QV world cruise - another first for Cunard?

[RobertGraves]

Hello Cunard friends,

 

As the Queen Victoria embarks on her maiden world cruise, I was thinking about the types of passenger vessels that have circumnavigated the globe on pleasant cruises.

 

Our beloved QM2 is of course the largest passenger liner to have ever performed a full world circumnavigation. But I think the Queen Victoria is the first Vista/Spirit class to venture it. And at 90,000 tons, I think also she is the second largest, after the Queen Mary 2, to have ever done it.

 

For example, Holland America's Amsterdam and Rotterdam, or P&O's Oriana and Aurora, vessels with full world cruises in their itineraries, are all smaller than the QV. Even the venerable and recently much lamented SS France was smaller than her.

 

Am I right in thinking this? Is there among us a 'maritime historian' to confirm it? :confused: If so, Cunard has with the Queen Victoria another first after the QM2.:)

[guernseyguy]

Yes, she is the second largest passenger ship to circumnavigate the globe. In any case if any of the Vistas had tried it (they haven't) she's still the largest Vista clone.

[RobertGraves]

Cunard can be proud. Even under the Carnival empire umbrella (or, to be honest, exactly because of it), it continues to write maritime history.

 

It is somehow interesting to see if the Queen Victoria will lose the title of the second largest passenger ship to have ever circumnavigated the world, by the new Queen Elizabeth. The latter is planned to be a couple of thousands of tons larger than her, if I am correct.

 

It will be nice if the QE undertakes that task, reminding of her 'namesake' QE2. :)

 

At any case, Cunard ships will most likely monopolize in the near future the titles of the largest ships afloat to be employed in world cruises. The only other possible rival could perhaps come from P&O's Ventura. But it seems rather unlikely that P&O will use her in a world cruise...

[guernseyguy]

The only other possible rival could perhaps come from P&O's Ventura. But it seems rather unlikely that P&O will use her in a world cruise...

 

No 'Grand Class' or derivative has ever done a world cruise - most world cruisers are substantially smaller than QV or QM2. There is a good summary of 2009 World Cruises by the artist formerly known as Host Doug:

 

http://www.cruisecritic.co.uk/features/articles.cfm?ID=514

 

Peter

[PRINSENDAM]

QM2 and QV might well be the largest passenger ships making the work cruise, personally I would never give the slightest consideraton to making a world cruise in any large ship or in any ship carrying 2,000 + passengers. Far too many people for the atmosphere one would hope to enjoy on a long cruise. Bigger does not mean better. Best ships for a world cruise were ships like the old ROTTERDAM with about 900 pax, or SAGAFJORD with 500. SAGA ROSE is making her world cruise this year with 350 min, 400 max. Perfect. Boarding in Sydney one month from today!

 

Stephen

[PRINSENDAM]

Yes, she is the second largest passenger ship to circumnavigate the globe. In any case if any of the Vistas had tried it (they haven't) she's still the largest Vista clone.

 

 

I'm fairly certain that HAL would never send a Vista on a world cruise. They were not built with that kind of extended cruising in mind. They are 7 to 14 day boats. ZUIDERDAM is coming to Australia in 2009 for a summer season down here. LA to Auckland is usually a 28 day cruise. That is definitely the limit for those ship. Lack of storage space for provisions and stores... and only four drawers in the cabins!

 

Stephen

[RobertGraves]

QM2 and QV might well be the largest passenger ships making the work cruise, personally I would never give the slightest consideraton to making a world cruise in any large ship or in any ship carrying 2,000 + passengers. Far too many people for the atmosphere one would hope to enjoy on a long cruise. Bigger does not mean better. Best ships for a world cruise were ships like the old ROTTERDAM with about 900 pax, or SAGAFJORD with 500. SAGA ROSE is making her world cruise this year with 350 min, 400 max. Perfect. Boarding in Sydney one month from today!

 

Stephen

 

Stephen,

 

Far from having your experience and knowledge, I can only agree with you about the atmosphere of a smaller vessel, especially on a long cruise. However, I would like to point out that I have never felt cramped on board the QUEEN MARY 2. On the contrary, I was pleasantly surprised finding myself trying to discover where those 2,600 people were. Let us remember that her passenger/space ratio is 57, much more than the 43 of the Vistas, for example - please correct me if I'm wrong- (I suppose she is the most spacious ship afloat).

 

Certainly bigger is not always better. But bigger has also its own graces, and travelling under the unique high ceilings of the QM2 on a long cruise does compensate me a bit for the loss of intimacy. ;)

 

PS 1: Oh, the old ROTTERDAM! Put within the context of her time, it represented a perfect combination of size and atmosphere. If only I could have travelled on her...

 

PS 2: 'Bon voyage' for your next month cruise!

[RAL72]

Interesting... where did QE2 stand on the scale, before QV arrived?

[RobertGraves]

I'm fairly certain that HAL would never send a Vista on a world cruise. They were not built with that kind of extended cruising in mind. They are 7 to 14 day boats. ZUIDERDAM is coming to Australia in 2009 for a summer season down here. LA to Auckland is usually a 28 day cruise. That is definitely the limit for those ship. Lack of storage space for provisions and stores... and only four drawers in the cabins!

 

Stephen

 

Of course this is the Cunard forum, but I can only recall how generously and wisely fitted were the cabins on board the present ROTTERDAM. Plenty of storage space, full bathtube, flat screen TV, and generally such an attention to detail. From this point of view, it is only natural that Holland America sends her and her near sister AMSTERDAM on world cruises.

 

On the other hand, I have not especially great demands from my cabin. I think the QM2 or the Queen Victoria will be rather fine for me for the world circumnavigation I'm planning to have in the near future. Only those sheltered balconies scare me a bit...:)

[guernseyguy]

Interesting... where did QE2 stand on the scale, before QV arrived?

 

Number 2 - behind AURORA (76,000 tonnes) but ahead of ORIANA (69,000 tonnes). In 2008 the other World Cruisers are:

• Crystal Serenity (68,800)
  
• Amsterdam (61,000)
  
• Seven Seas Voyager (46,000)
  
• Pacific Princess (30,000)
  
• Black Watch (28,600)
  
• Europa (28,000)
  
• Silver Shadow (28,000)
  
• Saga Rose (24,000)
  
• Columbus (15,000)

So when QM2 & QV set sail together in 2009 - assuming the same ships sail as in 2008 - with a combined tonnage of 240,000 tonnes they will represent a third of the world cruise total.....

[exlondoner]

Stephen,

 

Far from having your experience and knowledge, I can only agree with you about the atmosphere of a smaller vessel, especially on a long cruise. However, I would like to point out that I have never felt cramped on board the QUEEN MARY 2. On the contrary, I was pleasantly surprised finding myself trying to discover where those 2,600 people were. Let us remember that her passenger/space ratio is 57, much more than the 43 of the Vistas, for example - please correct me if I'm wrong- (I suppose she is the most spacious ship afloat).

 

Yes, I too was completely mystified where all those people had gone.:confused:

 

The only room that ever seemed crowded was the wonderful library, inspite of its impressive size.

 

Jane

[PRINSENDAM]

Stephen,

 

Far from having your experience and knowledge, I can only agree with you about the atmosphere of a smaller vessel, especially on a long cruise. However, I would like to point out that I have never felt cramped on board the QUEEN MARY 2. On the contrary, I was pleasantly surprised finding myself trying to discover where those 2,600 people were. Let us remember that her passenger/space ratio is 57, much more than the 43 of the Vistas, for example - please correct me if I'm wrong- (I suppose she is the most spacious ship afloat).

 

Certainly bigger is not always better. But bigger has also its own graces, and travelling under the unique high ceilings of the QM2 on a long cruise does compensate me a bit for the loss of intimacy. ;)

 

PS 1: Oh, the old ROTTERDAM! Put within the context of her time, it represented a perfect combination of size and atmosphere. If only I could have travelled on her...

 

PS 2: 'Bon voyage' for your next month cruise!

 

 

 

 

Robert,

 

I wasn't thinking about overcrowding so much as the QM2 is perfectly suited for that number of passengers. If you put 3,000 or 4,000 into the same space as some of the otherscruise lines do then you would definitely have a serious problem. :eek:

 

I'm think more of what it means when say, you arrive back at the ship just before sailing and you have find 1,500 standing in line waiting to get up the gangway or waiting to board a tender. Smaller numbers mean that everyone gets to know each other.... sometimes good, sometimes bad! Smaller numbers means being able to say hello to the Cruise Director each morning. Smaller numbers means getting to know Lido waiters as well as you get to know your waiter in the dining room.

 

I enjoy being in a smaller vessel. The physical size means that you can get from one end to the other in a minute or two at the most.... deck to cabin... bar to cabin... after deck to forward lounge, upper deck to dining room. If you were in G32 nightclub would your wife consider walking back to your cabin on the forward end of Deck 10 just to use the loo? :o These thing don't matter so much on a short voyage but on a world cruise I think it would wear thin rather quickly.

 

Think what it must have been like on Cunard's CARONIA, the 1949 ship? 34,000 tons.... 900 passengers on the Atlantic run but only 560 on cruises. Magnificent!

 

As for the old ROTTERDAM.... well, she is a favourite. I cruised in her a total of 340 days between 1993 and 1997, making the world cruise in 1995 with an added Christmas cruise making 118 days. And the perfect ending was leaving the ship in Lauderdale and next day sailing in QE2 from there to Bermuda to get home! No problems with the nine pieces of baggage!

 

At the end of the day it comes down to choice... big ship, small ship... as long as it is a good ship!

 

Stephen

[PRINSENDAM]

Of course this is the Cunard forum, but I can only recall how generously and wisely fitted were the cabins on board the present ROTTERDAM. Plenty of storage space, full bathtube, flat screen TV, and generally such an attention to detail. From this point of view, it is only natural that Holland America sends her and her near sister AMSTERDAM on world cruises.

 

...

 

 

Robert,

 

Yes, HAL's flagship class are well suited for world cruising. The cabin those are virtually identical to those on the smaller STATENDAM class. The problem with the S class was their relatively low cruising speed. The ROTTERDAM and AMSTERDAM are capable of 25 knots. Makes things much easier when trying to keep to schedule.

 

SAGA ROSE... once a 22 knot ship usually putters around at about 18. It saves wear and tear on her now 43 year-old diesels! No matter, she still makes the schedule. Last year we broke down for six days in Port Kelang. Managed to get back most of the ports.... missing just one and by the time we got to Suez, were back on schedule.

 

Stephen

[RobertGraves]

I'm think more of what it means when say, you arrive back at the ship just before sailing and you have find 1,500 standing in line waiting to get up the gangway or waiting to board a tender. Smaller numbers mean that everyone gets to know each other.... sometimes good, sometimes bad! Smaller numbers means being able to say hello to the Cruise Director each morning. Smaller numbers means getting to know Lido waiters as well as you get to know your waiter in the dining room.

 

I enjoy being in a smaller vessel. The physical size means that you can get from one end to the other in a minute or two at the most.... deck to cabin... bar to cabin... after deck to forward lounge, upper deck to dining room. If you were in G32 nightclub would your wife consider walking back to your cabin on the forward end of Deck 10 just to use the loo? :o These thing don't matter so much on a short voyage but on a world cruise I think it would wear thin rather quickly.

 

Think what it must have been like on Cunard's CARONIA, the 1949 ship? 34,000 tons.... 900 passengers on the Atlantic run but only 560 on cruises. Magnificent!

 

At the end of the day it comes down to choice... big ship, small ship... as long as it is a good ship!

 

Stephen

 

Stephen,

 

All these reasons regarding the superiority in a world cruise of a little versus a giant vessel are thoughtful and true. Besides, the fact that all truly luxurious ships today remain of a relatively small size, is certainly revealing...Their tonnage is usually like that of the CARONIA.

 

Interestingly, 1949 CARONIA, just like the 1959 ROTTERDAM, combined perfectly both size and intimacy, due to the wider maritime context of their time. I remember reading an exhaustive list of the largest passenger ships in the world, written in the late 50s. Anything more than 30,000 tons was considered 'giant'.:) And this lasted more or less until the early 80s. So, traveling on either CARONIA or ROTTERDAM would give you the special feeling of being aboard a big ship, while enjoying almost all of the pros you have given to a smaller liner. Alas, why I wasn't born then...:)

 

And ships then had distinct personalities. Almost all were 'One and Only', not homogenized brotherhoods of four or more. This is one reason why I tend always to be favourably disposed towards the QM2. Mr Arison has declared that she will have no second copy. And I have the feeling that she has the potential to acquire in the future some kind of personality, if this word means something in our days...

 

This, combined with the fact that the QM2 is especially designed to face the North Atlantic whims, and is represented as a heir to the old ocean liners (as a shiplover I consciously, even if foolishly, allow myself to tacitly accept this 'propaganda') prompt me to prefer her for a future world circumnavigation, despite her huge size. But we shall see...

[RobertGraves]

Robert,

 

Yes, HAL's flagship class are well suited for world cruising. The cabin those are virtually identical to those on the smaller STATENDAM class. The problem with the S class was their relatively low cruising speed. The ROTTERDAM and AMSTERDAM are capable of 25 knots. Makes things much easier when trying to keep to schedule.

 

SAGA ROSE... once a 22 knot ship usually putters around at about 18. It saves wear and tear on her now 43 year-old diesels! No matter, she still makes the schedule. Last year we broke down for six days in Port Kelang. Managed to get back most of the ports.... missing just one and by the time we got to Suez, were back on schedule.

 

Stephen

 

Indeed, almost any cabin of the S- or the R- class ships would offer a perfect world cruise. Our standard outside category cabin testifies it. And, to tell you the truth, I would not mind at all to travel on an S- class ship despite their lower speed. I cruise first to experience the ship. A few ports of call less do not matter for me.

 

Holland America was for me a most pleasant surprise. It is a rare instance when a motto comes virtually true: 'A tradition of excellence' indeed. Attention to detail. Excellent organization. Excellent ship and cabin layout. And beyond. The most friendly and prompt crew I have ever seen.

 

By the way, I passed a lot of time at the staircases, rejoicing at the special atmosphere of the paintings of older HAL ships, made by a certain maritime artist...;)

 

As to SAGA ROSE, I know that she is one of the kind jewel, and I am so glad that the old -FJORD continues to do it well in her 40s...

[PRINSENDAM]

Stephen,

 

All these reasons regarding the superiority in a world cruise of a little versus a giant vessel are thoughtful and true. Besides, the fact that all truly luxurious ships today remain of a relatively small size, is certainly revealing...Their tonnage is usually like that of the CARONIA.

 

Interestingly, 1949 CARONIA, just like the 1959 ROTTERDAM, combined perfectly both size and intimacy, due to the wider maritime context of their time. I remember reading an exhaustive list of the largest passenger ships in the world, written in the late 50s. Anything more than 30,000 tons was considered 'giant'.:) And this lasted more or less until the early 80s. So, traveling on either CARONIA or ROTTERDAM would give you the special feeling of being aboard a big ship, while enjoying almost all of the pros you have given to a smaller liner. Alas, why I wasn't born then...:)

 

And ships then had distinct personalities. Almost all were 'One and Only', not homogenized brotherhoods of four or more. This is one reason why I tend always to be favourably disposed towards the QM2. Mr Arison has declared that she will have no second copy. And I have the feeling that she has the potential to acquire in the future some kind of personality, if this word means something in our days...

 

This, combined with the fact that the QM2 is especially designed to face the North Atlantic whims, and is represented as a heir to the old ocean liners (as a shiplover I consciously, even if foolishly, allow myself to tacitly accept this 'propaganda') prompt me to prefer her for a future world circumnavigation, despite her huge size. But we shall see...

 

 

 

Robert,

 

You are spot on with your feelings that to make a world cruise one should sail in a special ship and one with personality. I agree that QM2 certainly fits the bill in that regard.

 

Looking back at some of the great ships that made world cruises, most of them were transatlantic liners. Perhaps it is true... liners make the best cruise ships. Not the other way around!!!!

 

Stephen

[bob brown]

Yes, she is the second largest passenger ship to circumnavigate the globe. In any case if any of the Vistas had tried it (they haven't) she's still the largest Vista clone.

And of course the QV is the largest to ever circumnavigate the globe via the Panama Canal........perhaps when the new locks are in service, the QM2 will take that title.