Antarctic Treaty Association say Star should not be sailing there

[zaandam_2]

Members of the Antarctic Treaty Association are sugggesting that it is not safe for the star to be sailing in antarctic waters.

 

click here for a link to the article.

 

the ship that sank recently, the explorer, was a double-hulled ice rated ship and look what happened there. i would tend to agree with the treaty association.

[Tinwoman]

Members of the Antarctic Treaty Association are sugggesting that it is not safe for the star to be sailing in antarctic waters.

 

click here for a link to the article.

 

the ship that sank recently, the explorer, was a double-hulled ice rated ship and look what happened there. i would tend to agree with the treaty association.

 

I agree, or any other ship for that matter.

[Druke I]

I agree, not a place for megaships, nor any ship without an "ice strengthened" hull.

[sultan_sfo]

in Jan 2007, the Golden Princess (Rio / BA) picked up (rescued) the crew members of Noordam (a small ship designed for Antarctica cruising) which got stuck! The pax were rescued by another cruise ship. The Captain of the Golden Princess, Captain Calabrese, was superb in his knowledge of the Islands (St. George etc) in the Antarctica. He also described the voluminous paper work Princess had to submit to be allowed to cruise there. Once in Antarctica, the entire ship had special restrictions -- no paper napkins, cups, etc on deck, and many other environmental safeguard. We were very impressed. And the large ships are NOT allowed below the 32nd (?) parallel. That cruise for us was really a once in a lifetime experience. /Sultan

 

P.S. The Golden Princess also brought supplies for the research stations.

 

Members of the Antarctic Treaty Association are sugggesting that it is not safe for the star to be sailing in antarctic waters.

 

click here for a link to the article.

 

the ship that sank recently, the explorer, was a double-hulled ice rated ship and look what happened there. i would tend to agree with the treaty association.

[Roses2]

Without coming down on any side of the issue, a careful reading of the article provided does not support the statement made by the OP.

 

In fact the statement about restrictions of the types of ships that should be allowed to sail into the antarctic region is by the Exectutive Dirctor of the Antactic and Southern Ocean Coilation and primarily is concerned with assuring the enviornmental condition of the Antarctic Reserve.

 

The article does not address any statement by the Antarctic Treaty Association arguing for the ban on large vessels transiting the area.

 

The Antarctic Treaty Association has as its primary goal the protection of the area against military incursions.

[zaandam_2]

apparently you did not read it carefully enough:

 

"If a ship like that can go down, it really should be a wake-up call about allowing vessels that are not ice-strengthened and do not have double hulls to go down there at all," Barnes said.

 

"A paper presented at the Antarctic Treaty's last meeting called the Golden Princess, run by California-based Princess Cruises, the largest tourist vessel ever to operate in Antarctic water. The paper recommended treaty members bar large cruise ships, but they have not done so."

[Druke I]

I believe it was Nordkapp that was involved with Golden Princess, not Noordam.

 

Nordkapp, a sister to Nordnorge (involved with Explorer's sinking), is a Hurtigruten ship, and has an ice strengthened hull.

 

Noordam is an HAL ship of the Vista class, and does not have an ice-strengthened hull.

[CruisinChris]

"If a ship like that can go down, it really should be a wake-up call about allowing vessels that are not ice-strengthened and do not have double hulls to go down there at all," Barnes said.

 

Barnes is not with the Anarctic Treaty Association. Further, as demonstrated by the recent sinking, even ice-hardened hull ships are vulnerable.

 

"A paper presented at the Antarctic Treaty's last meeting called the Golden Princess, run by California-based Princess Cruises, the largest tourist vessel ever to operate in Antarctic water. The paper recommended treaty members bar large cruise ships, but they have not done so."

 

The paper was presented to the Association. It may or may not reflect their point of view.

[sultan_sfo]

Thanks -- you are correct. /Sultan

 

I believe it was Nordkapp that was involved with Golden Princess, not Noordam.

...

[caribill]

apparently you did not read it carefully enough

 

I read it carefully enough to see that it has fake facts:

 

It says "The Golden Princess, a 689-foot cruise ship that can carry 2,425 passengers, sailed Antarctic waters this season, but passengers did not set foot on the Antarctic and there were no incidents."

 

Good description of a 951-foot ship with a passenger capacity (at two to a cabin) of 2600.

[zaandam_2]

I read it carefully enough to see that it has fake facts:

 

It says "The Golden Princess, a 689-foot cruise ship that can carry 2,425 passengers, sailed Antarctic waters this season, but passengers did not set foot on the Antarctic and there were no incidents."

 

Good description of a 951-foot ship with a passenger capacity (at two to a cabin) of 2600.

 

it is almost like they are getting their facts off of a message board :D

[Colo Cruiser]

I agree the Golden Princess or any other ship not suited for the conditions has no business being there. Period.

 

Can you imagine the disaster with 3000-4000 people in an incident like that. :eek:

[zaandam_2]

the prices are very cheap for the 1/10/2007 sailing of the star. 16 night cruise is 925/pp for an inside.

[c-to-sea]

The Antractic Treaty Secretariat meeting at which this paper was presented

can be found here:

 

http://30atcm.ats.aq/30atcm/Documents/docFinalReport.aspx

 

It notes the status of ASOC, the organization that presented the paper.

 

"Antarctic and Southern Ocean Coalition (ASOC) and the International Association of Antarctica Tour Operators (IAATO) participate in the meetings as observers and experts."

 

The topic and discussion can be found here - minute items 92-104

 

http://30atcm.ats.aq/30atcm/Documents/Docs/att/Atcm30_att084_rev1_e.doc

 

There seems to be as much concern about the environmental impact of

passenger landings from small ships as there is from the navigational

and capacity aspects of large ships.

[Roses2]

Papers are read at every professional organization's meetings. Those papers represent the views of the presenters, not the views of the organization at which they are read.

 

If the organization desires to support the view presented in a paper, the organization votes to adopt the view, in this case there is no evidence that the Antarctic Treaty Organization took such action.

 

As an aside, it would be rare if they did since the organization's charter totally diverges from the subject of safety of cruise ships in the Antarctic.

 

Whether you believe cruise ships should or should not intrude into the Antarctic area, come on let's stick to facts and not personal extrapolations from facts.

[GBeret]

Roses2:

 

I tend to agree with you!

 

I think the organization(s) in question, are more interested in the environmental impact of any passenger ships in that area than dangerous ice conditions to them. (Environmentalists!) :rolleyes:

 

http://www.earth4man.com/

 

I'll be sailing on the Star in 2009 and will be in that area. I'm not worried about an incident; however, any sea voyage has it's dangers. That's why they have muster drills! Right? :rolleyes: ;)

[Tinwoman]

I came across this article earlier today.

Sunken Antarctic cruise ship left oil spill

 

Mile-long slick is near breeding grounds for 2,500 penguins

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22039975/wid/18298287/

 

"About 50,000 gallons of diesel, 6,300 gallons of lubricant and 260 gallons of gasoline were on board when the Explorer then sank hours later."

[Pam in CA]

Noordam is an HAL ship of the Vista class, and does not have an ice-strengthened hull.

The HAL Prinsendam does have an ice-strengthened hull, I believe. That's what we were told when we went (slowly) into the polar ice cap last summer.

[rdsqrl]

Pam, I just noticed your new "clock"-- the Passport Renewal countdown. Love it! For what it's worth, two family members/friends in the DC area got theirs back in three weeks, so good luck.

 

I'm totally jealous of your cruise into the polar ice cap -- I've wanted to do that ever since I read Ice Station Zebra as an impressionable teenager. Great book if you haven't read it, but definitely don't see the really terrible movie (w/Rock Hudson, I think?).

[Pam in CA]

Pam, I just noticed your new "clock"-- the Passport Renewal countdown. Love it! For what it's worth, two family members/friends in the DC area got theirs back in three weeks, so good luck.

 

I'm totally jealous of your cruise into the polar ice cap -- I've wanted to do that ever since I read Ice Station Zebra as an impressionable teenager. Great book if you haven't read it, but definitely don't see the really terrible movie (w/Rock Hudson, I think?).

Thanks! I figured that since my passport was due for renewal by December '08 and I didn't have a whole lot of time before any of my other cruises, that I'd do a countdown for the renewal right along with the countdown for my Sapphire cruise. :)

 

And yes, cruising into the polar ice cap was an incredible experience. Few ships will experience this and even fewer from now on since none of the major cruise companies are going to Spitzbergen any more; which means they won't go north of Spitzbergen to the ice cap.

 

Notice the two officers hanging off the bow of the ship in the 2nd photo? They were the ones doing the ice depth checking. I've got other photos of them hanging right off the side and being held by the feet by others.

[zaandam_2]

pam, in case i didn't mention it before, i loved loved loved those photos.

 

hopefully spitzbergen will re-think those huge tarrifs they have placed on cruise ships.

[rdsqrl]

I agree, they really are awesome photos . . . what an incredible trip.

[Pam in CA]

pam, in case i didn't mention it before, i loved loved loved those photos.

Thanks! Here are two more photos that show how close we were to the ice, and the captain as he was backing us out of the ice. It truly was an incredible cruise; and, I should say that the captain was by far, the best I've ever experienced on any cruise ship. We had a medical emergency on our first try going to the polar ice and we were only about an hour away when we had to turn back and go to Spitzbergen. People were furious and speculation was rampant as to the reason why. He got on the ship's speakers and explained exactly what was happening, what the emergency was, and that our itinerary was changing slightly so that we'd spend the next day in Spitzbergen and then sail north to the polar ice cap. The next day, he let us know the condition of the passenger and read a letter from her husband. (It was an emergency appendectomy that the ship's medical staff wasn't able to handle.) People were weird, saying that passengers should have a medical check-up before cruising and stuff like that. Like you'd know in advance you're going to get appendicitis?