Virtually No Dress Code on Our Summit Cruise

[Drew B]

I don't think it's shady. It seems obvious to me that X is trying to move to the new way of doing things while not alienating the past customers who clearly like a more traditional attire. They want to have their cake and eat it to!

 

For those posters who feel they have such a high I.Q they should be able to understand the very clear difference in the word required vs. suggested vs. may. There is no room for interpretation it is what it is by definition.

 

The difference in those words may be clear. Why then do they use one word, "required", in one place (the dailies) and the other words, "suggested" and "may" in another (website, brochure and promotional materials)? It would be easier to have the exact same language everywhere, so that suggests that somebody actually chose to word things differently (and thereby give two different meanings). You don't think that's shady? And even based on what you said yourself, isn't the very definition of having one's cake and eating it too somewhat shady?

[woodofpine]

Wait! You have to take me to shore. According to the Code of the Order of the Brethren...

 

Barbossa: First, your return to shore was not part of our negotiations nor our agreement so I must do nothing. And secondly, you must be a pirate for the pirate's code to apply and you're not. And thirdly, the code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules. Welcome aboard the Black Pearl, Miss Turner .

 

 

What is formal ware in an informal world?

 

Sure I prefer an 'A' rated formal night - but in a 'public school' or 'mass market' ship >90% is an 'A' so even with nearly 200 non-adherants what have you got?

 

Don't expect a cruise line building Solstice sized ships to turn people away!

[Mark_from_Plano]

I have to somewhat agree with your last post.

 

However my understanding of the words SUGGEST and MAY in the context that they are used is that they are meant as a polite way of saying " we would like you to..."...( I agree its a bit wishy washy).

 

I would like to disagree with this, but only slightly. :) It's not "wishy washy" and its not "shady" (as a prior poster suggested). This language, like the formal night itself, is a vestage of polite society that is being applied to our modern impolite society. In the past no one would have thought of rejecting their hosts' suggestions because they would have recognized that they weren't really "suggestions" at all, but were the host's way of being polite and not ordering the guests around. The "55mph speed limit" analogy is only applicable if we consider Celebrity more like the government than like a host. I think they're the latter.

 

As for packing how about this for a packing tip: If you're worried about where to pack that extra sports coat and trouser combo...wear it for boarding. This has the following benefits:

1. The shorts and t-shirt you displace will fit in a much small space in your luggage reducing the amount you have to pack.

2. You'll look much nicer in your boarding photos and at the sailaway party.

3. If the cruise line is slow delivering your luggage you'll still look nice for dinner.

[usha]

It's not "wishy washy" and its not "shady" (as a prior poster suggested). This language, like the formal night itself, is a vestage of polite society that is being applied to our modern impolite society. In the past no one would have thought of rejecting their hosts' suggestions because they would have recognized that they weren't really "suggestions" at all, but were the host's way of being polite and not ordering the guests around.

Imagine that: "Polite society"...what a concept!:cool:

[caviargal]

 

Don't expect a cruise line building Solstice sized ships to turn people away!

 

Exactly my thoughts!

[Drew B]

I would like to disagree with this, but only slightly. :) It's not "wishy washy" and its not "shady" (as a prior poster suggested). This language, like the formal night itself, is a vestage of polite society that is being applied to our modern impolite society.

 

I was calling the DISCREPENCY between this polite language and the more forceful language "shady". If they maintained the polite vernacular in all their written directives, I never would have made such an accusation.

[dale jr.]

"It would change what I would do personally and it would then be enforceable by the cruise line for those who choose to offend"

 

So a rule or policy is not enforcable unless there are consequences?

 

Something is only enforceable if it is indeed a written requirement. As you have already reported yourself the language is ambiguous and has been done so purposefully in that manner by Celebrity to give them an "out". If it was stated as being required I personally would have no option to either conform or choose not to cruise with Celebrity. It is my and other peoples second option that Celebrity is worried about and that in my opinion is why they have so carefully chosen their words. If they had a definite written statement of policy they would have no recourse but to enforce it when confronted with an offender.

 

Apparently by your remark you paint yourself as the kind of person that "does what they want...because..." unless someone holds your hand like a child and guides you through the correct behavior to exhibit with the threat of being spanked if you don't.

 

Quite the vivid imagination you have.

 

All because of a word. Lets see if the speed limit says 55, then you drive 55 as the word limit means MAXIMUM. So in reality you can drive anywhere between 0 and 55 and be a law abiding citizen, but once you hit 56 you become a criminal...because it is posted as a limit. Now if it was posted as a median speed...it would be a bit different.

 

Your train of thought, not mine

 

Sure would be different worded that way. Us people with the low IQ's would simply have to learn to multiply by two to figure out the maximum speed was 110. Not really much of an analogy though. I hope it didn't take too long to come up with it.

 

Sticking with your "analogy" you would be better off using the white speed limit signs as an absolute required speed limit and the yellow triangles found typically at curves as a suggested safe speed. I have never gotten a ticket for taking a corner too fast and nor could they ever give me one for speeding.

 

Immature IMHO.

 

That's like the pot calling the kettle black.........

[dforeigner]

I suspect the term 'informal' may occasionally create some misunderstanding.

 

 

Richard.

 

I concur here.

[Karynanne]

Celebrity should change the wording for "Informal" to "Semi-Formal". People seem to have a better understanding of that phase.

[Sky Sweet]

Celebrity should change the wording for "Informal" to "Semi-Formal". People seem to have a better understanding of that phase.

 

Hi Karynanne :)

 

I agree with you. In fact, whenever we take a cruise with friends who are new to Celebrity, I use the term "semi-formal" instead of informal so they will know what to pack for the cruise.

[CathyCruises]

We recently returned from a Med cruise on Century. I wrongly assumed that the more formal setting as well as the time of year--mid fall--would mean that the dress code would be pretty well adhered to. Sorry to say that I was wrong. There were probably 70-75% of the people in what I considered to be "within normal limits" for formal, but I was amazed at the rest--not even a modicum of trying to adhere to the dress code. On the other hand, there were a couple of women who looked like they were going to meet the Queen--boas draping the floor, etc. I was SURE some people would be asked to return to their staterooms, but not a one. I kind of liken it to a bell curve--you have the majority properly outfitted in the middle, and then the percentage of overdressed on one end and the underdressed on the other!

 

I think there is something to be said for benign ignorance, though. We had a lovely couple at our table who came to the dining room the first dinner in jeans--I was kind of surprised, but it was only their second cruise and they may not have known better. Every other evening they looked great. . .

 

When we were in Tahiti earlier this year on Princess, where you might expect less formality, I don't recall seeing nearly the number of flagrant "violations" that I encountered on X. I live in a very remote area and don't have any shopping opportunities at all, but I made several day-long trips beforehand to be sure I had the right clothes--it's just not that hard if you make any effort.

 

But my prediction is that it's going to continue to get worse, especially if there are never any ramifications.

 

Sigh. Cathy

[jaybird from SC]

I know this issue has been debated to death, but I just wanted to impart my experience with the dress code on our two week Summit cruise. In my estimation, and that of my travelmates, the dress code was quite a bit ignored, and no enforcement. I saw women and men in shorts and sandals on both casual and informal nights. I saw men in Hawaiian shirts and women in capri pants and tshirts on formal nights. I would say that at least 40% of the men didn't wear jackets on informal nights. For some reason, the second formal night was slightly better than either the first or third, but still, at the tables near us, a good number of passengers ignored the dress code completely. And I found this part interesting. While friends were waiting outside the dining room on formal night, a couple stood next to them and were amazed that people were dressed up. My friend, Larry, said to them "don't you know it's formal night"? The woman said, "we didn't know that". Larry replied,"didn't you read your daily paper?" Reply, "yes, but we didn't see anything about the dress code". I wonder if people don't read---or whatever. But, no one was denied entrance, even in shorts and t-shirts.

 

I wondered if the makeup of the passengers had anything to do with this. The average age on the cruise was well above 65, and I would say that at least half, if not more, of the passengers were non-American. I think the answer to this whole dress code thing was partially answered when we were disembarking. While we had our porter carrying our two-big-bags-apiece to the taxi area, many of our fellow passengers seemed to have gotten by for the two weeks with two carry-on sized luggages. I know for a fact that unless you wear Barbie doll sized clothes, you really cannot pack for two weeks in two carry ons. Heck, just shoes alone can take up a huge amount of space, right ladies????LOL

 

And, finally, on this cruise I saw the largest number of passengers who didn't stay in the code of the evening, and went to all other venues on the ship, even on formal nights, wearing shorts and flip flops.

 

Did this ruin our cruise??? No. But regardless of how you feel about it, it does change the ambience in the dining room especially on formal nights. Unfortunately, those of us who love the "old" Celebrity will have to swallow our pride and fully admit that the casualites are winning the fight for every cruise line.

We were on Summit to Hawaii in October and we did not see that type of disregard for the formal dress code. Every now and then maybe one or two people, but for the most part everyone was "in appropriate" attire on formal nights.

[raymac46]

On our November Med cruise on Millennium I'd say the overwhelming majority of the passengers complied with the dress code. I saw a lot of tuxes on formal nights - I'd say 65-70% of the men wore them. It was a very classy crowd

I rented a tux and wore a jacket to travel and board the ship so I was all set. No problem with overweight luggage. Glad I had that tux though.

[puli]

I must admit that having cruised many, many times over the last 38 years, I always thought I followed the "dress code" of the various lines. My last 10 cruises have been on either HAL or Celebrity and I always observed the dress code especially on Formal Nights. Or so I thought, until I actually read on this board, Celibrity's "Formal Night Dress Code" which says "Evening Dress or Fancy Cocktail Dress". LOL, all these years I have actually been disregarding the "dress code" by wearing my lovely, dressy, somewhat expensive pant- set outfits! They are much easier to pack and with good shopping can be mixed and matched! Too bad they are "outlawed"!

It makes me wonder if all the women who made the above comments about the absolute need to wear the "required" outfits were also in violation of the dress code. I really think that we make too much of the idea that we must "obey" the letter of the law. For me, I wear what makes me feel and look as good as possible and let others do the same. As long as my fellow guests are clean, modestly dressed, and are non insulting in manner and speech then my mealtimes are a success.

Life is too short to worry about obeying the "exact" rules so I will continue to flaunt the dress code in my own way!

[drrich2]

You know, the Constellation has a 2 story dining room. Some other ships have more than 1, too.

 

It'd be a great experiment to make one level formal on some lines, & the other casual every night of the cruise.

 

Let the passengers choose when they make reservations, just like they choose early or late seating.

 

I'd be fascinated to see what useage patterns by the passengers would emerge. After all, most business pander to customer wants, needs & choices.

 

Be a great project.

 

Richard.

[forensic]

We just returned from an 11 night cruise on the Constellation. A number of us commented how wonderful it was that so many men wore tux's. The great majority of men had tuxedo's on for all three formal night's. The ladies, as usual, dressed in a combination of long and short dresses. The problem (as I see it) with the ladies that go with the theory of black pants and fancy tops is that some of the black pants do not look "formal" or "dressy" at all. So some of them great but some did not quite meet the critieria of "formal".

 

There was a table of 4 next to us, 2 couple, elderly couples, Russian, they said. They did not dress properly for either of the first 2 formal nights. The assistant Maitre'd spoke to them and told them if they did not intend to dress properly for the final formal night, not to come. He said it very nicely. They had a fit, said they had cruised 30 times and never worn a jacket! Well, they did not come on formal night, or any of the following nights. Too bad is my opinion. I was so happy to see Celebrity do the right thing!!

 

By the way EVERYTHING about our cruise was PERFECT - it was the best cruise we have every taken!:)

[Muushka]

You know, the Constellation has a 2 story dining room. Some other ships have more than 1, too.

 

It'd be a great experiment to make one level formal on some lines, & the other casual every night of the cruise.

 

Let the passengers choose when they make reservations, just like they choose early or late seating.

 

I'd be fascinated to see what useage patterns by the passengers would emerge. After all, most business pander to customer wants, needs & choices.

 

Be a great project.

 

Richard.

 

Now that, is a great idea.:)

[CatServants]

I know this issue has been debated to death, but I just wanted to impart my experience with the dress code on our two week Summit cruise. In my estimation, and that of my travelmates, the dress code was quite a bit ignored, and no enforcement. I saw women and men in shorts and sandals on both casual and informal nights. I saw men in Hawaiian shirts and women in capri pants and tshirts on formal nights. I would say that at least 40% of the men didn't wear jackets on informal nights. For some reason, the second formal night was slightly better than either the first or third, but still, at the tables near us, a good number of passengers ignored the dress code completely. And I found this part interesting. While friends were waiting outside the dining room on formal night, a couple stood next to them and were amazed that people were dressed up. My friend, Larry, said to them "don't you know it's formal night"? The woman said, "we didn't know that". Larry replied,"didn't you read your daily paper?" Reply, "yes, but we didn't see anything about the dress code". I wonder if people don't read---or whatever. But, no one was denied entrance, even in shorts and t-shirts.

 

I wondered if the makeup of the passengers had anything to do with this. The average age on the cruise was well above 65, and I would say that at least half, if not more, of the passengers were non-American. I think the answer to this whole dress code thing was partially answered when we were disembarking. While we had our porter carrying our two-big-bags-apiece to the taxi area, many of our fellow passengers seemed to have gotten by for the two weeks with two carry-on sized luggages. I know for a fact that unless you wear Barbie doll sized clothes, you really cannot pack for two weeks in two carry ons. Heck, just shoes alone can take up a huge amount of space, right ladies????LOL

 

And, finally, on this cruise I saw the largest number of passengers who didn't stay in the code of the evening, and went to all other venues on the ship, even on formal nights, wearing shorts and flip flops.

 

Did this ruin our cruise??? No. But regardless of how you feel about it, it does change the ambience in the dining room especially on formal nights. Unfortunately, those of us who love the "old" Celebrity will have to swallow our pride and fully admit that the casualites are winning the fight for every cruise line.

 

Kitty9 - Do you think that warm weather cruises have less compliance with formal dress codes than cool weather cruises? I've often thought this to be the case, but I'm probably wrong. I've also frequently thought that cruises during the school year with fewer children tend to be dressier, but many posters, (including you) have suggested that, in fact, the more 'mature' people on the cruises are the ones dressing down. I also found your point about non-Americans interesting. On the SilverSea Boards (I'm a lurker;)), when dress codes are the subject of a thread (it's pretty much the same as here), the consensus is that Europeans tend to dress MORE formally than their US cousins. Apparently, you didn't find this to be the case.

 

I guess I'm going to have to take a LOT more cruises...for research purposes only (;)). I'm sure you understand.:D Anyway, thanks for sharing your experiences.

 

Happy cruising!

 

Denise

[Coco Creek]

Hi Karynanne :)

 

I agree with you. In fact, whenever we take a cruise with friends who are new to Celebrity, I use the term "semi-formal" instead of informal so they will know what to pack for the cruise.

 

I would love to see Celebrity get rid of informal (semi-formal) altogether. Why three dress codes are needed is beyond me. Formal and casual accomplish the elegant plus relaxed dining.

[kitty9]

Denise, your observations are not incorrect, entirely. I have friends from my Crystal cruises who are European/Australian and they all lament that the casual outlook of America is becoming more pervasive in their countries. While you will still find many Europeans who still dress very well, an ever expanding number seem to be adopting some of the worst of "Western" culture, which includes over-casual dressing.

 

As for the warm weather theory, I haven't found that to be true---at least in all my earlier cruises. And by earlier I mean cruises two years ago and earlier. Even shorter cruises of 7 days had more than 95% of passengers following the dress codes, even on lines like RCCI. But for some reason, this whole sloppy, casual atmosphere has become much more prevalent in the past couple of years, regardless of cruise itinerary. One would think that Alaska cruises would be very casual, but on our Infinity Alaska cruise this past June, most passengers did quite well with observing the codes. Our cruises on X of a couple years ago, all warm weather cruises, had most everyone following the dress codes, with very few exceptions.

 

I cruise Crystal and Seabourn, which like Silversea, tends to attract a higher number of non-US passengers. And on those lines, you'll find at least 95% of the men wearing tuxes on formal nights and dress codes are rarely rejected. But I think that's a function of being on a luxury line rather than the make up of the clientele.

 

As for the designation of the word Informal, I've said many times in previous posts that "informal" is vastly misunderstood. I've been involved in many conversations with cruise passengers who've asked me why I was so dressed up on an informal night. I explain to them that informal isn't meant as casual, but is one step down from formal. Despite the fact that X places the definition of informal in all their publications, for some reason, many cruise passengers either do not read this, or they have serious reading comprehension problems. While I might understand the misunderstanding of the terms, IF a passenger reads the daily or their cruise documents, they would see that informal is most certainly not the time to wear your Crocs and capri pants.

[Mark_from_Plano]

I would love to see Celebrity get rid of informal (semi-formal) altogether. Why three dress codes are needed is beyond me. Formal and casual accomplish the elegant plus relaxed dining.

 

I agree. Three dress codes is too many. Let's get rid of casual. Formal and informal (semi-formal) should work for pretty much everyone. In fact formal every night would work just great too. Now we've got it down to one. That way we can all just relax. ;)

[Mark_from_Plano]

As for the designation of the word Informal, I've said many times in previous posts that "informal" is vastly misunderstood. I've been involved in many conversations with cruise passengers who've asked me why I was so dressed up on an informal night. I explain to them that informal isn't meant as casual, but is one step down from formal. Despite the fact that X places the definition of informal in all their publications, for some reason, many cruise passengers either do not read this, or they have serious reading comprehension problems. While I might understand the misunderstanding of the terms, IF a passenger reads the daily or their cruise documents, they would see that informal is most certainly not the time to wear your Crocs and capri pants.

 

Not just "informal". The actual definitions (at least for men) are as follows:

Formal=White tie; tailcoat, white vest, white tie, bib front shirt with wing collar.

Semi-Formal=Black tie; tuxedo, vest or cummerbund, black tie, various formal shirt options.

Informal=Lounge suit and tie.

 

Those are the definitions, though that's not how people think of them any more. The cruise lines attempt to adhere to the old standards, but it's against a rising tide of ignorance of those standards. It really makes it hard when people (a) aren't willing to put forth the effort to learn what's appropriate, (b) don't care what's appropriate, and © seek a "lowest common denominator" experience.

 

JMHO.

 

I'm going to put on my flameproof suit now.

[Coco Creek]

I agree. Three dress codes is too many. Let's get rid of casual. Formal and informal (semi-formal) should work for pretty much everyone. In fact formal every night would work just great too. Now we've got it down to one. That way we can all just relax. ;)

 

Yes, we can relax as we schedule our land based vacations and watch cruise line after cruise line go bankrupt. At least you would not be crowded at your "formal" meals.

[lvcruiser]

I do not like being told how to dress while on vacation. That being said, however, I am a conformist and believe in tradition. Accordingly, I book a cruise on a particular line with full knowledge of their dress code and then stick to it during my stay on the ship. If I want to go more casual, I'll book with RCI; if I'm interested in dressing up, I'll go with X. The one aspect of X's dress code that I really don't care for is the idea that the dress code of the day pertains to the entire evening until you retire to your room. I don't minding dressing up for dinner, but if I've had a long day of walking on a shore excursion, I might want to get out of my dress shoes as quickly as possible after the meal.

 

Two things I don't understand about this whole dress code issue with one pointed to each camp:

 

1) If you don't want to dress up on formal night, why not simply attend the casual alternative dining or order room service to avoid the inevitable dirty looks from those thinking you're a slob? It's not like the old days when there was only one dining venue on board each ship. To come to the main dining room dressed in jeans or shorts on formal nights is nothing more than thumbing your nose at your fellow passengers, the cruise line, its crew and society in general. On a previous cruise, I saw a gentleman standing outside the dining room after dinner waiting for the elevator who was dressed from the waist up in a tux, complete with ruffled shirt, black tie and cummerbund, and from the waist down, a pair of blue jeans. He was trying to make a statement, but three years later, I still haven't figured out what it was.

 

2) How can anyone get so upset over how someone else is dressed, especially if they are not in your party? Some of the posters on this and related threads act as though having to view someone else not conforming to the dress code will ruin their cruise. It sounds to me as though those people may fall into the busybody category, choosing to mind other's business rather their own, or maybe they are simply in a constant negative mindset, trying to find fault with anything they can. I dress to the code every night when cruising, but I don't let anyone else's dress bother me or ruin my evening. I don't talk about them and I don't complain to the cruise line. But I have been known to point and laugh.

 

A simple solution to this age old problem is to have the cruise line institute the policy of dismembering anyone caught not conforming to the daily dress code and using them for bait for those who wish to fish off the bow of the ship. I hate not being able to fish off the stern anymore. The last time I did, I hooked one of the skeet shooters and he got real upset.

[Shipyard Cruiser]

After all, most business pander to customer wants, needs & choices.

 

I think that's how a business makes money:)