Fuel Surcharge

[jaxon41]

Dear OP,

 

There is a very long thread here -- if you plug in fuel surcharge to the search engine, you will find it. In that thread I believe you will find a kind poster who posted the contract (in red, if memory serves) pre Nov 7th -- it does not allow for a fuel surcharge, except for air/sea arrangements, again as I recall.

 

Basically, you have a breach of contract case, and while one poster told you to get a lawyer, there is one who already works for you. It is your state attorney general. This is something concrete you can do -- contact your state attorney general, and contact the Florida Attorney General, and file a complaint. Join the estimated thousands (according to complaints made with the maritime commission, and Carnival saying 20,000 have complained) of us who have taken action, strengthen the case with your added voice. To date, besides the Fl AG, 7 other state AG's have been contacted that I know of, and the FL AG has opened an investigation under the economic crimes division/multi-state litigation department. Filing with the FL AG is simple;it can be done on line. Just google. Your state AG, like mine, may require snail mail and documentation, like a contract of carriage before Nov 7th (see that thread I spoke of), and any advertisment (brochures) that mentioned the security of the price.

 

I am not as familiar with the Carnival situation as I am with RCI; I am going on what I read on that other thread about your contract. Because of RCI"s brochure/web site guaranteeing no price increase after deposit, they now have a problem with deceptive practices as well as breach of contract.

 

Write the Carnival CEO, if it makes you feel better, but know that legal action, as with the port overcharges in 1997, is the only thing they are likely to heed.

[Soccerfan]

Please don't think we are not doing anything.

 

I feel like I am flogging a dead horse on this matter.

 

We are Canadians booked with a US TA prior to Nov 7. We have to pay because we took our business to the US.

 

Calls to Carnival reps get you a different answer every time.

 

2 weeks ago I had a conference call with my TA and a supervisor at Carnival. Supervisor said they are waiting for the legal contract to be completed then it's "official" policy will be posted online. Due any day now he said. Still nothing.

Explained the frustration of speaking with Carnival staff and getting different answers, if they don't know the answer how are we supposed to know it. Said he'd look into it.

 

Now, 2 weeks later, no online official notice with regard to the Canadians booking with a US TA.

 

Made 2 calls to Carnival this morning, was given 2 different answers.

 

Great advice to contact the Attorney General but does anyone know who I can contact here in Canada?

 

Thanks

[arizdback]

What happened to the customer is always right, customer relations or trying to keep customers loyal?

 

 

Not to be mean, but have you left your house in the last 8 years? What you are talking about is now considered "the olden days." Today the customer is a means to make money. It is that simple. Nothing more, nothing less. We are a nation of quiet people. Someday I think that the pendulum will swing back the other way but not likely in my lifetime. If you complain you are simply a source of ridicule for the money men. Believe me, any complaint will be filed in the round file. The people on this board are exactly right when it comes to this topic. Carnival does not care about you in any way shape or form. You are replaceable and every full ship shows them that they can care less and less. Every time a full ship leaves the dock we are all standing tall together and saying "We're not fed up and we really don't give a darn! You have what we crave and we are willing to let you administer the dosage" Some people will say that 70 bucks isn't worth fighting over but that is simply the first step in not fighting for the next thing. And I'm not just talking about cruises here. I'm talking about rude behavior, manners, customer service and honesty. Read the paper. The examples are endless. I'll step down off my soap box now. :)

To get back to your original question.... yes I did get rid of the fuel charge on my upcoming cruise but that was from my longtime TA. I simply said I would be canceling my 2 cat 11's and she cut the price by 280.

[DarthGrady]

Please don't think we are not doing anything.

 

I feel like I am flogging a dead horse on this matter.

 

We are Canadians booked with a US TA prior to Nov 7. We have to pay because we took our business to the US.

 

Calls to Carnival reps get you a different answer every time.

 

2 weeks ago I had a conference call with my TA and a supervisor at Carnival. Supervisor said they are waiting for the legal contract to be completed then it's "official" policy will be posted online. Due any day now he said. Still nothing.

Explained the frustration of speaking with Carnival staff and getting different answers, if they don't know the answer how are we supposed to know it. Said he'd look into it.

 

Now, 2 weeks later, no online official notice with regard to the Canadians booking with a US TA.

 

Made 2 calls to Carnival this morning, was given 2 different answers.

 

Great advice to contact the Attorney General but does anyone know who I can contact here in Canada?

 

Thanks

 

The Royal Canadian Mounted Attorney General?

[tigervixxxen]

Wow, I can't believe the attitude of most of you on here. I was just asking a question, not trying to make some huge ordeal out of one little question. It wasn't like I'd thought on it for days and days. The thought popped in my head and I posted the topic.

 

Sorry to tell you but this isn't my first time posting on a message board. I looked through the entire first page of this forum before posting my question. Generally on other boards the search function does not work well and its ok if a similar topic is posted as long as there was not a thread about it on the first page. Some people even prefer that to continually bumping up old threads. Plus if there was some sort of great thread on this why don't you link me to it instead of continually giving me condescending answers?

 

I'm not going to sue over $70. I don't think I'm more important than anyone else booked on my cruise. If I spend 60 seconds asking the question and get my money back its not going to set a precedent because none of you bothered to call and ask to get your money back, so how would you know that it was a possibility? I will stop asking you guys for advice. I posted the question in advance of my calling Carnival because I just thought of it tonight. I usually come on these boards to get great advice from great people and it saves me calling Carnival for the 15th time. I'm sorry that I bothered you all and wasted your time with my silly question. All I wanted to know if anyone had asked for the refund and got it. I wasn't looking for people to judge me and get hypercritical on me.

 

This isn't my first time booking travel or a cruise. I know the industry is geared toward lowering customer service. But I can choose where to spend my vacation dollars. If I feel that Carnival isn't treating me right then I can choose to spend my money somewhere else. I don't believe Carnival has a policy of not caring about customers at all. But if they won't budge on this issue at all, fine. I'll get my $70 back one way or the other. Maybe I won't order as many photos or order less drinks at the bar. Its not something I'm losing sleep over. But I know for sure I won't post any questions here again.

[qprrules]

Someone got a match?

[mjbearit]

This is not CCL or any other line being mean or deceptive or anything else. We live in a time when it is legal to speculate on fuel prices. We live in a time when fuel is used as leverage in diplomatic circles. We all want to get on a big piece of steel and concrete that eats this fuel at an incredible pace and go to far away places. As long as this big hunk of steel and concrete uses this fuel and as long as the world situation continues, prices will continue to fluctuate at an ever increasing pace. I don't think this is a one time thing, I think this is something we are going to see more and more of in our everyday world. Does this mean I am happy about it? No, actually I am one of those who was paid in full, then suddenly owed money again. It still kind of grates on me, but it is understandable if you view it from a third person, dispassionate point of view. The choice is simple, pay or don't cruise. I paid without writing a letter of complaint. Why? Well who do I write it to? Carnaval? The SEC? 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue? Saudi Arabia? It's just another example of the times we live in. No, I'm not happy about it necessarily, but I'll pay it. Does that mean I am willing, as someone eluded to earlier, to settle for poor service? No, not at all. I will adjust the tips if I feel the service is substandard. Will I settle for poor food? No. I'll complain about that as well. This is not even close to the same thing though. Fuel is a commodity with a set price which fluctuates based on world markets. Turning down the bed, fixing and serving a meal, mixing a drink or providing a tour, these are services. Their price is not fixed in the world market. It is fixed by tradition in the form of "suggested" percentages. Now don't get me wrong, I almost always tip at least 20%, but I also do not settle for poor service and when it is received I do make it known to the person in charge locally, the person in charge at the corporate level and the tip I leave reflects the service I receive.

This surcharge isn't about whether Carnival cares about you or not either. They could easily decide not to hit each cabin with a surcharge, but then who decides what gets cut in order to maintain the same level of profitability on each cruise? Should we leave off a few lifeboats? Maybe quit buying quality meats and go with cheaper stuff? How about if we just forgo all entertainment, they can all watch tv!

How many of the people who are complaining have a retirement or second income? How is it invested? Most likely (even if you are unaware because your broker handles everything) your retirement or extra income or whatever is tied to the stock market, and maybe some of you even own stock in Carnival without knowing it. Don't the owners and stockholders of each company expect....no, demand that a certain level of profitability be maintained? I know these ships don't use the same gas I put in my car, but the prices for the gas I use has been going up for quite some number of years. They just now instituted a surcharge to maintain their profitability without sacraficing the level of safety or enjoyment of their cruises. Those of you that have been cruising for awhile, I think you've been getting a deal in recent years. Those who are complaining, all you see if $70.00. Get over it. Each vacation I take by car get's more expensive too! I haven't gotten a break from the gas stations, my prices have been going up steadily for years. But I still find a way to pay it and still have a good time. So maybe I cut back in a few other areas. Maybe we take the ice chest and eat a few meals on our own instead of in restaurants. Maybe on a cruise you will have to do one less thing in one port to save that $70.00. Is that rteally such a terrible thing? Is that really going to ruin your vacation? For your sake I hope not, because I intend to enjoy the heck out of myself! I might just have to come home with a few less souveniers, or spend less time in the casino (okay, bad example, I'm not a gambler!). But at the end of the wait, I get to get on this big, hunk of steel and concrete and sail off into the ocean and leave my job, and all the rest of my stresses behind for 9 whole days! The last thing I am going to let stand in my way is the state of fuel prices, that's just one more part of the mundane work-a-day world I will leave behind for a week!

[tigervixxxen]

The point is that next time I can choose to take a vacation where I know I won't be hit up with extra surcharges. I can have my flight and hotel reservations made 6-9 months out and know how much everything is going to cost. I'm not complaining about Carnival raising prices, thats their right to do so. Its the fact of doing after I made a reservation and paid my money. They should have had the proper prices out when I made my reservation or increased the prices even more for the people who have not yet made a reservation. There are ways for Carnival to get their money, I just don't agree with the way its been done. Sometimes the people that complain do get taken care of more than the ones that don't. But if more people don't take the effort to voice their opinions then they will never know.

 

By the way, I used the search function and didn't come up with much. Just a couple threads asking if everyone got hit up with surcharge letters. Nothing that asked if anyone had asked and gotten out of them.

[jaxon41]

Please don't think we are not doing anything.

 

I feel like I am flogging a dead horse on this matter.

 

We are Canadians booked with a US TA prior to Nov 7. We have to pay because we took our business to the US.

 

Calls to Carnival reps get you a different answer every time.

 

2 weeks ago I had a conference call with my TA and a supervisor at Carnival. Supervisor said they are waiting for the legal contract to be completed then it's "official" policy will be posted online. Due any day now he said. Still nothing.

Explained the frustration of speaking with Carnival staff and getting different answers, if they don't know the answer how are we supposed to know it. Said he'd look into it.

 

Now, 2 weeks later, no online official notice with regard to the Canadians booking with a US TA.

 

Made 2 calls to Carnival this morning, was given 2 different answers.

 

Great advice to contact the Attorney General but does anyone know who I can contact here in Canada?

 

Thanks

 

Yes, the problem of Canadians booking with US TA's seems to be ticklish. The way I understand it by reading posts regarding the Canadians, is that the provencial laws were written to protect Canadians from unscrupulous Canadian TA's -- so they may not apply to a Candian booked with a US TA. However, Carnival is based in Florida, and was a signator to the 1997 settlement with the Fl AG which disallowed (there are some fine points, however) raising the advertised price. That would indicate that a complaint filed with the Fl AG would be appropriate in your case, too. You may not be a citizen of the US, but you are a consumer of a product based here.

 

I do not know enough about Canadian government, but perhaps some analogies would be helpful. My guess is that your provinces are organized like our states, with a legislature, and representatives from your particular area to that legislature, and an enforcer of your provencial laws, as we have an enforcer of our state laws, the Attorney General of our respective states. If you call your representative to your provencial assembly, s/he could tell you who the law enforcer is for your provence, the equivalent to our Attorney General. I do not know if such an equivalent is charged as ours are, to take on cases in consumer fraud on behalf of the people.

 

Do you know that RCI has waived the surcharge for all those Canadians booked before the implementation date? I think that augers well for your case.

[jaxon41]

This is not CCL or any other line being mean or deceptive or anything else. We live in a time when it is legal to speculate on fuel prices. We live in a time when fuel is used as leverage in diplomatic circles. We all want to get on a big piece of steel and concrete that eats this fuel at an incredible pace and go to far away places. As long as this big hunk of steel and concrete uses this fuel and as long as the world situation continues, prices will continue to fluctuate at an ever increasing pace. I don't think this is a one time thing, I think this is something we are going to see more and more of in our everyday world. Does this mean I am happy about it? No, actually I am one of those who was paid in full, then suddenly owed money again. It still kind of grates on me, but it is understandable if you view it from a third person, dispassionate point of view. The choice is simple, pay or don't cruise. I paid without writing a letter of complaint. Why? Well who do I write it to? Carnaval? The SEC? 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue? Saudi Arabia? It's just another example of the times we live in. No, I'm not happy about it necessarily, but I'll pay it. Does that mean I am willing, as someone eluded to earlier, to settle for poor service? No, not at all. I will adjust the tips if I feel the service is substandard. Will I settle for poor food? No. I'll complain about that as well. This is not even close to the same thing though. Fuel is a commodity with a set price which fluctuates based on world markets. Turning down the bed, fixing and serving a meal, mixing a drink or providing a tour, these are services. Their price is not fixed in the world market. It is fixed by tradition in the form of "suggested" percentages. Now don't get me wrong, I almost always tip at least 20%, but I also do not settle for poor service and when it is received I do make it known to the person in charge locally, the person in charge at the corporate level and the tip I leave reflects the service I receive.

This surcharge isn't about whether Carnival cares about you or not either. They could easily decide not to hit each cabin with a surcharge, but then who decides what gets cut in order to maintain the same level of profitability on each cruise? Should we leave off a few lifeboats? Maybe quit buying quality meats and go with cheaper stuff? How about if we just forgo all entertainment, they can all watch tv!

How many of the people who are complaining have a retirement or second income? How is it invested? Most likely (even if you are unaware because your broker handles everything) your retirement or extra income or whatever is tied to the stock market, and maybe some of you even own stock in Carnival without knowing it. Don't the owners and stockholders of each company expect....no, demand that a certain level of profitability be maintained? I know these ships don't use the same gas I put in my car, but the prices for the gas I use has been going up for quite some number of years. They just now instituted a surcharge to maintain their profitability without sacraficing the level of safety or enjoyment of their cruises. Those of you that have been cruising for awhile, I think you've been getting a deal in recent years. Those who are complaining, all you see if $70.00. Get over it. Each vacation I take by car get's more expensive too! I haven't gotten a break from the gas stations, my prices have been going up steadily for years. But I still find a way to pay it and still have a good time. So maybe I cut back in a few other areas. Maybe we take the ice chest and eat a few meals on our own instead of in restaurants. Maybe on a cruise you will have to do one less thing in one port to save that $70.00. Is that rteally such a terrible thing? Is that really going to ruin your vacation? For your sake I hope not, because I intend to enjoy the heck out of myself! I might just have to come home with a few less souveniers, or spend less time in the casino (okay, bad example, I'm not a gambler!). But at the end of the wait, I get to get on this big, hunk of steel and concrete and sail off into the ocean and leave my job, and all the rest of my stresses behind for 9 whole days! The last thing I am going to let stand in my way is the state of fuel prices, that's just one more part of the mundane work-a-day world I will leave behind for a week!

 

Not to be snarky, but what does any of this have to do with contract law?

[jaxon41]

The point is that next time I can choose to take a vacation where I know I won't be hit up with extra surcharges. I can have my flight and hotel reservations made 6-9 months out and know how much everything is going to cost. I'm not complaining about Carnival raising prices, thats their right to do so. Its the fact of doing after I made a reservation and paid my money. They should have had the proper prices out when I made my reservation or increased the prices even more for the people who have not yet made a reservation. There are ways for Carnival to get their money, I just don't agree with the way its been done. Sometimes the people that complain do get taken care of more than the ones that don't. But if more people don't take the effort to voice their opinions then they will never know.

 

By the way, I used the search function and didn't come up with much. Just a couple threads asking if everyone got hit up with surcharge letters. Nothing that asked if anyone had asked and gotten out of them.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=657632&page=52&highlight=fuel+surcharge

 

post #1023 by IN2Why may be of interest. Like other threads on the subject on the other lines, the one with the most posts, the ones which were early, often include the best information. On the mega thread at RCI (over 2,000 posts), people post who they have written, what they have heard, etc. and have put up with and waded through numerous posts by naysayers.

[jessemon]

I keep thinking about this $70 I'm being charged for the "fuel surcharge" and was wondering if any of you have gotten out of it? Does it work to complain to your TA or a Carnival rep? I understand about prices going up but I booked over 6 months ago and in my book locking in a price means locking in a price. I have not paid my final payment so technically I could cancel the cruise and get all my money back. So they should be willing to deal with me, right? Just wondering what all your thoughts are and if any of you had any luck in fighting the charge?

If you go to Carnivals website and at the bottom of the home page click on the legal notices" then click on "Contract terms and conditions. Then look at the first part #1 and paragraph (d) you will see they can impose a surcharge at any time. Without notification. This has happened in the past and will happen again in the future. They were polite enough to give all of us that are booked the option of canceling with no penalty. They will refund all money paid.

[jaxon41]

If you go to Carnivals website and at the bottom of the home page click on the legal notices" then click on "Contract terms and conditions. Then look at the first part #1 and paragraph (d) you will see they can impose a surcharge at any time. Without notification. This has happened in the past and will happen again in the future. They were polite enough to give all of us that are booked the option of canceling with no penalty. They will refund all money paid.

 

(d) This ticket is valid only for the person(s) named hereon as Guests and cannot be transferred or modified without Carnival’s written consent. The acceptance or use of this ticket by the person(s) named hereon as Guests shall be deemed acceptance and agreement by each of them to all of the terms and conditions of this Passage Contract

 

HMMM -- I undertstand that this was paragraph d under #1 prior to the implementation date. No one is arguing that they can't impose the surcharge PROSPECTIVELY.

[jessemon]

(d) This ticket is valid only for the person(s) named hereon as Guests and cannot be transferred or modified without Carnival’s written consent. The acceptance or use of this ticket by the person(s) named hereon as Guests shall be deemed acceptance and agreement by each of them to all of the terms and conditions of this Passage Contract

 

HMMM -- I undertstand that this was paragraph d under #1 prior to the implementation date. No one is arguing that they can't impose the surcharge PROSPECTIVELY.

I am not arguing that either. The OP wants to debate it with the cruiseline. This is the cruiselines stance and will stick by it.

And yes...that is on the old contract in that spot. It used to be in paragraph ©.

I have paid mine for my next cruise...

[GottaLuvCruising]

To the OP:

 

If you want to go on the cruise, I would advise paying the $70.

 

Then, write your your state's attorney general as well as Florida's. This will take a long time to resolve. But Carnival obviously did not research the retroactive application of this cruise fare increase (regardless of what they call it) since they have already had to reverse it from most Canadian bookings.

 

In my opinion, shared by many other thinking people, it is simply wrong to apply this "surcharge" to confirmed bookings. We'll just have to wait and see how it is resolved. I don't give a rodent's backside that some folks fail to see the injustice...

[LADYBUG34113]

I am so sick of this subject! There are numerous threads on this already. I am going on my 2nd cruise in April and ready to book another April 09. It is not going to stop us from having a fantastic vacation.

[GottaLuvCruising]

I am so sick of this subject! There are numerous threads on this already. I am going on my 2nd cruise in April and ready to book another April 09. It is not going to stop us from having a fantastic vacation.

 

Then WHY for God's sake are you reading and responding to this thread? Do something or pay attention to something that does interest you? Does someone have a gun to your head forcing you to participate here???? Call 911

[marty30907]

I was upset about the surcharge at first. We booked the Carnival Freedom almost two years out to lock our rate. When we received our letter about the $70 fuel surcharge, I called my PVP. She explained it to me. Here on CC boards, I see that every cruise line is doing the same thing.

 

If you order a pizza, you get charged a $1.50 fuel charge. Same story with anything these days that is delivered. If anyone is to blame, blame our government for not allowing drilling where we know there is oil.

 

We also paid $70 extra for our Carnival Triumph cruise. We will be waited on hand and foot, good food, entertained, no house work, no cooking, and do just what we want to do. For an extra $70, it is worth it.

[GottaLuvCruising]

One more thing...

 

I included two cruise confirmations in my letter to Florida's Attorney General. Both bookings were paid-in-full prior to Carnival's "fuel surcharge" (retroactive cruise fare increase).

 

Neither confirmation (dated 9/5 and 10/11) has a line item for fuel surcharge. Both have many lines with zero dollar values:

 

Add-on Amount

Credit/Coupon

Tour Package

Transfers

Administration Fees

Deviation Fees

Airport Fees

 

But there is no line for a "fuel surcharge". And the balance due is "$0.00".

 

Maybe the confirmation will make a point, maybe not. But it makes sense to include it with the letter.

 

Jaxon41 - input?

[cathyoo]

If you order a pizza, you get charged a $1.50 fuel charge. Same story with anything these days that is delivered. If anyone is to blame, blame our government for not allowing drilling where we know there is oil.

 

.

 

there is no fuel charge on my pizza delivery. If my pizza place advertised free delivery and when it got to my front door they wanted an additional 1.50 I'd be sending my pizza back. What about your mortgage company? I'm sure they pay extra for the fuel that heats their offices. If they tacked a buck on to your mortgage payment each month would that be fine, also? If it cost more for fuel, supplies, wages, repairs, etc that should become a part of the overall cost. If a company (cruiseline or other) does not forecast their expenses correctly they lose money. That's how it works.

 

I have no problem paying a fuel charge on my NEXT cruise. But not one that I already booked and paid for..

[arizdback]

 

If you order a pizza, you get charged a $1.50 fuel charge.

This analogy makes zero sense. I don't order pizza and pay with my credit card on the phone and then the pizza guy shows up and tells me he needs a couple bucks for gas.

 

We also paid $70 extra for our Carnival Triumph cruise. We will be waited on hand and foot, good food, entertained, no house work, no cooking, and do just what we want to do. For an extra $70, it is worth it.

 

But is it worth $100, $200, $3000!? What is your limit? You must have one ... or perhaps not. If you have no price than I've got a deal for you. I can get you an inside cabin on the Valor for 7 days at $3500 per person. I will guarantee you will be waited on hand and foot, good food, entertained, no house work, no cooking, and do just what we want to do. Just send me your preferred date and a check and I'll do all the work for you. Better yet, just leave the check blank and I'll fill it in once I figure my costs. :D

[GottaLuvCruising]

If it cost more for fuel, supplies, wages, repairs, etc that should become a part of the overall cost. If a company (cruiseline or other) does not forecast their expenses correctly they lose money. That's how it works.

 

I have no problem paying a fuel charge on my NEXT cruise. But not one that I already booked and paid for..

 

I agree 100%. Some folks just don't get it.

[marty30907]

there is no fuel charge on my pizza delivery. If my pizza place advertised free delivery and when it got to my front door they wanted an additional 1.50 I'd be sending my pizza back.

 

I do not know about PA, but here in GA, all the pizza delivery places charge $1.50. Another company that delivers food at our place of work charges each customer a $1.00 fuel charge. I can only say what is happening here in Augusta, GA.

[cathyoo]

I do not know about PA, but here in GA, all the pizza delivery places charge $1.50. Another company that delivers food at our place of work charges each customer a $1.00 fuel charge. I can only say what is happening here in Augusta, GA.

 

 

So if they deliver for 5 customers they collect $5 and if they deliver for 20 they collect $20 for the same delivery?

 

In Philadelphia at least we still have plenty of places that do free delivery. I guess there is too much competition. Not saying they haven't raised prices but there is still free delivery.

[KRUISE KING]

Maybe $70 is not a lot to you guys but it is a lot to me.

 

I agree To some people it can make or break a cruise. This whole thing should have been done differently if you had already booked and paid you should have not been charged the fee If we don't say anything about it we will start getting surcharged for everything