NCL and Fine Art of Cruising Are Crooks

[smeyer418]

It's more like a leased department in a department store(most jewelry departments are leased)...if they use the same name as the department store they normally are jointly liable. If NCL handled the charge for them, they should make it right as it will be charged back to them anyway. If it was separately charged to what ever the name of the entity was then they weren't holding themselves out to be NCL and were merely renting(leasing) space even if they got a percentage of the sales. Its not unusual for a landlord to get a percentage of the sales.

[dadof2]

Me neither. I just don't get it. :confused:

It's awful stuff you can buy in the mall, too.

 

And, if I remember correctly, this is not the first time that there has been a problem with the art concessions on NCL:eek:

[smeyer418]

And, if I remember correctly, this is not the first time that there has been a problem with the art concessions on NCL:eek:

 

 

and it won't be the last....

[Gabgab]

I diffently think it is NCL who should refund people's moeny. The reason why casue NCL collected the moeny. If NCL did not collect the moeny it would be differnt.

[Writeratsea]

And, if I remember correctly, this is not the first time that there has been a problem with the art concessions on NCL:eek:

Wasn't it last year that the art company had financial difficulties and NCL had to step in. First they booted the company and then had to clean up the mess. I remember reading posts constantly for months. I think in the end, most everyone got either art or a refund. Unless you can take the art with you, why bother? If it has to be shipped to you, then there are plenty of online companies with legitimate track records and guarantees that you can use. I just never felt that the price differential justified taking a chance on an onboard art company to actually deliver your paintings. Especially when NCL encountered problems in the past. NCL personally would have to guarantee the delivery or guarantee a refund, not the art company before I would get involved with the sea going art auctions. And state so unequivicably before the auction begins.

[pharma]

I was one of the fools that bought art work on the Pride of America in July. This was our honeymoon trip and we thought the artwork would serve as a nice momento.... NOT!! I got a letter the other day informing me that I need to dispute the charge with my credit card company, as the "Fine Art of Cruising" would be unable to fulfill my order. I contacted the management at "The Fine Art of Cruising" and from the sound of things -- NCL who collected the money, never paid this vendor. From what I could gather NCL owes this vendor money from hundreds of transactions and that is why they sent the letter out. So was it a conspiracy or is it that NCL is just holding the money for a while? Who knows -- I will not do business with either of them again and will not pay the charges for sure!

[dadof2]

I was one of the fools that bought art work on the Pride of America in July. This was our honeymoon trip and we thought the artwork would serve as a nice momento.... NOT!! I got a letter the other day informing me that I need to dispute the charge with my credit card company, as the "Fine Art of Cruising" would be unable to fulfill my order. I contacted the management at "The Fine Art of Cruising" and from the sound of things -- NCL who collected the money, never paid this vendor. From what I could gather NCL owes this vendor money from hundreds of transactions and that is why they sent the letter out. So was it a conspiracy or is it that NCL is just holding the money for a while? Who knows -- I will not do business with either of them again and will not pay the charges for sure!

 

Just a thought...you heard The Fine Art side of the story...you may now need to hear the NCL side of the story.

 

Too bad this happened on your honeymoon cruise.

 

If we buy art on a cruise, we buy it from a "local" at the port for a memento:)

[pharma]

Good Advice -- I will see what NCL has to say about the situation

Port of Call Momentos are the way to go! Thanks:D

[dadof2]

Good Advice -- I will see what NCL has to say about the situation

Port of Call Momentos are the way to go! Thanks:D

 

Please come back and post the NCL side of the story.

 

Port of Call mementos...we didn't know that on our honeymoon either....took about 25 years to learn that one:D

 

One thing we do, DW collects "menus" from any great restaurants we visit when we travel. They are great displayed in your dining room.

[AuntieBarb]

Wait! Does that mean there will no longer be ARt Auctions during the cruise? Or, will they be using a different vendor?

 

Thankfully we've gotten our art purchases, but I'll certainly think twice on our upcoming cruise. This was the 2nd vendor in 2 years to have problems, so I'll just be sipping champagne and watching for a while!

[brooklynphil]

Hey, don't go there. I love the fact that Cruise Lines offer Art Auctions. It's because of that, along with having a Casino and a Photo Shop (to name two others) that the cost of my cruises have remained reasonably cheap…………. :)

 

 

I like the free champagne:) .

[tomk3212]

We bought two paintings on the Spirit out of Seattle back in '04. Both arrived in our home back in NJ within 6 weeks of when we returned (exactly as stated in our invoice "allow 4 - 6 weeks for delivery"). So we have no complaints.

 

Dunno what company NCL contracted with on that cruise. I think it was "Art at Sea" or something to that effect. The $$ was charged to our NCL shipboard account at the end of the cruise, as usual. Several of the dancers who performed with the Jean Rogers company also assisted the auctioneer. The auctioneer was quite good & quite knowledgeable.

 

Sorry you had problems! Is NCL responsible? Yeah, they DO have to make a decision on awarding these contracts so they should be checking these company's references before agreeing to let them onboard.

 

Why do people buy art on a cruise ship? No idea! Our purchase was a complete fluke. We just liked these two particular paintings & got caught up in the auction fever...

 

Tom & Eileen

 

PS - I suspect people attend these auctions for the free champagne! It's the ONLY place onboard where you can score a free drink...lol ;)

[cruisy-suzy]

Wait! Does that mean there will no longer be ARt Auctions during the cruise? Or, will they be using a different vendor? I always find them entertaining and educating. Although I've never purchased anything.

I'm sailing tomorrow out of Seattle on the Star.

 

I'm also curious if there will still be art auctions or not. I would miss the free champagne! And I have bought a few pieces from Park West before. . .

 

Suzy

[spongerob]

Actually that is a surprisingly good comparison - since if you are unaware that your tenant is a drug dealer, you are in no way criminally liable and are therefore innocent. I would assume that NCL was unaware that the art concessionaire was going to delay or not deliver purchases and are therefore NCL are not "crooks" although the art concessionaire may be.

But in this case, the landlord is handling the money and taking a cut...guilty!

[NoPiratesPlease]

Since your on-board account must be guaranteed via a credit card I suggest you dispute the art charges with MC/VISA/AMEX and have THEM go after NCL. They can and they should. It is simple: You paid for merchandise and did not receive it in a reasonable time (that is, at all). You PAY for the CC to protect you from crooks.

 

But I also understand that NCL suspended FAC because FAC was NOT delivering the merchandise. I believe NCL intends to make good on the purchases, one way or another.

 

You don't understand on-board auctions? I don't understand on-board Bingo or hairy-chest/leg contests. So what does that prove other than what some people enjoy others wouldn't be caught dead doing?

[squeaky_1974]

Hi,

 

Actually that is a surprisingly good comparison - since if you are unaware that your tenant is a drug dealer, you are in no way criminally liable and are therefore innocent.

 

Not according to federal law in the USA, or many state and municipal laws that hold car or property owners accountable for how others use their property. I'm intimately familiar with these laws because I'm a landlord.

 

The "crack house" laws (21 U.S.C. 846) enacted during the 1980's say that any person who allows his or her property to be used for drug use and/or trafficking can and will be held criminally accountable to the same level as the person actually committing the crime.

 

The intent of laws like these is to force owners to keep an eye on people who use their property. In practice, charges are usually only placed if the illegal activity becomes a nuisance or if the owner has a powerful local enemy. I don't know whether a cruise line has ever been charged under this kind of law. I do know that NCL and other cruise lines follow US guidelines about, say, underage drinking when they are in US water. So there might be some enforcement system at work that isn't obvious to cruise customers.

 

Equal accountability as a spin on conspiracy law is unique to the controlled substances act. Standards of proof of criminal conspiracy vary depending on the act and on where it occurs. Civil liability has even more variation in terms of who can be held financially accountable for what. Breach of contract is yet another way of looking at things. I don't know what the rules and precedents are like in maritime law.:) Fact is, any, all, or none of these rules may apply.

 

Exactly where the incident occurred will affect how/if it is prosecuted. So far we've got at least three locations: the ship itself (which was either in international water, US water, or some other nation's jurisdiction), the physical office of the art dealer where the decision to not ship was made, and the state under whose jurisdiction the contract between NCL and the art dealer exists. Add this to the civil/criminal issue and you get one bear of a jurisdiction problem. It will not be settled easily or cleanly.

 

I would assume that NCL was unaware that the art concessionaire was going to delay or not deliver purchases and are therefore NCL are not "crooks" although the art concessionaire may be.

 

True. If a swindle in fact exists, NCL may be the victim. If they forwarded the money they collected from the customers to the art dealers before the trouble started, they will be the ones left out of pocket if they reimburse the customers (as they appear to be doing based on some of the posts).

 

If NCL is actually encouraging people to do a credit card charge-back, whatever is going on is extremely serious. Retailers are afraid of credit card charge-backs for very good reason.

 

If you buy anything at a store in a mall and have a problem - it is the store and not the mall that is responsible.

 

There are differences. A cruise line actively endorses and promotes the contractors it permits on board. It provides access to a captive customer base. You can walk out of a mall and drive to another one whenever you want, but when you're floating around in the middle of the ocean, the cost to exchange (i.e. to visit some other spa or art gallery instead) is really, really high. Also, a cruise line is a financial go-between for the contractors and the customers in a way that the mall is not. These things, together, imply greater oversight and greater responsibility.

 

Cheers,

 

Squeaky

[synet165]

To the previous poster who said that they had no problem with Park West Galleries, I second that.

Except for one thing, Park West doesn't have a contract with NCL. Two years ago while on the Dawn we purchased art( pictures that we liked and not because they would appreciate in value) and the dealer at that time delivered as promised. We were on the Carnival Victory a few months later and got some pictures from Park West without any problems.

We were on the Sun out of New Orleans in April and went to what passed as an Auction, all I can say is that you had to be crazy to buy anything from these new people.

They made you register for the one tiny glass of champagne and they held silent auctions, setting a minimum price and even telling the people that it was a little below retail.

On my 7 day cruise, I never saw anyone buying anything.

NCL should go back to Park West Galleries.

synet165

NCL Star June 2005

NCL Dawn April 2006

Carnival Victory August 2006

NCL Sun April 2007

[b7440]

I also purchased art on the Spirit in late March. I had spoke to the ART company a while back asking where my purchase was, they assured me that it will come in the next 3 weeks.

Once again I forgot about it for a while, then I was reading this borard,and I call customer service at NCL They lloked up my purchase and assured me they would be refunding my full purcahse price to my credit card. They told me it would take two credit card cycles??

 

I am I a fool to beleive them?? I hope not since I have already paid for the Spirit again in late October, and the Gem for next years Spring Break.

 

Has anyone else had NCL offer to refund your purchase price??

[cassie55]

I also purchased art on the Spirit in late March. I had spoke to the ART company a while back asking where my purchase was, they assured me that it will come in the next 3 weeks.

Once again I forgot about it for a while, then I was reading this borard,and I call customer service at NCL They lloked up my purchase and assured me they would be refunding my full purcahse price to my credit card. They told me it would take two credit card cycles??

 

I am I a fool to beleive them?? I hope not since I have already paid for the Spirit again in late October, and the Gem for next years Spring Break.

 

Has anyone else had NCL offer to refund your purchase price??

 

I complained to NCL 10 days ago and received a cheque today. Not sure why they didn't refund the credit card but it doesn't actually matter.

[NoPiratesPlease]

Last December, on the Dawn, we bought a number of pieces from Fine Art of Cruising. They came in a reasonable amount of time and the ONLY problem was they sent us one wrong Disney cell, but also sent the right one. We were delighted with the pieces. Now we found that between our B2B trips on the Start (Aug 11 and 18) FAC was canceled for the 2nd cruise...but we hadn't bought on the first. That's a little over a week ago the NCL shut them down. I expect it will take some time for them to clean it up.

 

Meanwhile, back in mid-June, on the Carnival Victory, Park West was running their auctions and they were a bit of a Keystone Kops operation--worst I've ever seen PW do on a ship. They STILL owe us a minor piece--took 9 weeks for the last one we really wanted to arrive--but they were right on the phone bugging us to go to a land-based auction so they could sell us more...not happening! We've had stuff slip in the frames, etc. PW is barely tolerable, not any paragon of business.

 

Art auctions are a way to kill time on sea days, time we DON'T have when we are not on vacation.

[Melissa in MN]

For those of you who did get a refund will you please email me a phone number for NCL that I can call for someone who knows what's going on? I've had no luck so far. Thanks!

meliphilia@yahoo.com

 

For those of you who would never buy a piece of art on a cruise ship, this has been a lot of fun for me. They had an original Marc Chagall piece that I bought that was a VERY good price. This latest fiasco, however, will prevent me from buying any art at all on board, and may stop me from cruising with NCL all together.

[nycjsw]

Well, we bought almost $4,000 worth of art on our cruise in June. We did not get all of our artwork but got a refund within a few weeks. I did not know anything about the problem but called NCL b/c I had not received my artwork and had lost the number to call. Another problem is some of our frames are infested with what looks like powder post beetles. I kept seeing saw dust on the floor under where I mounted the pictures. At first I was miffed but a friend and I took the pictures down. You could see track marks everywhere behind the frame along with tiny holes. :eek: Typical of cheap imported wood not stored properly.:mad:

 

This is the SECOND time in the last 5 years NCL has had problems with their art auctions. I knew they had a previous problem before I bought more art on our last cruise. I WAS TOLD that the new art auctioneer, Fine Art of Cruising, was a company OWNED by NCL.:confused: Several people within the art auction and on the ship said the art auction was now a subsidiary of NCL. This turned out to be bogus and I was livid when I found out the truth. Cleary NCL has a shared responsibility in this problem. Anyone stating otherwise is just foolish. I got my money credited back to my account about 2 weeks after making my call. When the girl on the phone starting telling me about the problem I assumed she was referring to the previous art auctioneer that went under a few years ago. I kept questioning her b/c I had talked to the Fine Art of Cruising only a few weeks earlier and they said my artwork was on the way. I was still thinking the girl from NCL was confused or misinformed until she told my that the deal with the art auction fell apart in early August. I guess that was why they stopped shipping my pieces.

 

Art auctions on ships are a far better deal than buying from a local gallery. You may be able to find it a little cheaper on the net but you usually get the piece framed on ships. Plus, at the art auction you get to see a variety of art. I would not buy investment art on a ship but if you see a piece framed for a few hundred dollars, what the heck.

[newmexicoNita]

Well, we bought almost $4,000 worth of art on our cruise in June. We did not get all of our artwork but got a refund within a few weeks. I did not know anything about the problem but called NCL b/c I had not received my artwork and had lost the number to call. Another problem is some of our frames are infested with what looks like powder post beetles. I kept seeing saw dust on the floor under where I mounted the pictures. At first I was miffed but a friend and I took the pictures down. You could see track marks everywhere behind the frame along with tiny holes. :eek: Typical of cheap imported wood not stored properly.:mad:

 

This is the SECOND time in the last 5 years NCL has had problems with their art auctions. I knew they had a previous problem before I bought more art on our last cruise. I WAS TOLD that the new art auctioneer, Fine Art of Cruising, was a company OWNED by NCL.:confused: Several people within the art auction and on the ship said the art auction was now a subsidiary of NCL. This turned out to be bogus and I was livid when I found out the truth. Cleary NCL has a shared responsibility in this problem. Anyone stating otherwise is just foolish. I got my money credited back to my account about 2 weeks after making my call. When the girl on the phone starting telling me about the problem I assumed she was referring to the previous art auctioneer that went under a few years ago. I kept questioning her b/c I had talked to the Fine Art of Cruising only a few weeks earlier and they said my artwork was on the way. I was still thinking the girl from NCL was confused or misinformed until she told my that the deal with the art auction fell apart in early August. I guess that was why they stopped shipping my pieces.

 

Art auctions on ships are a far better deal than buying from a local gallery. You may be able to find it a little cheaper on the net but you usually get the piece framed on ships. Plus, at the art auction you get to see a variety of art. I would not buy investment art on a ship but if you see a piece framed for a few hundred dollars, what the heck.

I certainly have no clue as to whether or not the art company is a subsiderar of NCL, but my gut feeling is you were taken in by them. You are right about the second time in 3 years there have been problems. One of my DDs and my comments in writing after our last cruise: "go back to Park West" I don't have a clue why NCL changed in the first place. i think a couple ther lines have as well.

 

Nita

[logcabin]

First, who in their right mind buy's "art" on a cruise ship? Sorry, but if I am going to spend big bucks on artwork, it won't be on a cruise ship. It always amazed me how many people do, though.....

[MrLee]

Just to keep the facts straight...I took the quoted text from my current cruise documents:

 

 

Independent Contractors:

 

(b) Other Independent Contractors: Other Independent Contractors: The Guest recognizes that the persons providing other personal services offered on the vessel, including but not limited to, hairdressers, manicurists, personal trainers, and/or massage therapists are independent contractors who work directly for the Guest, and that the Carrier shall not be held liable for any loss or injury arising from the performance of such services.

 

(d) For-Profit Entity: Notwithstanding that the Carrier, at the Guest’s option, arranges air transportation, hotel accommodations, ground transfers, shore excursions and other services with independent suppliers of such services, the Guest understands and agrees that the Carrier, being a “for profit entity”, earns a fee on the sale of such optional services.

 

I presume the art auctions would fall under "Other independent contractors".

 

(b) Other Suits: Any and all disputes, claims, or controversies whatsoever, other than for personal injury, illness or death of a Guest, whether brought in personam or in rem or based on contract, tort, statutory, constitutional or other legal rights, including but not limited to alleged violation of civil rights, discrimination, consumer or privacy laws, or for any losses, damages or expenses, relating to or in any way arising out of or connected with this Contract or Guest’s cruise, no matter how described, pleaded or styled, between the Guest and Carrier, with the sole exception of claims brought and litigated in small claims court, shall be referred to and resolved exclusively by binding arbitration pursuant to the United Nations Convention on the Recognition and Enforcement of Foreign Arbitral Awards (New York 1958), 21 U.S.T. 2517, 330 U.N.T.S. 3, 1970 U.S.T. LEXIS 115, 9 U.S.C. §§ 202-208 (“the Convention”) and the Federal Arbitration Act, 9 U.S.C. §§ 1, et seq., (“FAA”) solely in Miami-Dade County, Florida, U.S.A. to the exclusion of any other forum. Guest hereby consents to jurisdiction and waives any venue or other objection that may be available to any such arbitration proceeding in Miami-Dade, Florida. The arbitration shall be administered by the American Arbitration Association under its Commercial Dispute Resolution Rules and Procedures which are deemed to be incorporated herein by reference. If you have a question about the arbitration administrators mentioned above, you can contact them as follows: American Arbitration Association, Bank of America Tower, 100 Southeast 2nd Street, Suite 2300, Miami, Florida 33131; (305) 358-7777. NEITHER PARTY WILL HAVE THE RIGHT TO A JURY TRIAL OR TO ENGAGE IN PRE-ARBITRATION DISCOVERY EXCEPT AS PROVIDED IN THE APPLICABLE ARBITRATION RULES AND HEREIN, OR OTHERWISE TO LITIGATE THE CLAIM IN ANY COURT (OTHER THAN SMALL CLAIMS COURT). THE ARBITRATOR’S DECISION WILL BE FINAL AND BINDING. OTHER RIGHTS THAT GUEST OR CARRIER WOULD HAVE IN COURT ALSO MAY NOT BE AVAILABLE IN ARBITRATION. An award rendered by an arbitrator may be entered in any court having jurisdiction under the Convention or FAA. Carrier and Guest further agree to permit the taking of a deposition under oath of the Guest asserting the claim, or for whose benefit the claim is asserted, in any such arbitration. In the event this provision is deemed unenforceable by an arbitrator or court of competent jurisdiction for any reason, then and only then the provisions of Section 14 below governing venue and jurisdiction shall exclusively apply to any lawsuit involving claims described in this Section. In any event, no claim described in this Section may be brought against Carrier unless written notice giving full particulars of the claim is delivered to the Carrier within thirty (30) days of termination of the cruise and legal action on such claim is commenced within six (6) months from the date the claim arose, notwithstanding any provision of law of any state or country to the contrary.

 

© Guest Waives Right to Class Action Relief: THIS CONTRACT PROVIDES FOR THE EXCLUSIVE RESOLUTION OF DISPUTES THROUGH INDIVIDUAL LEGAL ACTION ON GUEST’S OWN BEHALF INSTEAD OF THROUGH ANY CLASS ACTION. EVEN IF THE APPLICABLE LAW PROVIDES OTHERWISE, GUEST AGREES THAT ANY ARBITRATION OR LAWSUIT AGAINST CARRIER WHATSOEVER SHALL BE LITIGATED BY GUEST INDIVIDUALLY AND NOT AS A MEMBER OF ANY CLASS OR AS PART OF A CLASS ACTION, AND GUEST EXPRESSLY AGREES TO WAIVE ANY LAW ENTITLING GUEST TO PARTICIPATE IN A CLASS ACTION. IF GUEST’S CLAIM IS SUBJECT TO ARBITRATION UNDER SECTION 10(b) ABOVE, THE ARBITRATOR SHALL HAVE NO AUTHORITY TO ARBITRATE CLAIMS ON A CLASS ACTION BASIS. GUEST AGREES THAT THIS SECTION SHALL NOT BE SEVERABLE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES FROM THE ARBITRATION CLAUSE SET FORTH IN SECTION 10(b) ABOVE, AND IF FOR ANY REASON THIS CLASS ACTION WAIVER IS UNENFORCEABLE AS TO ANY PARTICULAR CLAIM, THEN AND ONLY THEN SUCH CLAIM SHALL NOT BE SUBJECT TO ARBITRATION.

 

 

Sounds like NCL did a pretty good job of covering themselves.