NCL Service Charge - Can this be changed? waved?

[mbisson]

I would like to know if any of the people who removed the autotips called NCL before they agreed to the "terms and conditions" for the cruise that they had to have accepted in the booking and said they do not agree to these terms and conditions or if they agreed to them, then changed their mind and disagreed to them on the ship.

 

IMO-we have to face it James. NCL shouldn't allow removal of autotips, service fee or whatever and as long as they do, regrettably, some will stiff the staff.

[salty dingo]

NCL shouldn't allow removal of autotips, service fee or whatever and as long as they do, regrettably, some will stiff the staff.

 

Amen to that. There's always going to be a few bozos who have their own view of the world, and who genuinely do not belive in tipping so much.

 

I personally would like to see the cruise billed as all-inclusive, no tipping required, and the service charge becomes part of the fare you pay up front. As long as they continue to bill it to the onboard account, people will consider it a tip, which most people consider optional. They are not optional on a cruise ship.

[wilson9112]

I was watching the travel channel about do's and don'ts for cruises. Would you believe they actually said to adjust your charges if you feel the need. Like it was no big deal to do it and made it sound so easy, as if you just simply requested it and it was done:rolleyes:

[cruisePRN]

. As long as they continue to bill it to the onboard account, people will consider it a tip, which most people consider optional. They are not optional on a cruise ship.

 

Of course they ARE optional or you wouldn't be allowed to remove them. There is a huge difference between stiffing the staff just because you can and not tipping for poor service. If everything was just hunky dorry and you didn't tip that's not fair.

[salty dingo]

If everything was just hunky dorry and you didn't tip that's not fair.

 

That's the problem. It's not fair, and far too many people do not play fair nowadays. It's a different class of traveler today, people who don't care about anything but how much they have spend. If it's optional, they won't spend it.

 

Also, there are travelers from other countries where tipping is not the norm. They are not used to doing it, and they see no reason to change. I can see their point... so to address it, they don't call it a tip anymore, and it's not optional.

[ATLJFL]

I personally would like to see the cruise billed as all-inclusive, no tipping required, and the service charge becomes part of the fare you pay up front. As long as they continue to bill it to the onboard account, people will consider it a tip, which most people consider optional. They are not optional on a cruise ship.

 

A while back HAL used to have a "tipping optional" policy. I don't know if it was just figured into the fare or not but I would like to see that again. The whole thing is a bit phychological but if a cruise line adds the tip, service fee or whatever you want to call it into the cruise fare, then they can disburse it to their employees however they choose. Many people, myself included, would tip anyway in appreciation for good service received. I have always been very generous in rewarding good service.

 

I think where people have issue is when they feel as if tipping is an entitlement rather than a reward or thank you to their server. Some also feel that a compant (cruise line in this case), should bear the responsuibility for paying their help and not passing staff payroll onto their cruising customers.

 

In the case of NCL and their freestyle, this issue came up last week among fellow group passengers on the Star. There were some outstanding servers that we felt deserved a very generous reward for their great service. Others were mediocre and deserved their price of the tip pool as was the policy of this line. However, there were a number of other servers who gave very poor service and in some cases hardly no acceptabe service at all. Having to pay so they receive their "entitlement" "tips" is almost an insult to the passengers.

 

Many have found that in this freestyle concept there is far less incentive to give good service. Servers in the dining rooms rarely if ever see their customers more than once. This may very well explain why on NCL the housekeeping staff gets the highest reviews for good service. It is bercause they are working with the same customers throughout the cruise.

 

In any event, since there is no relationship between customer and server on freestyle, why not just add the charges into the fare and say no tipping required. Then people can give more to those they feel gave them good service, and those that want to earn more will offer good service for additional tips.

 

Jeanne :)

[electricron]

A while back HAL used to have a "tipping optional" policy. I don't know if it was just figured into the fare or not but I would like to see that again. The whole thing is a bit phychological but if a cruise line adds the tip, service fee or whatever you want to call it into the cruise fare, then they can disburse it to their employees however they choose. Many people, myself included, would tip anyway in appreciation for good service received. I have always been very generous in rewarding good service.

 

I think where people have issue is when they feel as if tipping is an entitlement rather than a reward or thank you to their server. Some also feel that a compant (cruise line in this case), should bear the responsuibility for paying their help and not passing staff payroll onto their cruising customers.

 

In the case of NCL and their freestyle, this issue came up last week among fellow group passengers on the Star. There were some outstanding servers that we felt deserved a very generous reward for their great service. Others were mediocre and deserved their price of the tip pool as was the policy of this line. However, there were a number of other servers who gave very poor service and in some cases hardly no acceptabe service at all. Having to pay so they receive their "entitlement" "tips" is almost an insult to the passengers.

 

Many have found that in this freestyle concept there is far less incentive to give good service. Servers in the dining rooms rarely if ever see their customers more than once. This may very well explain why on NCL the housekeeping staff gets the highest reviews for good service. It is because they are working with the same customers throughout the cruise.

 

In any event, since there is no relationship between customer and server on freestyle, why not just add the charges into the fare and say no tipping required. Then people can give more to those they feel gave them good service, and those that want to earn more will offer good service for additional tips.

 

Jeanne :)

 

Your arguments sound good at first glance. But upon reflection of a longer glance, they aren't.

 

First, and foremost, every other main stream cruise line either charges for tips afterwards, or suggests you add tips yourself afterwards, at the same $10/day. For two passengers in a cabin, that's $140 a week. If NCL added the service charge to the fares, there fares would appear $140 higher than their competition. They would lose customers on the higher fares alone.

 

Additionally, they would have to include a share of the extra $140 in the commissionable fees to travel agents. The crew would end up with less than the full $140.

 

Lastly, if the service issue wasn't addressed adequately, you'll be able to reduce the service charges. If it were included within the fares, you can't.

 

What NCL does is better for you in the long run, better for the crew, and better for themselves, in both smaller commissions to travel agents and having more competitive low fares.

 

It's a win-win situation as it is, your solution is a lose-lose proposition. The only way NCL will do what you wish is for every other cruise line to do so too. Just like the new surcharges on diesel fuel, once one cruise line sets a policy, eventually all others will follow. To do otherwise would put them at a competitive disadvantage on fare prices.

[cruise4kicks]

Ron, the same arguments have been made here repeatedly. Neither side seems convinced. This horse is waaaaaaay beyond dead.

[mj cruiser]

When the original poster says "get an education" they are obviously very ignorant about where many of these people come from that work on cruise ships. Many are very poor and they do not have this opportunity to get an education. We talked with many crew members who work months without seeing their wives, husbands and kids to send money back just so they can eat. The hours that many of the crew put in is amazing. While you are sleeping or relaxing they are working some 18 hours a day.

 

So if you have a bad experience with one or two crew members you are taking away from all of the crew by not paying the autotips. NCL I find is extremely cheap comparted to most cruiselines. I am sure you can find a cruiseline that is more expensive, thousands of dollars and you will not have to autotip. Go with them.

[ATLJFL]

Your arguments sound good at first glance. But upon reflection of a longer glance, they aren't.

 

First, and foremost, every other main stream cruise line either charges for tips afterwards, or suggests you add tips yourself afterwards, at the same $10/day. For two passengers in a cabin, that's $140 a week. If NCL added the service charge to the fares, there fares would appear $140 higher than their competition. They would lose customers on the higher fares alone.

 

Additionally, they would have to include a share of the extra $140 in the commissionable fees to travel agents. The crew would end up with less than the full $140.

 

Lastly, if the service issue wasn't addressed adequately, you'll be able to reduce the service charges. If it were included within the fares, you can't.

 

What NCL does is better for you in the long run, better for the crew, and better for themselves, in both smaller commissions to travel agents and having more competitive low fares.

 

It's a win-win situation as it is, your solution is a lose-lose proposition. The only way NCL will do what you wish is for every other cruise line to do so too. Just like the new surcharges on diesel fuel, once one cruise line sets a policy, eventually all others will follow. To do otherwise would put them at a competitive disadvantage on fare prices.

 

First of all, I was unaware that this was an argument or even a friendly debate, rather just each of us coming up with viable suggestions on what would work best for us.

 

If any cruise line charged $140.00 more than another line but said that tipping was optional and there was no mandatory service charge then we could all do the math and understand that the fares are the same. As it is NCL had far better fares (more than HAL) on a similar Mex Riv itinerary, but HAL has far better service overall so it's a matter of you get what you pay for.

 

As for the comment of sharing a service charge with the T/A, not so. T/A's get commission on the cruise fare portion and the added charge built into the fare could be added into the NCF (non commissionable fees) and there would be no loss to the cruise line. Also when any cruise line pays a commission to a T/A this is not a loss to the line because the T/A sells the cabins and T/A's are a benefit to the line since they would otherwise have to have more of their own employees on the payroll and pay them salaries and benefits that supercede the commissions paid to a T/A.

 

As for lower commissions to T/A with NCL, no so with all. Commissions are often based on volume of the travel agency or company. NCL pays 17 percent to us which is higher than most mainstream lines and still has lower fares overall for comparable categories and itineraries. Even still, the group of passengers I was with last week concurred that due to the poor service and difficulty in making dinner reservations, that although they enjoyed the cruise for the most part, they would prefer another line for their future cruises. Price is a factor but it is not the make or break decision. It may not work for all, but if tipping was built into the fare and then tipping was listed as optional, passengers would not have any resentment about being forced to tip for poor or substandard service. The money would wind up the same but it would be presented in a way that would create more friendly relations with the passengers. And passengers who are very happy with service would tip extra. This is merely my opinion, and not an argument. Everyone thinks differently.

[Toyz711]

actually, all NCF were qouted separate from the cruise price, not as part of the cruise price. i have never had the port charges or taxes added to the 1st qoute. even if they did add the service charge to the NCF charges....it would be separate and follks would still complain about paying it.

[electricron]

actually, all NCF were qouted separate from the cruise price, not as part of the cruise price. i have never had the port charges or taxes added to the 1st qoute. even if they did add the service charge to the NCF charges....it would be separate and follks would still complain about paying it.

 

And many will still be queing up to get it all removed for the slighest reasons.

 

As for price, many will figure out the differences, but many will not. If just 10% looked only at the listed fares, that's still 10% less customers choosing another cheaper cruise line.

On the cheaper fares, like some $249 fares in a few weeks, and additional $70 tacked ontop it might influence some to sail on a different ship or line.

Which cruise would you choose if you're tight financially, the $249 cruise or the $319 cruise?

[salty dingo]

Your arguments sound good at first glance. But upon reflection of a longer glance, they aren't.

 

Lots of good points there, but I can think of some ways to address them.

 

How about billing the fare at the time the final payment is due? The fare can stay the same, so the competitive issue and TA commission issues go away. But, the service charge would have to be paid before the cruise starts. That would make the on-board bill smaller, and perhaps people would spend more on it, I don't know.

 

What about people who refuse to open an onboard account? I believe that they do not insist that you do so. How are those people supposed to pay the service charge?

 

In any event, it should definitely NOT be adjustable downward for poor service. That should be handled by reporting the poor service on the comment cards or in a letter. That will have a *far* greater impact on the problem employee than any tip ever will. It could get them canned. Reducing a tip only helps the passenger save money, and it serves no other purpose.

[Thrifty]

Of course BeckyThane is correct that few, if any, of the contributors to this discussion are going to modify their views because of the arguments presented here, but perhaps NCL monitors these comments and if they do they may learn that, while many of their employees like the the way tips are going to be handled henceforth, many of their customers do not like it at all. While they are unlikely to immediately change course as a result of such criticisms, maybe they'll watch the end of cruise evaluation forms a little more carefully in the months to come to see if the change was a mistake and correct it quicker and minimize the damage if they realize it was.

[Toyz711]

after what they said on the travel channel "cruising dos and don'ts", i won't count on that. the person they were talking to was not from NCL, but from another cruiseline (i didn't read which one and i don't know one uniform from another) but they did talk about the "ease" of auto-tipping and service charges and how ALL the cruises were going in that direction.

[ATLJFL]

And many will still be queing up to get it all removed for the slighest reasons.

 

As for price, many will figure out the differences, but many will not. If just 10% looked only at the listed fares, that's still 10% less customers choosing another cheaper cruise line.

On the cheaper fares, like some $249 fares in a few weeks, and additional $70 tacked ontop it might influence some to sail on a different ship or line.

Which cruise would you choose if you're tight financially, the $249 cruise or the $319 cruise?

 

I agree with you that if there was a $70.00 difference and people were very tight on money they would choose the lower cost cruise. Then again, passengers that book $249.00 cruises (is this for a week???) perhaps they are not likely to be as discriminating about having impeccable service, and just want a cheap cruise and understand it's a budget cruise.

 

There are a lot of different mentalities of passengers when it comes to cruisers so not all would think the same. The group I was with last week on the Star paid an average of $1500.00 per person for BA and BB balcony stateroom with round trip air, transfers and amenities. The members of the group were primarily senior citizens and well seasoned cruisers. They were not on a tight budget but they were also sensiblly thrifty, and they do expect quality for the price paid. The cost of the cruise was a bargain when compared to a seven day with one less port in a comparable category on HAL for this time. The HAL rates would have been $600 to $800 per person higher than the NCL was. So NCL was chosen for the itinerary and the lower price, (HAL did not go to Acapulco).

 

Since these were well seasoned repeat cruisers, they have a lot of prior cruise experiences to compare it with. As it is senior citizens remember well the days when there were no specialty restaurants, waiters and bar servers knew them by name and what their favorite drink was, lobster was on the menu, tuxedos were the norm for two nights of a seven day cruise, and service was five star. (Although most gentlemen were happy to leave the tux at home ). LOL. These are not people that stiff the help. Far from it. But these are people that do not like the changes they see when service is not what it should be and they feel forced to pay for poor service. These people take two to four cruises per year, and some even more. And when they have a lot of lines to choose from they will choose those where they enjoyed the service the most.

 

Keep in mind that those from the older school of thinking remember the days when people had to work hard to EARN their money and there were much higher expectations. Now even in schools everyone gets a gold star and is passed along lest their self esteem is damaged.

 

Anyway, there are a lot of different kinds of passengers on any given cruise. But if the cruise lines are concerned about whether passengers are deciding between a $319 or $249 cruise fare, they may be missing the point that those that are willing to pay $1,500 plus expect good service, and if these higher paying frequent cruisers do not receive good service but still be expected to pay for poor service, they will not be back. :o

[Cosmopolitan]

IMO-we have to face it James. NCL shouldn't allow removal of autotips, service fee or whatever and as long as they do, regrettably, some will stiff the staff.

 

SAD but TRUE:(

[ohioNCLcruiser]

I would love it if when a guest came to the front desk to remove the tip because they wanted to tip just the people that they thought helped them, they would line up the crew and the person would have to go down the line and tip them cash while people watched. Haha

[Cosmopolitan]

I would love it if when a guest came to the front desk to remove the tip because they wanted to tip just the people that they thought helped them, they would line up the crew and the person would have to go down the line and tip them cash while people watched. Haha

 

Excellent idea!

 

I second the motion:)

[cruise4kicks]

First of all, I was unaware that this was an argument or even a friendly debate, rather just each of us coming up with viable suggestions on what would work best for us.

ar-gu-ment: 1. a reasoned offering in proof 2. discourse intended to persuade.

[HighSeaslover]

On our last RCCL cruise I did go to the service desk and had my tips removed. We took the same amount and tip those personally that serviced us well. I felt there was so many that did a great job, but our cabin stewart did NOTHING!. I did not want to tip her. On a 7 day cruise we NEVER received turn down service, we had specks of toothpaste on our mirror several evenings. We watched a candy wrapper on the floor all week. I did call the housekeeping desk and had an office down to our cabin twice! Still nothing! Our sheets were NEVER changed. My makeup was still on the pillow everynight!

[salty dingo]

I did call the housekeeping desk and had an office down to our cabin twice! Still nothing! Our sheets were NEVER changed. My makeup was still on the pillow everynight!

 

Wow, even after calling the supervisor, nothing improved? I would have reported this on the comment cards, so both the steward and supervisor would be held accountable. Tips are not the way to do this.

 

Plus, with Freestyle dining, you can't tip your dining room servers. You have a different one each night, and it would not be feasible to remember each one and dole out cash. It just would not work on NCL.

[greywillow]

As it is NCL had far better fares (more than HAL) on a similar Mex Riv itinerary, but HAL has far better service overall so it's a matter of you get what you pay for.

One of the great flaws of this board is the frequency of sweeping, unsupportable generalities such as this one. On our HAl cruise we experienced no better service than on our NCL cruises, and, in fact, service in the main dining room was worse.

 

The only thing we found "better" on HAL was that you could get the main dining room menu cooked to order for you in the buffet, rather than lukewarm and overcooked as it was served in the main dining room because they served 800 people simultaneously.

[newmexicoNita]

One of the great flaws of this board is the frequency of sweeping, unsupportable generalities such as this one. On our HAl cruise we experienced no better service than on our NCL cruises, and, in fact, service in the main dining room was worse.

 

The only thing we found "better" on HAL was that you could get the main dining room menu cooked to order for you in the buffet, rather than lukewarm and overcooked as it was served in the main dining room because they served 800 people simultaneously.

Amazing, I thought I was the only one with this view. We were on HAL last November/Dec. the cruise was wonderful, we had a great cabin and a good cabin steward. Our dining room service (opinion shared by all 8 at the table) was just fair. There wasn't anything really wrong, it just wasn't fantastic. Service can vary from ship to ship and no one should generalize about an overall line.

 

Nita

[cruisePRN]

 

There are a lot of different mentalities of passengers when it comes to cruisers so not all would think the same. The group I was with last week on the Star paid an average of $1500.00 per person for BA and BB balcony stateroom with round trip air, transfers and amenities. The members of the group were primarily senior citizens and well seasoned cruisers. They were not on a tight budget but they were also sensiblly thrifty, and they do expect quality for the price paid.

 

Since these were well seasoned repeat cruisers, they have a lot of prior cruise experiences to compare it with. As it is senior citizens remember well the days when there were no specialty restaurants, waiters and bar servers knew them by name and what their favorite drink was, lobster was on the menu, tuxedos were the norm for two nights of a seven day cruise, and service was five star. (Although most gentlemen were happy to leave the tux at home ). LOL. These are not people that stiff the help. Far from it. But these are people that do not like the changes they see when service is not what it should be and they feel forced to pay for poor service. These people take two to four cruises per year, and some even more. And when they have a lot of lines to choose from they will choose those where they enjoyed the service the most.

 

Keep in mind that those from the older school of thinking remember the days when people had to work hard to EARN their money and there were much higher expectations. Now even in schools everyone gets a gold star and is passed along lest their self esteem is damaged.

 

Anyway, there are a lot of different kinds of passengers on any given cruise. But if the cruise lines are concerned about whether passengers are deciding between a $319 or $249 cruise fare, they may be missing the point that those that are willing to pay $1,500 plus expect good service, and if these higher paying frequent cruisers do not receive good service but still be expected to pay for poor service, they will not be back. :o

 

Hey, how'd you know what I was thinking LOL:D I take 3-4 cruises per year and my Pride of hawaii was a first and last on NCL. The service and food did not live up to my expectations and the room stewart and i had a pissing match over who gets use of the fridge. Every day i would put my diet cokes in it and remove the alcohol I don't drink and every day she'd remove my diet cokes and put back her inventory. They had turn down service? I wouldn't know :confused: I have read poor reviews about the American crew and I've read that the foreign crews are more like other cruise lines.