Turned Away at Boarding

[R&R sail again]

I have only cruised once and had no problems, but what if you were sick, say the prior two days, and when you got to boarding, they give you the form. If you are sick or have been sick prior, do you get all your cruise refunded? or what do they do? I'm sure hoping it never happens to me. Did it ever happen to you?:eek:

 

Rose

[hammybee]

I too have wondered about this. Does the sick passenger get a refund or OBC to be applied to a future cruise? Does this apply to the entire party or just the sick passenger?

 

Based upon my own experiences, I know we contracted the virus during flights. It was the only common link amongst us. Had we flown in the day of the cruise, we would not have become sick after sailaway.

 

There was a sailing on the Statendam to Austrailia, about a year ago, where 100+ passengers had become sick with the virus, once onboard and the sailing, underway. HAL was able to trace it to a common flight.

 

I do not recall anyone posting that they had been sick and reported it, at boarding time.

[RevNeal]

When they shortened the cruise of the Ryndam by 2 full days this last March the Line had everyone sign a health questionnaire that was more detailed than usual. Anyone who answered "yes" to any of the questions were asked to be examined by a doctor. Most of them were barred boarding. I don't know what, if anything, was done for them, but I seriously doubt it.

 

I remember hearing, once aboard and in the Lido, some people bragging about how they had lied on the questionnaire. I made sure I stayed well away from them for the duration of the cruise.

[hammybee]

I found this on the web relative to a passenger being denied boarding a HAL cruise. It sounds like the timeframe for the Rev's cruise.

 

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/columnist/burbank/2007-05-22-cruise-line-norovirus_N.htm

 

The passenger denied boarding was refunded the cost of their HAL cruise. The cost of flights and hotel were not covered and HAL instructed the passenger to make claim to their insurance company. In the end, they were made whole.

 

I think it important to note that trip interruption due to the norovirus is not necessarily covered by insurance so it makes sense to make sure before purchasing such insurance when and if flights.hotel costs are involved.

[RevNeal]

I found this on the web relative to a passenger being denied boarding a HAL cruise. It sounds like the timeframe for the Rev's cruise.

 

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/columnist/burbank/2007-05-22-cruise-line-norovirus_N.htm

 

The passenger denied boarding was refunded the cost of their HAL cruise. The cost of flights and hotel were not covered and HAL instructed the passenger to make claim to their insurance company. In the end, they were made whole.

 

I think it important to note that trip interruption due to the norovirus is not necessarily covered by insurance so it makes sense to make sure before purchasing such insurance when and if flights.hotel costs are involved.

 

Thanks for the research. Yes, the Zaandam was fighting the same Norovirus bug that was hitting the Ryndam at that exact time. Our departure was March 15, this person quoted in the article was denied boarding March 6.

[cruisinbulldog]

The problem being if HA does not compensate, pax may stray from the truth..:rolleyes:

 

Bulldog

[Sunshine91]

The passenger denied boarding was refunded the cost of their HAL cruise. The cost of flights and hotel were not covered and HAL instructed the passenger to make claim to their insurance company. In the end, they were made whole.

 

Were these expenses not refunded by HAL because the pax booked these independently of HAL? Suppose one did not have travel insurance? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm. :confused:

[Krazy Kruizers]

In June 2006 we were on back-to-back cruises on the Statendam in Alaska. In Seward for the return cruise to Vancouver 12 people came down with the Norvo virus while on the land portion and were refused getting on the ship. I reported this on my notes on this board.

 

Did they get anything from HAL?? No - just help in hotel and air arrangements to get home -- the expense was all their own. Did HAL refund their money - no. And many insurance policies will not pay either.

 

Also when we were on a 22 day Amsterdam repositioning cruise in 2002 the couple at our table - wife got the virus - when they got home he went after HAL and American Express and wanted a full refund. Result - nothing. How do I know?? We kept in touch until about 1 1/2 years ago when his wife died and then he no longer communicated.

[sail7seas]

Why won't insurance pay if the reason they did not sail was due to illness?

 

Isn't illness a 'coverable' circumstance?

[DAllenTCY]

At least the attempt is being made to deny boarding to those who are ill. And HAL is the most strict of all the cruise lines that I know.

Princess Cruises has a similar health form, as of last Sunday. It basically says that if you answer "yes" to any of the questions, you will need to see the ship's medical staff prior to boarding.

Celebrity Cruises only offers a small message that if you are ill, you can visit the ship's medical staff for "free" for them to evaluate you.

Carnival Cruises doesn't ask at all, as a matter of fact yesterday a young man was vomiting in the cruise terminal prior to boarding, and was allowed onboard.

NCL did not ask as of last fall, perhaps they do now.

So, yes, the health questionaire may not be the perfect answer, but at least it's an attempt to limit Noro type outbreaks. Typically HAL guests are older, and a 24-hour type flu can complicate many other health problems. Also there are usually many more physically challenged onboard, for whom a trip to the bathroom can be very difficult to say the least.

As for being dishonest when filling out the form, think of how you would feel if you got violently sick for 2 days because someone else hid the truth.

David

[cruisinbulldog]

As for being dishonest when filling out the form, think of how you would feel if you got violently sick for 2 days because someone else hid the truth.

David

 

This is exactly want I was implying.. If there is no compensation ??:(

 

Bulldog

[Spender Nui]

Why won't insurance pay if the reason they did not sail was due to illness?

 

Isn't illness a 'coverable' circumstance?

 

 

I second the question. Isn't this why we buy insurance? And we always do.

[nchank]

I would like to see that reply too.:confused:

[cdkempton]

This really makes me think we all need to put in extra preparation for cruising. We get a flu shot each year and keep up with pneumonia shot when required as well as tetanus (sp?) We both take vitamins, especially "C" in the winter and have started to take Airborne before traveling by plane. It may sound a bit excessive, but, knock wood, have only had minor colds on a cruise. That's the best we can do to protect ourselves, plus using disinfecting wipes to clean our hands when we're on a plane. Stay healthy!! and happy cruising!

[abrauns783]

We were on a cruise the had a out break of the Norovirus. If you went the the MDs they treated you but helped you pack and put you off at the next port. What help from there, I don't what happened from than.

[DAllenTCY]

My belief is that "illness" is not something that insurance will cover. Anyone can immagine how broad that word can be construed. What should (and might) be covered is a denied boarding situation.

I was under the assumption that when you were denied boarding by HAL, that they would reimburse your cruise expenses. You would be on your own to get back home, and hopefully you have means to do that, whether it be a 10 minute drive or a flight clear across the country.

In the spirit of customer service, perhaps a future cruise credit for that amount could be negotiated.

HAL should "reward" you with at least that incentive to be honest.

Just how much it costs HAL to shorten a cruise or cancel one entirely because of a Noro outbreak can be argued, but I suspect it is huge.

If it were up to me, and it certainly isn't, I'd offer a full refund including all travel expenses to anyone who was willing to fill out the health questionaire honestly.

The safety of the elderly passengers onboard is paramount in my opinon, and it would set HAL above the other competing lines in the cruise industry.

I could see where HAL could even give the guests the option of a longer cruise (denied for 7 days, get up to a 10 day or 15 day rebooking). The idea here is to have the desireable "win/win". The ship sails with out a possible outbreak of Noro, and the "honesty" of the guest is compensated appropriately.

 

David

[WillieF]

Were these expenses not refunded by HAL because the pax booked these independently of HAL? Suppose one did not have travel insurance? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm. :confused:

 

Let's start on that premise! Regardless of how booked, anyone who travels without insurance is, in my mind, VERY FOOLISH!

[hammybee]

My belief is that "illness" is not something that insurance will cover. Anyone can immagine how broad that word can be construed. What should (and might) be covered is a denied boarding situation.

I was under the assumption that when you were denied boarding by HAL, that they would reimburse your cruise expenses. You would be on your own to get back home, and hopefully you have means to do that, whether it be a 10 minute drive or a flight clear across the country.

In the spirit of customer service, perhaps a future cruise credit for that amount could be negotiated.

HAL should "reward" you with at least that incentive to be honest.

 

David

According to the article in USA today, HAL did indeed reimburse the passenger who was denied boarding, the cost of the cruise. And based upon this, your assumption is correct. Given the passenger had insurance, HAL advised them to make an insurance claim for the airfare.

 

The insurer did not have a clause that covered being denied boarding due to a claim of being recently ill. The insurer eventually did however, pay for the airfare after interpreting the situation as a quarantine.

 

This is tricky stuff for an insurer, as it is based upon a claim of illness by the insured, not a medical provider, stating the passenger was under care and not fit for travel. It is easy to see how easily this could be abused by someone who decided to cancel their cruise at the last minute.

[hammybee]

Why won't insurance pay if the reason they did not sail was due to illness?

 

Isn't illness a 'coverable' circumstance?

 

One needs to be under doctor's care and advised, in writing, to not travel, in order for an insurance company to consider a claim. Some illnesses are automatically exempted from coverage. It varies policy to policy.

 

As it relates to the Norovirus, most people do not seek medical attention because, well, they are otherwise preoccupied tending to their own symptoms. In most cases, it passes within 24-48 hours and by this time there is no way to asertain with any certainty, what specifically was the cause of the "stomach flu" or even if the patient had been sick.

 

Most people do not read the certificate of insurance before they purchase trip cancellation insurance and assume they are covered.

 

If we are to believe the HAL source quoted in the USA Today article, , HAL denies boarding to less than 5 passengers a month. I suspect this is because so many passenger have recovered sufficiently that they do not want to risk their vacation, so they do not disclose.....and this is how it starts.......

[Solstice]

As it relates to the Norovirus, most people do not seek medical attention because, well, they are otherwise preoccupied tending to their own symptoms. In most cases, it passes within 24-48 hours and by this time there is no way to asertain with any certainty, what specifically was the cause of the "stomach flu" or even if the patient had been sick.

 

 

Absolutely correct. I used to handle liability claims for a major fast food chain. You can imagine how many claims were turned in by people who said they became ill from the food. But without medical proof that their illness was in the right time frame and directly related to the food, the claim was always successfully denied.

Sometimes the claims came from people who had actually been ill - although it's not likely it was from the food. (If you serve 10,000 burgers in one day but only one person gets sick, it's almost impossible to assume it was the burger. If 30 people get sick, then the restaurant accepts that it has a problem.) Most often, the claims were from people who were blatantly trying to abuse the system. Insurers and claims adjusters are cynical and suspicious because they've learned to be.

[hammybee]

Solstice,

 

It has been said that insurance fraud is second only to tax evasion in terms of crime in the U.S.

[sail7seas]

The insurer did not have a clause that covered being denied boarding due to a claim of being recently ill. The insurer eventually did however, pay for the airfare after interpreting the situation as a quarantine.

 

This is tricky stuff for an insurer, as it is based upon a claim of illness by the insured, not a medical provider, stating the passenger was under care and not fit for travel. It is easy to see how easily this could be abused by someone who decided to cancel their cruise at the last minute.

 

 

 

One needs to be under doctor's care and advised, in writing, to not travel, in order for an insurance company to consider a claim. Some illnesses are automatically exempted from coverage. It varies policy to policy.

 

As it relates to the Norovirus, most people do not seek medical attention because, well, they are otherwise preoccupied tending to their own symptoms. In most cases, it passes within 24-48 hours and by this time there is no way to asertain with any certainty, what specifically was the cause of the "stomach flu" or even if the patient had been sick.

 

 

If the cruiser is denied boarding because a member of the medical staff deemed them ill and said they could not cruise...... that is not a decision made independently by the cruiser. They presented themselves at the ship with the intention of boarding. In effect, either willingly or not, they were at that point being attended to by a medical professsional.

 

The medical staff person needs to give them a written statement denying them access because of their perception they are ill and infectious.

 

I think any guest denied boarding because of the presumption of NoroVirus is entitled to that statement from ship's medical personnel. Does that not change the situation as pertains to their claim to their insurance carrier?

[MercedMike]

As a sidelight to this discussion ...

 

Most ships sell all sorts of remedies in the boutique shop -- but NOT anti-diarrheals (Immodium or similar.)

 

It appears that the reason is to force any passenger with that problem to see the ships doctor.

 

Since a mild attack can occur very easily while traveling, we always carry Immodium with us.

 

I have one friend who just takes one tablet every morning while traveling. I have no idea whether that is safe or effective.

[hammybee]

I think any guest denied boarding because of the presumption of NoroVirus is entitled to that statement from ship's medical personnel. Does that not change the situation as pertains to their claim to their insurance carrier?

 

Apparently it was sufficient in the case of the person named within the article. The insurance company eventually considered it a quarantine.

 

The article also said that it helped that the passengers denied boarding returned home instead of making a vacation out of the home port.

[CDRMark]

When boarding Rotterdam on August 10th, we answered honestly questions which caused us to be thoroughly interrogated by shipboard medical personnel. We were informed that if we had been denied boarding we would have been given a refund for the cruise portion of our trip (our air and hotel was not thru HAL so no knowledge about that).

I would have asked for a note from the doc to provide my insurance company, but no idea what the response to any claim would have been as we had no reason to check.

If I can find my insurance paperwork I'll look.

Cheers

Mark