major forest do to our atmosphere on a yearly basis.

I wonder whether that film will do us all a service in pointing out to us the dangers of carrying on the way we are, or a disservice in having been so extreme in what it shows that people will think that climate change is something which can be ignored.

 

While our year-to-year weather will always be at the mercy of the natural variations of solar activity, the long-term trend in temperatures over the last 50 years is undeniable, and undeniably coincides with another long-term trend in man-made atmospheric change which is capable of having precisely the effect on temperatures which has been measured. That must be enough for us to sit up, take notice, and ask whether we should do things differently. If there is in fact a link, by the time it's conclusively proved it'll almost certainly be too late to reverse the damage. Better safe than sorry, in my book.

 

BTW, although I agree about the relative effect of solar variation on weather and climate, I would be surprised if the effect of human activity on the atmosphere were "negligible" when compared to volcanoes and forest fires.

[Sierrachik]

Maybe I'd been on the board a long time the day I read your comments and my eyes were a little blurry???

 

Perhaps it was stars in your eyes thinking about your next cruise, which is just a few weeks away :)

 

I can't wait for your cruise, cause mine is the very next week, LOL :)

[Krazy Kruizers]

I knew that Alaska had been warm this summer. Read a lot of reports on the "Alaskan" board as well as localady's Ryndam cruise.

Also we have been watching the weather channel and there have been times when Alaska has been warmer than here in PA!

One summer when we were in Alaska in July we had very warm weather. And last year we were able to wear bermudas several times at the end of Aug/Sept. The staff kept shifting from blues to whites.

 

[lipoppop]

!!

 

 

Oh well, i'm not complaining. As long as I don't have to shovel snow.

 

 

:-D

 

Vic, Do you remember last winter in the tri-state area? Most snow in 30 years. This summer it only hit 90 once.

 

Have the cruise lines found a way to control the weather in order to promote their business?

[RevNeal]

BTW, although I agree about the relative effect of solar variation on weather and climate, I would be surprised if the effect of human activity on the atmosphere were "negligible" when compared to volcanoes and forest fires.

 

It's a matter of relative effects. When one single eruption of a large volcano ejects into the upper atmosphere more ozone harming chemicals and sunlight-blocking dust than humans have produced in a whole century, that's very telling. Humans CAN and DO have an effect ... I live in a city where that effect can be felt in one's lungs when the winds don't blow and the partially consumed hydrocarbons settle in to stay. However, our impact appears to be, most especially, localized. That we also have a general, planetary effect is also true ... but compared to the MILLIONS of rads being poured into our planet's magnetic field, and the resulting upward shift in heat that this influx of energy produces, human effects are negligible. Does this mean that we should ignore our negligible effect and should just go on polluting to our hearts content? Of course NOT; we should seek to do the best we can to not have even a negligible effect. Nevertheless, it still behooves us to recognize that even if humans were producing ZERO effect on our environment, there would STILL be annual, century, and millennium-long shifts in the planets' climate -- there would still be global warming and global cooling.

 

Did our planet, as a whole, go through major climatic shifts PRIOR to human industrialization? Yep, it did. Is it going through one now? Yes, it is. The solar impact on our atmosphere and climate is not just a yearly event ... it would appear that the sun goes through much longer term cycles which we are only now realizing, and those cycles play a huge role in planetary temperature variations. Humans didn't generate the last ice age, nor the prior warming trend ... nor any of the previous cycles. The sun (and/or extra-planetary impacts) produced them ... just as the sun is producing the vast majority of the atmospheric effects we're seeing today.

 

I am not an atmospheric scientist, but I've read a wide-range of literature on the subject. There is a diversity of opinion on this topic which is not always politically correct to recognize. As a minister in a nominally liberal denomination I hear a lot from the far left extremes regarding this subject. While there is much truth and much to be said in favor of environmentally sound public policy and personal action, and we must take care of that which we have been blessed to enjoy, it's also true that there are simply some things that would have happened even if we had not been here. Based upon what the sun has been doing the last few years, I would say that the vast majority of this past century's planetary warming trend is among those things.

[mare s.]

on our mid June cruise tour, the weather was so warm that the generators on the McKinley Explorer kept overheating and shutting down. At one point we were without airconditioning, etc. for more than 2 hours...the dome car became a sauna!!! They weren't able to cook or serve dinner either. Everyone we spoke to said it was the warmest and driest weather they'd had in years. But a bonus of that was that we got to see Mt. McKinley very clearly.

[jhannah]

I am not an atmospheric scientist ...

Gee. I would have guessed otherwise! This is a great capsule of what has brought our planet to where we are today. Thanks for the enlightening info.

 

BTW, seems like I read somewhere that cattle passing gas cause a greater burden on the ozone than mankind does. That's scary!

[sail7seas]

Perhaps it was stars in your eyes thinking about your next cruise, which is just a few weeks away :)

 

I can't wait for your cruise, cause mine is the very next week, LOL :)

 

 

That must have been it!!! :)

 

Our next cruise isn't until October......now that I think of it, I guess it isn't all that far away, is it???

 

:( Mine will be over when you will be boarding!!! :)

[ekerr19]

I just don't have an overwhelming desire to cruise Alaska for some reason. Our friends are begging us to take this trip and I just can't muster up much excitement :( I think I'd rather cruise New England...

 

I think the way I feel might have something to do with the crowds... I've heard it is super crowded and that doesn't appeal to me - the reports of warmer weather are starting to though :)

[imsulin]

I was just in Eugene, Oregon, week before last for DD's wedding (sigh), and could NOT wait to leave the wretched daily 98-degree weather we have endured here in AL since JUNE, and which I absolutely HATE!! I got off the plane in Eugene and walked outside to the most wonderful 70-degree weather I've ever had!! I could actually stay outside for five minutes and not suffer heat stroke! Well. The next day was rainy, drizzly, cool, damp, and NOT what I had envisioned for this wedding! The rehearsal dinner was outside, and I got so cold that my thumbs got numb and I was shivering! The morning of the wedding broke clear as a bell, with beautiful blue sunny skies (in Oregon??), and nary a cloud. Guess what the outside temperature was during the wedding? 98 degrees. Seems they broke a record, and if you've ever been to Oregon, NOTHING is air-conditioned! Sigh. Beautiful wedding, though!

[ekerr19]

I was just in Eugene, Oregon, week before last for DD's wedding (sigh), and could NOT wait to leave the wretched daily 98-degree weather we have endured here in AL since JUNE, and which I absolutely HATE!! I got off the plane in Eugene and walked outside to the most wonderful 70-degree weather I've ever had!! I could actually stay outside for five minutes and not suffer heat stroke! Well. The next day was rainy, drizzly, cool, damp, and NOT what I had envisioned for this wedding! The rehearsal dinner was outside, and I got so cold that my thumbs got numb and I was shivering! The morning of the wedding broke clear as a bell, with beautiful blue sunny skies (in Oregon??), and nary a cloud. Guess what the outside temperature was during the wedding? 98 degrees. Seems they broke a record, and if you've ever been to Oregon, NOTHING is air-conditioned! Sigh. Beautiful wedding, though!

Oh, I'm sorry to hear about your daughter's wedding! First nice, then cold, then hot? Yikes... My sis lives in Portland, she says the weather can be challenging, no doubt. The rain gets depressing, according to my sis (we are from So. Cal, originally).

 

At least you got away from the AL humidity. :)

[imsulin]

ekerr19 - I'm with you. The allure of an Alaskan cruise has just never appealed to me (did one on RCI), and it's probably because I grew up in Colorado, and had a life-time of mountains and glaciers. That kind of scenery was right in my back-yard, and I could just drive for a few hours to see this kind of incredible scenery. Guess I got de-sensitized. Because we didn't have any beaches or palm trees (except in the Botanical Gardens) to speak of, and glacier-fed mountain lakes tend to be rather brisk and non-welcoming to swimming sports, I've always been drawn to the Caribbean, Gulf, and South Pacific tropical locations.

[ekerr19]

I too, am drawn to the warmer climates... give me the tropics any day. My second favorite would be Europe. :)

[hammybee]

We were on the Oosterdam in mid June and temps were in the 80's-low 90's and Victoria/Vancouver was in the 90's. We did the Misty Fjord excursion and the waterfalls were not running. Seas were rough the first night and day out. So rough that the pool ran into the LIDO and air sick bags were placed in convenient locations. I love high seas. Most passengers did not.

 

Alaska, at least the portion we saw, was not on my list of favorite places. Too many ships in tiny ports and it seemed that most people were there to shop. I prefered the Norwegian Fjords ebcause there is life in them there mountains.

[imsulin]

Thanks, ekerr10! It was actually a beautiful wedding, and I know the outdoor pictures in the Rose Garden will be great! (Despite our attempts to not sweat profusely). We all stayed at the downtown Hilton (one of the few places to have air-conditioning)...thank God! We sent them to Fiji for their Moneyhoon..er..Honeymoon, and they just arrived back today, although haven't heard from them yet. She's from Colorado, and he's from Oregon, so they are definitely "beachy" people! Like me! When I got back home, I was greeted with the interminable heat and humidity, so I continue to leave my A/C house, get into my A/C car, and drive to my A/C office! Only way I can survive down here.

[ekerr19]

[quote name='imsulin']Thanks, ekerr10! It was actually a beautiful wedding, and I know the outdoor pictures in the Rose Garden will be great! (Despite our attempts to not sweat profusely). We all stayed at the downtown Hilton (one of the few places to have air-conditioning)...thank God! We sent them to Fiji for their Moneyhoon..er..Honeymoon, and they just arrived back today, although haven't heard from them yet. She's from Colorado, and he's from Oregon, so they are definitely "beachy" people! Like me! When I got back home, I was greeted with the interminable heat and humidity, so I continue to leave my A/C house, get into my A/C car, and drive to my A/C office! Only way I can survive down here.[/QUOTE]

"Moneyhoon" - HAHAHAHA - that's great!

Glad to hear everything turned out ok! It is hailing here right now - I'm downtown and was just wrapping up to leave - now I'll have to wait :(

Bet you don't miss the extreme Colorado weather ! :D

[Vistadeck]

I was in Glacier Bay in May and the calving was spectacular then, more so than in my past visits.

I live in Seattle and we've had 85 degree temperatures for most of the past couple of months, usually we have a couple of days like that in a summer. I think its unusually warm in the Northwest and may carry on to Alaska

Tina
[url]http://www.recordlady.com[/url]

[jimmy2x]

I am hardly the "alarmist" type, BUT if any of you subscribe to National Geographic you might want to check out the latet issue - arrived yesterday. I'm certainly not sure how much human activity affects the climate, but the rise in CO2 levels since 1950 and the corresponding warming effect is frightening. We have to wonder what sort of a world we are leaving our children and grandchildren.

[tejmar]

[quote name='jimmy2x']I am hardly the "alarmist" type, BUT if any of you subscribe to National Geographic you might want to check out the latet issue - arrived yesterday. I'm certainly not sure how much human activity affects the climate, but the rise in CO2 levels since 1950 and the corresponding warming effect is frightening. We have to wonder what sort of a world we are leaving our children and grandchildren.[/QUOTE]


It's true that even if humans had no effect on our planet an asteroid or comet could radically change the environment. At the present we can't alter major natural events, but we can control our effect on our environment. A major environmental shift caused by a natural event that shortens our children's future would be tragic. A major environmental shift caused by humans that shortens our children's future would be a disgrace for all of us.