NCL Service Charge - Can this be changed? waved?

[mbisson]

I would love it if when a guest came to the front desk to remove the tip because they wanted to tip just the people that they thought helped them, they would line up the crew and the person would have to go down the line and tip them cash while people watched. Haha

 

ROTFL-great idea!

[ATLJFL]

One of the great flaws of this board is the frequency of sweeping, unsupportable generalities such as this one. On our HAl cruise we experienced no better service than on our NCL cruises, and, in fact, service in the main dining room was worse.

 

The only thing we found "better" on HAL was that you could get the main dining room menu cooked to order for you in the buffet, rather than lukewarm and overcooked as it was served in the main dining room because they served 800 people simultaneously.

 

Like it or not unfortuanately it is human nature to remember the bad things and simply expect the good when it comes to travel.

 

I cruise with a number of well season older travelers who have been on roughly three to 5 cruises per year on the average over a forth year time period, and so they have a lot to compare. I have been on dozens of HAL cruises over a long period of time and although there may be one or two incidents over many years where one waiter or one steward was not up to par, overall the service was at least what one would expect.

 

The recent NCL experience was a first NCL cruise for at least 3/4 of the group and unfortunately there was not just one waiter that was problematic. Our cabin steward was excellent and on this 8 day cruise two meals of the cruise privided excellent serice (one breakfast and one dinner). Throughout the rest of the cruise the service was disorganized, slow at best, and on in the majority of cases things were far from even mediocre. Serving stations in three dining rooms were just tables with a table cloth over them with other things like notebooks and backpacks on the floor below. The serving tables had food sitting on them but not served for as long as 1/2 hour. Waiters were telling us they were overworked and too busy which although may be true is not something to tell your guests. Overall it was clear that there were may cutbacks on NCl from overworked wait staff to entertqainment that ended early to performers who said they were too tired to continue to perform, and recorded music in the showrooms and for dancing after 11:00 p.m. Sorry but this is not the case with HAL, RCCL, Carnival, Celebrity, Princess, Oceania, and Costa all of who we sailed on very recently.

 

NCL may not be this way all the time, however as I said when there are other cruises to compare with and a cruise line does not deliver, then people will simply not be back and choose to book their future cruise on other lines. It is unfortunate since NCL may have other sailings that are better but once people experieence so much poor quality serivice on one sailing they will likely not try another cruise with the same line. Everyone wants the best they can get from their vacation dollar. It is just the way it is.

[LaJollaCruiser]

[....]

As for the whole tipping situation I don't understand why NCL (and the whole service industry) doesn't just pay people a regular salary instead of having them depend on the kindness of strangers (or lack thereof) to make ends meet. This whole practice of tipping is archaic and should be done away with. Tipping should not be done out of guilt or (especially) mandate. It should be an added expression of a job well done and not a forced offering to help pay the salaries of NCL or any other personnel. I always tip and do so well. But when I am forced to pay an additional forced gratuity or service charge or whatever other euphemism you may choose to use for a job that was shoddy at best then I am offended. JMO.

 

In my experience, in places where tipping has been abolished (particularly former Soviet bloc countries), service is abominable. The only sure-fire way to ensure good service is by having the customer tip the servant. Period.

[Wilba]

In my experience, in places where tipping has been abolished (particularly former Soviet bloc countries), service is abominable. The only sure-fire way to ensure good service is by having the customer tip the servant. Period.

 

Sorry Can't agree with you there. The best service I have experienced was Star Cruises in Asia. Tipping was not allowed. On both cruises I did the service was as good as the best I've received in nearly 60 cruises. Good service is nothing to do with tipping, but good man management by the companies that employ them.

[salty dingo]

I also don't think good service and tipping are necessarily related. Good service comes from satisfied employees, and there are other ways to satisfy employees.

 

In my view, an employee who gives bad service either has bad management, or is in the wrong job. It's up to the company to help people who are in the wrong job to move along to the next job.

 

In this process, it is inevitable that occasionally we will find bad service, and tipping probably won't make much difference.

[Wilba]

I also don't think good service and tipping are necessarily related. Good service comes from satisfied employees, and there are other ways to satisfy employees.

 

In my view, an employee who gives bad service either has bad management, or is in the wrong job. It's up to the company to help people who are in the wrong job to move along to the next job.

 

In this process, it is inevitable that occasionally we will find bad service, and tipping probably won't make much difference.

I'm with you 100%

[zqvol]

In my experience, in places where tipping has been abolished (particularly former Soviet bloc countries), service is abominable. The only sure-fire way to ensure good service is by having the customer tip the servant. Period.

 

Cannot agree at all. Best cruise line service we have ever had is on Sea Dream. Tipping is not allowed and the service is so over the top as to be indescribable.

[CC Help Michell]

Cannot agree at all. Best cruise line service we have ever had is on Sea Dream. Tipping is not allowed and the service is so over the top as to be indescribable.

 

At $4000 - $5000 per person for a seven day cruise on a 110 passenger yacht, you better believe I'd expect "indescribable" service. Tipping isn't allowed because it's a true all-inclusive experience (as evidenced by the price). That kind of experience just doesn't translate or compare to a mainstream cruiseline, where tipping IS customary. Sea Dream's employees wouldn't have the same concerns employees on the mainstream cruiselines do, either -- at those cruise fares, a "living wage" is part of their compensation.

 

<shrug> These threads never go anywhere, and nobody has ever convinced anybody else. The bottom line is that adding gratuities by autotip is becoming increasingly common, and as those for whom "envelope tipping" was the norm start to age and stop cruising, the autotip will eventually just be another "port charge" or "fuel surcharge" to take into account when planning your cruise. The only constant in life, and in business, is change.

[newmexicoNita]

Hey, how'd you know what I was thinking LOL:D I take 3-4 cruises per year and my Pride of hawaii was a first and last on NCL. The service and food did not live up to my expectations and the room stewart and i had a pissing match over who gets use of the fridge. Every day i would put my diet cokes in it and remove the alcohol I don't drink and every day she'd remove my diet cokes and put back her inventory. They had turn down service? I wouldn't know :confused: I have read poor reviews about the American crew and I've read that the foreign crews are more like other cruise lines.

a few to things here: NCL and NCLA are not quite the same. Your choice not to cruise NCLA or even NCL again is simply that, your choice. I don't think losing a few cruisers is going to hurt the line. Next, your experience with your room stewardess is very unusual I am sure. I have cruised many lines, have never had the room steward even open the fridge to my knowledge. No turn down service, that isn't typical for NCL I can assure you.

 

Nita

[newmexicoNita]

Like it or not unfortuanately it is human nature to remember the bad things and simply expect the good when it comes to travel.

 

I cruise with a number of well season older travelers who have been on roughly three to 5 cruises per year on the average over a forth year time period, and so they have a lot to compare. I have been on dozens of HAL cruises over a long period of time and although there may be one or two incidents over many years where one waiter or one steward was not up to par, overall the service was at least what one would expect.

 

The recent NCL experience was a first NCL cruise for at least 3/4 of the group and unfortunately there was not just one waiter that was problematic. Our cabin steward was excellent and on this 8 day cruise two meals of the cruise privided excellent serice (one breakfast and one dinner). Throughout the rest of the cruise the service was disorganized, slow at best, and on in the majority of cases things were far from even mediocre. Serving stations in three dining rooms were just tables with a table cloth over them with other things like notebooks and backpacks on the floor below. The serving tables had food sitting on them but not served for as long as 1/2 hour. Waiters were telling us they were overworked and too busy which although may be true is not something to tell your guests. Overall it was clear that there were may cutbacks on NCl from overworked wait staff to entertqainment that ended early to performers who said they were too tired to continue to perform, and recorded music in the showrooms and for dancing after 11:00 p.m. Sorry but this is not the case with HAL, RCCL, Carnival, Celebrity, Princess, Oceania, and Costa all of who we sailed on very recently.

 

NCL may not be this way all the time, however as I said when there are other cruises to compare with and a cruise line does not deliver, then people will simply not be back and choose to book their future cruise on other lines. It is unfortunate since NCL may have other sailings that are better but once people experieence so much poor quality serivice on one sailing they will likely not try another cruise with the same line. Everyone wants the best they can get from their vacation dollar. It is just the way it is.

I don't think we do remember only the bad: I think at first (fresh from an experience) this may be true, but only those who dwell on the bad will remember 1 bad experience over several good ones. My experience with groups and all lines, NCL as well is very different. As I have mentioned we just did a group on the Star, yes, we had one couple that felt it was their duty to gripe and make sure I heard every word. Everyone else had a great time or a good time. Some have already re-booked on NCL.

 

Nita

[newmexicoNita]

Cannot agree at all. Best cruise line service we have ever had is on Sea Dream. Tipping is not allowed and the service is so over the top as to be indescribable.

and get real: the price of a SeaDream cruise is 2 t 4 times more than a mid level, mass marketed line. Not everyone can or chooses to spend that kind of money. I have booked them, always with very positive responses, but the majority of us just will never have a chance to cruise on a line like SeaDream.

 

Nita

[cruisePRN]

a few to things here: NCL and NCLA are not quite the same. Your choice not to cruise NCLA or even NCL again is simply that, your choice. I don't think losing a few cruisers is going to hurt the line. Next, your experience with your room stewardess is very unusual I am sure. I have cruised many lines, have never had the room steward even open the fridge to my knowledge. No turn down service, that isn't typical for NCL I can assure you.

 

Nita

 

Nita, I stated the "american' crew" and did differentiate from the NCL which I've heard is better then NCLA. I've been crusing so long and so often I've outgrown the mass market lines and the run of the mill ports. The hawaiian itinary was fabulous and NCLA had the best itinary of anyone i could find. I realise the room steward was an anomaly but the dining room service wasn't much better.

[newmexicoNita]

On our last RCCL cruise I did go to the service desk and had my tips removed. We took the same amount and tip those personally that serviced us well. I felt there was so many that did a great job, but our cabin stewart did NOTHING!. I did not want to tip her. On a 7 day cruise we NEVER received turn down service, we had specks of toothpaste on our mirror several evenings. We watched a candy wrapper on the floor all week. I did call the housekeeping desk and had an office down to our cabin twice! Still nothing! Our sheets were NEVER changed. My makeup was still on the pillow everynight!

I can understand your being a bit upset to put it mildly: I do take exception to the sheet thing, normally hotels and cruise ships no longer change sheets: makeup on the pillow? Well, I would think the steward would get you a clean pillow slip, but I would also think, make up remover before you go to bed would have kept the makeup off the pillow slip. I noticed, just the other night, we had gone to bed rather late after company had left. I didn't use make up remover and woke up to a dirty pillow slip: YUK!!!!!!

[greywillow]

In my experience, in places where tipping has been abolished (particularly former Soviet bloc countries), service is abominable. The only sure-fire way to ensure good service is by having the customer tip the servant. Period.

"Period." This is how someone tries to make a point when he has nothing cogent to say in support of that point.

 

Your choice of the word "servant" sums up your attitude perfectly, I'd say. And you, I suppose, are the "master?" If I were your "servant," I'd tell you exactly what to do with your money.

[Wilba]

I feel I had to write this in defence of the poster who ‘Dared To Ask about Removing Tips/Service Charge’.The question of tipping will always be an issue between Europeans & Americans & the majority of Posts favour the ‘Auto Tip’ because the majority of posters on this site are American.

I often see references to ‘Europeans don’t or won’t tip’ There is good reason for this, as we abolished the Slave Trade about a hundred years ago & at that point people made the choice to work or not work for the wage on offer, or fight their cause to improve their standard of living. Certainly in the last 50 years in the UK I cannot recall any full time employee being paid such a low wage that ‘Tips’ became their main source of income as they appear to do in certain jobs in the US. Without trying to sound offensive please help me understand why you are prepared accept that some people are paid an ‘insult’ of a wage, & everyone else has to fill their wage packet on behalf of the employer. Whenever I travel to the US I do fall in line with your ‘custom’ & hand out tips like a walking vending machine to every smuck who picks up my bag , puts it on a conveyer, takes it off, puts it on a bus & then reminds me how much an hour he/she earns. Surely the level of pay these people earn is an indictment on your Society & maybe ‘tipping’ them is your way of easing your conscience. The fact is, I’m more than capable of lifting my own bag onto their conveyer, bus etc.

 

Posters often ask ‘Who & How much should we tip in Europe.

 

Taxi Drivers, Hairdressers (inc Beauty/Facial/Spa Etc)......... 10%

This is not because they are lowly paid, but more a custom harking back to the days when only the Gentry could afford Taxi’s & Hairdressers & tipped their underlings accordingly.

 

Wait Staff in a restaurant........... 10%

Yes, if we go back in time Wait Staff tended to be part time/casual employment where tips were the bulk of their wage packet. This I suspect is no longer the case as the need for more professionalism is required.

Some Restaurants are now adding 10% Service Charge to their final bill & where this is the case, people do not normally tip beyond this charge. It’s also worth noting that the Service Charge has no legal standing in law & can be removed by the customer at will, although this would be a rare occurrence

Hotel Bellboy......... £1or £2

 

Porters at an Airport/Pier/Railway Station......... £1or £2

This is probably the one time people are working for ‘Tips Alone’ as many will be doing it to enhance their Full/Part Time wage packet from another job.

Beyond these the ‘Tourist/Traveller’ would be unlikely to encounter anyone else requiring a tip & would never be ‘reminded’ by anyone to ‘give me a tip’

We now have a ‘Minimum Wage’ in the UK (about $11 an hour) but this is a very recent law that has not made any difference to the way we tip, or whom we tip.

 

 

As for NCL’s new policy of adding a Service Charge into the small print of their new contract, this I fear will fall foul of UK law, as hidden charges must be ‘up front’ on advertising in the UK. It will be interesting to see how this pans out and I’m sure it’s only time before all the cruise lines follow suit.

 

[HurricaneSally]

I feel I had to write this in defence of the poster who ‘Dared To Ask about Removing Tips/Service Charge’.The question of tipping will always be an issue between Europeans & Americans & the majority of Posts favour the ‘Auto Tip’ because the majority of posters on this site are American.

I often see references to ‘Europeans don’t or won’t tip’ There is good reason for this, as we abolished the Slave Trade about a hundred years ago & at that point people made the choice to work or not work for the wage on offer, or fight their cause to improve their standard of living. Certainly in the last 50 years in the UK I cannot recall any full time employee being paid such a low wage that ‘Tips’ became their main source of income as they appear to do in certain jobs in the US. Without trying to sound offensive please help me understand why you are prepared accept that some people are paid an ‘insult’ of a wage, & everyone else has to fill their wage packet on behalf of the employer. Whenever I travel to the US I do fall in line with your ‘custom’ & hand out tips like a walking vending machine to every smuck who picks up my bag , puts it on a conveyer, takes it off, puts it on a bus & then reminds me how much an hour he/she earns. Surely the level of pay these people earn is an indictment on your Society & maybe ‘tipping’ them is your way of easing your conscience. The fact is, I’m more than capable of lifting my own bag onto their conveyer, bus etc.

 

Posters often ask ‘Who & How much should we tip in Europe.

 

Taxi Drivers, Hairdressers (inc Beauty/Facial/Spa Etc)......... 10%

This is not because they are lowly paid, but more a custom harking back to the days when only the Gentry could afford Taxi’s & Hairdressers & tipped their underlings accordingly.

 

Wait Staff in a restaurant........... 10%

Yes, if we go back in time Wait Staff tended to be part time/casual employment where tips were the bulk of their wage packet. This I suspect is no longer the case as the need for more professionalism is required.

Some Restaurants are now adding 10% Service Charge to their final bill & where this is the case, people do not normally tip beyond this charge. It’s also worth noting that the Service Charge has no legal standing in law & can be removed by the customer at will, although this would be a rare occurrence

 

Hotel Bellboy......... £1or £2

 

Porters at an Airport/Pier/Railway Station......... £1or £2

This is probably the one time people are working for ‘Tips Alone’ as many will be doing it to enhance their Full/Part Time wage packet from another job.

Beyond these the ‘Tourist/Traveller’ would be unlikely to encounter anyone else requiring a tip & would never be ‘reminded’ by anyone to ‘give me a tip’

We now have a ‘Minimum Wage’ in the UK (about $11 an hour) but this is a very recent law that has not made any difference to the way we tip, or whom we tip.

 

 

As for NCL’s new policy of adding a Service Charge into the small print of their new contract, this I fear will fall foul of UK law, as hidden charges must be ‘up front’ on advertising in the UK. It will be interesting to see how this pans out and I’m sure it’s only time before all the cruise lines follow suit.

 

 

 

While I appreciate your explanation, it does come across as pretty smug, IMHO. Just because you tip that way in the UK, doesn't make one custom more right than the other.

[cliffd64]

 

As for NCL’s new policy of adding a Service Charge into the small print of their new contract, this I fear will fall foul of UK law, as hidden charges must be ‘up front’ on advertising in the UK. It will be interesting to see how this pans out and I’m sure it’s only time before all the cruise lines follow suit.

 

 

This "new" policy has been in effect for 5 years or so... and it is NOT hidden and is clearly displayed in every cruise contract and all over the NCL website.

[petesweet]

For a culture that doesn't tip, you've got quite a few tips listed there, my friend.

[JohnIreland]

In Ireland the only times you would tip are Taxi drivers and restaurants...as above 10% to 15% would be about right..

 

Or course a tip would always be nice for anyone who goes about and beyond for you...

 

I would notice it far more normal to tip in germany/france and around the med than in UK & Ireland....

[Wilba]

SALLY it was not mean't to be a smug statement, more a question of why?

 

CLIFFD your 5 years out of date as NCL are removing the Autotip & replacing it with a Service Charge

 

PETE Sorry I just don't understand your comment

[MrLee]

Let's not forget that this isn't unique to NCL. I found the same auto-tip on Carnival and HAL.

Celebrity used envelpoes and I found it to be a pain.

[cruise4kicks]

Wilba, we've already covered this topic ad nauseum as it relates to cruising. Why would you want to come to a cruising board to discuss what you perceive to be a society's ills? Please take it to a political board instead. This isn't the place.

[MrPete]

I remember my first trip to the UK in 1983, where I left a tip on the table after I paid my bill. I had never even heard of the “word” VAT before.

Well, the lady who served me came running after me outside after I had left. I thought I had done something wrong, but she just wanted to let me know I had accidentally left some money on the table.

I found it amusing, and realized then that I hadn’t studied up at all at any local customs. After that, I made sure I was a traveler, and not just a tourist.

[eyzwdeshut]

I remember my first trip to the UK in 1983, where I left a tip on the table after I paid my bill. I had never even heard of the “word” VAT before.

 

Well, the lady who served me came running after me outside after I had left. I thought I had done something wrong, but she just wanted to let me know I had accidentally left some money on the table.

 

I found it amusing, and realized then that I hadn’t studied up at all at any local customs. After that, I made sure I was a traveler, and not just a tourist.

 

When we were traveling in Spain, we were instructed not to tip either by the guide who managed tours there.

[Don Haynes]

I believe its best to do as the old proverb when in Rome do as the Romans do.

 

In Europe many countriies have value added taxes. In the advertisments stores include the VAT into the sales price Most of the VATs are over 15 percent and are the same throughout the country.

 

In America every state has a different sales tax, many breaking this tax into cities. Say its 8.5 percent in Dallas, 8.25 percent in Granbury, and 8.0 percent in Glen Rose. In America products are advertised with the shlelf price, not including sales tax. Its almost impossible to add the sales tax into the advertisments because of different state and city sales tax rates, even in the same county.